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Noah Feldman: A majority of Americans have no idea what Mormons believe
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bwfedup | 2:44 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
It is obvious to me that the author of this article is not a member of the
Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. I say this because the article has
a negative slant. If anyone wants to know the truth of the teachings of this
church, I recommend buying a copy of, "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder."
Jay | 4:49 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
The "truth" about what Mormon's believe is getting out, and we
all know it isn't a good idea. Not including the faith's scripted
"question & answer" routine from fellow journalist members, the
"roots" of your faith, is irrational and is completely unbelievable.
I believe after Romney drops out, your faith will shrink behing closed doors,
and become much more secretive, as you won't desire any more analysis of
your faith.
robert just | 4:56 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
I think we're seeing a replay of the 1960 presidential race when Senator
John F. Kennedy squared off against Richard M. Nixon. At that time the big
discussion centered around Kennedy's being the first Catholic to occupy the
oval office.
Comments continue below
Mom in MO | 5:11 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Enter comment
" ...the doctrine of Celestial -which was to say plural- marriage..."
Who did this research? I have a Celestial marriage, thank you, as have most of my friends, and there is no plurality of wives going on here. That would be against the law.
But the laws, they are a-changing, aren't they? If the states can allow men to marry men, and women to marry women, which was never sanctioned in the Bible, why can't a man marry as many wives as give consent, a thing that the law of Moses said was just fine? Just wondering...
" ...the doctrine of Celestial -which was to say plural- marriage..."
Who did this research? I have a Celestial marriage, thank you, as have most of my friends, and there is no plurality of wives going on here. That would be against the law.
But the laws, they are a-changing, aren't they? If the states can allow men to marry men, and women to marry women, which was never sanctioned in the Bible, why can't a man marry as many wives as give consent, a thing that the law of Moses said was just fine? Just wondering...
Al | 5:44 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
First, the Republican committment of LDS people is based on values, nothing
else. Them Democrat party left the Church. The Church at one time was heavily
Democratic. The author says "there is something vaguely troubling in the
Mormon manner or world view. What is troubling is that virtually nothing is
published about the unequaled welfare and humanitarian work done worldwide. The
Brazilian Senate just honored The Mormons. Our Temples have open houses before
dedication, any one, including the author may visit. Baptism for the dead 1Cor:
15;29 is scriptural. Roman 8:14, 17 states that we are joint heirs with
Christ.
Polygamy was the basis for the Reed Smoot trial, after two years of hearings one southern Senator said, "the issue here isn't about whether a man has more than one women or not, because I know some of you (senators)who have more than one woman. The issue seems to be whether they are called wives or not. As for me I would rather have a polygamist who doesn't polyig than a monagamist who doesn't monague.
Southern Baptists were Klan members, and their churches excluded blacks. Catholics have sex crimes and the Inquisition. But all the talk is about "The Mormon's".
Polygamy was the basis for the Reed Smoot trial, after two years of hearings one southern Senator said, "the issue here isn't about whether a man has more than one women or not, because I know some of you (senators)who have more than one woman. The issue seems to be whether they are called wives or not. As for me I would rather have a polygamist who doesn't polyig than a monagamist who doesn't monague.
Southern Baptists were Klan members, and their churches excluded blacks. Catholics have sex crimes and the Inquisition. But all the talk is about "The Mormon's".
Reality | 9:53 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
NEWS FLASH - most Mormons do not know what their church believes are. One
example is the LDS lack of ability to equate the relationship of non-practice
and believe. A dog is not a dog because it barks; it barks because it is a dog;
and if it dosn't bark at all, it is still a dog. The Mormon pratice of
trying to camouflage the dog with the tired saying of we need to stay with milk
because we are not ready for the meat of Mormon believe mostly serves to quieten
only fellow Mormons. Outsiders are not incapable of seeing through the Mormon
camouflage. This may be fustrating to Mormons, but the best long term solution
is for the church to open its secret records and history and let the light in
and then make changes. The same as they did with the Black issue. I am sure the
DN will censore this post, but maybe it will help to open the mind of one DN
employee. You too can be free and use your God given gift of self reason. Good
luck and a good new a year.
Dr. Dean L. Thomson | 9:57 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
It is evident that the author of this article has done some significant study
regarding the theology and history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints.
He has put his finger on several of the key issues that face Protestants and Mormons as they face off and attempt to civilly establish a position of agreeing to disagree theologically.
A large portion of those who reject the Mormons as being Christian do so based upon their limited exposure provided to them by biased, misinformed would-be theologians.
When the truth is ultimately known, it will be discovered that the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is most closely related to the tenets held by the church that Christ established.
Only then will we recognize that traditional Christianity is a result of the councils called to rationalize and compromise the positions held by a variety of factions contaminated by Hellenic, gnostic and other apostate philosophies.
However, in the final analysis, a presidential candidate should be selected by observing how well he lives his personal life and how he well manages his civil responsibilities and not by the tenets of his religious observance.
He has put his finger on several of the key issues that face Protestants and Mormons as they face off and attempt to civilly establish a position of agreeing to disagree theologically.
A large portion of those who reject the Mormons as being Christian do so based upon their limited exposure provided to them by biased, misinformed would-be theologians.
When the truth is ultimately known, it will be discovered that the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is most closely related to the tenets held by the church that Christ established.
Only then will we recognize that traditional Christianity is a result of the councils called to rationalize and compromise the positions held by a variety of factions contaminated by Hellenic, gnostic and other apostate philosophies.
However, in the final analysis, a presidential candidate should be selected by observing how well he lives his personal life and how he well manages his civil responsibilities and not by the tenets of his religious observance.
rolandkayser | 10:07 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Most Americans don't know what their own religions believe, let alone
anyone else's.
cindyf | 10:12 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Don't all Christians believe Jesus (and therefore, God, since God and Jesus
(and the Holy Ghost) are believed to be one) lived on this earth as a man? I
thought that was what the New Testament was all about...Or did the author mean
they live as an exalted state of men today, like the Mormons believe? His last
paragraph was confusing. It needs a better edit.
wrz | 10:16 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
A majority of Americans don't know what Quakers believe, either. Former
President Richard M. Nixon was a Quaker.
Rick | 10:24 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Why is this such a concern for Mormons? I would say that a majority of Mormons
have no idea what Muslims, Buddhists, Hinduists, or even Scientologists believe
in. It's true that outside of Utah, Nevada, California and Arizona most
people aren't in constant contact with the church and its members. I
don't take this as Mormon hating per se but rather as a lack of
familiarity.
As for the "teaching that God and Jesus were once men"...doesn't all of Christianity believe that Jesus came down to earth in the form of man? i guess I missed the memo when Protestants changed their belief regarding this point of doctrine.
As for the "teaching that God and Jesus were once men"...doesn't all of Christianity believe that Jesus came down to earth in the form of man? i guess I missed the memo when Protestants changed their belief regarding this point of doctrine.
Follow the money | 10:39 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Why don't Americans know = why do their ministers/pastors tell them to
avoid finding out?
Why are the other clergy afraid?
While many, perhaps most, of the ministers are sincere individuals, it's also their income! LDS leaders work a full-time job to support their families, then work another steady part-time job unpaid, serving their neighbors.
When clergy of Protestantism and Catholicism join the LDS, and many have, they let go of a fairly easy job and all the prestige of the position.
But they do, because they have the courage of a divine witness that the work is God's, not just another man-made church.
Or else they stick with their vested interest in the prestige (and sometimes with a mob mentality), actively spreading a shallow, twisted version of "what Mormons believe" to keep their revenue source from getting interested. I've seen it happen repeatedly.
(Until a couple of years ago, Dr. Feldman of Harvard could have turned to the Dean of the Business School at Harvard for answers. Dr. Kim Clark left there to become president of BYU-Idaho. Another Harvard department head had just made a similar move a short while before.)
Why are the other clergy afraid?
While many, perhaps most, of the ministers are sincere individuals, it's also their income! LDS leaders work a full-time job to support their families, then work another steady part-time job unpaid, serving their neighbors.
When clergy of Protestantism and Catholicism join the LDS, and many have, they let go of a fairly easy job and all the prestige of the position.
But they do, because they have the courage of a divine witness that the work is God's, not just another man-made church.
Or else they stick with their vested interest in the prestige (and sometimes with a mob mentality), actively spreading a shallow, twisted version of "what Mormons believe" to keep their revenue source from getting interested. I've seen it happen repeatedly.
(Until a couple of years ago, Dr. Feldman of Harvard could have turned to the Dean of the Business School at Harvard for answers. Dr. Kim Clark left there to become president of BYU-Idaho. Another Harvard department head had just made a similar move a short while before.)
Bob | 10:41 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
As a child I was raised in a family of fierce Mormon women. However as a
teenager I lost contact with belief in God. As an adult I found that the more I
came to know about religion, the less I could believe in God.
Today I am more and more convinced that Churches and religions are simply tools that conspiring men use to enslave other men. And in that there is an intense competition not just for the souls of men but also for their wealth.
I feel that it is this competition that fuels the animosity between religions in America and throughout the world.
It does't really matter what a church believes, it is regarded as a competive enemy in the religious arena.
Today I am more and more convinced that Churches and religions are simply tools that conspiring men use to enslave other men. And in that there is an intense competition not just for the souls of men but also for their wealth.
I feel that it is this competition that fuels the animosity between religions in America and throughout the world.
It does't really matter what a church believes, it is regarded as a competive enemy in the religious arena.
J.Jackman | 10:41 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
The fact that the majority of Americans have no idea what Mormons believe leaves
the LDS Church in unique position to re-define its beliefs to the acceptance of
Americian culture. In deed, there has been a gradual transition in this
direction for the last 100 years, as well as a correlated indoctrination of
church membership over the past 50 years. Beginning with the movement to
abandon and then persecute members who professed belief in the doctrines of
plural marriage, Church Leadership began in the 1960's to embrace the
Protestant views of Christology, de-emphasizing LDS historical roots in favor to
promoting doctrines that emphasized the role of Christ in thier faith. Similar
changes embraces the roles of women in both temple and sunday religious
services. Using the Church's new series of "Teachings of the
Prophets" for Gospel Doctrine, Relief Society, and Priesthood curriculam,
the comprehensive teachings of various Prophets has been written to exclude
major teachings of these leaders, which in effect provides the church with the
ability to re-write its history and beliefs. It is a small step to extend this
process of propaganda production through the national political media to
accomplish a Protestantization of Mormonism.
Fredd | 10:45 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
My wife's family is Mormon. Because of that I tried to learn what i could.
I have a huge problem with the secrecy, and believe me its secret. I find
quite a few (most?) Mormons have vastly different levels of knowledge about
their own theology and history. I also have a problem with the flip flopping.
Every sacred tenet that the sciences disprove or cast legitamate doubt on are
either changed or altrnative interpretations are presented. but the original
info came straight from God via the Prophets so how come its ever changing? Was
God the Father ever a man? Posters here play word games about Jesus being man
and since he God anf Holy Ghost were one then of course God was man. But you
know darn well that's not the question. Do you believe god the father was
man before Jesus walked on earth? I'll get no answer or word games or
varying answers because Mormons won't answer theological question srrtaight
up. No offense but that's been my experience. Love my wife's family,
can't figure out why they believe this stuff, but since I don't have
an alternative for them i keep my mouth shut.
Nelson | 10:49 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Gee, this article does not mention the Mormons" dislke for Black people and
only in 1978 allowed Blacks into the priesthood.
Not many Blacks have entered the religion and they are for the most part not encouraged to join it.
Many mormons have grown with a racist attitude toward Blacks because of the Church"s postion on Blacks.
Not many Blacks have entered the religion and they are for the most part not encouraged to join it.
Many mormons have grown with a racist attitude toward Blacks because of the Church"s postion on Blacks.
MoJules | 10:52 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Well said Rick, I have never been able to comprehend a God without body, parts
or passion, but what is even harder to comprehend is how they claim that Jesus
is God, and we know he had a body, he died, and he was resurrected, which means
he has a body again. OH, and Jay, get in line, when they killed Joseph Smith,
they thought that would end the Mormon church, 13 million later, and yes some of
those are not active. But if Romney is defeated, which I think he will be, I
believe that many will maybe realize that they need to better understand the
Mormons. As for whom I choose to vote for, as in the past, their religion will
have nothing to do with it, but their values and their ideas will, and I would
never be shallow enough to not vote for someone because of their religion. I
didn't know Nixon was a Quaker, and he was the first president I voted for.
I do feel that I would not vote for someone who hates my religion, I won't
mention names, but I could end up voting Democrat in the Nov. elections.
G rated comment | 10:56 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Most mormons don't know what they believe, this is because of they are told
not to read anything that questions their belief. Keep following the prophet
(profit)and you will know the truth.
Hey Fred | 11:00 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
The sad truth is people are afraid of questions. I'd find a Mormon who
isn't, and who knows enough to give you straight answers, and ask them.
I'd guess you're not getting straight-up, satisfactory answers to those questions because it's dealing with doctrine that is not taught or emphasized in the church, and frankly, shouldn't be, given it's relevance(or lack thereof) to one's personal salvation.
I'd guess you're not getting straight-up, satisfactory answers to those questions because it's dealing with doctrine that is not taught or emphasized in the church, and frankly, shouldn't be, given it's relevance(or lack thereof) to one's personal salvation.
Anonymous | 11:04 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Mormons believe what is politically convenient- be that polygamy or not, racisim
or not, abortion or not, just ask flip flopping Mit- a true blue Mormon.
FrozenChosen | 11:12 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
The true irony is that even though evangelical theology is very different from
what the LDS Church teaches, most of what acutal evangelical people believe is
closer to LDS theology. Two examples; ask an evangelical if he prays to a
personal, living god with a body in the form of men or if he believes is a
constantly morphing, three-in-one spirit with no shape or form. Also, ask a
married evangelical if he believes he will be with his or her spouse after
death, even though their marriage vows say, "till death do you part".
Most of the evangelicals I've talked to (and I know lot of them) believe
the latter in both examples.
Fredd | 11:14 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
To Hey Fredd: If you are seeking salvation through the LDS church how can all
of their doctrine not be important?
Why? | 11:14 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Jay @4:49, Reality @9:53,
What would be the reason Mormons would want to pull a scam? Why would leaders hide 'the truth'?
Are they making bundles off the poor stupid members?
Do their wives have 400 pair of shoes, and air-conditioned doghouses? Do they drive luxury cars and live in mansions? Nope, that's the tel-evangelicals.
Are you saying that millions (of some of the most educated people in history) investigate the Church, join, give decades of dedication and service, and pass their values on to generations --but a few anonymous smart-guys figured it all out?
No one is taking you seriously --who isn't already looking for an excuse to get away from living the gospel.
And BTW, we already know many do fall away, back to the influence of the world, as mortals have done ever since Christ, but not Because Of the gospel. You can read the prophecies of that in the Bible.
And we know that many members including leaders in all ages have been imperfect, done imperfect things. Remember, Peter denied the Son of God three times, one of the Savior's chosen apostles betrayed Him, one was known as 'Doubting', apostles disagreed until they learned by revelation.
What would be the reason Mormons would want to pull a scam? Why would leaders hide 'the truth'?
Are they making bundles off the poor stupid members?
Do their wives have 400 pair of shoes, and air-conditioned doghouses? Do they drive luxury cars and live in mansions? Nope, that's the tel-evangelicals.
Are you saying that millions (of some of the most educated people in history) investigate the Church, join, give decades of dedication and service, and pass their values on to generations --but a few anonymous smart-guys figured it all out?
No one is taking you seriously --who isn't already looking for an excuse to get away from living the gospel.
And BTW, we already know many do fall away, back to the influence of the world, as mortals have done ever since Christ, but not Because Of the gospel. You can read the prophecies of that in the Bible.
And we know that many members including leaders in all ages have been imperfect, done imperfect things. Remember, Peter denied the Son of God three times, one of the Savior's chosen apostles betrayed Him, one was known as 'Doubting', apostles disagreed until they learned by revelation.
Clare | 11:15 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
All I can say to the negative comments about the church is that I know it is
true. I have felt the spirit bear testimony to me. I have had blessings beyond
compare because of the gospel. It is not something that can be believed in by
just intellectual knowledge. It is something that burns in the breast and tells
you that it is true. Everyone has free choice. All I can tell you is that
without the church my life would be like a picture that lacks color. I know why
I am here on Earth. I live with joy. I have many illnesses. I could revile
God, but instead I embrace each challenge with the knowledge that it will help
me grow while on Earth. That it will teach me compassion and love for my fellow
brothers and sisters. Mitt Romney has the qualities I look for in all of my
leaders, regardless of their faith. He is a morally good man. My husband says
that this is like casting pearls before swine. I don't believe it. I wish
luck to all of the candidates who live moral lives, regardless of their
religion.
Lawson | 11:17 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
I would challenge all Christians to read "The Road To Nicea-Christian
History. This is a Christian website.Then read The Nicean Creed. This was
political meeting called by Emperor Constantine about 325 A.D. where the concept
of The Trinity was argued and developed. This was an age when The Church
believed the earth was flat and punished any belief to the contrary. Non
believers in The Trinity were also punished.
The Nicean Creed is the major area of disagreement with L.D.S. This creed is not biblical nor understandable and was developed by Bishops of the church during the time preceding the Dark Ages to achieve unity at Constantine's direction. Why Protestants, during the Reformation, rejected most all things Catholic and accepted this creed is difficult to understand.
The Nicean Creed is the major area of disagreement with L.D.S. This creed is not biblical nor understandable and was developed by Bishops of the church during the time preceding the Dark Ages to achieve unity at Constantine's direction. Why Protestants, during the Reformation, rejected most all things Catholic and accepted this creed is difficult to understand.
Matt | 11:17 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
to; Mom in MO:
You need to do MORE research. Use your own scriptures. Read it completely IN CONTEXT. You will find that indeed, Celestial Marriage WAS (is? - hard to say because your church changes things so much) Plural Marriage. Really REALLY do your research. The term "new and everlasting convenant" meant "plural marriage". You need to do some reading.
You need to do MORE research. Use your own scriptures. Read it completely IN CONTEXT. You will find that indeed, Celestial Marriage WAS (is? - hard to say because your church changes things so much) Plural Marriage. Really REALLY do your research. The term "new and everlasting convenant" meant "plural marriage". You need to do some reading.
Dana | 11:21 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
A good many of us Mormons . . . do know what we believe and try to live as close
to being Christ like (the example Christ set in the New Testament) as we can. We
read and we study many subjects and issues. I can't speak for all because I
am one individual. I am imperfect like the rest of us but I believe in loving my
neighbor, praying for help, treating others the way I would like to be treated
and being honest as well as other stable values. I realize my actions will be
interpreted by other peoples views and life's experiences. I am not in
charge of that. I am a Mormon or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saint
member, who will vote for Romney because in all the reading I have done on all
the candidates he seems the most capable to undertake and accomplish the tasks
that need to be taken to keep Our Country safe. I of course allow you your own
opinions and don't need to argue with you about it.
al | 11:27 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Nelson, are you unaware that hundreds of thousands of blacks in Africa have
joined the Church? There were constant pleas to The Church for literature. It is
my belief that these pleas were part of the reason that much prayer was offered
and finally all were able to have the Priesthood. There are now 2 Temples in
Africa.
Hey+ G Rated Comment. Ask me!
Hey+ G Rated Comment. Ask me!
Jake | 11:51 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Nelson,you don't know what you are talking about. In theChurch ward that I
belong to, one of the counselor's to the Bishop is a black man. There are
hundreds of thousands of black people in the church. Maybe they aren't
encouraged to join the churc??? Why then are there Mormon Missionaries in
Africa???? Get real.
Same vintage of whine | 12:03 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
We do know every time we meet Mormons they are selling something. They show no
respect for the beliefs of others and they favor their own. If we reject
Mormons, it because of how they treat us.
to al | 12:08 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
So many prayers were the reason the LDS church changed the way blacks were
thought of. You could argue that the climate of the american culture was putting
enormous pressure on the church leadership, maybe the loss of their tax status
with the government was more of a factor than prayer. Also, could you comment
about Brigham Young's statements(sermons) about the blacks and inter-racial
marriages. You know it is all in your Church history books!
Brad | 12:09 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
This article does a great job of pointing out that the reverse is also true. A
majority of Mormons have no idea what evangelicals believe.
"Mormons share nearly all the conservative commitments so beloved of the evangelicals who wield disproportionate influence in primary elections."
As a person who has lived both faiths, this statement shows simple ignorance of what conservative commitments of evangelicals really are.
"Mormons share nearly all the conservative commitments so beloved of the evangelicals who wield disproportionate influence in primary elections."
As a person who has lived both faiths, this statement shows simple ignorance of what conservative commitments of evangelicals really are.
Real Knowledgeable LDS In UT | 12:12 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
I am an LDS living in Utah. I have been a Morman all my life. My ancestors knew
Joseph and Hyrum Smith and joined the Church under their teachings. Later those
same relatives came to Utah with Brigham Young, but that is not the reason I am
a faithful Latter-Day-Saint. I read the Book of Morman early on in my life and
many times since. I did as Moroni directed in his promise.(Moroni 10:4-5)I had
that "PROMISE" fully realized. If you want to know what Mormans
believe then read the Book of Morman with real intent believing that God will
make known to you the truth of this book. There is no better way to know. We
are smiling at our house over all the articles and comments. Joesph Smith said
this Church would be preached to every nation. What better way to have the
Gospel spread than to have a Morman run for President, win or lose. Thanks for
all the comments, but be kind in what you write and make sure it is really the
truth.
Secrets! | 12:14 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Those Mormons are so secretive, especially in how they travel throughout the
world (on their own dime) to share their "secret" (read: the fullness
of the Gospel of Jesus Christ) with whomever will listen. The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true -- but shhhhhhhh, don't tell anyone;
it's a secret.
Questions for al | 12:16 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Why has the vision story changed so many times?
Did Joseph Smith marry anyone under the age of 15?
Did Brigham Young preach that Adam was God?
Do people live on the moon?
Did Joseph Smith really translate the golden plates by sticking his head in a hat, and look through magic seer stones?
Kinderhook plates? Book of Abraham? All the physical evidence found pertaining the BOM?
Did Joseph Smith marry anyone under the age of 15?
Did Brigham Young preach that Adam was God?
Do people live on the moon?
Did Joseph Smith really translate the golden plates by sticking his head in a hat, and look through magic seer stones?
Kinderhook plates? Book of Abraham? All the physical evidence found pertaining the BOM?
Educated Literate | 12:22 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Well the author has a few glaring errors and it is obvious that even he does not
know what the LDS believe. He should do more research on Teddy
Roosevelt�s attempts to seat, not oppose Reed Smoot, as
well as the Government (state and federal) violating the religion establishment
clause.
However, remember that there is no such thing as bad press. The Church has lived through worse, and it is somewhat surprising to me that when public controversy abounds an increase of convert baptism is the result!
However, remember that there is no such thing as bad press. The Church has lived through worse, and it is somewhat surprising to me that when public controversy abounds an increase of convert baptism is the result!
hogwash | 12:30 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
to the so-called monitors: the fact that you apparently censored my first
comment just proves your (mormons) fear of open dialogue, what a phoney joke you
all are. I guess the "one true church" knows it is not able to stand
the scrutiny of the outside world. And by the way, it isn't.
JWK | 12:30 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Nelson, I live in Tennessee and we have many blacks that are members here. Our
missionaries are constantly teaching those in the black community. Blacks bring
great things with their membership in the Church and I appreciate them.
Prior to 1978 there were many blacks in the Church. They had all that anyone in any other church had, just not the Priesthood at that time. Prior to 1978 there were several churches organized in Africa based on the Book of Mormon. Upon the revelation in 1978 there were mass baptisms in Africa and a Temple sits on the African Continent.
Prior to 1978 there were many blacks in the Church. They had all that anyone in any other church had, just not the Priesthood at that time. Prior to 1978 there were several churches organized in Africa based on the Book of Mormon. Upon the revelation in 1978 there were mass baptisms in Africa and a Temple sits on the African Continent.
Reality | 12:31 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Clare, I am happy for you that you have found something in life that brings you
happiness and makes a better life for you. One thing that troubles me is that
this is a standard answer from Mormons: the warm feeling in the heart. But
other people also have strong feelings of happiness derived from their believes
in, their favorite books, family, cars, wine, etc. and they get the same heart
felt feelings that you experience. It doesn't prove anything. For me it
is fishing, hiking and my dog.
Escaped. | 12:32 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
A majority of MORMONS have no idea what MORMONS believe!
Dan Knudsen | 12:33 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
It's interesting that Mormons are condemned for not letting blacks have the
Priesthood before 1978; however, if Mormons were wrong, what a service they did
for the blacks! How does that compare to the Christians having segregated
churches for the blacks, running the KKK (after all, how many Mormons, Jews,
Muslims and blacks belonged to that organization?), and also persecuting the
Mormons (how many Jews and Muslims did that in the USA?), driving them from
state to state, killing many of them, raping their women, and taking their land
and property. Since they were the true Christians, were all those actions
sanctioned by God, and no acknowledgment or apologies needed?
Why did Jesus say �Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect� (Matthew 5:48)? Why did Paul say that we�re joint-heirs with Christ? If we can�t become like them, don�t those teachings give false hope? Isn�t it a waste of our time to live the commandments so that we can sing and play a harp all the time? Shouldn�t we put more time into harp and singing lessons instead? Mark Twain�s �Letters From The Earth� has some interesting comments on that alleged hypocrisy.
Why did Jesus say �Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect� (Matthew 5:48)? Why did Paul say that we�re joint-heirs with Christ? If we can�t become like them, don�t those teachings give false hope? Isn�t it a waste of our time to live the commandments so that we can sing and play a harp all the time? Shouldn�t we put more time into harp and singing lessons instead? Mark Twain�s �Letters From The Earth� has some interesting comments on that alleged hypocrisy.
Deena | 12:36 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
To Matt - umm, having read the scriptures you are talking about MANY times,
having been married in the temple for 17 years, having been an active member of
the Church all my life, graduated from seminary, could go on but that should
establish my credentials...
Celestial marriage and plural marriage are NOT interchangeable. I have a celestial marriage. It is necessary to be married for time and all eternity in the temple by one who has authority, and then to honor my covenants. That's it - once is good enough. Yes, a man may enter the covenant more than once (for example, if his first wife died and he married again), and be sealed to both wives in the eternities. But it isn't necessary for his salvation or theirs. Back in pioneer days, only a small percentage of members were in plural marriages. It didn't make one better than another, or result in different levels of acceptability or rank in the church.
Celestial marriage and plural marriage are NOT interchangeable. I have a celestial marriage. It is necessary to be married for time and all eternity in the temple by one who has authority, and then to honor my covenants. That's it - once is good enough. Yes, a man may enter the covenant more than once (for example, if his first wife died and he married again), and be sealed to both wives in the eternities. But it isn't necessary for his salvation or theirs. Back in pioneer days, only a small percentage of members were in plural marriages. It didn't make one better than another, or result in different levels of acceptability or rank in the church.
Smiling in Utah | 12:53 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Reading this is more fun that words can say. We are all smiling in Utah as
everyone takes a shot at the Mormons. How does everyone know that we are
secretive flip-floppers, etc. Most Mormons are more than happy to tell anyone
about their belief in this "true" Church. However, the sad fact is
that many members of the Church just don't know everything, or have this
messed up just a bit. So, when you hear something or are told something about us
Mormons, please write to the Church Headquarters or get the missionaries to help
you. Education in any subject, faith or belief in anyone's religion needs
to be the truth or it is fiction. Real true knowledge is power and without it,
it makes anyone sound like a nut. By the way, to the comment about living on
the moon, there is no life there because the property value is just too high.
See what I mean...I sound like a nut when I don't tell the truth.
Don | 12:57 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
If I get a chance to vote for Mitt I will. I'm a Baptist but I still
disagree with Huckabee's positions on Iraq, our borders, spending
priorities and other issues.
I agree with Mormon positions on most moral and social issues and would rether be led by a conservative Mormon than a liberal or "moderate" Baptist.
I don't see that my having doctrinal differences with the Mormon church makes me anti-Mormon any more than the Mormon church having missionaries to the Baptists in Georgia makes the Mormons anti-Baptist.
Some of my doctrinal differences with the LDS church include:
1)We don't go on to become gods of our own creations, and in fact the sin that caused Satan's downfall was pride when he said "I will be as God."
2)Satan was a created being.
3)Jesus has always existed as God but under another name. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the Beginning with God."
4) The Word laid aside its attributes of power and came to Earth and became Jesus. In this way the Word became the "only begotten Son of God."
I agree with Mormon positions on most moral and social issues and would rether be led by a conservative Mormon than a liberal or "moderate" Baptist.
I don't see that my having doctrinal differences with the Mormon church makes me anti-Mormon any more than the Mormon church having missionaries to the Baptists in Georgia makes the Mormons anti-Baptist.
Some of my doctrinal differences with the LDS church include:
1)We don't go on to become gods of our own creations, and in fact the sin that caused Satan's downfall was pride when he said "I will be as God."
2)Satan was a created being.
3)Jesus has always existed as God but under another name. "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the Beginning with God."
4) The Word laid aside its attributes of power and came to Earth and became Jesus. In this way the Word became the "only begotten Son of God."
John | 1:00 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
It is what Mormons believe and how they are perceived that is the problem.
Arrogant in both. Non-Mormons use these comment pages to rail against Mormons
and Mormons use them to rant right back. Maybe it is time for Mormons to read
between the lines on why a lot of people (many right here in Utah) do not like
them. You can claim that "church" outsiders are mean and out to get
you all you want, but the real problem is how you are perceived. In Utah,
Mormonism is in your face. Outside Utah, it is a little more subtle. However,
the message is the same... "We are better than you because only we can go
to the real heaven." That, my Mormon friends, is arrogance and is irksome
to the rest of us. The sad part is that no matter how you try or what you do in
the way of outreach will not work because it is your beliefs that make you feel
that you are better than everybody else. And it shows. Read your on comments.
m.p. | 1:19 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
I belive that when the mormon faith starts to practice what they preach.They
will be better off for it, because if they truely belived in the bible and
followed the scripture, like thet say they do they wouldnt put all there faith
on the book of mormon which is a total bunk.And calling each other secerts names
just to get into heaven.Plesas read john 3:16 thats where you will find out how
it done, the only way;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Wilkey | 1:30 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
(In my best phony innocent/naive/curious/southern-accented voice):
Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers?
secrecy | 1:33 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
That idea is laughable. The Mormon church wants to hide it's beliefs.
That's why it sends 53,000 + missionaries into the world to share it's
message. It's also why they have a web site, open houses to temples,
commercials, mutli-denominational forums, and why they broadcast their general
conferences ALL OVER THE WORLD. I can see how they are locked down and tight
lipped. Don't want that message to get out.
Here's a questions for evangelical protestant church members. Who started your church? Now that's the secret you hope nobody finds out. Here's some of your history: you protested against mainstream christianity and were cut off because you were heretics. Basically, according to your definition for Mormons, you haven't been christians for centuries.
Here's a questions for evangelical protestant church members. Who started your church? Now that's the secret you hope nobody finds out. Here's some of your history: you protested against mainstream christianity and were cut off because you were heretics. Basically, according to your definition for Mormons, you haven't been christians for centuries.
Its easy... | 1:49 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
To understand the doctrines of the LDS church is easy. Just like constructing a
building, if you start with the foundation, it's very easy to comphrehend
how the roof is supported. Same with the church. Start with the foundation and
it's very easy, if not elementary logical, what the LDS church believes and
very easy to comprehend. Most if not all critics are trying to fit a roof onto
a building with no walls or foundation. I can see why they are confused. But
they are adamant, "No, the roof goes on first! That's what we were
taught, that's what we believe. And no, we don't want to read your
blueprints! We have our own blueprints, we don't need any other
blueprints!"
Tom C. | 1:50 p.m. Jan. 6, 2008
I think Professor Feldman's article is a nice try, but it still combines so
many misconceptions with the legitimate points made that it is not helpful. In
fact, it muddies the water even more. (sigh)
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