Deseret News | Reader comments: Transgender student fights denial of housing at SUU

Reader comments
Transgender student fights denial of housing at SUU

cathy | 12:59 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

I know a website about GLBT named http://www.biloves.com. It is doing a very good job. Many GLBT like it.

Please!!!! | 5:39 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

One student is making this big of a stink, maybe we need to rethink how we handle the minority.

Clare | 7:48 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

I would feel extremely uncomfortable sharing a dorm room and bathroom with someone who was not of the same gender. It's embarrassing enough to share with someone who is. What about the other student's rights. I'm sorry if my personal feelings seem unfair and discriminatory, but there it is. I have rights too. I don't believe that hormone treatments and surgery truly change a person's gender. If they asked the other students who had no problem sharing with a transgender person and they had no problem with it, than I am fine, but don't force me. I have a right to have my own opinions and beliefs. Just because I don't agree with the people above does not make me a bad person. It just makes me a person who has certain comfort zones. I would never be rude to someone regardless of their sexual orientation, but leave me my personal options.

Comments continue below

Re: Please!!!! | 7:52 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

It took Rosa Parks to make a big stink by refusing to sit at the back of the bus. Maybe you need to rethink the power of one person to create change.

Carra | 8:21 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Claire, if you would feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom/dorm room with someone who is a different gender than you, imagine what kind of discomfort a person who is transgender feels. They do not choose this lifestyle and they should not be punished for it. If anything you should applaud a person who is actually taking a step to enhance their lives. Would you feel comfortable sharing a room with someone who was on hormone replacement because they had to have a hysterectomy at a young age due to complications beyond their control? You are correct in stating that hormones don't change a person, they help a person function on a normal daily level. The medications work the same for someone who is over weight and needs an appetite suppressant or for someone who is bipolar and needs a mood balancing medication. No one should be judged or discriminated against simply because they've decided to change their life for the better.

Paul | 8:28 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Maybe we don't need to "handle" the minority. Maybe we just need to respect them and acknowledge that they have the same rights as all human beings. I happen to be in a religious "minority" and don't want to be handled either, thanks.

Allyson | 8:32 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

I would like to see the Deseret News' editorial board take a position on this matter.

I am troubled by how classist the Univeristy's position is. Gender reassignment surgery is an incredibly expensive procedureï¿½prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of transgendered people. SUU apparently expects a person in Mr Osborn's position (in his twenties without a college education) to have somehow amassed the necessary resources to meet their requirements. Those who come from all but the highest classes of our society will never be able to do so. SUU's policy establishes a barrier to on-campus housing that is effectively impossible for the vast majority of transgendered students to meet.

Rupunzel | 9:02 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

What are individuals like Clare really afraid of? Physical anatomy is now what defines who we are, and this should not be used to segerate individuals. Fact is, individuals who have problems with transfolks usually have gender idenitiy or sexual orientation problems of their own and project their problems upon others. Fact is, many female to male transgender individuals never have genitial or bottom surgery for good reasons and hormone therapy is a life long health care reality. Adding to the problem of surgery, it almost never covered by health car insurance which is similar to with holding treatment for cancer or other deadly health condition. The genitial surgery requirement is another narrow minded idea that one's true self is defined by their genitals which has no scientific basis and a moral rather than realistic view of how nature really is.

Confused | 9:03 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

If he/she can't figure out who they are how are the administrators or roomates supposed to?

JP | 9:36 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

The student knows exactly who he is. But he's being told that he's not male enough to be in male housing, yet not female enough to be in female housing ... how does the university justify that standard?

Re: Confused | 9:50 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

He knows who he is, he simply doesn't want the surgery at this time. A friend of mine died early this month at the ripe old age of 94. While he was born female, he had lived as a man his entire adult life. I met him when I was 6 and was offered no explanation about what he or she was. Somehow I made it to 39 without being damaged and figured it out when I was 12. I think a bunch of college students can handle this.

Anonymous | 9:52 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Why should the rest of the people in the dorm have to put their standards and beliefs to the side for the sake of another? What about their beliefs and feelings? No it is not OK to treat others badly based on gender, orientation, race, or religion. Everyone deserves respect, but respecting someone is entirely different from forcing others to accept the beliefs of one person. If the university does not have mixed housing, then they should provide another alternative, but not at the expense of the other students.

Andy | 9:57 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

I think that everyone is missing one obvious point. I am not against or for what the school is doing, it is not my place. But I for one, think that it could be for the safety of the individual. Yes this individual lives the lifestyle of a male, but is still a female by anatomy. What happens if some of the other male roommates find out and the unimaginable happens and they take advantage of him, or worse rape him. I don't like thinking of worse case scenarios, but if this happened, the school would be held accountable and this individual. I don't know if this is why they are holding out on allowing this student to room with the male students or not, but it is a point to keep in mind. Unfortunately in our society, we all must keep in mind the safety of individuals, before we start granting the wishes of all in their quests to be accepted.

Let me blow your mind | 10:01 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Not that it should matter, but The Intersex Initiative estimates that 1 in 2000 births (five Americans every day) are born intersexual, meaning the baby's outward genitalia is "non-traditional" from birth onward. Gentically, these folks have a gender but their genitals do not match it, or their genitals are anatomically a mixture of both male and female, etc. It's none of our business whether the student in this article was born intersexual or if he was born with genitals that do not match his cognitive gender - either way, it's impossible to justify discriminating against this person. Intersexual folks may also be transgender, and vice versa, but not necessarily. I mention the issue of intersexuality only to further confound the folks who are made uncomfortable by gender bending. Gender ambiguity is normal, folks, and it's always been around! Deal!

Rabid Replier | 1:28 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Anonymous: Nobody's asking anyone to change their values. What is at stake is whether you believing I'm making wrong choices justifies preventing me from living with you at a public school. Anyone who values anything will occasionally have to meet people who do not feel the same way. It's not about forcing beliefs, it's acknowledging that not everybody sees the world the way you do.

Rabid Replier | 1:33 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Andy:

Men get raped too. Putting male genitals on Kourt will not magically make him safe from an unaccepting mob of men. And I would invite you and all those who think Kourt should just get the surgery to take a look at some "post operative" pictures for female-to-male patients. Apart from the cost, the surgery results in more of a mutilation than a phallus.

T-birder | 1:35 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

When I attended what was then Southern Utah State College in the early 1980's, I lived in Juniper Hall and it was co-ed, but the guys had one floor, the girls another, like that. Is it still like that? And could that be any type of solution?

Erik | 3:34 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

As a scientist (molecular genetics/virology) I'd like to make a small point. You are born with either XX chromosomes or XY chromosomes, which designate you male or female. Hormone therapy or 'reassignment' doesn't change this salient fact. I'm tired of political correctness. Let's call a spade a spade. Any sexual behavior that doesn't correspond to the inherent nature of procreation (man and woman) is a sexual perversion. Look it up in the dictionary. A perversion is any extreme deviation from normalcy, in this case, biological normalcy. A female should not be placed in a male dorm. Before you call me a bigot, please remember that I'm basing this on scientific fact, not on emotion. I don't discriminate people based on whatever views they have. I simply see a situation for what it is. SHE should be placed in a female dorm because she has two X chromosomes.

Skeptic | 3:55 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

I just had to say something to this:

>

Uh, wrong. Lots of Universities and institutions of higher learning have co-ed dorms. THAT is a fact. Your opinion wasn't scientific.

However, I would never call you a bigot. You and I just see things differently.

Re: Erik | 3:59 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Maybe, just maybe, you are a scientist. If you are a scientist then you also have to admit that new discoveries are being made everyday and that what was a "fact" 20 years ago, may not be a "fact" tomorrow. There are hundreds of studies being conducted on gender and the results are proving it is not as simple as being XX or XY anymore. Since 10% of mammals participate in homosexual behavior, I guess you think that penguins are perverted too, eh?

Clare | 7:00 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

For your information, I was forced to have a hysterectomy at an early age. I have never gotten over the fact that I was unable to have children. I stand by what I said before.

Let me blow your mind | 7:57 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Oh Erik! Please. You may be a scientist but you are naive and suffer from a lack of imagination (among scientists, I must say, you have a lot of company). First of all, as another poster commented, the XX and XY are not the only genes impacting gender, genital formation and gender identify. Seriously, even eye color is impacted by more than one gene. Do you really think issues as complex as gender identity boil down to just XX or XY? Just because we don't know precisely which genes help the XX/XY genes in forming gender, it doesn't mean that they don't. Nevertheless, a student shouldn't need to reference his genetics in order to prove he's worthy of student housing; he identifies as male - let him live with the guys. Unless the student is causing harm to others, he should be given housing. Legally speaking, being made "uncomfortable" is certainly not the same thing as harm. I hope this student can afford a lawyer. Utah could use this battle right now. Someone call Lambda Legal, and I want that done five minutes ago.

Randi | 8:10 p.m. Dec. 18, 2007

Erik, before touting your scientific credentials in the future, you should study variations in the human 23rd chromosomal pair, e.g., XO (Turner's Syndrome), XXY (Klinefelter's Syndrome), XYY, XXXY, etc. Then, you should study the way in which some individuals' genetic inheritance results in XY persons with female genitals (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) and XY persons with female genitals (Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia). With that accomplished, you could consider the ways in which gender identity is distinct from chromosomes and genitals.

Clare | 7:55 a.m. Dec. 19, 2007

Okay, instead of uncomfortable, let's say appalled. Sorry, but that is how I feel and I'm sure I'm not the only one in the state. I refuse to change my personal feelings and beliefs because you don't like it, but you're welcome to your own.

Steve | 4:21 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007

Sorry, but I think everyone is born the correct gender. Male spirits are sent to male bodies and female spirits are sent to female bodies.

Maybe this woman should consider going to a school who has co-ed dorms or find of campus housing, that would probably be easier and alot less stress and mental anguish. Schools who aren't co-ed I think are perfectly within their rights to keep the males and females seperate in their housing.

Tom in Houston | 4:25 p.m. Dec. 19, 2007

So SUU, a public institution supported by all taxpayers (not just people who hate LGBT people) denies housing to a person because he hasn't had surgery? What's next? Forcing ugly women to have face lifts in order to live in SUU housing? I hope Utahns like paying Lambda Legal's massive legal bills when you lose this one. The reason he was denied housing isn't because he is medically female; its because he hasn't had surgery. Sounds like a violation of the Americans for Disability Act.

Chalupa | 10:02 a.m. Dec. 20, 2007

Tom in Houston: Nice slippery-slope argument. Transgenders today; Three-eyed Squiezods tomorrow...

Here's what SUU should have done: "You're medically female, so you won't be permitted to live in male housing. Would you be willing to live in female housing?"

If her answer is yes, assign a room. If it's no, thank her for her time.

Thomas | 10:56 a.m. Dec. 20, 2007

This is social terrorism plain and simple. Come up with a rule that no one can follow and sue them if they don't change to accommodate you. Let's say I cut all my fingers off because I wanted to be different. So now everywhere I go, I need doors with handles that are levers instead of knobs, but all of the dorms have knobs. So now I can sue them because they didn't spend enough money putting levers on every door.
Poor little person who decided to be different. Well, I hate to tell you, some people live off campus because they are married. Does that mean SUU has to build dorms for married people. Does that mean that married people should sue cause they can't live in the dorms. NO! The university has facilities built as a convenience to those that follow specific guidelines, they don't have to give you what ever you want, they are providing a service, you can go live elsewhere if you don't like it.
Boo Hoo

Tom in Houston | 5:38 p.m. Dec. 22, 2007

Chalupa,

Mr. Osborn was denied ANY housing at SUU. Unless he spends 100,000 dollars and goes through painful surgery, he was told he cannot live in either the MALE or FEMALE dorms. This is a public university paid for by ALL of the people for the benefit of ALL the people (not just for people who hate Gay people).

Again, I hope Utah has to pay Lambda Legal millions in legal fees when they lose this one.

Rikki | 5:38 a.m. Jan. 27, 2008

I have no doubt that some people would be uncomfortable rooming with Kourt Osborn. Doubtless, some would be uncomfortable rooming with members of certain ethnicities or religions. Housing in a publicly-supported university is not a popularity contest.

Rikki

DJ Riceburner | 2:16 p.m. Feb. 4, 2008

Steve,
What about hermaphrodites? Explain that one.

LW | 2:15 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

Come on people it's not like he didn't have other options. I'm a student at SUU right now and there's plenty of off-campus housing. The University has every right to put requirements on people that want to live in their on campus housing he doesn't meet them so quit crying and either meet them or live somewhere else.

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