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Only the beginning: Romney hedges on Iowa but says he'll be nominee
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Mo-Town | 5:59 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
It sounds like many of you have put Alex and Have Some Compassion in their
place, so I'll just add this.
I have never read the Geneva Convention, but if it really does specifically condemn the act of waterboarding, I say hell with it. The United States of Ameirca understands what torture really is, and we don't engage in it. We don't cut off limbs, we don't starve prisoners, we don't drownd. We just assimilate that we might do those things. That's what saves lives. The CIA have been doing this sort of stuff for years. They know exactly what works and what doesn't, and who is Alex or any other liberal like him to assume they know better?
Sympothizing with terrorists is a serious pet peeve of mine, and makes zero sense that there is such a big contingent in this country that consistently does that.
Mitt gets it. We don't talk about interrogation techniques.
I have never read the Geneva Convention, but if it really does specifically condemn the act of waterboarding, I say hell with it. The United States of Ameirca understands what torture really is, and we don't engage in it. We don't cut off limbs, we don't starve prisoners, we don't drownd. We just assimilate that we might do those things. That's what saves lives. The CIA have been doing this sort of stuff for years. They know exactly what works and what doesn't, and who is Alex or any other liberal like him to assume they know better?
Sympothizing with terrorists is a serious pet peeve of mine, and makes zero sense that there is such a big contingent in this country that consistently does that.
Mitt gets it. We don't talk about interrogation techniques.
Anonymous 4:37 | 6:21 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
Have to got to bed (Living in Europe) But here's for your consideration.
An Open Letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. April 5, 2006.
Signed by over a 100 US Professors of law.
"Waterboarding, when used against people captured in the context of war, may also amount to a war crime as defined under the federal war crimes statute 18 U.S.C. � 2441, which criminalizes grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions (in international armed conflicts), and violations of Article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions (in non-international armed conflicts). Waterboarding is also an assault, and thus violates the federal assault statute, 18 U.S.C. � 113"
"Waterboarding is torture. It causes severe physical suffering in the form of reflexive choking, gagging, and the feeling of suffocation ... If uninterrupted, waterboarding will cause death by suffocation. It is also foreseeable that waterboarding, by producing an experience of drowning, will cause severe mental pain and suffering. The technique is a form of mock execution by suffocation with water. The process incapacitates the victim from drawing breath, and causes panic, distress, and terror of imminent death. Many victims of waterboarding suffer prolonged mental harm for years and even decades afterward."
Take Care!
An Open Letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. April 5, 2006.
Signed by over a 100 US Professors of law.
"Waterboarding, when used against people captured in the context of war, may also amount to a war crime as defined under the federal war crimes statute 18 U.S.C. � 2441, which criminalizes grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions (in international armed conflicts), and violations of Article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions (in non-international armed conflicts). Waterboarding is also an assault, and thus violates the federal assault statute, 18 U.S.C. � 113"
"Waterboarding is torture. It causes severe physical suffering in the form of reflexive choking, gagging, and the feeling of suffocation ... If uninterrupted, waterboarding will cause death by suffocation. It is also foreseeable that waterboarding, by producing an experience of drowning, will cause severe mental pain and suffering. The technique is a form of mock execution by suffocation with water. The process incapacitates the victim from drawing breath, and causes panic, distress, and terror of imminent death. Many victims of waterboarding suffer prolonged mental harm for years and even decades afterward."
Take Care!
Comments continue below
Gitano | 6:42 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
I'm a Utahn. I am independant in my approach to the political circus in
our country. I am tired of Republicans and Democrats. What I would like to see
is a candidate who really cares; is not "bought" by anyone; who has
the guts to function regardless of polls; and who is tough--someone like T.
Roosevelt or H. Truman. They did what was right because it WAS right. And,
they both let the buck stop with them.
Who, amoung the candidates today, meets those standards? No one with whom I am familiar.
God bless America if any of the men/women currently running win.
Who, amoung the candidates today, meets those standards? No one with whom I am familiar.
God bless America if any of the men/women currently running win.
Thank you | 6:44 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
TYLER @5:22. Well put, I couldn't agree more. President Bush makes
mistakes like anyone else but has stood by the same convictions that got him
voted in the first place and now he's made out to be the worst president
ever. He's been rock-solid and stood behind his policy from the start
instead of flip-flopping like Hilary, et al.
Too many people out there are too intent on finding someone or something to blame for everything instead of taking any responsibility for thei own problems. Pres. Bush has made mistakes and admits as much but at least remains committed to the cause and tries his best.
Mitt, I believe will do the same.
Those that flip-flop about their support of the president are the same kind of folk that booed Giri last night. Quit waffling, be positive and supportive of those that you elected into office.
Too many people out there are too intent on finding someone or something to blame for everything instead of taking any responsibility for thei own problems. Pres. Bush has made mistakes and admits as much but at least remains committed to the cause and tries his best.
Mitt, I believe will do the same.
Those that flip-flop about their support of the president are the same kind of folk that booed Giri last night. Quit waffling, be positive and supportive of those that you elected into office.
grateful heart | 6:52 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
I would just like to take the time to say a big thanks to Mitt for being a good
example of the Mormon people. He is well-spoken and a very pleasant person.
Whatever happens in this campaign, I will support Mitt the best I can and I will try to contribute donations to his cause as much as I can.
Whatever happens in this campaign, I will support Mitt the best I can and I will try to contribute donations to his cause as much as I can.
Thumbs down! | 7:37 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
Huckabee 31; Romney 23; Thompson 13; McCain 12
Mark a Utahn in Louisiana | 8:12 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
Mitt...I'm disappointed that the Iowa evangelicals "waisted"
their vote tonight on a man like Huckabee who has NO chance in winning the
nomination, let alone the general electino...I'm not messing around
anymore..I'm sending you a check tonight Mitt to show my support...no more
just watching things unfold...I'm in full support of you and I'm going
to start talking w/ my wallet...and yes, I am Mormon...and yes, I am Christian.
Mitt's got my support | 8:52 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
Mitt, I could not decide for a very long time who I would vote for. I knew who
I wouldn't vote for a lot easier. Sometimes you come across too slick for
me, like when you ran the Olympics. I was not gung-ho about jumping on your
support wagon when you decided to run for President. But it was after your now
famous speech, maybe the greatest speech on true religious liberty and tolerance
ever given, that I finally decided you were my man. I have dear Evangelical
friends who will not support you just because you are a Mormon. I love them
anyway. I would not support you just because I AM a Mormon. But since I had
the chance to hear you live, unedited by media bias, I FELT your "change of
heart" was true and real...mine toward you is too. If you do become
President you will have the hardest job known to mankind. My prayers and
support are with our current President who takes all the heat the world can
throw him and still stands at the end of the day. God Bless America and God
bless you Mitt...win or lose.
sandman5 | 10:01 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
I wonder if any of these bigots would vote for Mitt if he were on the ticket
with say, Rudy? A proven leader, a moral man. GO MITT who cares anyway about
the 50000 people in IOWA. There are more people in Orange County than in the
entire state. Frankly, too much emphasis on a tiny little place that truly
should be flyover country. Make it to super tuesday and we'll see who
get's it then.
der Altekrieger | 10:19 p.m. Jan. 3, 2008
re: dglarsen's comment:
dglarsen hit it right on the head: Mormonism, more accurately church members living in Utah, must stop making second class citizens of people who aren't church members.
As an active convert who has lived a great deal out of this state, I have found most people's emnity towards the Mormon Church is not towards it's religious dogma, it's mostly directed towards the behavior of its members.
Thus, Mitt will suffer in the polls.
When Utahs LDS faithful can learn to accept others of differing faiths and lifestyles, people will be more willing to accept an LDS candidate for president.
dglarsen hit it right on the head: Mormonism, more accurately church members living in Utah, must stop making second class citizens of people who aren't church members.
As an active convert who has lived a great deal out of this state, I have found most people's emnity towards the Mormon Church is not towards it's religious dogma, it's mostly directed towards the behavior of its members.
Thus, Mitt will suffer in the polls.
When Utahs LDS faithful can learn to accept others of differing faiths and lifestyles, people will be more willing to accept an LDS candidate for president.
bad labeling | 6:26 a.m. Jan. 4, 2008
Some Mormons (not all of them) who attempt to second-class-citizen-ize people
outside the Zion Curtain exists in their deluded minds only. Lets face it - to
think a person is better than their neighbor because they don't drink
coffee is not only childish but deluded as well.
If I live to be a hundred, I don't think there will be a Mormon alive who will ever admit that labeling those outside their group as an "abomination" is an exemplary way to peace and brotherhood in a community.
If I live to be a hundred, I don't think there will be a Mormon alive who will ever admit that labeling those outside their group as an "abomination" is an exemplary way to peace and brotherhood in a community.
oh brother | 8:52 a.m. Jan. 4, 2008
People, people, the argument that Mormons, especially in Utah, can't accept
people of other faiths is as bigoted as the feelings Mormons often get from
Evangelicals saying they aren't Christian.
Huckabee doesn't accept my Christianity and has put down my faith through out the past several weeks of his campaign. Romney, in his amazing speech, showed great love and tolerance for ALL religions, just as most Mormons I know are capable of.
Sure there are those Mormons that can't see the good in others because they drink coffee or whatever, but you find that among people of all faiths and among athiests and agnostics, so what is your point here in once again throwing all of us Utah Mormons into a "Zion curtain" or saying that we can't accept people outside of our faith?
I personally know many wonderful, people who drink coffee, tea, and...oh my goodness...Alchohol, and I'm a Mormon who loves them...and I live in Utah.
If you're going to vote for a President for his religious tolerance, the better man is Romney. But there is far more criteria in voting for a President than what church he belongs to or likes...unless of course you're Romney.
Huckabee doesn't accept my Christianity and has put down my faith through out the past several weeks of his campaign. Romney, in his amazing speech, showed great love and tolerance for ALL religions, just as most Mormons I know are capable of.
Sure there are those Mormons that can't see the good in others because they drink coffee or whatever, but you find that among people of all faiths and among athiests and agnostics, so what is your point here in once again throwing all of us Utah Mormons into a "Zion curtain" or saying that we can't accept people outside of our faith?
I personally know many wonderful, people who drink coffee, tea, and...oh my goodness...Alchohol, and I'm a Mormon who loves them...and I live in Utah.
If you're going to vote for a President for his religious tolerance, the better man is Romney. But there is far more criteria in voting for a President than what church he belongs to or likes...unless of course you're Romney.
Alex | 9:46 a.m. Jan. 4, 2008
Reader in Denver - Of course I've heard that phrase. Have you ever heard
"you don't know the first thing about me?" Because that's
where we're at. You don't know jack about me, and I'm not tossed
"to and fro with every wind of political doctrine and have no steering
mechanism in [my] value system." You base this off of a handful of posts
about torture? Again, you don't know the first thing about me. Ask me about
my views on abortion or same-sex marriage. See if you think I'm such a
"liberal" then. Moreover, you have no right to tell me how my value
system works. Just because it doesn't match up perfectly in line with
yours, it doesn't make it wrong. People like you are the reason I have
become more liberal-minded.
hard to swallow | 11:33 a.m. Jan. 4, 2008
Until somebody comes up with a revelation that religions that aren't Mormon
are not "an abomination" - I think it will be difficult to believe LDS
people like "oh brother" are not bigoted and close-minded.
liberal by nature | 12:04 p.m. Jan. 4, 2008
Dear Alex -
All of us are liberal by nature. But then something happens to certain people (usually at a young age) that makes them unhappy, sometimes for the rest of their lives.
From Webster:
Liberal- "belonging to the people; free; not restricted; giving freely; generous; not strict; tolerant of views differing from one's own; broad-minded; favoring change or reform; progressive
I would take being called "liberal" as a compliment.
But I am quite sure "Reader in Denver" has a "new and improved" Rush Limbaugh definition for us.
All of us are liberal by nature. But then something happens to certain people (usually at a young age) that makes them unhappy, sometimes for the rest of their lives.
From Webster:
Liberal- "belonging to the people; free; not restricted; giving freely; generous; not strict; tolerant of views differing from one's own; broad-minded; favoring change or reform; progressive
I would take being called "liberal" as a compliment.
But I am quite sure "Reader in Denver" has a "new and improved" Rush Limbaugh definition for us.
Alex | 1:35 p.m. Jan. 4, 2008
Liberal by Nature - I do appreciate that. I'm not taking RiC's
comments as offensive, rather than saying he has no right to assume knowing a
thing about me. But again, thank you.
Anonymous | 2:23 p.m. Jan. 4, 2008
Alex -
There is a pandemic of Right is right thinking today. And when encountering the closed mind you might as well step outside, find the nearest tree and bang your head against it rather than think you can offer them anything.
There is a pandemic of Right is right thinking today. And when encountering the closed mind you might as well step outside, find the nearest tree and bang your head against it rather than think you can offer them anything.
Alex | 4:07 p.m. Jan. 4, 2008
Anonymous 2:23 - Ha ha ha, thanks! I'll keep that in mind.
Mitt My MAN | 1:06 a.m. Jan. 5, 2008
VOTE FOR MR. MITT ROMNEY!! OUR CANDIDATE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA!!!!
Stop spreading lies about this great man of ours. I will defend Mr. Mitt Romney forever. I could just see how adulterous malicious people will get a piece of what Mr. Romney will say and malign it and spread lies about it. I can tell a liar just by their vulgar choice of language. Mr. Romney has the highest standard of all candidates. VOTE FOR HIM!!
Stop spreading lies about this great man of ours. I will defend Mr. Mitt Romney forever. I could just see how adulterous malicious people will get a piece of what Mr. Romney will say and malign it and spread lies about it. I can tell a liar just by their vulgar choice of language. Mr. Romney has the highest standard of all candidates. VOTE FOR HIM!!
Anonymous | 10:03 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
Mitt Romney is the biggest liar of any presidential that has ever lived.
liar Romney | 10:05 a.m. Jan. 6, 2008
"My friend, you can spend your whole fortune on these attack ads, but it
still won't be true," McCain told his chief competitor Saturday night,
taking issue with Romney's characterization of the Arizona senator's
immigration plan as amnesty.
"I don't describe your plan as amnesty in my ad, I don't call it amnesty," Romney shot back � even though two of his TV commercials use the term, including on that says McCain "wrote the amnesty bill that America rejected."
On Sunday, Romney acknowledged: "I was incorrect."
Romney gets caught lying once again.
"I don't describe your plan as amnesty in my ad, I don't call it amnesty," Romney shot back � even though two of his TV commercials use the term, including on that says McCain "wrote the amnesty bill that America rejected."
On Sunday, Romney acknowledged: "I was incorrect."
Romney gets caught lying once again.
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Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney appeals for voter support in Cedar Rapids on Wednesday.
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You forgot quotation 101 and that it to cite your source. Just because you quote something does not make it so.
Cite your sources and I will give them a look. I prefaced what I said based upon what I have heard and read. I can be convinced otherwise, but right now I am not there. I do a lot of work with the military and when I have broached this subject to a few of my friends they simply disagree and they are in a much better position to judge this than I.