Deseret News | Reader comments: Inmate sues for Norse god worship

Reader comments
Inmate sues for Norse god worship

Beppa | 9:22 a.m. Dec. 20, 2007

I have respect for anyone who wants to have the rights for their religious beliefs. I also have been told that when you become an inmate, you lose all rights, including the right to religious freedoms. You can't vote, you can not ask for things that would hurt you or others. Religion is in the heart and minds and can pursued in that way. A silent prayer, a walk thru being of the mind of following said rituals. I think if you are in a prison you made choices that brought you to that haven, therefore, I think you can mentally go through all the rituals of what you believe, God knows the heart and desires of men, I think the inmate at that point needs to get "real" and just do what he needs to do to by means of thought to meet his religious needs. No one can control or take that part of your religious needs away. I think having a child in the system in California I speak with some experience. You do the crime, you do the time... the States way, they own you but not your mind..stop your excuses and do your time.

Andrew | 1:34 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007

As a practicing asatruar I have to say that about half of his list is completely unnessicary. The only thing needed for the central asatru ritual is a cup of some sort, that cup is often a mead horn, the ritual involves a libation to the Gods. I have never seen a ritual that required a sword, or staff, and only a few that I'm aware require use of a drum.

RangerGordon | 1:53 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007

I'm surprised that Asatru isn't already a recognized religion at the prison.

Andrew: From what I understand, policies allowing holy texts for prisoners--e.g. Bibles for Christians and copies of the Book of Mormon for Latter-day Saints--are often interpreted as allowing runes for followers of Asatru.

Allowing the ritual sword would be crazy, though ...

Comments continue below

Grumpy Godi | 1:55 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007

When suing, always ask for more than you expect to get. Ask Valgard Murray about swords. Tyr blots, etc. find them useful. This guy will win, but its unfortunate that we have to sue the government to get the rights which should already be ours. Parity is all most prison religious activists ask for. Nothing more, nothing less!

Hail the Ancestors!

Thor | 3:19 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007

If the man requires a hammer, let him have a little one to hang around his neck. If the man requires a cloth, let him use a towel. If the man requires a sword, give hime one of those little sandwich swords. If the man requires a drum, tell him to draw a circle on his belly and smack it with his hands.

If the man requires a vampiress...well, I can't help you there.

But let the man have as many holy books as he wants.

Thor has spoken.

They did allow him . . . | 5:11 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007

to have a wooden hammer around his neck. They said he can purchase a towel for an altar cloth and purchase & keep books in his cell. I think they should allow him to make a cardboard sword - or have someone make him one outside prison. There is nothing in my constitution that says I (as a taxpayer) have to pay for his religious items. This prison is not being unreasonable, he is.

Veronica from Orem | 5:20 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007

Hip, hip hooray for Michael Polk. Suing for his rights is just the thing to do. But if he loses in court they should execute him and all the other wonks that want their bugaboo religions inside their little cubicles and elsewhere in the prison. Please keep us posted on dear old Mikie's funeral.

Christopher Blackwell | 9:21 p.m. Dec. 20, 2007

Under the Religious Property Use and Institutionalized Persons ACT 2000, a federal law. he has every right to practice his religion and it is up to the prison to prove that this would affect security. If they can they can deny some things.

Everyone from the ACLU to the Religious Right supported and pressed for this law and it passed Congress unanimously and was signed into law by President Clinton in Sept. of 2000.

So far the courts have supported this law.

Agki | 2:24 a.m. Dec. 21, 2007

Veronica: "Please keep us posted on dear old Mikie's funeral."

You'll be able to see it, at least the smoke. His body will be taken to the Great Salt Lake, put on top of a pyre in a Viking long boat, and pushed out into the on fire.

Rede Seeker | 8:29 a.m. Dec. 21, 2007

I echo RangerGordon's comment - I'm surprised that Asatru isn't a recognized Belief System in the Prison System(s). There are Asatru Prison Outreach programs that should be able to provide a list of Asatru necessities and acceptable substitutes.

And like Andrew, another previous poster, in my experience as an Asatruar the only item that could be considered a 'necessity' on the inmate's list is a drinking vessel/horn.

Ultimately, the paraphenalia are props that aid the ritual, intent carries the message. It's odd that the inmate didn't include access to a Godhi to his list of essentials.

Freyjas Raven | 7:18 p.m. Dec. 21, 2007

This man has all the rights to practice his faith/religion that is something that should be well known in the state of Utah. He should also know with his being in prison, that there are things that they can not allow him to have.

What does it matter what he checked on the information papers for the prison? Many people find
faith in prison you hear of it everyday.

The facts are that this man asked for things he knew full well that he can not have under these circumstances. I think that those facts alone show that he was looking for a reason to sue the state and make a big deal about his lack of good judgement.

It is a sad day when 1 person can destroy the way a whole faith/religion is veiwed by acting like a fool.

jimmy22 | 7:47 p.m. Dec. 21, 2007

with the way they are bending over backward providing goodies for the muslim prisoners who have been killing practicers of other religions,I think the precedent has already been set.

Prism | 3:07 a.m. Dec. 22, 2007

I'm not quite sure why the prison wouldnt let someone outside bring him an altar cloth - at least a small one. As a pagan but not of norse variety I can understand wanting something more special than a towel, although i've been known to use one in a pinch.

I'ma lso not sure why a cardboard (paperboard perhaps?) sword could not be allowed.

Although I dont think anybody in prison needs a horn or that kind of drum, i'm not sure why they didnt propose substitutes either for those.

And no, I don't agree that the prison should provide them, but the opportunity for him to either recieve what i stated, or purchase it himself.

Liz | 6:53 a.m. Dec. 24, 2007

Oh please, this is yet another frivolous lawsuit by a person who should have no right to begin any kind of lawsuit whatsoever.

This wastes the court's time and taxpayer's money with this drivel.

kelly frays gothi | 4:36 p.m. Dec. 24, 2007

i am a Asatru Gothi (priest) of the oldest Asatru kindred in Utah and we had a prison outreach here in Utah for over six years but had to with draw from doing that work because of a lack of resources.

Asatru is a recognized faith in the Utah prison and none of the things he is asking for are mandatory for the practice of Asatru

all that is needed is the mind the body,the hart and to hear the call of the gods

AMERICANNORSEMAN | 6:47 p.m. Dec. 27, 2007

This is no different then a christian or muslim asking for religious items.
Now yes the sword is too extreme but as for the other requests I see no problem?
Asatru is an old religion that has been oppressed for over a thousand years but is now making a strong comeback and should be duly recognized along with christianity and muslims!

D.R. Hunter | 5:08 p.m. Dec. 31, 2007

Since religion meant the worship of God back when it was added to the Constitution.... What basis do they have that are true, that being what rights do they think they have?

A Jew, a believer in G-d, who does what he asks, knows he could not sleep in the same building as a false god image. What about a real religion rule of that? Chunk, B... junk out the door!

Christopher Blackwell | 11:01 a.m. Jan. 1, 2008

Some prison administration openly promote only one religion or even one denomination of a religion in their institutions in spite of that being illegal.

The Courts have already ruled that a prisoner does not lose his religious rights when incarcerated. Nor is it up to the government to decide what is a real religion and what is not. Now that does not mean the government must provide the items only that they cannot arbitrarily stop the person from getting. They cannot treat one religion differently that another.

The followers of Asatru could be of service, by giving the prisoner a more realistic idea of what is necessary for the practice of the religion under the restrictions of prison. Often all the Prisoner know is what he has read in a book. Prisoners often take quite literally what they read in the Religious 101 books and we know not all those books are accurate.

So the prisoner could use a reality check I am sure, but only from someone who knows what he/she is talking about

Anonymous | 5:07 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Next he will be wanting to smoke peyote as a religious ritual. Give me a break.

trsgrv | 5:27 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Ha ha ha ha!

trsgrv | 5:28 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

A sword and a hammer? Ha ha ha ha! No doubt the ACLU will be rushing to help -- and filing lawsuits over those terrible Christian bibles. How ridiculous.

shoreguyy | 8:53 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

this is all too funny ...in this age of being so litiginous is this lawsuit any real surprise ...obviously even the most liberal of judges will rule that inmates are free to practice any religion they would like but that any articles that are indiginous to their religion but pose a security threat, are allowed to be forbidden by prison authorities...this is all much ado about nothing ...

Cal | 10:47 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

First, I would like to comment about something Beppa said. He said religion is in the heart and then proceeded to tell this guy how to worship, when I seriously doubt he knows much about this religion.
I have ambivalence regarding this issue. On the one hand, even in prison, there are certain rights for the inmates, and one of them is the right to worship. I agree that this is a different religion requiring some things that just aren't allowed in prison. I do believe that he should be supplied those things that are not dangerous.
On the other hand, I do feel this guy is probably trying to take advantage of the system and doing this intentionally. It's curious he checked atheist/other when he entered prison and not until 2005 did he accept this religion.

nonie | 10:48 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

Shore guyy I agree.

Anonymous | 11:45 p.m. Jan. 10, 2008

I suppose you can't blame a guy for trying. And I can imagine using religion as a scapegoat. Many ONLY use their religious preference to impress others

Taxpayer | 8:06 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK.....

ISN'T IT LOVELY!

Anonymous | 9:07 a.m. Jan. 11, 2008

LET HIM PRACTICE THESE WHICH HE IS OBVESIOUSLY HASN'T STARTED

Nine Noble Virtues
Courage
Truth
Honor
Fidelity
Discipline
Hospitality
Industriousness
Self-Reliance
Perseverance

Joy Luk | 9:50 p.m. Jan. 19, 2008

When you become incarcerated you tend to loose your rights not get what you want because of some ruse. Practice your faith without the odd items you request and some day when you are free and re-pented your can get out and get your own toys.

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