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Jazz notes: Giricek, Jazz officials to meet this morning
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Jimmy's Sneakers | 7:00 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Jimmy predicts that Giri and Sloan will kiss and make up for the time being
realizing that it is in both of their best interests to play nice so that Giri
can be dealt before the trade deadline.
PeanutY | 7:30 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
There is no doubt that Gira is a very talented player who can score in spurts
when he is on. So, what is the problem? Jerry Sloan can't make him feel
comfortable with his role.
There is no question that the Jazz have talented players that could benefit by a pat on the back rather than repeated kicks in the pants. Note the difference in Kirilenko this year. Sloan does not know how to compliment a player - he is never satisfied. He may be a great coach, but he does not how to relate to, or handle people.
Is it time for Sloan to go? I think the majority of the Jazz fans believe so. Who should replace him? That's a good question. I believe Jeff Hornacek would be ideal if he would accept. He has the image the Jazz need and good relationships with players. He puts his family first and that might interfere with coaching the Jazz.
If someone needs to go, it's Sloan, not Gira. The Jazz should explore with Hornacek the possibility of taking over the coaching duties and let Jerry put on his John Deere hat and head into the sunset!
There is no question that the Jazz have talented players that could benefit by a pat on the back rather than repeated kicks in the pants. Note the difference in Kirilenko this year. Sloan does not know how to compliment a player - he is never satisfied. He may be a great coach, but he does not how to relate to, or handle people.
Is it time for Sloan to go? I think the majority of the Jazz fans believe so. Who should replace him? That's a good question. I believe Jeff Hornacek would be ideal if he would accept. He has the image the Jazz need and good relationships with players. He puts his family first and that might interfere with coaching the Jazz.
If someone needs to go, it's Sloan, not Gira. The Jazz should explore with Hornacek the possibility of taking over the coaching duties and let Jerry put on his John Deere hat and head into the sunset!
Comments continue below
Bazooka | 7:43 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
I say let Miles have the backup two guard position. He's largely playing
within the offense, and he's doing say effectively. He's still young,
and will tend to have ups and downs as the season progresses, but he's
shown to be more effective lately than Giri has at any point this season.
I like Giri, but I don't see Miles developing with this constant shifting of game playing status that's plagued all the two guards since Bell left. We know what Giri can do, he's below average on defense, has a better than average jump shot moving toward the basket, he doesn't set hard screens, doesn't play well without the ball, is a fair to partly cloudy three point shooter, and lacks consistency on all the above. Miles shows better promise for the future, but the Jazz will never see it if they don't remove the temptation for Sloan to shake up the rotation every time a guy makes a mistake. May be Giri would play better if he weren't looking over his shoulder all the time, but I can see that Miles does. Sorry Giri, but I wouldn't mind seeing you go to a good situation somewhere else.
I like Giri, but I don't see Miles developing with this constant shifting of game playing status that's plagued all the two guards since Bell left. We know what Giri can do, he's below average on defense, has a better than average jump shot moving toward the basket, he doesn't set hard screens, doesn't play well without the ball, is a fair to partly cloudy three point shooter, and lacks consistency on all the above. Miles shows better promise for the future, but the Jazz will never see it if they don't remove the temptation for Sloan to shake up the rotation every time a guy makes a mistake. May be Giri would play better if he weren't looking over his shoulder all the time, but I can see that Miles does. Sorry Giri, but I wouldn't mind seeing you go to a good situation somewhere else.
Send Gira packing | 8:30 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
I can't believe all the people defending Gordon Giricek, all the while
proclaiming their disdain for Jerry Sloan. I'm sorry if all of you
can't handle a coach who is tough and expects perfection. It was mentioned
that Coach Sloan never seems to be satisfied, I would hope not. The minute a
coach becomes satisfied is the minute his team stops progressing. By demanding
perfection Sloan is demanding that his team progresses everyday.
Gira, has been inconsistant at best since he has been with the Jazz. He is very much like Greg Ostertag, very rarely doing much to help the team, but he does have his moments. It seems some of the Utah Jazz faithful liked Ostertag even though he was mediocre at best and now Gira. I guess the Jazz faithfull have fallen in love with mediocrity. Gira doesn't care about the team, he cares about his stats only. Time has come to send Gira packing.
Gira, has been inconsistant at best since he has been with the Jazz. He is very much like Greg Ostertag, very rarely doing much to help the team, but he does have his moments. It seems some of the Utah Jazz faithful liked Ostertag even though he was mediocre at best and now Gira. I guess the Jazz faithfull have fallen in love with mediocrity. Gira doesn't care about the team, he cares about his stats only. Time has come to send Gira packing.
ID Jazz | 9:17 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
RE:Send Gira Packing A good coach demands and demeans his players. A great coach
shows and teaches his players. We all know how Sloan has been. You can't
really say that during Stockton and Malone era that he had to coach because
those two were smarter than he was and ran the teams the way they wanted to and
taught there team mates what to do. With this group he has to coach and it is
frustrating for him because demanding and screaming is not getting it done. Can
Sloan Coach? Absolutely he can, but he has to change his attitude and philosophy
with such a young team. They need direction not retribution from him. I still
think he is a great coach and I want him to stay but he needs to reevaluate and
see if what he is doing is working. As far as falling in love with mediocrity
goes what do you expect from us fans when management does nothing to upgrade
this team and we have had only two finals appearances in 20 years. Management
has made us the King of it.
BT | 9:20 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Of what he (Send Gira Packing) mentioned is right. Also, the fans always
mentions that Sloan never gives our young players a chance, well since the
incident happened, I believe that Sloan was wishing that someone would step up
and I feel CJ who is one of our young talents is stepping up and I believe that
coach Sloans wishes are coming true.
Have you personally | 9:21 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
talked with Giricek? Do you really think he only cares about stats? Give me a
break. He's a shooter so of course he's looking to shoot the ball.
He gets in trouble because he doesn't understand what Sloan wants from him.
Who else are we going to let roam the 3 point line? There are only 2 or 3
players on the entire team who have the ability to consistently knock down a 3
point shot and Giricek is one of them. I don't see why the Jazz can't
play him 15-20 minutes a game and let him take a few 3s. With the way other
teams shoot 3 pointers against the Jazz, it would be nice to have another
outside threat, but the way things are looking he will probably be sent packing
and a team like San Antonio or Phoenix will pick him up and have yet another
player who will kill the Jazz from the outside.
J. Smith | 9:43 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
He (Send Gira Packing) is correct. Those of you who think Gira is someone who
can shoot 3's consitently are also correct. He does shoot them
consistently, what he doesn't do is make them consistently.
ID Jazz - if these overpaid babies can't do what Sloan asks of them then they need to rethink their choice of occupation. Gira has been in the Jazz system for what 4 years or more probably 5 or 6 years, he has been to numerous practices and that is where the teaching takes place. I doubt Sloan does as much yelling at players in practices and he and his assistants teach. But, out on the floor, during a game what they practice needs to be executed properly in order for the Jazz to do well. If you watch Gira what you will find is someone who wants to prove he is a tough defender so he goes one on one. Often he finds himself out of position to give proper help defense and play good solid team defense. Same thing goes offensively. He is often out of position because he wants to shoot. He doesn't want to play with in the team system.
ID Jazz - if these overpaid babies can't do what Sloan asks of them then they need to rethink their choice of occupation. Gira has been in the Jazz system for what 4 years or more probably 5 or 6 years, he has been to numerous practices and that is where the teaching takes place. I doubt Sloan does as much yelling at players in practices and he and his assistants teach. But, out on the floor, during a game what they practice needs to be executed properly in order for the Jazz to do well. If you watch Gira what you will find is someone who wants to prove he is a tough defender so he goes one on one. Often he finds himself out of position to give proper help defense and play good solid team defense. Same thing goes offensively. He is often out of position because he wants to shoot. He doesn't want to play with in the team system.
PBH | 9:54 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
If Giricek really cared about the team, then he would simply play within the
offense and do as he is asked by Sloan, wouldn't he? Is he really that
good that the coach needs to cater to him, to just let him play outside the
offense? There are only a few players that are good enough to allow that to
happen (Kobe, Wade, Anthony), and even they are more effective when they stay
within an offense. It's very simple for Giri, play within the offense,
show some effort on defense, and you get your 15-20 minutes per game. Andre
learned his lesson and look how well he is playing now for the most part.
No D | 9:54 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Gira would get 12 to 15 minutes a game if he played some D. He's an easy
pick, plays soft and it doesn't bode well for an NBA player trying to get
time on a contender caliber team. Once Almond gets out of the D league and gets
some confidence, he will get playing time. If he can't play defense, he
will end up like Gira. Look at Brewer. He's not a great shooter, but
he's productive with steals, changing shots and plays a team game.
He's not getting sent home either.
Sloan doesn't do a lot for building a players confidence because a player has to earn or build that confidence from within. That way they will have it when it really counts.
Sloan doesn't do a lot for building a players confidence because a player has to earn or build that confidence from within. That way they will have it when it really counts.
mark | 9:59 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
The game has changed so much that sloan cant handel todays players. Yes his
style works only for awhile and a few players. The Jazz will never be consistant
with OLD IRONSIDES.
homeytennis | 10:15 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
There are quite a few players in the DLeague who would love to play for the Jazz
at the two and they appear to have better shooting stats than Gira.
ARRGH | 10:20 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
GIRI FACTS:
Scoring:
Before coming to Jazz: 12 PPG
After coming to Jazz: 9 PPG
Assists:
Before coming to Jazz: 1.8 APG(too low for a 2 guard)
After coming to Jazz: 1.4 APG
Minutes:
Before coming to Jazz: 30 MPG
After coming to Jazz: 20 MPG
3 Point %:
Before coming to Jazz: .363
After coming to Jazz: .300
Basically he has not improved in any category. This is what irks me most. Today, I see the same player that in '03 did not know how to work in the Jazz system because he was newly traded. For this continued mediocrity there is no excuse that Giri, or his supporters, can give other than selfishness or an inability to learn.
When you are beaten out of minutes by a second year player and a 20 year old there has to be action. And remember this: C.J. was deep in Sloan's doghouse and now has minutes. Why? Probably because he now works within the system. Giri is no Kobe, or LeBron, or TMac. He cannot go 1 on 1 with anyone..he needs the system yet fights it.
Scoring:
Before coming to Jazz: 12 PPG
After coming to Jazz: 9 PPG
Assists:
Before coming to Jazz: 1.8 APG(too low for a 2 guard)
After coming to Jazz: 1.4 APG
Minutes:
Before coming to Jazz: 30 MPG
After coming to Jazz: 20 MPG
3 Point %:
Before coming to Jazz: .363
After coming to Jazz: .300
Basically he has not improved in any category. This is what irks me most. Today, I see the same player that in '03 did not know how to work in the Jazz system because he was newly traded. For this continued mediocrity there is no excuse that Giri, or his supporters, can give other than selfishness or an inability to learn.
When you are beaten out of minutes by a second year player and a 20 year old there has to be action. And remember this: C.J. was deep in Sloan's doghouse and now has minutes. Why? Probably because he now works within the system. Giri is no Kobe, or LeBron, or TMac. He cannot go 1 on 1 with anyone..he needs the system yet fights it.
Fishman | 10:20 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Sloan needs to retire. The guy is a dinosaur who has no coaching ability on the
personal level. We need a coach that can reach and communicate with players
instead of simply carrying a heavy stick.
Here we have our most consistent outside shooter sent packing home for NO LEGITIMATE REASON while teams zone us to death in the 4th. Personal grudges should never cost us games, and Sloan's grudge against Giricek has done that.
Here we have our most consistent outside shooter sent packing home for NO LEGITIMATE REASON while teams zone us to death in the 4th. Personal grudges should never cost us games, and Sloan's grudge against Giricek has done that.
Jaxx Observer | 10:21 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Jerry Sloan has proven he can coach. But, in 20 seasons we can see his flaws
too. It seems once a player gets on his bad side, that's it, there's
no reconciliation. Greg Ostertag was a journeyman center who spent most of his
career with the Jaxx and in Jerry's dog house. However, with Ostertag, I
doubt Utah could have made it past the Lakers and Rockets to two NBA finals. He
handled the defensive dirty work inside while Stockton, Malone and Hornacek
provided the offense. In Ostertag's final game--at home-- the Jazz were
out of the playoffs, how does Sloan say thanks for all of Greg's years of
loyal play with his team? Does he start Ostertag in the final game of his
career? No.. he comes off the bench and plays under 15 minutes for the game.
Nice guy, Jerry Sloan. The difference between Gordon Giracek and Jeff Hornacek
is John Stockton. If Gira goes to Pheonix, he'll be in a system and play
with a point guard that will allow him to be a double figures scorer
consistently.
Re: Observer | 11:09 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Jerry gives players as much sympathy as he got. He wasn't the most
talented, and he made the best of it. Anyone who's ever played a sport
knows how annoying it is to be the hardest worker and see talented low-lifes
doing nothing. While Osterfat may have worked hard in certain playoff series he
did not deserve Jerry's respect, and did not care enough to earn it. He was
being paid huge amounts of money, and I'm sure Jerry figured that was
enough compensation for him.
Kirlinkio was in the doghouse, now he's not. Brewer was in it, now he's not. Miles appears that he may be leaving the doghouse, only time will tell.
All you have to do to leave the doghouse, is to work hard and play well.
Kirlinkio was in the doghouse, now he's not. Brewer was in it, now he's not. Miles appears that he may be leaving the doghouse, only time will tell.
All you have to do to leave the doghouse, is to work hard and play well.
rowe | 11:11 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
+1 to homeytennis.
let almond light them up!!!!!!
let almond light them up!!!!!!
Moto X | 11:13 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Giri shot .426% from 3pt range last year. Last season THAT WOULD HAVE MADE HIM
11TH BEST IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE!!! He unfortunately just missed the necessary
amount of 3pt shot attempts to be included in the overall ranking. Yes I know
his percentage might drop some with more attempts but he was very close to
making the threshold so this is fairly representative of his capability.
That tells me 2 things: 1. Giri can shoot the deep ball 2. He can shoot while Jerry is the coach.
All this either or crap is a wasted discussion. Lets deal in reality.
Giri needs to suck it up, play within the offense, stop traveling every time he puts the ball on the floor, and play hard on D. Sloan needs to run some plays to get Giri his 3's because he is one of the best 3 point shooters not just on our team but in the league if given the opportunity. Both have some blame here. Rarely is it all ones fault like so many try to make it out to be.
I also believe he would shoot the lights out from 3 given the green light on another team.
That tells me 2 things: 1. Giri can shoot the deep ball 2. He can shoot while Jerry is the coach.
All this either or crap is a wasted discussion. Lets deal in reality.
Giri needs to suck it up, play within the offense, stop traveling every time he puts the ball on the floor, and play hard on D. Sloan needs to run some plays to get Giri his 3's because he is one of the best 3 point shooters not just on our team but in the league if given the opportunity. Both have some blame here. Rarely is it all ones fault like so many try to make it out to be.
I also believe he would shoot the lights out from 3 given the green light on another team.
J. Smith | 11:21 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Listen folks Gordon Giricek is not going to be a consistent double digit scorer
these days in any system especially not Phoenix. Who would he replace in
phoenix Raja Bell- good luck with that. The only reason San Antonio and Phoenix
would want Gordon is it could help them out with their salary cap problems at
the end of the season. Neither team would be looking to re-sign him.
He'll be playing a second or third role on most teams in this league and
maybe a starting role on a couple of the bottom feeders of the league.
Midwest Jazz Fan | 11:26 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Who cares if Giri shoots a decent percentage from 3 point land? He can't
defend anyone and makes stupid decisions - the Jazz are better off without him.
Admittedly, the Jazz don't shoot it well from distance, but that is not the
only flaw.
To all those Sloan haters - please tell me one player who who the Jazz traded away that has done anything in this league. Recently Humphreys, Stephenson, and Snyder come to mind. Their teams are getting nothing out of them in comparison to their salaries. The Jazz have a sound, solid system based on players working on both ends. Listen to former coaches and people who know the game - they sing Sloan's praises. If today's NBA player can't work on both ends and put up with getting yelled at by a coach, he shouldn't be making millions of dollars a year.
To all those Sloan haters - please tell me one player who who the Jazz traded away that has done anything in this league. Recently Humphreys, Stephenson, and Snyder come to mind. Their teams are getting nothing out of them in comparison to their salaries. The Jazz have a sound, solid system based on players working on both ends. Listen to former coaches and people who know the game - they sing Sloan's praises. If today's NBA player can't work on both ends and put up with getting yelled at by a coach, he shouldn't be making millions of dollars a year.
J. Smith | 11:32 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Re: Moto X - Big deal Gira was a 42.6% 3pt shooter last year. His career
average is right around 35%. There is absolutely nothing that demonstrates his
percentage would stay around that 42% if given more of a chance to shoot.
Jerry hates the 3 ball. Rightly so- because most the time it is too risky. Why shoot the three when you could get a better shot and possibly go to the free throw line if you just play with in the system. Part of Gira's problem is he shoots too quickly, instead of letting the offense get set and run the way it needs to be.
Jerry hates the 3 ball. Rightly so- because most the time it is too risky. Why shoot the three when you could get a better shot and possibly go to the free throw line if you just play with in the system. Part of Gira's problem is he shoots too quickly, instead of letting the offense get set and run the way it needs to be.
Steve | 11:56 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Is Sloan God, something divine, or the greatest being to hit the Earth? His
buddy Larry Miller seems to think so. I think Miller has blinders on when it
comes to Sloan and needs to remove them. If this were the NFL Sloan
would've been fired a couple years ago when we went through that 2 or 3
season slump. But reprimanding or firing Sloan would NEVER enter Larry
Miller's mind... because to him Sloan walks on watter.
Why is Sloan always right and the players who are "disgruntled" always wrong??
Why is Sloan always right and the players who are "disgruntled" always wrong??
page | 11:58 a.m. Dec. 27, 2007
i can tell you this i know that dwill does not like him every time he passes the
ball to him he tries to drive to the basket i think he is scared to shoot i
wonder why slone.one other point what did they think they were getting when they
got him?
YF | 12:03 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007
You might have a point J Smith, but more often than not, the 2nd team usually
dribbles the ball around for 20 seconds then launches up a brick with the shot
clock winding down... that is if they don't manage to turn the ball over
before that.
A insightful coach would give Giricek the green light instead of continuing to bang a sqare peg into a round hole.
The 'hard workers' like Hart, Collins, Millsap, and a old-hobbled Harpring on the second unit just don't have the talent to find a better shot than Giri's. It's that simple.
A insightful coach would give Giricek the green light instead of continuing to bang a sqare peg into a round hole.
The 'hard workers' like Hart, Collins, Millsap, and a old-hobbled Harpring on the second unit just don't have the talent to find a better shot than Giri's. It's that simple.
J. Smith | 12:16 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Re: Steve - Because these players have nothing to be disgruntled about
especially Gira. Sloan hasn't done anything wrong by all these players.
They need to shutup and play ball. Maybe if Gira would work hard and stop
complaining about playing time he might be given more of a shot. C.J. has
worked hard and the past few games we have seen the work pay off. Look at
Andrei. He has worked alot harder this season then he did last seasn and look
at his production it is way up. I think in the last couple weeks he is
something like 8 of 14 on 3's.
Stop making excuses for these players, don't feel sorry for them they have no reason to be upset.
Stop making excuses for these players, don't feel sorry for them they have no reason to be upset.
Steve - Re: J. Smith | 12:27 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007
How do you know the players don't have a reason to be upset or dislike
Sloan? I really think it's time for Sloan to move on and for the Jazz to
get a coach who can handle the younger players better. This is a sports team,
not boot camp. Larry Miller needs to put a little more professional distance
between himself and the coach of his team, whoever it may be.
josh | 12:34 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007
bye gordon, CJ and mo almond will make sure you aren't missed.
J. Smith | 1:12 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Come on, what real reason could there be for these players to be disgruntled.
They are paid millions of dollars to play a game. Yes Sloan might get after
them, yell at them, and cuss them out, it's part of the game. Dwill,
Ronnie, Memo, Carlos, C.J. and Paul all get treated the same way when they are
not executing or performing the way they need to. The difference is they put in
the work. They want to get better, and they want to be a great team. Gordon
doesn't. You can tell this from his body language during games. Most of
what he does disrupts the flow of the game and the offense. Some of you folks
on here really need to learn the game of basketball and watch the games. How
did Ronnie get better he works at it and he works at doing the right things with
in the team structure. I very seldom have seen work at staying with in the team
system.
I don't get it!! | 1:38 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007
I'm not certain if I understand why Giri is in the dog house. He seems to
knock down shots when we need him too, and in some cases when no one else can
hit a shot. The defense at that position has always been difficult for the
Jazz. We have never had a guy that can guard the likes of Kobe. Matter of
fact, does any team have a guy that can guard Kobe. This may not be the issue,
but, Sloan seems to struggle with young players. Their confidence is often
times rattled, leaving the Jazz no choice but to trade them. I also see Jerry
panic some times. Last year we didn't have a consistent starter, and we
were left with an undersized, aged Derek Fisher. Sloan seems to have a pattern
for raising young guards, (i.e. Derron) but this pattern may not work for some.
Rich | 5:32 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007
Giri is in the dog house because he takes quick shots out of the offense and he
doesn't hustle enough on defense. And then he did the almost unpardonable
-- talked back to his coach, and not just any coach, mind you, but one who has
more power and independence than 90% of the other coaches in the league, one who
has consistently won with mostly mediocre talent and one who demands from his
players the same hustle and determination and doggedness that he displayed when
he once played. You can't win with just offense, especially perimeter
offense. The Jazz don't need Giri anymore. But they definitely need
Sloan. He will go down in history as one of the greatest basketball coaches in
the NBA. And don't tell me he can't learn -- he has adjusted as the
NBA has evolved, both in rules and talent level. I expect the Jazz to lose a
few games this year because they're still young and developing. Getting
rid of Giri will give the youngsters some important experience. They'll be
better by playoff time, I'm certain.
Zarcho | 4:10 a.m. Dec. 28, 2007
Some of these comments are pretty stupid. The one about how Malone and Stockton
were "smarter than Sloan" particularly; no one would ever accuse
Malone of being a genius, and Stockton (certainly brilliant) looked to Sloan for
the play EVERY TIME DOWN THE FLOOR. They were smart enough to be coached.
Giri just seems to lack the heart to be more than a fair player. He's a streaky shooter; he's porous on defense (compare Giri to what Fisher was doing last year, with Giri having greater size and wingspan); and he's talking back to a hall-of-fame coach.
Giri just seems to lack the heart to be more than a fair player. He's a streaky shooter; he's porous on defense (compare Giri to what Fisher was doing last year, with Giri having greater size and wingspan); and he's talking back to a hall-of-fame coach.
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Because he's not a bad apple. Giri does what he does, and those teams would love to have him doing what he does on their team.
So why can't Sloan send Giri in and let him shoot 2-3 jumpers every game and see if his outside jumper is on, and then if it is let him stretch the defense for 12-15 points. This won't happen every game, and when he's not on sit him down and try him next game. Every contending team loves to have a guy who can knock down shots, and sloans trying to run this guy off.
It's too bad that SlowN can't figure it out.