Reader comments
Letter asks for baby Harvey back
90 comments | Read story
Steve J | 1:29 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
It seems to me if you miss the deadline, you given up your rights. If this 20
year old father really was interested in raising the baby there is no way he
would have missed the deadline. Harvey needs to stay with the Nielsons!
give the baby back | 1:49 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
its right to do
Comments continue below
Laura | 4:26 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The adoptive parents should be able to keep the baby after all of this time. The
father didn't want anything to do with the mother while she was pregnant so
he doesn't need to have anything to do with the baby now. Leave the baby
where he is.
I am an adoptee and I was raised in a very happy home. Good luck!!
I am an adoptee and I was raised in a very happy home. Good luck!!
Learn from history | 5:50 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The case of Baby Evan in Florida should give the adoptive parents in this case
pause. The Evan case was nearly identical... mother gives up child, father
contests and intervenes at urging of grandparents, court maintains custody with
adoptive parents until litigation is concluded.
Fast forward 3 1/2 years, after much litigation -- baby became a preschooler who lost his entire world at almost 4 years old when he was ripped from his family and given to biological mother, and father given visitation and adoptive family removed entirely.
He was later abused in mother's home because of his behavior (typical for a traumatized and grieving child with no bond to his biological mother)and removed from mother, and given to father.
Court documents show that child suffered from PTSD, attachment issues, regression and learning and motor skill issues brought on by the incredible trauma of losing his family and not knowing where he belonged.
Harvey is headed right down that same path...
Fast forward 3 1/2 years, after much litigation -- baby became a preschooler who lost his entire world at almost 4 years old when he was ripped from his family and given to biological mother, and father given visitation and adoptive family removed entirely.
He was later abused in mother's home because of his behavior (typical for a traumatized and grieving child with no bond to his biological mother)and removed from mother, and given to father.
Court documents show that child suffered from PTSD, attachment issues, regression and learning and motor skill issues brought on by the incredible trauma of losing his family and not knowing where he belonged.
Harvey is headed right down that same path...
Selfishness | 6:06 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Sounds to me like the grandparents are thinking more about themselves than what
is best for the baby. Not only did the 20 yr. old father miss the deadline but
how long does it take to make a decision? Did he not know that his girlfriend
was pregnant and couldn't he have made a decision about keeping the baby
before it was born and then adopted? Now we want to take this child from a
whole family who loves him and put him a in broken relationship to be shuffled
back and forth? Come on...think about the child and not yourselves!
Anonymous | 6:50 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The blame should be on the birth mother. It does not sound like she
communicated with the birth father at the time Harvey was born. How could the
deadline be less than two weeks? This is a very sad situation.
Michael R. Loveridge | 7:33 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
This whole mess is a complicated and immoral fiasco! Someone ought to write a
book, "Adoption for Dummies," and have the birth father and his
parents read it! On the "bright" side, the baby will be well-nurtured
in the arms of his selfish father (and grandparents), who absented themselves
from the baby's pregnant mother.
Jana | 7:46 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
My heart breaks for the child. All the individuals involved need to take a good
look at what is best for the child, period. They need to ask themselves where
the child will have the most stable, loving home. By stable, I include
emotional, physical, and financial stability. I beleive the birth father and
grandparents should be able to see the baby if they desire, but the child should
be returned to the adoptive parents.
Sad | 7:59 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
This is a very emotional issue. We don't know the whole story. All I could
think of reading the article was a conversation I overheard once. Four or five
boys who had been separated from their fathers at early ages because of
different family problems were talking about how much they each wanted to find
their biological father. They were sharing their ideas on how to go about
finding these men they desperately wanted to meet.
The long-term best interest of the baby should be the deciding factor here. We can only hope and pray that the decision will be made by someone with clear eyes and a kind heart.
The long-term best interest of the baby should be the deciding factor here. We can only hope and pray that the decision will be made by someone with clear eyes and a kind heart.
to: Anonymous 6:50 a.m. | 8:05 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
"The blame should be on the birth mother. It does not sound like she
communicated with the birth father at the time Harvey was born. How could the
deadline be less than two weeks?"
The guy had 9 months. He had every opportunity to NOT get her pregnant and then -- at any time -- without the birth mother's assistance or cooperation, could have filed paternity with the state.
He was in contact with her til her seventh month and then disappeared. he had plenty of chances to assert his paternity but CHOSE not to.
Time's up. They followed the law, and he abdicated responsibility.
If I were the Adoptive parents in utah, I wouldn't give the boy back either, and I'd fight a faulty Idaho ruling.
The guy had 9 months. He had every opportunity to NOT get her pregnant and then -- at any time -- without the birth mother's assistance or cooperation, could have filed paternity with the state.
He was in contact with her til her seventh month and then disappeared. he had plenty of chances to assert his paternity but CHOSE not to.
Time's up. They followed the law, and he abdicated responsibility.
If I were the Adoptive parents in utah, I wouldn't give the boy back either, and I'd fight a faulty Idaho ruling.
Texas Social Worker | 8:18 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
We just lobbied the legislature hard (and won) to create a paternal registry
down here in Texas. The whole point of the parental registry is to avoid
situations just like this (and they typically are fueled by grandparents, who
sometimes didn't do a real good job parenting the first time around, and
are looking for redemption). What's the point of a paternal registry if
judges are going to thumb their noses at it? I guess some judges don't
believe that state law is important enough to follow.
Anonymous | 8:22 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Well, if Idaho is going to give the father his rights, then he needs to
reimburse the adoptive family for all of the monies spent on this adoption and
legal battle. I think that's only fair, since he didn't file anything
in a timely manner. He knew in plenty of time what needed to be done and he
didn't. His own fault!!!!!! Idaho needs to back off and back out.
Everything was done legally and the father is just plain out of luck.
How Sad | 8:23 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
What a very sad situation. For everyone, but especially that little innocent
baby. Someone better stop and think of how this will or might affect him....
Judge Knot | 8:25 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
One judge rules he has some rights, a second judge refuses to overturn the
ruling, and a third judge grants custody based on judge #1's ruling.
BioFather signs register 23 days after Harvey makes an appearance and nobody is
talking about whether or not the little guy was carried full term. BioFather is
out of loop at 7 month stage of pregnancy and in most cases that means he is
also out of luck. Maybe BioMother breaks off communication with BioFather so he
won't know her deliver date in an attempt to foil his desire to be listed
as the BioFather and judge #1 understands this and makes an exception to the
statute's required timeframes. BioMother is clearly biased and
BioFather's not talking. But pick up them stones and let them fly anyway!
As U Wish | 8:57 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The solution is easy. Let the brith parents take care of the toddler and Jed and
Callie Nielson can adopt my 15 year old!
Anonymous | 8:58 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Did some of you not read the article? The birth mother gave the birth father
papers to sign and "he didn't sign them". He had his chance and
chose not to. Idaho judges really blew it on this one. Birth father's Mom
wants to play Gramma and is behind this fiasco. Leave the kid with the only
parents he has known, his adoptive parents.
How the judge stole christmas | 8:59 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Why can a Birth Father oppose the birthmother's wishes regarding adoption
when a birthfather can't oppose her wishes regarding an abortion?
ID Jazz | 9:06 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Being from Idaho all that I can say is how embarassed I am by the judicial
system in Idaho and the Idaho judges who have seemed to ignore the laws of the
state and ruled on feeling instead of law. If Idaho is stupid enough to give
this child back then the adoptive family needs to be compensated by the state
and the birth family for all expense of the child and court costs.
Anonymous | 9:18 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I am the grandmother of two adopted children. There is communication with 3/4
birth parents. They will never be sorry for their decision. All involved look
forward to the children being of age when they can meet. I pray that Harvey and
the Neilsons can remain a family and that someday the birth parents will be meet
the fine young man they birthed.
Think about it | 9:24 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Isn't one of the reasons the deadlines are so short after the birth is to
stop stuff like this from happening. Babies bond to their primary cargivers
quickly. To baby Harvey the Nielsons are his parents. They are the ones who
have loved and cared for him. What a rotten christmas gift for them if their
son is taken away. Hopefully this is taken care of quickly so everyone can move
on with their lives. Hopefully with the Neilsons as the rightful parents of
Harvey.
Ridiculous | 9:36 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Shame on that judge in Idaho. He is obviously not concerned with the baby's
best interest. It makes no sense to take him away from the only parents and home
he has known to give him to a kid. I'm ashamed of our court system.
suspicious | 9:58 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
When the baby was still a newborn the father made it known he wanted to parent
his child. Why would LDS social services pursue adoption when a biological
parent is able and willing to raise their child? Could it be because the
adopive parents were LDS and the father wasn't or was not active?
Protest | 10:02 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Anyone know how to get thousands to protest this judge or form a human wall in
front of their house. I'll be there.
george | 10:04 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
any sympathy for this family vanished as they have ignored the legal order
awarding custody to the Father.
It would seem the real cause of this is LDS Family Services not doing the right thing from the beginning.
It would seem the real cause of this is LDS Family Services not doing the right thing from the beginning.
re: suspicious | 10:07 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
The law is very clear about what the bio father can do to claim paternity. And
he has NINE MONTHS in which to do it.
And he was ASKED to sign for paternity and chose not to.
I am the biggest LDS basher out there, but this has nothing to do with who is and isn't Mormon.
This has to do with following the law, which the young man willingly made decisions on that put them all in this position.
And he was ASKED to sign for paternity and chose not to.
I am the biggest LDS basher out there, but this has nothing to do with who is and isn't Mormon.
This has to do with following the law, which the young man willingly made decisions on that put them all in this position.
Legal Issues | 10:17 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Suspicious: This is a legal issue. The law states that the father needs to do
certain things within a certain time frame. HE DID NOT DO IT! It has nothing to
do with religion. The birth father did not act in a timely manner as stated in
the law. Apparently, the mother went to LDS Social Services. I don't
think LDS S.S. goes out conning pregnant women into giving up their babies.
They tried to do what is best for the child. Amazingly enough, most (maybe all)
of their clients are LDS. Go figure. They did what was required of them by the
law which is the issue here.
Actually, I wonder if this is an attempt by the judge to slam the LDS church.
Actually, I wonder if this is an attempt by the judge to slam the LDS church.
to many questions/no answers | 10:24 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
there are just to many questions and it seams like there are just to few
answers. all the questions seam to deal with the bio-father though.
1.did he or did he not know his gf was pregnet? (yes)
2.did he or did he not help during the pregnecy? (don't know)
3.did he or did he not keep in contact during the pregnecy? (looks like it up until the 7 month, then where did he go after that?)
4.why can't we hear directly from him and not his attorney, or his mother? (lets have him tell his side of the story)(or could it be that his attorney and his mother don't want him to open his mouth?)
5.So when will some producer get involved and make a Sunday night movie about this whold stupid mess? (this looks like it someday will go to tv about the whole thing)
1.did he or did he not know his gf was pregnet? (yes)
2.did he or did he not help during the pregnecy? (don't know)
3.did he or did he not keep in contact during the pregnecy? (looks like it up until the 7 month, then where did he go after that?)
4.why can't we hear directly from him and not his attorney, or his mother? (lets have him tell his side of the story)(or could it be that his attorney and his mother don't want him to open his mouth?)
5.So when will some producer get involved and make a Sunday night movie about this whold stupid mess? (this looks like it someday will go to tv about the whole thing)
re:suspicious | 10:25 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I read about this story several weeks ago and learned that the mother was not
cooperative in letting the father know what was going on. He was actively being
excluded. At twenty years old he is going to be easily manipulated. He
overcame that and came to the table while the child was still a newborn-- that
should be enough for everybody. How could missing a deadline by a few weeks
justify denying a parent his child?
goosserie | 10:27 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Another pushy grandmother longing to be mother to a baby again?
It seems to be one of the forces that has made "keeping the baby" so much more popular than giving it up for adoption for unwed mothers--the girls' own mothers have such a gooey desire for grandchildren, especially ones who will be utterly dependent on them since the babies' mothers aren't in a position to be mothers themselves. Why, they'll be living with grandma anyway since there isn't a husband-father present.
But this time it's the boy's mother--same phenomenon.
Or maybe I'm wrong.
It seems to be one of the forces that has made "keeping the baby" so much more popular than giving it up for adoption for unwed mothers--the girls' own mothers have such a gooey desire for grandchildren, especially ones who will be utterly dependent on them since the babies' mothers aren't in a position to be mothers themselves. Why, they'll be living with grandma anyway since there isn't a husband-father present.
But this time it's the boy's mother--same phenomenon.
Or maybe I'm wrong.
Edited | 10:29 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Be careful what you say about the womens right to choose abortion. You might be
edited. Women don't have the right to choose a good family in this
country. The guy can stop it anytime he wants.
Judge is right | 10:34 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
LDS social services was wrong to pursue placing the child for adoption after
they found out that the father had stepped up to the plate. They should have
done what was morally right, not what was legally justified. Cut some slack for
a scared, ill informed 20 year old. I bet suspicious is right about religion
being the underlying motivator with legalities being the cover.
ladyblueyes | 10:45 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I am an adoptive mother. We sent out private investigators to find the
biofather to terminate his rights as a parent. He could not be found. Two days
before the adoption was final, he spoke up from who knows where. The judge
said, "You abandoned your son for two years; you have no rights." and
our son was ours!
BioGrandparents can request to be called grandparents of the adopted child. I would happily let the bio grands be grandparents. What a healthy idea: let the child know he is so loved by all, that he gets extra grandparents. He was loved enough by his bioParents to be placed in another loving home because they were unable to care for him as he needed to be cared for. Our boys (16 and 14 and handfuls) know that they were so loved by their bioparents that, even though they couldn't care for them at the time, they wanted my boys with a family who would love, nurture and care for them. Open adoptions are the best!
BioGrandparents can request to be called grandparents of the adopted child. I would happily let the bio grands be grandparents. What a healthy idea: let the child know he is so loved by all, that he gets extra grandparents. He was loved enough by his bioParents to be placed in another loving home because they were unable to care for him as he needed to be cared for. Our boys (16 and 14 and handfuls) know that they were so loved by their bioparents that, even though they couldn't care for them at the time, they wanted my boys with a family who would love, nurture and care for them. Open adoptions are the best!
Fathers have no rights anyhow | 10:45 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Why should it be any different for him than for any other father who wants to be
a dad, in a society which has relegated him to the role of "sperm
donor"?
true blue | 10:47 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
this has nothing to do with religion. There was no father because he
didn't have any legal rights to the baby. If he wants another baby there
is an easy solution. The baby should stay.
If it were me | 10:48 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
If I were that baby I would want my blood relatives to do everything they could
to keep me in the family. Whether that meant being raised by an aunt and uncle,
grandparents, or my young father with some help from family. I would want to
know that my family did what it took to keep me because I was valued that much.
I know in some cases families really can't provide a home, but this is not
one of those cases. Give away the grandkids... not in my family.
Anonymous | 10:49 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
We recently adopted a wonderful baby girl from China. The #1 reason why we
chose to adopt from China was to avoid this type of unthinkable nightmare. We
have no information on our daughter's birth parents, and it will be
impossible for us or her to ever find out. This will be hard on her as she
grows up - never knowing who her birth parents were, or what their situation was
that drove them to abandon her on the steps of the orphanage. But I thank God
at all times that I will never, EVER, have to worry about birthparents popping
up and demanding that she be taken away from us. I can tell you from experience
that she is every bit as bonded to us as if she was born to us. It makes me
physically ill to think of human beings doing such a thing as dragging a baby or
young child away from the only family he's ever known. My prayers are with
this baby and the Nielsons, and I hope it is not long before sanity will be
restored and this boy will be returned to his adoptive parents. They are his
"real" family.
Simon Says | 10:54 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I have two older siblings that are adopted. I thank the Lord each day for the
selfless sacrifice of the birth parents. I can only imagine how tough it must
be to give up your child. However, what about the adoptive parents - they
develope real bonds with their adopted children. What axe does this judge have
to grind?
A few weeks | 10:58 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
We are talking about a baby. Not a playstation or video game left at your
girlfriends house. We don't have weeks to change our minds about children.
When a baby is placed. It is final unless the adoptive parents turn out to be
bad, (very unlikely). The boy had 9 months to decided if he wanted to be a
father.
If it were "you" | 11:05 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I hope "you" never have to get in the middle of a girl wanting to give
her child a Mom and a Dad. That is a much better environment than a Grandpa
(Dad) or a Uncle (Dad) who won't be around like a DAD should be. Having
only a MOM and substitute dads, and that guy that hates my mom isn't as
good as a stable two parent family. God Bless these girs that choose selflessly
to give their child a chance at having a complete family. These girls are
hero's.
Grandpa and Grandma are not a compete family. Yes, the child will survive, but statistically not as well as if placed for adoption.
Grandpa and Grandma are not a compete family. Yes, the child will survive, but statistically not as well as if placed for adoption.
quit pointing fingers | 11:05 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
We are a country based on law. If the laws were followed the adoption will be
supported and the poor judges will be overruled with the good judges
vindicated.
Paige | 11:13 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I placed my daughter for adoption almost eight years ago, but before I did so, I
saw a lawyer and had the birth father sign papers forfeiting all his rights and
responsibilities to her before she was born.
Why would I do that when so many others don't think to? Because of his mother. He had told me that she bullied him into fighting for custody over his first unplanned pregnancy with a former girlfriend. His mother never even found out about mine, but if she had, she would have done everything in her power to take my daugther, forcing me to keep her instead and deal with his family for the rest of our lives.
Since then, he impregnated another girl, married her, had a second child, divorced her, and now shuttles three children between two different mothers.
I will NEVER wonder if I did what was best for my daughter. He was obviously not ready to be a father, no matter how much his mother wished him to be.
Why would I do that when so many others don't think to? Because of his mother. He had told me that she bullied him into fighting for custody over his first unplanned pregnancy with a former girlfriend. His mother never even found out about mine, but if she had, she would have done everything in her power to take my daugther, forcing me to keep her instead and deal with his family for the rest of our lives.
Since then, he impregnated another girl, married her, had a second child, divorced her, and now shuttles three children between two different mothers.
I will NEVER wonder if I did what was best for my daughter. He was obviously not ready to be a father, no matter how much his mother wished him to be.
just a thought | 11:18 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
here is just a simple little thought.
would the bio-father (and his mother) feel the same way if this little boy was say a special needs child? from the pics that i have seen in the paper the little boy looks happy and health.
but it is still a thought, really what if the child needed special care? could/would the bio father be willing to do it? or would the bio-father just pawn his baby off on his mother and father?
i still think this whole this is a big mess! i really think that it comes down to the bio-fathers mother wanting a grandchild.
would the bio-father (and his mother) feel the same way if this little boy was say a special needs child? from the pics that i have seen in the paper the little boy looks happy and health.
but it is still a thought, really what if the child needed special care? could/would the bio father be willing to do it? or would the bio-father just pawn his baby off on his mother and father?
i still think this whole this is a big mess! i really think that it comes down to the bio-fathers mother wanting a grandchild.
Alex | 11:22 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
I feel for the pain of the adopting parents involved. But a lesson I learn from
this is that anyone adopting a child would be wise to get paperwork that's
signed by both the father and the pregnant mother before proceeding.
Paige | 11:28 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Not sure why this didn't go through before, but...
Regarding the post from "If it were me" at 10:48am, it's not always in the best interest of the child to keep him/her with his/her blood relatives to make him/her feel "valued that much."
I valued my daughter enough to give her all the things I wanted her to have. It's preposterous to think that children placed for adoption are unwanted or unvalued. In fact, quite the opposite is true.
The birth father's immediate family has literally fallen apart with divorce, arrests, and the like in the eight years since my daughter was born. My daughter deserved much better than that, and I'm pleased to say I ensured she got what she deserved.
Regarding the post from "If it were me" at 10:48am, it's not always in the best interest of the child to keep him/her with his/her blood relatives to make him/her feel "valued that much."
I valued my daughter enough to give her all the things I wanted her to have. It's preposterous to think that children placed for adoption are unwanted or unvalued. In fact, quite the opposite is true.
The birth father's immediate family has literally fallen apart with divorce, arrests, and the like in the eight years since my daughter was born. My daughter deserved much better than that, and I'm pleased to say I ensured she got what she deserved.
Reply: Alex | 11:30 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
You would do well to read the law, before making comments like that. The boy
didn't come forward during the nine months and petition the court that he
was the father willing to support that child. He in did in fact, by not going
forward give up his right to decided the future of this child.
This law was put into place so this wouldn't happen. The Judge is wrong. He should read the law.
The baby should stay, it is the right thing to do. Common sense.
This law was put into place so this wouldn't happen. The Judge is wrong. He should read the law.
The baby should stay, it is the right thing to do. Common sense.
mommyrodgers | 11:35 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
Let the judge and/or attorney be the ones to go to the Nilsens to remove Harvey.
Let them see the face of a 6 month old as he is torn from the arms of the
mother he knows. Let them see her face as this child is taken from her arms.
Then, as they hand Harvey to his bio family, see what expression comes, despite
the look on bio grandma's face. Will she calm his fears, or get frustrated
because she doesn't have the magic that comes with bonding, such as Harvey
has with his adoptive mom. I'm a grandma, I love my grandchild. But I do
not have the "mom" magic with her. That magic goes with being a mom,
not a grandma.
Edited II | 11:40 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
To Edited I - I thought that the Deseret Press had it in just for me when they
edited my comment that this case is enough to encourage women to have abortions.
I guess this fits the conservative standpoint that if we don't talk about
abortions, no one will every think about having one.
re:suspicious | 10:25 a.m. Dec. | 11:43 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
It doesn't matter if she is cooperative or not. He has to go to the court
and declare his possible paternity. He has to be willing to put up or shut up.
She can't prevent this from happening. He could have done this anytime
during the 9 months.
He didn't do what he should have done. There is not Grandparent disclosure by the way. They don't have to know anything.
He didn't do what he should have done. There is not Grandparent disclosure by the way. They don't have to know anything.
Choice? | 11:48 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007
It's a double standard. A girl can choose abortion, she just can't
"CHOOSE" parents.
Where is the ACLU or the pro abortion groups to defend this adoptive family, who support a girls right to choose.
Where is the ACLU or the pro abortion groups to defend this adoptive family, who support a girls right to choose.
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Baby Harvey is being pulled in two directions: by his birth father in Idaho and by his adoptive parents.
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ian you are the 3A MVP If you win next week so just do it that would be nice....
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How else could a 20 year-old pay for two lawyers and a baby room? I make a decent living, but I sure can't afford two lawyers.
Good luck Nielson family