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Noah Feldman: A majority of Americans have no idea what Mormons believe
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Alvin May | 12:46 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
After reading several of these comments I felt a need to respond. To say that
Mormons are sheep and believe in a lie is one incredible accusation. To which
there is absolutely no definite proof in the affirmative. I don't plan on
trying to convince everyone that what I believe is true. That conviction is
between them and their God. To say that what I believe and know for myself to
be true is a lie is the same as calling me and millions of other people fools.
Only a fool would believe in a lie.
There have also been comments that the LDS Church hides from its past and keeps secrets. This again is not true. We embrace our past and look forward to making our lives better and moving to the future. Those things you claim as secrets we claim as sacred. We keep those things that are nearest and dearest to us sacred so as not to have them ridiculed or degraded.
I do know this of a surety. Joseph Smith was called of God. Jesus Christ is the savior of the world. I love Him and look forward to the time He comes again.
There have also been comments that the LDS Church hides from its past and keeps secrets. This again is not true. We embrace our past and look forward to making our lives better and moving to the future. Those things you claim as secrets we claim as sacred. We keep those things that are nearest and dearest to us sacred so as not to have them ridiculed or degraded.
I do know this of a surety. Joseph Smith was called of God. Jesus Christ is the savior of the world. I love Him and look forward to the time He comes again.
J. Smith | 1:11 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Please everyone analyze my faith. I did and the conclusion I cam to is The Book
of Mormon is true. Joseph Smith was called of God and Jesus is my savior. I
challenge anyone and everyone to put aside their hostilities and beliefs for 30
days. Try the LDS faith. Attend meetings, practice what we believe and what we
teach, learn the doctrine, study the Book of Mormon, Bible and other scripture,
in essence follow what the Prophet of God teaches and counsels and pray to you
Heavenly Father morning and night. Do this and I promise and guarantee that you
will come know God. He will touch your lives in such a way that you have never
experienced, and this world will become a much better place. Murders would
cease, Burglaries and thefts would be non-existant, and selfishness would cease.
This goes out to many members of the church who currently are not doing these
things.
Comments continue below
He's on the fringe for sure | 1:52 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
RE: fringe benefits. . . what an idiot . . . what men then OR now WANTS to deal
with plural wives/households?? It would have been a huge weight to bear. It
was for the most part an act of compassionate service and a calling . . . a
responsibility. Why ya gotta think with your johnson all the time. If you are
married (I doubt it) and you feel "stuck" with your wife, you have my
most genuine, heartfelt sympathy!!
Good for you - not for me | 2:13 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
If Mormonism had some substance or proof behind it and not based entirely upon
one person's word, I could understand your longing to "spread the
word."
But this is not the case.
Believe what you want to believe or have been told to believe but please don't humiliate yourselves referring to all other religious institutions as "an abmomination." Thank you.
But this is not the case.
Believe what you want to believe or have been told to believe but please don't humiliate yourselves referring to all other religious institutions as "an abmomination." Thank you.
Sammy | 2:17 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
I am wondering why there are always a handful of men intent on practicing
polygamy. These guys are really disturbed. If any one would put themselves in
that kind of situation is complete lunacy. Most men that I know think as I do
and that is polygamy is a form of power and control of others and nothing more.
I am Mormon but don't believe in the principle.
The REAL Bottom Line | 2:27 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
RE: bottom line, NO authorized spokesman for the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints has EVER labeled anyone�s religious
affiliation "an abomination." You bash without a clue! HOWEVER,
Elder Le Grand Richards (authorized) once told of a Catholic acquaintance who
said:
�You Mormons are ignoramuses & don�t know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong! The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. If we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they went out from us. If we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the continuation of the gospel from the days of the Savior, there was no need of such a man as Joseph Smith; but if we have not that continuation then such a man as Joseph Smith is necessary."
So yes, the Restoration is either true, or not. Other faiths are NOT abominations, my well meaning friend. They are just not using all the keys on the piano
�You Mormons are ignoramuses & don�t know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong! The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. If we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they went out from us. If we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the continuation of the gospel from the days of the Savior, there was no need of such a man as Joseph Smith; but if we have not that continuation then such a man as Joseph Smith is necessary."
So yes, the Restoration is either true, or not. Other faiths are NOT abominations, my well meaning friend. They are just not using all the keys on the piano
The Truth Hurts | 2:31 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the farther you get from Utah the
more people believe the following about Mormons: (and I am not making this up to
hurt anybody's feelings)
Brigham Young was just a dirty old man.
Brigham Young was just a dirty old man.
Anonymous | 2:36 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
True or False:
Joseph Smith told people that God commanded he and his buddies to have lots of wives?
Joseph Smith told people that God commanded he and his buddies to have lots of wives?
I get tired of doing this ... | 2:49 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Here ya go "real bottom line" 2:27
(I really hate to repeat the same thing over and over, but here goes, for the umpteenth time -
1 Nephi 13:5-6:
And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches ...
1 Nephi 13:8:
And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
1 Nephi 14:9:
And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
There are plenty more where these came from in the BofM
(I really hate to repeat the same thing over and over, but here goes, for the umpteenth time -
1 Nephi 13:5-6:
And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches ...
1 Nephi 13:8:
And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
1 Nephi 14:9:
And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
There are plenty more where these came from in the BofM
To Outsider | 3:12 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
I can understand your frustrations. However, you might consider asking your
sisters why they chose to have an eternal marriage and be sealed in the temple.
That might give you some insight. Also, the reason that non-members and members
who are, at the time, not living in accordance with the gospel principles are
not permitted inside is due to the deeply sacred nature of the ordinances
performed inside. It's not meant to segregate, simply to respect the
sacred nature of what goes on.
J.Smith | 3:15 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Re: I get tired...
You are correct it says in the Book of Mormon where it speaks of an abominable church. This doesnot necessarily speak of a church or a religion. There is the religion of those who love filthy lucre (money, riches, whine bibbers, etc.) People who belong to a selfish and prideful attitude that scorns God. The truth of the matter is that if you are not on Gods side and practicing all that is good and great in the sight of God then you are doing just the opposite. If God exists then so does the devil.
Ths isn't a matter of what religions are correct rather, the matter of are we doing the correct things. Do we love evil more than we love God?
You are correct it says in the Book of Mormon where it speaks of an abominable church. This doesnot necessarily speak of a church or a religion. There is the religion of those who love filthy lucre (money, riches, whine bibbers, etc.) People who belong to a selfish and prideful attitude that scorns God. The truth of the matter is that if you are not on Gods side and practicing all that is good and great in the sight of God then you are doing just the opposite. If God exists then so does the devil.
Ths isn't a matter of what religions are correct rather, the matter of are we doing the correct things. Do we love evil more than we love God?
not a righteous thing to do | 3:42 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Dear J.Smith -
It appears to me that attempts to set their In-Group apart started early in early Mormon days.
There are more negative references in the Mormon bible slamming other faiths (abominations) than space allows to expose.
This, in my opinion is the height of ignorance and causes passion and anger in anybody who happens to be amongst those "abominations" Nephi so elequently draws attention to.
And that my friend could be labled "loving evil."
It appears to me that attempts to set their In-Group apart started early in early Mormon days.
There are more negative references in the Mormon bible slamming other faiths (abominations) than space allows to expose.
This, in my opinion is the height of ignorance and causes passion and anger in anybody who happens to be amongst those "abominations" Nephi so elequently draws attention to.
And that my friend could be labled "loving evil."
Thanks J SMITH | 3:45 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
for covering my back with this. I would also get "tired of doing
this" if all I was about was quoting ancient scripture with out a CLUE as
to what is really being said. Something about pearls and swine come to mind,
but never mind.
I am not tired, so I will say again . . . no authorized spokeman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints EVER called another religious denomination an abomination. In fact, The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve reach out to leaders of all faiths and their members with both a helping hand in times of crisis, and an invitation to bring all the good that they have and join us in worship and service.
Nephi wasn't aquainted with Peter, Martin Luther or any other religious organization of which you assume he was refering to. So go on and keep repeating yourself if you would like. Your uninformed rhetoric will not magically change into truth and light . . . even after umpteen repetitions!
I am not tired, so I will say again . . . no authorized spokeman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints EVER called another religious denomination an abomination. In fact, The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve reach out to leaders of all faiths and their members with both a helping hand in times of crisis, and an invitation to bring all the good that they have and join us in worship and service.
Nephi wasn't aquainted with Peter, Martin Luther or any other religious organization of which you assume he was refering to. So go on and keep repeating yourself if you would like. Your uninformed rhetoric will not magically change into truth and light . . . even after umpteen repetitions!
a convoluted mess | 4:08 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
The Book of Mormon is supposed to be the "truest book ever wrote.
(sic)"
1 Nephi is chock full of pleasant descriptive terms for other religions that Joseph Smith said that God said are true (mostly the infamous "abomination" variety). Now The Quorum of whatever, said that this is not so.
So, who is lying?
1 Nephi is chock full of pleasant descriptive terms for other religions that Joseph Smith said that God said are true (mostly the infamous "abomination" variety). Now The Quorum of whatever, said that this is not so.
So, who is lying?
How to make friends | 4:17 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Mormon scripture contains imagery similar to the statements in Revelation
regarding the Whore of Babylon, which early Mormons identified as Catholicism.
In a vision, the first prophet in the Book of Mormon, Nephi, saw the
"formation of a church which is most abominable above all other
churches." Founded by the devil, this "great and abominable
church" destroyed the "saints of God," stripped the Bible of
"many parts which are plain and most precious," and worshiped
"the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the
fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots." After a
"great and a marvelous work"--interpreted as the latter-day
restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ--the "mother of abominations ...
the whore of all the earth" would wage war against the Saints of God. With
millennial fervor, Nephi prophesied that the "wrath of God [would be]
poured out upon the great and abominable church" and the Saints would
triumph over the "mother of harlots."
Making more friends | 4:21 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
In contrast to this traditional identification of Catholicism as the Whore of
Babylon, other Latter-day Saints substantially shifted the rhetoric of the Whore
of Babylon during the mid nineteenth century. Theologian and Apostle Orson
Pratt, often viewed as nineteenth-century Mormonism's greatest
intellectual, advocated in a series of discourses and writings that "both
Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of
Babylon." While stating that the Devil founded the Catholic Church, Pratt
also emphasized that Protestant churches, as daughters of the great harlot,
possessed evil properties.
J. Smith | 4:49 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
The simple truth is either it is true or it is not. If it is true then all the
other churches are essentially wrong because they do not have the complete
Gospel of Jesus Christ. Do what God invites all of us to do - Prove me now
herewith. Test him. Study it out in your heart and in your mind. and then ask
Him if it is true. Depending on the true desire of ones heart God will allow
everyone to know.
Abominations | 4:52 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Oh please stop. Other faiths are called an abomination in the official account
of the first vision.
This is straight from LDS.org
"No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight"
This is straight from LDS.org
"No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight"
RE: Abominations | 5:01 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Other faiths are called an abomination in the official account of the first
vision.
This is straight from LDS.org
"No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight"
This is straight from LDS.org
"No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)--and which I should join.
I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight"
At least the Bible | 5:09 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Was written by many people. I don't believe everything the Bible has to
say, but I certainly don't take Joseph Smith's word for it (one man)
about his supposed "revelations". I don't even care that he had
so-called "witnesses". When you read the history in depth you find
that some of these people left the church, some came back and I believe this was
because they thought their "eternal soul" was in danger if they
didn't!
You can certainly believe what you want to, but don't ever think that too many people in the world (numbering in billions) will believe it to!
You can certainly believe what you want to, but don't ever think that too many people in the world (numbering in billions) will believe it to!
Sally | 5:19 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
re: asking or making more friends. I'll have to get the Pratt books and
read them. They look like they go off into the deep end.
Truthmonger | 5:48 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
To Abominations:
If you are god and you the church you instituted has fallen into apostasy and you see people creating their own churches and thus are teaching that which isn't true, and/or are making up their own creeds, then what are you as god to do, or to say?
If you are god and you the church you instituted has fallen into apostasy and you see people creating their own churches and thus are teaching that which isn't true, and/or are making up their own creeds, then what are you as god to do, or to say?
God told me the following ... | 5:48 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
Thank you "Abominations" -
One gets very tired of the non-stop lying from some of these "Christian" people (If not all of them). Either Joseph Smith was telling the truth or was lying about the whole thing. After much prayer and meditation - I believe he was lying. So be it.
Believe what you want LDS people, just don't ask for much compassion from your neighbors when you call everyone else "an abomination"
One gets very tired of the non-stop lying from some of these "Christian" people (If not all of them). Either Joseph Smith was telling the truth or was lying about the whole thing. After much prayer and meditation - I believe he was lying. So be it.
Believe what you want LDS people, just don't ask for much compassion from your neighbors when you call everyone else "an abomination"
Truthmonger | 5:57 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
To those against polygamy:
It was practiced in the old testament, and god never told them to stop, except when practiced wrongly such as solomon and david.
It was never discounted in the new testament.
Jesus and the apostles never said to stop practicing it.
It Is doctrines and teachings and laws of man that have stop the practice of polygamy.
The LDS church stopped the "living" practice of it because they believe in keeping the laws of the land.
Never has god said polygamy is wrong, not once, as long as it practiced correctly.
It was practiced in the old testament, and god never told them to stop, except when practiced wrongly such as solomon and david.
It was never discounted in the new testament.
Jesus and the apostles never said to stop practicing it.
It Is doctrines and teachings and laws of man that have stop the practice of polygamy.
The LDS church stopped the "living" practice of it because they believe in keeping the laws of the land.
Never has god said polygamy is wrong, not once, as long as it practiced correctly.
Abominations | 9:19 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008
To Truthmonger re: the use of abominations by a deity.
I'd assume that an omnipotent authority such as God could use the term whenever they wanted to. This usage didn't show up until one of the later versions of the first vision account leaving me, personally, to believe it was probably an addition on Joseph Smith's part.
I'd assume that an omnipotent authority such as God could use the term whenever they wanted to. This usage didn't show up until one of the later versions of the first vision account leaving me, personally, to believe it was probably an addition on Joseph Smith's part.
Truthmonger | 12:21 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Because Joseph Smith did not tell tell about event in all it details and in the
exact same way the very first time and every time he told it , then you
don't believe it.
What kind of thinking is that?
If some big event happened to you and you told about to your wife, to mother or father , to other family members, to your friends, to your fellow church members, to your doctor or dentist, to your techer , or professor, to your neighbor, to the guys, to your teammates, to your boss, to your cowoerkers, and so on and so on, it you didn't tell it exactly the same way in give every single detail, should we believe you?
Would you tell it the same way, giving every single detail to eveyone?
What kind of thinking is that?
If some big event happened to you and you told about to your wife, to mother or father , to other family members, to your friends, to your fellow church members, to your doctor or dentist, to your techer , or professor, to your neighbor, to the guys, to your teammates, to your boss, to your cowoerkers, and so on and so on, it you didn't tell it exactly the same way in give every single detail, should we believe you?
Would you tell it the same way, giving every single detail to eveyone?
Abominations | 6:39 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Your theory doesn't explain away the very, very different things that
transpired in every account. Was it Jesus that came to visit Joseph? Was it
God? Was it both? Did God pardon Joseph Smith of all of his sins as in the
first account? Did God advise Joseph Smith to not join other churches (which he
subsequently did)?
Each retelling seems more and more grandiose. Coupled with the multiple versions of Joseph being visited by Moroni or Nephi (depending on which version of the visitation that Joseph Smith was passing along the angel's name differs) logic dictates that ever-more sensational additions were made due to the very important discrepancies in each version.
Each retelling seems more and more grandiose. Coupled with the multiple versions of Joseph being visited by Moroni or Nephi (depending on which version of the visitation that Joseph Smith was passing along the angel's name differs) logic dictates that ever-more sensational additions were made due to the very important discrepancies in each version.
Alexa | 8:33 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
I think the reason that it is difficult for Mormons to discuss doctorine is they
only know the edited version discussed at church. Most of the true details of
church history are unknown by members and candid discussions will cause it to
come out and is difficult to discuss. For example, how many members know about
the truths with polygamy? That Joseph and others married other mens wives and
practiced polyandry? that Emma did not know of most of Joseph's marriages?
The first marriage was to 19 year old Fanny (the nanny)between 1831-33 but the
sealing keys were not even restored until 1836. If you get into discussions, it
will cause problems. This is one of many examples. Hopefully there will be a way
for the church to be more open about history so members who discover these
truths won't be going into shock. Richard Bushman just wrote a book called
Rough Stone Rolling which does explain many of these things (at Deseret Book) so
I think slowly people will learn more of what really happened, if they believe
or not.
too fishy for me | 9:19 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
I am glad Mormons believe what they believe. I really could care less.
For me, it gets down to Joseph Smith said that God said that Nephi said ... and it gets way too convoluted and fishy for me to even begin to believe any of it.
You can always tell the liar by the longest tale.
For me, it gets down to Joseph Smith said that God said that Nephi said ... and it gets way too convoluted and fishy for me to even begin to believe any of it.
You can always tell the liar by the longest tale.
To : Alexa...thanks you! | 10:07 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Wow! You said exactly what I want to say. There are too many members who know
nothing about this part of Mormon history that you have mentioned on here.
However, I as you, have studied and learn this for myself. I think if most
members knew all the facts, they might not remain members of the church. My is
opinion to those who squabble around on here, you need to do some research. Of
course, only if you can get by those who wouldn't want you to ever learn
the truth.
JayeG | 10:30 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
I'm sorry Jay...but I'm going to disagree with you. For one thing...an
organization who desires absolute secrecy about it's beliefs doesn't
send missionaries throughout the world to preach the gospel and convert
followers.
An organization who desires absolute secrecy about it's beliefs doesn't publish books about it's beliefs.
And if Mitt Romney fails in his bid for Presidency, which is probably what will happen in light of the rampant misconceptions regarding the modern day LDS faith...the faith will not wither and fade away as you suggested it would.
Remember...this is a faith which in it's infancy, grew in leaps and bounds regardless of the fact that it's members were cheated, tarred and feathered, murdered, driven from their homes, hounded across the wilderness in the dead of winter, and even had many Constitutional Rights as citizens of the United States of America withheld from them.
The LDS Church is here to stay, Jay...whether you believe it or not...and whether you desire their dissolution or not.
An organization who desires absolute secrecy about it's beliefs doesn't publish books about it's beliefs.
And if Mitt Romney fails in his bid for Presidency, which is probably what will happen in light of the rampant misconceptions regarding the modern day LDS faith...the faith will not wither and fade away as you suggested it would.
Remember...this is a faith which in it's infancy, grew in leaps and bounds regardless of the fact that it's members were cheated, tarred and feathered, murdered, driven from their homes, hounded across the wilderness in the dead of winter, and even had many Constitutional Rights as citizens of the United States of America withheld from them.
The LDS Church is here to stay, Jay...whether you believe it or not...and whether you desire their dissolution or not.
"God" never said anything | 10:32 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
About polygamy! To those of you that like to keep this practice in the back of
your mind because of your hormones (or whatever) sorry, but we ladies are on to
you. Oh, I hear some very few ladies like it too so ok for you! But as most of
you know, 90% or more ladies thinks it's an abomination and we really
dislike even the thoughts of it! We don't believe "God" told men
to do it ever (but, we believe some men like to say "God" did.) Men
like this usually end up in prison or so overextended that they don't
hardly know all their kid's names.
Give it a rest and know that we're on to you!
Give it a rest and know that we're on to you!
Anonymous | 11:20 a.m. Jan. 9, 2008
I agree with you on this, Roland. Well put and to the point.
People tend to become very comfortable within their own beliefs. And many people who have been born into a particular faith tend to learn only what is placed before them to learn.
With the Catholics...it is the Catechism. With the Protestants...it is what their preacher's sermons teach them every Sunday.
With the Latter-Day Saints...it is what they have been taught at their mother's knees, what they learned in Sunday School, Primary, Seminary, Young Men and Young Women meetings, and at the Institute of Religion.
Many go on and continue in their studies and quest for further knowledge. Others are content to simply attend their meetings and fulfill their positions, or callings within the Church.
I myself, have never been content to rely on pat questions and answers. Through my studies, I have learned many things about the faith of my forefathers.
I remain a member in spite of the negative things I have learned about the Church history, and the behavior of it's founder...largely because I perceive the modern Church to be a great force for good in the world.
People tend to become very comfortable within their own beliefs. And many people who have been born into a particular faith tend to learn only what is placed before them to learn.
With the Catholics...it is the Catechism. With the Protestants...it is what their preacher's sermons teach them every Sunday.
With the Latter-Day Saints...it is what they have been taught at their mother's knees, what they learned in Sunday School, Primary, Seminary, Young Men and Young Women meetings, and at the Institute of Religion.
Many go on and continue in their studies and quest for further knowledge. Others are content to simply attend their meetings and fulfill their positions, or callings within the Church.
I myself, have never been content to rely on pat questions and answers. Through my studies, I have learned many things about the faith of my forefathers.
I remain a member in spite of the negative things I have learned about the Church history, and the behavior of it's founder...largely because I perceive the modern Church to be a great force for good in the world.
Americans don't really care | 12:21 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
The title of this story, "A majority of Americans have no idea what Mormons
believe" is accurate.
What is also accurate is that a majority of Americans simply DON'T CARE what Mormons believe.
They are quite content, thank you, with their "abomination" of a religion or no religion.
This is God's way.
What is also accurate is that a majority of Americans simply DON'T CARE what Mormons believe.
They are quite content, thank you, with their "abomination" of a religion or no religion.
This is God's way.
Abominations | 12:55 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Alexa : You hit the nail on the head. Many members will label anything about
the church's history that they did not learn in correlated lessons as
"anti-Mormon". Even if the reported events are true and backed up by
the church's own record keeping.
A good example of this occurred after PBS aired their Frontline series, "The Mormons". Daniel Peterson who is an apologist for the church through their official apologetics organization, FARMS, appeared on the program with the title of "Islamic Studies Professor" or something similar. That is because he is by trade a professor of Islamic studies. He is very, very pro-church and candidly discussed a few details of LDS history that are simply *not* taught in Sunday School.
The result? Members on pro-LDS message boards and blogs decrying that the program is "Anti-Mormon" because they had a professor of Islamic studies on the program providing commentary.
A good example of this occurred after PBS aired their Frontline series, "The Mormons". Daniel Peterson who is an apologist for the church through their official apologetics organization, FARMS, appeared on the program with the title of "Islamic Studies Professor" or something similar. That is because he is by trade a professor of Islamic studies. He is very, very pro-church and candidly discussed a few details of LDS history that are simply *not* taught in Sunday School.
The result? Members on pro-LDS message boards and blogs decrying that the program is "Anti-Mormon" because they had a professor of Islamic studies on the program providing commentary.
To Alexa and others | 1:02 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
There are somethings in church history that many members including myself do not
understand, but there are also things that are floating around out there about
Joseph Smith and other parts of Church history that were changed, exaggerated or
just plain lies made up by those who would want to disprove or sling mud at a
faith that scares them and they just can't understand.
The reason it scares many and people have such hostilities is because of the reality that if it is true then they are wrong and everything they were taught their whole lives is wrong.
Religions are great and I believe anyone who believes in Christ and tries to live as he did then good on them. When it comes down to it all this talk is mostly peoples opinions of the LDS church and religion in general. What I try to do and what every member of the LDS church should try to do and are taught to do, is look for the good in everyone and everything.
The reason it scares many and people have such hostilities is because of the reality that if it is true then they are wrong and everything they were taught their whole lives is wrong.
Religions are great and I believe anyone who believes in Christ and tries to live as he did then good on them. When it comes down to it all this talk is mostly peoples opinions of the LDS church and religion in general. What I try to do and what every member of the LDS church should try to do and are taught to do, is look for the good in everyone and everything.
To all | 1:13 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
There is only one God and one Jesus Christ.
If this is true then why are there so many religions that teach so many things that are different in regard to God and Christ?
If There is only one God and one Christ shouldn't they only have one Gospel?
So one would be the right one and all else would be only pretenders, churches set up by satan to lead the children of God astray from the true and everlasting Gospel.
Joseph Smith claims he received devine guidance and instruction in establishing the true church of God. Is this true? This is the only important factor. If it is false then all else about this church is false. I for myself know it is true, and I could never deny it. Find out for yourself and if your heart is in the right place of really truly wanting to know you will experience a relationship with God and Christ like never before.
If this is true then why are there so many religions that teach so many things that are different in regard to God and Christ?
If There is only one God and one Christ shouldn't they only have one Gospel?
So one would be the right one and all else would be only pretenders, churches set up by satan to lead the children of God astray from the true and everlasting Gospel.
Joseph Smith claims he received devine guidance and instruction in establishing the true church of God. Is this true? This is the only important factor. If it is false then all else about this church is false. I for myself know it is true, and I could never deny it. Find out for yourself and if your heart is in the right place of really truly wanting to know you will experience a relationship with God and Christ like never before.
To Abominations | 1:22 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
It is true that somethings some members tend to dismiss as anti-LDS that did
infact happen in church history. There was never anything negative, devilish or
unholy that took place in church history that you have spoken of. Some of the
information that is taken as church history are accounts that are given by
ex-members of the church who were excommunicated and had a grind to as with
Joseph Smith. Take for instance a man, and I regretfully for get his nam,
Joseph misspelled his name on a document and he left the church angry with
Joseph. From that time forth he aligned himself with Joseph's enemies and
told outlandish stories about Joseph such as Joseph forcing women to marry into
polygamy that just did not happen. Yet these things have been taken as church
history and we are stuck again asking if we should believe Joseph Smith or these
other publications. Which is True? we may never know.
Alexa | 1:51 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Abominations got it right. I am a Mormon, although admit after doing some
research with church history, a doubtful believer. One thing that is interesting
is if something is negative towards the church, true or not, it is automatically
dismissed as false and that it must have been made up by the anti-Mormons.
Unfortunately, there are many skeleton bones in the closet and it is not
perfect...not even close! Many of those skeleton bones are quite disturbing to
say the least, but that doesn't mean they did not happen. Other churches
also have some pretty rough history too. However, if you have not dug into the
research and done it yourself, you can not call it exagerated or untrue, unless
you have truly done it yourself. I really admire the current church leaders and
think they are great men. However I can say that trying to make sense of the
doctrines of Brigham Young and Joseph is a tough one! Read the Journal of
discourses...front to back. You will be shocked!
Truthmonger | 4:16 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Whether Joseph Smith gave someone all the details or just few details is
irrelevant.
The fact is none the accounts conflict in the basis of the story.
Joseph Smith desired to know the truth, he prayed, he recieved a divine answer that none of the churches were god's church.
Then over the next many years under divine guidance he re-establish god's one true church on back on earth.
Then 1844, over 2 decades of never racanting his story he sealed, his testimony in blood, when he was murdered by a mob.
So you can believe the story or not, but up to you to find out whether of not it is true, now that you've been told.
The fact is none the accounts conflict in the basis of the story.
Joseph Smith desired to know the truth, he prayed, he recieved a divine answer that none of the churches were god's church.
Then over the next many years under divine guidance he re-establish god's one true church on back on earth.
Then 1844, over 2 decades of never racanting his story he sealed, his testimony in blood, when he was murdered by a mob.
So you can believe the story or not, but up to you to find out whether of not it is true, now that you've been told.
truthsayer | 5:00 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Sorry truthmonger,
I have prayed too, and have received the truth that Smith was just a politician and an incredible liar.
I have prayed too, and have received the truth that Smith was just a politician and an incredible liar.
truthmonger | 6:43 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Don't say sorry to me.
The only political office Joseph Smith held was mayor of nauvoo, the city he founded from a swamp.
Yes he ran for president, but that was because no one in government would defend the first admendment rights of the mormons.
As for being a liar, I guess everyone is entitled to their OPINION.
The only political office Joseph Smith held was mayor of nauvoo, the city he founded from a swamp.
Yes he ran for president, but that was because no one in government would defend the first admendment rights of the mormons.
As for being a liar, I guess everyone is entitled to their OPINION.
re: truth monger | 8:47 p.m. Jan. 9, 2008
Truth monger. I think you have the whole thing wrong. There is no truth in
anything you have written on here. You are sort of hostile though, and there is
no truth whatsoever in anything you say nor to you being a truth monger.
JD | 3:36 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008
I haven't read the comments,but I would like to say that it is true that
the Mormon religion is misunderstood. There is a lot of fear and ignorance
regarding this religion. Romney running for president has been great for the LDS
church and it's members. Many prejudices and issues regarding the church
are being forced to front and center and this is a beginning of many of them to
be dealt with. It is better to deal with them now than later. They aren't
just going away. There has been a lot of lies and misinformation about the
church. The church is seeing how it is perceived by others. Once you see the
problem, you can work on fixing it. We realize that sometimes we have been too
self-righteous or that we should be befriending those not of our faith more. We
also realize that sometimes we haven't stood up for ourselves enough or we
have let other's criticize the church with no fear of consequence. Being
too nice can be a vice and work against us if we are dealing with people who
exploit or insincere people Every situation does not call for the same response.
Work in court/politics
Rob | 9:20 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008
I being born and raised LDS, but recently been excommunicated for my sexual
orientation, read this article, being completely confused. It touches on some
history of the church but hardly touches on any beliefs of their church. I
wouldn't say I believe in their beliefs but the author should at least have
spoken with someone that is LDS. It doesn't touch on actual beliefs and
differences in their church. Also the author keeps referring to the LDS faith as
close to Protestant beliefs which isn't even close. Author needed to do a
little more research before publishing this misinformed article.
politics is politics | 9:20 a.m. Jan. 10, 2008
I would gladly share your belief "truthmonger" in what Joseph Smith
said that God said that 1 Nephi said ...
but I need much more evidence than one person's word. Especially after learning that that one person's (Joseph Smith) interests were in politics.
And as they say, politics is, well ... politics.
but I need much more evidence than one person's word. Especially after learning that that one person's (Joseph Smith) interests were in politics.
And as they say, politics is, well ... politics.
Put it under the carpet PLEASE! | 1:46 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008
I think the misunderstanding is partly do to polygamy. It's a shame that
the church ever participated in such a practice. It really makes a lot of people
mad and angry. Although, too late to change the past, and It would be nice if it
had never happened. It is something most people shun Mormons over.
Anonymous | 2:28 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008
No, "Put it under ..."
People really don't care how many wives so-and-so has or had.
It's being called "an abomination" then hearing what wonderful Christians you are.
Certainly you can't be THAT brainwashed to understand what I am saying?
People really don't care how many wives so-and-so has or had.
It's being called "an abomination" then hearing what wonderful Christians you are.
Certainly you can't be THAT brainwashed to understand what I am saying?
J. Smith | 2:47 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008
Truly Mr. Anon we all understand what you are saying. But we are not calling
anyone an Abomination. We love all people. That being Said there is only one
true church, and all the rest are wrong.
So it is either The LDS Church, Baptist church, Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic, or any one of the hundreds of religions out there. Which one is it? you tell me what you think.
So it is either The LDS Church, Baptist church, Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic, or any one of the hundreds of religions out there. Which one is it? you tell me what you think.
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