Deseret News | Colorado shooter had been baptized Mormon

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Colorado shooter had been baptized Mormon

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yep | 8:36 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

You must forgive. Who ever you are. If not you're no better than the unforgiven.

Bill in Tooele | 8:41 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I hope everyone read Blake's comments. Yes, I am Mormon. And I think Blake is right on the money. Props to you, man.

Clueless | 8:43 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Wake up! The only reason his religion is an issue is because he shot up two CHURCHES. If he had acted on a school his student status would be an issue, if he had shot up an office his employment or business dealings would be an issue.

Comments continue below

Liars have testimonies but not k | 8:47 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Matt, you are correct. This whole story is one of religion. The victims were victims of a Church and Matt Murray was a former member of their Church. It only makes sense to look at the mindset and history of the young man so we can better understand how we can prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

We can't make sweeping generalization about the boy or say that his religion has nothing to do with it while praising members of the Church for doing good things. You are correct that many Mormons want to only hear about Young or the Osmonds and not Murray.

They prefer to belittle, insult and degrade Matt Murray and to attack anyone who mentions his name in connection with his faith but these are the same people who would go around talking about Steve Young. As a Mormon I want to hear the good and the bad even when it's about members of my Church.

Yet, there are some people in the Church who believe that no member could kill someone else or if they did then they don't have a testimony. A liar can have a testimony but not a killer.

Listen to "Clueless" | 9:34 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Haha. That's exactly what I was going to say. These comments make it seem that a church and a religion aren't synonymous with each other.

A nation on drugs | 9:50 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I'd like to know what drugs this kid was on? The shooter in Virginia was on Prozac. I think we all need to investigate the drugs that are being prescribed and the effects of all drugs.

We also need to overturn Roe v. Wade to reestablish the sanctity of life.

Those who knew of this kid's issues must be held accountable, especially if they were psychologists, social workers, and others.

We have an epidemic of drug use (thanks to no borders), official drug prescriptions that are way over the top, a pornographic mind set (just flip on the tv and get on the internet), and a marxist agenda that is well underway (see California SB 777).

We need to end it and restore our Judeao-Christian heritage. Why do we put up with the Larry Flint's and the socialist..shoo them away...gone.

Pretty soon the feds will make sure that every state in the union circles the drain and their will be no refuge.

lds? | 10:01 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I don't know if you can call him LDS, so, he came to church a couple of times, got baptised. It sounded to me like he stopped coming to church shortly therafter.

It would be one thing if he was an active member, but since he hasn't been to church in the last year, and probably has only gone to an LDS church 4 or 5 times in his life, I don't think this qualifies him as LDS.

I am almost positive that he didn't consider himself LDS either. If you asked him before he did this what religion he was, he wouldn't have claimed to be LDS (mormon).

California | 10:22 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To all the people who say "it wouldn't have been printed if he hadn't been a mormon," I say, here in the California bay area, I didn't see anything about his religion. Apparently, his religion didn't matter here.

Also, I love it when people pull out the "he wasn't a *true* LDS member." If he'd cured cancer or landed on the moon, you'd all be claiming him as kin. Why is this different?

Simon Raubie | 10:23 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

To Odell: Sounds like you are quite an authority on the subject. Either that or a hypocrite. Either way ever thought that people have what we call Agency, I.E. The freedom to choose and to act for themselves - good or evil! Nobody takes you to the waters of baptism with a gun to your head. Nobody forces you to be active in the LDS Church. Yes, there are programs in place to help you, but never force. To even suggest that the LDS Church's "neglect" may be responsible for his actions is childish and petty. It is pretty sad that at an aweful time like this where lives have been lost, that there are those who find the time to critize another's religion. I have only lived in the USA (Utah) for 4 months, and have been amazed at the goodness of the people around me - LDS and Non-LDS alike. Lets concentrate on the goodness rather than on what we don't agree with. Criticize to your own condemnation!

james stowe | 10:34 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Did not know this, but it makes sense, the poor guy was so depressed being LDS. My heart goes out to him.

I'm LDS | 10:44 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

For those of my faith and those not, here is the simple truth. A confused, sick and maybe bad young did a horrific thing and took the life of innocent people. Something in his life led to this end result. He will answer for his actions as we all will.

Many friends and loved ones of both the young man and the victims along with any true Christian are hurting because of this tragedy.

What each of us needs to do is prevent ourselves and those we love from going down a path that could lead to this type of end result.

Any criminal or evil person started out as an innocent child. Environment, experience and most significantly, choices are what lead to such outcomes.

Everytime I drive by the edge of town and see the establishments that have young ladies inside "entertaining" selfish men I think the same thing. She was once a daddy's little girl. Did the dad go wrong by not telling her and treating her like she was a princess? Did she go wrong by making poor life choices? Regardless, she was once innocent and a positive contributer.

Protect yourself and others from destructive paths.

Pathetic!!!! | 10:57 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I am not LDS or even remotely close to it. I am proud of my religion and I believe we have "High Standards" as well, not just mormons have high standards... but pointing this guys religion out is attacking mormons in general. WHO CARES WHAT RELIGION HE WAS!!! Like another post said, name me the religions of all those others who have been convicted of crimes lately... Its ignorance. None of his actions had anything to do with being LDS. And by the way, notice I didnt put what religion I was??? CUZ IT DOESNT MATTER!!!!

don't taze me bro | 11:00 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

it isn't about race ,religion it is the Act---we are all flawed human beings it is x-mas be thank ful for what you do got ..things are getting crasy..better lockup the house and gifts cause people are now going around here in slc acting the same as those mobs back when in illinois.

Chad | 11:09 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Please remember, Hitler was a Catholic. The Pope granted Hitler power to override appointments of bishops in Germany. The Catholic Church never banned "Mein Kampf" during a time when they were banning vast amount of modern literature. In fact, the Vatican allowed Hitler to oversee the Church in Germany in exchange for "taxing" the people and sending the money to the Vatican.

Not sure what the point of this article was, but just because someone claims to follow a set of beliefs does not make anyone else in that belief system responsible for their heinous acts.

Blue Max | 11:30 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It seems thet socal curmudgeon has many ani-mormon belifes the least of which is that all mormons are consind to hell, even if that is true (which it is not) dose he not think that such thoughts of his fellow man condem him to the same fate? so from all of us to socal cumudgeon, SEE YOU THERE!!!!!

Don | 11:30 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Just read the article about an interview with this
young mans mother. It is so tragic, she is understandably, devastated. Also some information
did come out, that he has been on Ritalin and
Zoloft since he was five. Thank you DRUG DESTRUCTION
COMPANIES. I hope a 500 billion class action lawsuit
is brought against you, the states, and the school
systems, that have drugged the little ones,for your
perverse agenda's. Not only has it been proven that
these powerful drugs retard the natural growth and
development of the body, they also destroy what was
once a beautiful child.The "drug your kid fascists"
tried to get my son. I stopped them cold.This mass drugging of children into young adulthood needs to
stop, or the carnage will continue.

kris | 11:39 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Here we go again, More fodder for people to mock and annoy people of the Mormon faith. People make choices, and have the freedom to do so. There are consequences to our actions good or bad. I have known some people who call themselves Christians, but don't act very Christlike. And then I also know many who are very good people. The same goes for every religion. Some people follow their chosen faith better than others. And some claim to be of a certain faith and don't follow their faiths tenets at all. We all need to focus on being the best person we can be, and raise our children likewise, instead of pointing fingers at other peoples flaws.

L | 11:56 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I have read the article and the comments posted and have tried to reflect on each. It is a fact that a person did something I feel inappropriate and my sympathy goes out to all.

That said, it seems like we begin to fall off into somewhat conflicting, inaccurate, incomplete information, the truth of it may never be known after investigations etc. (more than a news article.)

For instance some assume that since he had not been to Church for awhile he was inactive, maybe he was but from the article I have no "proof" of that. Maybe he was working on Sundays and wasn't able to attend. Maybe last night his home teachers were there and encouraged him to "hang in there", maybe they weren't, maybe they should have been. Maybe he visited a physiologist the day before, maybe he should have, maybe he gave him some drugs, or maybe he should have. Maybe someone told him he was a looser that just pushed him over the edge.

Too many maybes, uncertain facts, ifs, and in my opion to many rush to judgements from a few lines in the paper. I'm sure neither Church suggested killing others asa solution.

Bubba Luv | 12:05 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

So what if this guy was baptized LDS? LDS missionaries have an AMAZING ability to influence and 'persuade' distraught people into getting baptized. I know the church has 13 million-plus worldwide members - how many from that number actually attend church on an active or semi-active basis? Half? One-fourth?
This guy was obviously a mental mess.
Oh yea, just because a person is ANY religion, doesn't define that person in ANY way. George W. Bush is 'allegedly' a Christian of some kind, yet he is without question one of the most immoral, evil, dishonest, lowlife scumbags in the history of mankind. So stick that in y'all's peace pipe and smoke up!

David Fryer | 12:13 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

What does his religion matter? Hitler was raised Roman Catholic, does that mean that the Catholic church turned him into a madman. The issue here is not that they outed the Colorado shooter as LDS, but that this is not a normal practice for the media. The Omaha shooter was Methodist, but there is no news stories about that. There are not any news stories about the shooters in Jonesboro Arkansas or Pearl Mississippi being Baptist. The last time religion was mentioned in a case like this was when it was the D.C. snipers and they were Muslim.

LDS wimp | 1:41 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Matt was just practicing Blood Attonement. It's a long accepted practice of the ancient and current Mormon(LDS)church. If you current Mormons don't know what it is then you need to study your own history.

Unknown to you | 1:46 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Wow, the posts from the lds on this thread are just reeling with persecution complex. Good grief Mormons, you guys play the victim like no other group of people I have ever known. And Mormons wonder why people mock them. silly!

on the twelveth day of xmas | 1:50 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

there they go again, the christians singing out of tune!

mean with a testimony! | 2:09 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

i was goin to post but ouch! this is christmas!

I'mAMormontoo | 2:31 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It only matters because he is Mormon. For some reason whenever a crime happens, and the press finds out that that person is a Mormon, it's blasted all over the headlines: "Mormon kills", "Mormon steals", "Mormon has an affair." No matter what it is! Fine, let them be that way then...it only lets everyone see that we Mormons (better known as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) are out there, and we aren't going away!
I think the next time someone does a crime, Deseret News needs to find out if he/she isn't a Mormon, and then put in the headlines: Catholic commits a crime, or Baptist commits crime. Oh wait...that wouldn't make sense. I guess because we Mormons are set high on a pedestal, whenever we do something "bad" everyone has to know that we are just as mortal and so non-perfect as the next religion.

Another Utah Citizen | 2:37 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

In doing background checks on the person who did the shooting, it was discovered that he had recently been babtized a morman. Now all you mormans, please try to refrain from paranoia; nothing personal there. Could it possibly be that he was simply searching for God and that the search was affected by mental illness therefore the reason for the shooting.

jfrazier | 3:02 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Bubba Luv,

You make slanderous comments that are without basis. You slander the name of the President of our great country and have nothing to base it on. Too bad there are such uninformed, impulsive, people out there like you that perpetuate such nonsense. How is Bush immoral? Evil? Dishonest? The "lowlife scumbag" comment just shows your general lack of class and inability to separate emotion from fact.

To LDS wimp | 3:20 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Just what I need, another non-Mormon trying to tell me about my own religion.
HaHaHaHaHa.....What a joke! You think this guy was practicing blood atonement? You obviously have no idea about what "blood atonement" is supposed to be. Maybe you better study a little more.

Ryan W | 3:21 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

1. I don't remember anything in the article suggesting that anyone insinuated his being baptised LDS had anything to do with his shooting up the church.
2. David Fryer: You're reading the deseret news. Of course they are going to report big people in the news that are LDS (good or bad). If you don't what to hear about how some LDS person did something (again, good or bad), then read a real news paper like (pick one): Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, or USA Today. But here you're going to read about LDS people. That's the way it works. Don't be so sensitive.

3. LDS wimp: I imagine we have a lot in common, however none of these people are going to do any research they haven't been told to do by their leaders. I think you'd be more effective to further explain your point, or I wouldn't waste my time writing anything. Just a suggestion.

j | 3:32 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

LDS wimp...
We do not practice blood atonement. Where are you getting your information?

Anonymous | 3:41 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

why is this news????????????????????????

Someone with a memory | 4:02 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

The 51-year old man that was shot was also a Mormon once, I knew him at BYU. He's now Baptist. Have fun obsessing about this folks,

Good one. | 4:07 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

All the wierdos come out.From blood attonement to he visited his physiologist.
He was a wacked out guy with no friends.
Maybe we should the nice guy next time we have the chance.

Hokey | 5:04 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

It will be interesting to find out what he had to say on his internet posts.

Why is this news! | 5:06 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I would like to know why this is news?! I've read about many of these "mass shootings", and I don't remember anybody's religion other that the Muslim that shot up Trolley Square and this article! Unless the person was doing it under some misguided idea of their faith, I can see no reason for mentioning the person's faith other than to denigrate that person's faith!

Prescription for murder | 10:17 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Re; Don
Thank you so much for this most informative comment.
Your information changes the entire picture.
I wish everyone would take seriously what you said
Unfortunatly, Medical science has the law (and the church) on their side.
Looks like this whole murderous incident could have been prevented by obedience to the Word of Wisdom (and other scriptures relating to health)
To Nation on Drugs:
Thanks. You sound like you know something.
Wish I knew who you were. (both of you) I would like to hear more of this.

Julie | 10:46 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

What does it matter what this murderer's faith is? Do you print the faith of all murderers? No, only if it happenes to be Mormon. What is it about the Mormon faith that people feel they have to ridicule, bash, demean, or criticize it? I don't recall such condemnation about any other religion.

Looks like this boy | 12:33 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

didn't find what he was looking for in religion. It just happened to be LDS that he chose. It's very sad so many young people just don't seem to find anything to hold onto, he didn't need religion, he needed some mental health help. I wonder how we can see the signs of the desperate looking for something, but unable to find it, and what we can do about it. All of these shootings are very sad statement of our society in general.

Bookaholic | 3:27 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Craig in Estonia--You could NOT be MORE wrong! Atheists and agnostics are peaceloving people? You've GOT to be joking! In your dreams, sailor!

Just think about Mao Zedong, Stalin, Lenin. We're talking tens of millions of deaths, and that's just scratching the surface. You've got your head where the sun don't shine.

Religious wars are horrific, and there is a long and varied history of conflicts that have taken place over the years, it's true. But to say that atheists are better, peace loving people is LUNACY.

Mom in MO | 5:10 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I wonder how many other faiths this guy accepted before (and maybe after) his baptism. And baptism doesn't mean conversion. What religion was the Unibomber? I don't know, but I think Al Gore invented it.

anonymous | 6:06 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Too bad the shooter wasn't a born-again Baptist. He'd still be "saved," even though he killed all those people.

media coverage | 6:39 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Some LDS brothers and sisters have become so publicly sanctimonious and "holier-than-thou" that mainstream America is fedup with this Aryan attitude and takes pleasure reading about the Ted Bundys, Mark Hackings, Brian Mitchells, and Warren Jeffs that emerge from time to time in this peculiar society.

Pat Newman | 8:08 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I just think it is so interesting that you never hear if the shooter is Catholic or Baptist or any other religion...

Roger | 9:53 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

To "LDS wimp" and "Ryan W." - Your ignorance would be laughable, if it wasn't so sad. I have RESEARCHED a lot about the so-called practice of "blood atonement." It's one of a long list of diatribes that professional Mormon bashers bring up again and again in books, pamphlets and on the Internet. The first rule of bashing the LDS Church is, tell a lie often enough, and eventually it becomes fact.

Are you next going to tell us that Mormons have horns, or that women escape from the Salt Lake Temple by jumping into the Great Salt Lake?

To "Unknown to you" - The second rule of Mormon bashing is, when Mormons attempt to defend their faith aginst those who mock it, the mockers can simply yell, "PERSECUTION COMPLEX! PERSECUTION COMPLEX!"

I suppose if a little girl is beaten by her father and reports it to the police, she's just suffering from a persecution complex, right?

Dear Connect the Dots | 9:54 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

According to late reports on TV only 60.2% of the state is LDs. Perhaps the depression comes from the other 39.8%. Don't jump to conclusions based on faulty data. Do research first and then make assumptions based on reliable data. Your own bias is showing through your silly comment.

I agree with all the others that you don't hear about the religion from other shooters. A religious bias in journalism.

Take off your blinders | 9:56 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

These shootings took place in a CHURCH...I think it is completely relevant to mention someone's faith, no matter what it is. Here's a hypothetical - IF THIS GUY WAS A BAPTIST AND DID THIS AT A TEMPLE, THEY WOULD CERTAINLY MENTION THAT HE WAS BAPTIST...

Fredd | 10:16 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Are you people really this clueless? This article was written by Mormons for Mormons. No one else cares he was Mormon but you! So if you are offended then tell the DNews not to point point out Mormons in the news.

Is anybody awake? | 10:54 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

His religion is relevant because he shot people in churches....it's called a motive.

the truth hurts | 12:25 p.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Bulls-eye Fredd!
Give credit where credit is due!

Richard Sumsion | 12:39 p.m. Dec. 15, 2007

This is a tragic story, but it is also a clear case of Mormon bashing. Can't the reporting deal with the facts and not the inuendos? Come on. You can do better than this. Clearly these murders did not occur because he was a Mormon.

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