Deseret News | Partnership registry proposed

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Partnership registry proposed

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WC | 2:50 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

OOO I'm EVIL and GAY! I'm here to steal your children and molest them. I'm here to destroy America. It will fall to bits just like that horrible Massachusetts and Vermont...the sky is falling.

This is horrible | 2:56 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I'm so angry that militant homosexuals are forcing their agenda down our throats again!!!

Brigham Young is rolling over in his grave!!! He understood that marriage is only between one man and one woman!

To Waterfallhiker | 2:57 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Do not try to justify this issue by using the Bible. God said it's not good for man to be alone so he created a WOMAN to accompany his so they could MULTIPLY and REPLENISH the earth (I'm not sure if you're aware of this tiny detail, but it's not possible to do this with 2 men or 2 women).

Comments continue below

John | 3:00 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I have more than a few gay friends, and none of them have a gay agenda, because there is no gay agenda.

And I didn't and don't choose to be heterosexual--I AM heterosexual. Gays do not choose their orientation any more than I do.

Live and let live, people. Better yet, love one another.

Wondering | 3:21 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

For those of you that claim homosexuality is a choice, I only have one question: did you try it? It isn't a choice. Just as one day you don't decide to be heterosexual you also do not, for the most part, wake up one day and say today I will switch to a different team. If God thought homosexuality was so bad, He wouldn't have made so many of his creatures act in a natural and homosexual manner.

Emma | 3:22 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Legal Polygamy is next...will the Church then be inspired to return back to Celestial Marriage as defined by Brigham Young and Joseph Smith?

ROMANS 1 | 3:32 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

TO: Waterfallhiker

How about you read Romans Chapter 1. I think you will find it very clearly stating. I'll quote it for you.

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. "

LogicalSong | 3:32 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I've seen a lot of stupidity in DN comments, but the anti-gay arguments take the cake. How in god's name does gay people making commitments to one another destroy Utah's traditional marriages??? They do not. Why make a scapegoat of homosexuality when bemoaning the "breakdown of the family?" Shouldn't you be trying to make adultery and the bearing of children by unwed mothers illegal instead of hounding gay people? Those seem like a much greater threat to the "god-ordained traditional family" than does recognition of gay people's decision to commit to one another. You guys are amazing!

abc | 3:49 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I don't buy into the argument that if you are born a certain way that that can mean that you have the freedom to act anyway that you want. We don't let sexual molesters who say they are born that way to walk our streets nor alcoholics, drug addicts, thiefs, etc...and religion has nothing to do with this argument. The "I was born this way" epidemic has created a drain on our system in the amount of tax money we must give in their counseling, jail sentences, such is homosexuality. Granted many gay men have lived productive lives (although short-lived)in their chosen professions, but their illnesses that they have brought on themselves has caused my tax dollars to be used for a disease that is 100% curable through abstinence. Those who should get AIDS treatment are the innocent victims such as women and children.

The good book | 3:52 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

The good book does say love your neighbor, however it doesn't say you have to accept their behavior.

Choice vs Born that way | 3:53 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

This is a stupid argument. Re: Choice- Why would someone choose to be gay? What, they wake up one morning and just decide that they are gay? What's the motivation there? Re: Born that way- So are you saying it's genetic? How exactly are those genes supposed to be passed on? Doesn't the gay lifestyle preclude genes from passing to the next generation? Wouldn't that have been bred out of the human species millions of years ago because there would be no children? I think it's called natural selection.

Since we define sexuality in terms of demostratable behavior, I would imagine that homosexuality is a learned behavior, as are other paraphilias and porn addiction. Why can't we get over this stupid argument and actually learn to live together without degrading each other or spouting bumper stickers back and forth. Yes, even though it might be considered a sin, aren't the religious supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin? Not seeing much love here. And for gay people wanting people to respect their lifestyle, I haven't heard much repect for people living their religious lifestyle of their choosing. We, as a society, should be better than this.

Leviticus 20:13 | 3:55 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Read it in your own Bible. I doubt God has all of a sudden changed his views on homosexuality.

Regarding gay couple registration, it's not hurting me in any way that gay couples benefit from their gayness. Even w/out this registration, gay couples would still be gay together. Telling them they can't be legal isn't going to make them straight. I guess gay people now run SLC, and they elected the Mayor. How strange that he should do something in return for them...hmmmmmm(riddled w/ sarcasm)!!!

To all my fellow LDS persons, stop caring so much about the actions of others and start reaching out with love, not misunderstanding. Gay people aren't the freaking anti-Christ. God sees homosexuals the same now, WITH gay registration, as he did before.

If you don't agree with the way somebody lives their life, then just try to live a better life yourself and be a good neighbor and things will work themselves out in the end.

Love? | 4:08 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I hear all this talk about love. What does it mean to love someone? Does it mean supporting them in all things?

No. It does not. I can not truly love someone and make it easy for them to hurt themselves. Supporting gay marriage or gay behavior is essential saying " here's some gas and some matches have fun!" I would never give my family member that no matter how badly he/she wants it. Sorry, but just like we thought our parents were unfair to us as children, maybe one day all yall will snap out of it and realize that they are actual right on this also.

Homosexuality is a direct opposition for the fulfillment of man's search for happiness.

Mat | 4:15 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Never understood how this "attacks" the family. I understand not agreeing with the lifestyle... I don't understand it. But how does someone else's lifestyle damage me?

Don't assume | 4:19 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Why is everyone assuming that all of these postings are from Utah Mormons. Mormons aren't the only religion who do not believe in same sex unions. And thanks to modern technology, the Deseret News is available to those of us outside of Utah. I guess Mormons are an easy target?

Kevin | 4:26 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Interesting comments. Civil war is so possible.

Don't Assume | 4:26 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Guess what? Mormons are not the only religion that do not believe in same sex unions. And thanks to modern technology, those of us outside of Utah are able to read the DN. I guess Mormons are an easy target?

Ummmmmmmm.... | 4:30 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

The article states that Becker was open about his goals in regards to this topic right from the begining, and the majority of the people of Salt Lake still voted for him. Then why are you all acting so surprized?? It sounds like he's doing EXACTLY what he said he would.

Also NEWSFLASH!! Rocky Anderson is GONE!! Catch up people! Stop your whining about what he did!! He's out of office so put your Rocky Anderson angst away with your green Jell-O Olympic pins and move on!

And as far as Prophets go, didn't Brigham Young state that the people living on the moon all looked like Quakers, and didn't he also say that any member of the church who wasn't married by the age of 23 was a burden to society? Seems to me that even prophets of God miss the mark once in a while.

Congratulations Mayor B. | 4:39 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Thanks for being so courageous! Thanks for being FAIR!

Thanks for standing up for your principles! Makes me proud to be from Utah, and I was so afraid I'd just have to leave.

After experiencing all these intolerant "my way, or the highway" attitudes, it's really refreshing to be lead by someone who cares. Way to go Mayor Becker!!!

(And I'm not even gay!)

COURAGE | 4:43 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

This great country and it's great cities were forged by courageous people who stood up for the values and mores of our society. Even in the face of "noisy" special interests who would detract from basic tenets. I am just naive enough to believe that our country (and hopefully our state) still are composed of a moral majority. Even though it's voice is not always heard by politicians.

Becker did not show courage.

Jackson | 4:50 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I love that everyone is saying, "What's next? Polygamy!" No guys...that is in the past, and it was your church that made it legal and fought for it in Utah. Don't act so confused how anything that isn't a man and a woman could be...because your ancestors and your church have hardly been a beacon for the one man, one woman argument over the last 200 years.

To: ENOUGH!!!! | 9:45 a.m. | 4:53 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Take the counterfeiting US currency.

When someone counterfeits $100 bills and puts them into the money system by spending them, ASK YOURSELF, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE INTEGRITY OF THE ENTIRE MONETARY SYSTEM IF THERE ARE FAKES AND COUNTERFEITS FLOATING ABOUT THE MONEY SUPPLY?

Govrnmt. has a vested interest in recognizing the relationship of marriage, since the marriages generally produces children (govrnmt. sees children as future wage earners and tax payers).

For anyone who wants to redefine marriage, I'm beyond trying to figure out why you do it, I just want to beat you at the ballot box.

However, I have 3 friends who want to be married together (all of whom are consenting adults) who want to have their love validated by the govrnmt., would disagree with me strongly. The same goes for my friend who wants to marry her horse. Who am I to tell her what she can or can't do, or what love is?

But these friends would never feel or express an hatred for someone that shared my beliefs, because they don't confuse love with acceptance and validation. We are friends, just agree to disagree.

Melva McKenzie | 4:55 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Good moral people will fight this. But, it is prophecy being fulfilled. Brigham Young prophesied
that Salt Lake City would be one of the most wicked cities in the world one day. Looks like it is coming to that.

Blake | 4:57 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

You guys kill me! You keep telling us that SLC is going to get what they deserve, and that we didn't know we were getting another Rocky. Has it occured to any of you that we voted him in because we agree with him? He had a HUGE margin over a well spoken, intelligent Republican. We knew what we were doing and we stand by it. WE aren't shocked or disappointed, we knew what we wanted, we voted that way, and now we have it.

Re: It's a Choice | 5:20 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I don't believe anyone here has said that having same sex attractions is a choice. What most (if not all) have said about choices is that *acting* on those attractions is a choice. You choose what you do with those feelings.

Kevin | 5:22 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

To Choice vs Born that way: Doesn't have to be genetic to be based in biology. Genetics just deals with inheritable traits. However, it could be passed on by bisexuals, or women, who seem to have a broader distribution of sexual orientation, as opposed to men who seem to be one or the other.

U of U biologists published a paper in October 2007 demonstrating how sexual orientation in a type of roundworm can be manipulated by manipulating genes. Easily googled. Much simpler organism, of course.

RE: abc | 5:24 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

First of all, there are so many flaws in your logic it's difficult to know where to begin.

If we use your arguments, then the mere position of having homosexual desires is the same a shooting someone in the head or committing mortgage fraud. Crime, including child molestation, involves an innocent victim who doesn't wish to participate. Same-sex relationships do not.

Nobody ever said one's life companion must be a sexual partner. Lots of LDS "same-gender attracted" people live in sexless marriage-type situations, yet remain temple-worthy under guidelines set forth by church leaders. Those people can benefit under this proposal.

Also: Men and women alike can be "innocent victims" when it comes to contracting the HIV virus. Not all men get the virus from sexual escapades and shooting up drugs. Not all women got it by having philandering, homosexual husbands. NEWS FLASH: Many women have sex and like it, too. Some even do hard drugs, including heroin. And all people make poor judgments in life at some point or another. I don't find any humor or justice in denigrating someone who has a life-threatening disease, whether it's cancer, heart disease or HIV. Why do you?

Jersey Boy | 5:27 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Way to go Ralphy. You are picking up where little Rocky left off. Acting on things that really don't matter, but gets headlines. I am sure glad to be out of SLC. SLC citizens, you got what you wanted and people outside of Utah just laugh at stupid you are.

Forbidden Doughnut | 6:20 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

I don't understand why the goverment is in the marraige business in the first place. Isn't it amazing how the legislature feels that it is their place to say which relationships are legitimate and which are not based on their own narrow-minded definitions.

You Know Who To Blame | 6:30 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

When catastrophe strikes Salt Lake City, Mayor Beckor and his homosexual ilk will be the only ones to blame. Thank you for bringing this upon us.

Lisa | 6:31 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

This is sickening. I can't believe this is happening in our beautiful city of Salt Lake. No, I'm not talking about the partnership registry, I'm talking about the hate and bigotry being spewed. Especially after a week of saying how picked on you feel if you are LDS. Did it occur to you that the evilness you see coming to SLC is this judgemental, self-righteous hatred you are showing? Clean up your own lives before attacking others. Oh, and I'm a heterosexual married woman living in the suburbs. Not everyone out there hates their fellow neighbor, whoever they may be.

michael | 7:19 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

Ralph will be a great mayor. I generally supported Rocky, but thought he was more provocative than necessary and believe Ralph will be much more tactful and effective. I think it is unfortunate how devisive this issue is, but it is probably best to do it now as it is the right thing to do- and put it behind us so we may move forward.
Nearly all the letters to the editor which criticized Rocky were from non-residents of SLC. The fact is that the rest of Utah feels alienated by SLC politics. I live in SLC and feel the same way about Utah politics in general- and the mayor of Salt LAke is about the only politician in the state who really represents me. I choose to live in Utah despite the political climate here- I have learned to live with it and the rest of Utah needs to learn to live with Salt LAke City. But I think we will all get along much better with our new mayor- and he will help to make Salt LAke a much more liveable city- it will continue to become increasingly urban, more bike and hiker friendly and more liberal

Thank you Deseret News!!! | 8:21 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

It's so great that you are allowing this discussion. When I was a Church member I often felt isolated and out of touch with the rest of the world. I knew there must be others who felt my pain and frustration, but no one seemed willing to talk about it. Anyone who wrote remarks that I felt were reputable and realistic ideas on how we were treating gay people seemed to get fired from BYU or excommunicated from the Church.

My own brother was a victim of some very heartless leaders, and he ended up dead, by his own hand.

I'm so very grateful that we finally have a place where we can share ideas and work together for the best solutions, where we can learn from each other, where the best ideas can be expressed and the worst ones exposed. Thank you Deseret News for supporting Free Speech!

(P.S. Hope this doesn't get deleted.)

Wait until it hits home | 10:36 p.m. Jan. 11, 2008

All this talk about how to live your life is great, but what happens when your children do not belive or live the life you belive in? Do you just throw your children out and go to church ( your choice) and thing that it was the right thing to do?
What a choice? Your Church over you child, What would you do?

Lester Leavitt | 7:13 a.m. Jan. 12, 2008

I'm reading a book called "Confronting the Idolatry of Family". The Mormon Church has placed the "traditional" family up on a pedestal like a Golden Calf and in the process have made single mothers, divorced people, childless couples, and unmarried singles over 26 to feel inferior and "less loved" by God himself because of their substandard existence. The "Proclamation on the Family" has been elevated as "Canonized Scripture" and is used more in attacks on others than in defense of the family. You've gone too far, brothers and sisters!

Follow the prophet | 10:08 a.m. Jan. 12, 2008

Basically, we are all imperfect human beings living our lives, and trying to do the best we can with what we have. A Proclamation to the World issued by the LDS Church sets the high standard to strive toward. Of course there are many individual circumstances that fall short of the ideal, but is anyone perfect? Isnï¿½t it better to shoot for the sun and land on the moon, than shoot for the ceiling and land in the basement?

Those who have studied the scriptures should know that the ancient prophets knew what they were talking about (i.e. Noah, Moses, etc.) Right here in our own beautiful, diverse SLC, lives a modern day prophet who has given us just as strong of instruction and warning as those of old. We would be wise to take heed.

Whether you are religious or not, it still applies to you. Please open you hearts and minds. It may be uncomfortable, and hurt, but you will be glad you did. If you choose not to, those of us who do will still help you out when the calamities do come upon us all because we love our neighbors.

Gays have the same rights!!!! | 11:36 a.m. Jan. 12, 2008

A gay man and a straight man have exactly the same rights in the eyes of the law. They can marry the same people, and do exactly the same things. Gays try to legitimize their obnoxious movement by claiming they are denied certain rights, similar to African Americans before the civil rights movement. African Americans actually were denied rights, where gays are not and never have been. Don't fall for the false claim that gays are denied rights, and realize that they want more rights than anyone else. It would be like a group of straight people pushing to marry already married people. GAYS ARE DENIED NO RIGHTS, THEREFORE THEY SHOULD BE EXTENDED NO OTHER RIGHTS.

OnceWasHermes | 7:11 a.m. Jan. 13, 2008

anyone who claims to follow god and then passes judgment on another man's right to come to his own natural conclusion as of to what's best for him, in the very same breath, will be in for the most traumatic experience when it comes time for them to surrender their sense of identity upon death.

their heads will be filled with visions of everything and everyone on which they pass judgment, as those things are received by god with love, and their hearts will be so hardened by their misguided notion of what it means to walk with god, that they'll think they must surely be in hell, and will resist with every fiber of their being from submitting to god's glory. they will endure the most excruciating pain of ego annihilation as they feel their stubborn will for what they think is right and good being burned away by the purifying fire of god's light.

those who, in life, learn to open their hearts and see the world around them as god sees it will be spared the pain in this process, as they will know to surrender to him completely, delighting in the warmth of his embrace.

cool! | 7:08 a.m. Jan. 14, 2008

First this partnership law will come into effect, then polygs can add their additional partner above and beyond the first wife (gays and polgys are strange bedfellows politically but they are none the less), then the Official Declaration can be removed since the "law of the land" will no longer be a hindrance.

No "Cool" | 8:54 a.m. Jan. 14, 2008

This does not have anything to do with polygamists who have more than two as partners. MONOGAMY is the key here.

Anonymous | 10:27 a.m. Jan. 14, 2008

It sounds like discrimination. Either you are in favor of non-traditional personal partnerships or you are not. At least society could benefit from allowing polygamists to have medical coverage for all their wives. I see no benefit for society to allow Homosexuals and "adulterous" couples to have more rights than others who abide by the laws of society.
A benefit of being married AND raising a family is the ï¿½perksï¿½ that come from governmental and societal allowances. It seems contrary to public policy to encourage people NOT to marry because they would have no need or incentive to do so.

It's a separate issue.... | 11:52 a.m. Jan. 14, 2008

There are different numbers involved with polygamy including numerous women & children to be taken care of. This is a different issue and it has to be taken up with a different subject in different courts. Polygamy currently has to face the fact that there have been numerous reports of under-age marriages, non-support of women and children....not to mention the young girls that have felt pressure of this lifestyle and no place to turn.
Your issue is a different discussion all together.

Anonymous | 12:28 p.m. Jan. 14, 2008

In the news recently, we have seen many cases of extreme child abuse committed by the "live in" or the never-married parent. There is no real commitment in these relationships. Children AND society suffer from these relationships. These same relationships will be involved in this political agenda.
It seems contrary to public policy to remove the incentives for marriage. This agenda seems to do just that.
Bringing gays "out of the closet" and leaving polygamy "behind closed doors" seems ludicrous! Stating that polygamists do this or thatï¿½ one could say the same about gays. Gays are not better than the rest of society and deserve no special treatment. We have two homosexuals in our family. We love them. They donï¿½t get a special chair at the table. They are not given the silver while we use flatware.
I am not a polygamist, but I do see a need for them to be ABLE by law to support all their wives. If it is their only option to use publicly funded Medicaid, why would we not include them in this movement?

They don't want special | 1:18 p.m. Jan. 14, 2008

Treatment! Only the same treatment as heterosexual COUPLES (that "two" word being the key word). They DO NOT have the same treatment as other heterosexual couples....I'm not sure why people want to deny that.

Anonymous | 2:15 p.m. Jan. 14, 2008

How is it that they do not have the same legal treatment as any other couple who is living together? Please name legal benefits provided to couples "shacking up" that homosexuals don't also receive.
If you are looking for equal or fair treatment from people... good luck! None of us get that! Life is not fair. It can be very hard based on choices we make. I am divorced and chose to marry a divorcee. We have a ï¿½yours, mine and oursï¿½ family. It is hard sometimes. It is a lifestyle we have chosen. We live with the good and the bad.

Ryan | 3:04 p.m. Jan. 14, 2008

Probably my favorite comment on here was someone seriously saying, "Brigham Young is rolling over in his grave!!! He understood that marriage is only between one man and one woman!"

Did he understand it so well he decided against having more than one wife? Wait, no, he was also engaging in a lifestyle that was shunned by the entire country. Ironically, the rest of the country was using religion as a reason to attack the current LDS lifestyle. You'd think a group of people that have seen persecution in their history would have learned something and not done the same thing to others. Then again, the Mormons did end up bending to the will of the rest of the world and stopped their lifestyle. Good luck getting the Gay and lesbian community to do the same.

Last point. How is anyoneï¿½s lifestyle (regardless of what it is) attacking your marriage?

My Goodness | 3:05 p.m. Jan. 14, 2008

How can anyone not know the ways that non-committed couples are not the same as committed ones!
If wanted and arranged a heterosexual couple can marry, have benefits together including life and health insurance and be considered a couple. Currently, there are only a few states that afford these same rights to homosexual couples. Mayor Becker and some others are trying to make a way for these COUPLES (only monogamous couples) to have some of these benefits.
Sounds like there are issues in your life that need to be resolved that has nothing to do with this issue.
Good luck!

Anonymous | 9:27 p.m. Jan. 14, 2008

This political agenda does NOT involve married couples. Only homosexuals and those couples ï¿½living-in-sin" are being discussed (I tried unsuccessfully to use the phrase ï¿½shacking up"). How is it that they do not have the same legal treatment as ANY other couple who is just living together?

This agenda does NOT allow homosexuals to marry so it is NOT part of the equation.

I will say it again: It seems contrary to public policy to remove the incentives for marriage. This agenda seems to do just that.

Sounds like you are looking for special treatment you're unwilling to afford the rest of the non-traditional families.
Oh, I need to ask a question, how is society supposed to determine whether or not homosexuals or others are monogamous? Married couples get a license and take legal oaths. Sooo...

cool | 8:40 a.m. Jan. 15, 2008

Using the words polygamy, homosexuality and marriage I was able to find this quote: Writing in the Village Voice, gay leftist Richard Goldstein equated the drive for state-sanctioned polygamy with the movement for gay marriage. The political reluctance of gays to embrace polygamists was understandable, said Goldstein, "but our fates are entwined in fundamental ways."
Libertarian Jacob Sullum defended polygamy, along with all other consensual domestic arrangements"

Those for polygamy | 9:35 a.m. Jan. 15, 2008

Go through the correct channels. This issue does not have to do directly with "gay rights". This is because these people wanting to committ are only wanting to do so with one partner. Are they perfect and monogamous? I'm sure not always (just as married people are not always perfect). But the issue is that they want to try.
I would also suggest taking the stigma away regarding polygamy before you strive hard for these rights.
The fact that the leader of a large group that practices plural is in prison and that many others have been accused of terrible crimes is not going to help this matter.

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