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Logic Please | 11:57 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Come on people. I am not going to say anything for or against porn but....
where is the logic in comparing porn to serial killers? Even if every serial
killer is addicted porn it doesn't mean every person who looks at porn is a
serial killer. Get real and understand people are interested in many things
that aren't of any interest in you. Just because it is taboo in one
culture doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong. Quite interesting is the
series on National Geographic focusing on social norms, I believe it is indeed
called taboo. I think many of you should open your eyes, get your heads out of
the sand, and stop trying to place your rules/laws/thoughts on everyone else.
Who knows (but God himself), maybe you are wrong!
Who knows (but God himself), maybe you are wrong!
Anonymous | 12:00 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
>>The thing about Porn that no one can argue with is that it is
ADDICTIVE.>>
Er, I can argue with that. What leads you to believe that, in arguably, porn is addictive?
Addiction has to do with the person, not the substance (with the possible exception of meth, which is supposedly one of most highly addictive substances out there).
You think everyone who has seen porn is addicted?
I sure as heck am not.
Er, I can argue with that. What leads you to believe that, in arguably, porn is addictive?
Addiction has to do with the person, not the substance (with the possible exception of meth, which is supposedly one of most highly addictive substances out there).
You think everyone who has seen porn is addicted?
I sure as heck am not.
Comments continue below
Chris | 12:08 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Heroin is addictive, Porn is habit forming. The word addictive is overused. Sex
is hardwired into our brains, and if you aren't getting the kind you want
society has provided a outlet. It isn't going away.
Anon | 12:11 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I dont care if any one believes this, but I'll tell my story. I am
spiritually gifted and often see spirits. I gradually became
"adicted" to porn and was under its power for over five years. No one
would have guessed. I am a married, member of the church.
Addiction is a funny word, because just like those trapped in east berlin during the cold war, you only notice you're a prisoner if you try to escape. Anyway, after getting more and more into porn I started being possessed by demons... not just bad spirits, demons (and anyone who sees spirits knows there is a HUGE diference). Anyway, I kept doing it even though I knew I was possessed. I knew it was wrong, but couldnt stop. I only have 200 words so I will just tell you all, The amount of control that demons and spirits have over you is dependant on the amount of truth your sinning against, But DONT GIVE IN. fight it! God is testing us (you!) with this abomination which will make us desolate and one day we will all see its true effects!
Pray for forgivness and stop before its too late!
Addiction is a funny word, because just like those trapped in east berlin during the cold war, you only notice you're a prisoner if you try to escape. Anyway, after getting more and more into porn I started being possessed by demons... not just bad spirits, demons (and anyone who sees spirits knows there is a HUGE diference). Anyway, I kept doing it even though I knew I was possessed. I knew it was wrong, but couldnt stop. I only have 200 words so I will just tell you all, The amount of control that demons and spirits have over you is dependant on the amount of truth your sinning against, But DONT GIVE IN. fight it! God is testing us (you!) with this abomination which will make us desolate and one day we will all see its true effects!
Pray for forgivness and stop before its too late!
Paperboy | 12:32 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
As long as societal institutions continue to teach human beings that expressing
sexuality is attached to feelings of shame, that the human body is attached to
shame and that God and the Church owns our body and what we do with it,
people's fascination with and attraction to pornography will not subside.
I've lived in Europe and I've experienced first hand the difference in
how many Europeans look upon sex and nudity vs their American counterparts.
Pornography does exist in Europe but the public's fascination and addiction
issues don't seem to be at the same level as the level seen in the U.S.
Eliminate the shame and many of the problems (addiction, etc.) with pornography
will fade away.
Arm of Orion | 12:47 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Sub I don't think anyone is shocked that porn has filled the void since it
is a mere imitation of what sex is.
There is one question I have though what constitutes healthy ideas of sex. Granted it shouldn't be considered evil but should we all "entertain" ourselves in whatever manner we please?
There is one question I have though what constitutes healthy ideas of sex. Granted it shouldn't be considered evil but should we all "entertain" ourselves in whatever manner we please?
RE: enough is enough | 12:50 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Thank you for your comments. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Seminary Class from Cedar City | 12:55 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
If we are equal, why would degrading or disrespecting another person's body
be acceptable. Why would we strive to attain it (porn)?
If you are one who justifies looking at porn, your thoughts are probably unclean. Matt 5:28
If you are one who justifies looking at porn, your thoughts are probably unclean. Matt 5:28
Arm of Orion | 12:58 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Logic Please, think about what they wrote we weren't saying that everyone
who looks at porn is a serial killer what we were saying is that serial killers
are all addicted to Porn 10% is coincidence 100% is suspicious.
From a single guy, still looking | 12:59 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
To all who justify porn:
No, not everyone uses porn. Porn does not have a place in a healthy lifestyle. It is degrading to men and women. It just perverts that which is good. It is an imitation, not a substitute. It enslaves its producers and its users. It is selfish, disgusting, and demoralizing. Quit lying to yourselves. You can live free of its addiction. You can see it for what it is. And you will be happier, and appreciate yourself and the beauties of this world more without it.
Love is sacred. Lust is secret. Lust takes away and steals virtue, along with your ability to love. Love given, adds to another while growing within the giver, likewise when you receive it from another it adds to you.
I'm not judging anyone. But, some of you seem to challenge whether it is possible to be a single guy without using porn. I'm 29 years of living proof. Never had a need for it. I invite you to join me, but on your own "high horse." This knight will be needing his "high horse" to find Mrs. Right.
No, not everyone uses porn. Porn does not have a place in a healthy lifestyle. It is degrading to men and women. It just perverts that which is good. It is an imitation, not a substitute. It enslaves its producers and its users. It is selfish, disgusting, and demoralizing. Quit lying to yourselves. You can live free of its addiction. You can see it for what it is. And you will be happier, and appreciate yourself and the beauties of this world more without it.
Love is sacred. Lust is secret. Lust takes away and steals virtue, along with your ability to love. Love given, adds to another while growing within the giver, likewise when you receive it from another it adds to you.
I'm not judging anyone. But, some of you seem to challenge whether it is possible to be a single guy without using porn. I'm 29 years of living proof. Never had a need for it. I invite you to join me, but on your own "high horse." This knight will be needing his "high horse" to find Mrs. Right.
Bigger picture | 1:04 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
This long conversation is mostly in line with the increasingly popular deceptive
belief that sex is somehow just a form of recreation, and somehow either a right
or necessary to health.
Many live healthy celibate lives for any of several reasons.
Yes, it's a temptation, but that also means we have Choice, the most sacred gift we have been given.
Sex, the opportunity to create other children, is the second most sacred gift we were given by the Perfect Parent.
The most important instruction we were given is to love, and that may not even include physical intimacy. Love solves all the other problems, eliminates the need for all the rationalizing we've read here.
Many live healthy celibate lives for any of several reasons.
Yes, it's a temptation, but that also means we have Choice, the most sacred gift we have been given.
Sex, the opportunity to create other children, is the second most sacred gift we were given by the Perfect Parent.
The most important instruction we were given is to love, and that may not even include physical intimacy. Love solves all the other problems, eliminates the need for all the rationalizing we've read here.
RE: Anonymous 10:26 | 1:04 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
To Anonymous 10:26
I always love when people quote statistics without any proof. You want to provide a source for your stats about Provo having the highest porn use?
I would guess most people, LDS or not, know deep down inside that porn use is destroying some part of them, but they just refuse to admit it and instead choose to justify it. We are a society of addicts with low self-control. Just look at the number of obese people. The question is, how do we change it?
I always love when people quote statistics without any proof. You want to provide a source for your stats about Provo having the highest porn use?
I would guess most people, LDS or not, know deep down inside that porn use is destroying some part of them, but they just refuse to admit it and instead choose to justify it. We are a society of addicts with low self-control. Just look at the number of obese people. The question is, how do we change it?
A Mormon | 1:13 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
to Jake. I am a Mormon, I am 82 years old, I have been a member of the Church
for 46 years and I do not watch porn. I have not been a member of the Church Of
Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints all my life. I joined The Church when I was 35
years old, porn has been around since I was young, but I never found it
desirable, and have never looked at it. I still find it to be offensive. but I
am one of those who believes we ARE what we watch and read.
Brad | 1:18 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Here is an irony. BYU used to use hard core pornography as part of shock
aversion therapy to get homosexuals to go straight.
I think that porn is not well understood. People like to say that it either harmful or beneficial often to support their own personal convictions, but the fact of the matter is that it can argued both ways.
There appear to be many cases in which porn has consumed lives and ruined them. However not all who view porn are necessarily addicted to it and it does not necessarily ruin their lives. I would bet there are a lot of bishops and stake presidents who view porn with some regularity and manage to conceal it. Could you imagine the consequences if they came out and admitted it. There are reasons that Dallin H. Oaks has said that pornography viewing is not a good justification for divorce as many more fundamentalist and doctrinaire Mormons would like to believe.
I think that porn is not well understood. People like to say that it either harmful or beneficial often to support their own personal convictions, but the fact of the matter is that it can argued both ways.
There appear to be many cases in which porn has consumed lives and ruined them. However not all who view porn are necessarily addicted to it and it does not necessarily ruin their lives. I would bet there are a lot of bishops and stake presidents who view porn with some regularity and manage to conceal it. Could you imagine the consequences if they came out and admitted it. There are reasons that Dallin H. Oaks has said that pornography viewing is not a good justification for divorce as many more fundamentalist and doctrinaire Mormons would like to believe.
Anonymous | 1:21 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
OK, Alarming... the google "study" you refer to is merely a tally of
key word searches. The fact that Utah comes up frequently on the word
"pornography" (what you are referring to) is not necessarily because
Utahns look at more pornography, it could be because those who are searching for
it are more naive about it (i.e., they look at it less). If you look at
trends.google.com under "porn" instead of "pornography" you
will see a very different list:
1. Kentucky, United States
2. Michigan, United States
3. Louisiana, United States
4. Ohio, United States
5. Florida, United States
6. Oklahoma, United States
7. Pennsylvania, United States
8. Missouri, United States
9. Connecticut, United States
10.Indiana, United States
Let's be realistic about drawing such blanket conclusions.
1. Kentucky, United States
2. Michigan, United States
3. Louisiana, United States
4. Ohio, United States
5. Florida, United States
6. Oklahoma, United States
7. Pennsylvania, United States
8. Missouri, United States
9. Connecticut, United States
10.Indiana, United States
Let's be realistic about drawing such blanket conclusions.
Sub-Odeon | 1:21 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I agree with much of what "enough is enough" writes, as an LDS Bishop,
but would remind the audience that the only time a Bishop gets involved with
porn is when it's obviously gotten out of control. Since all a Bishop
potentially ever sees or hears about porn is the Worst Case Scenarios, of course
his view on the subject is going to be rather dim.
Much depends on the personalities involved, and the kind of porn being viewed. There is a huge difference between Maxim or Playboy at the "soft" end, and 'rape' porn, savage BDSM, and other stuff on the internet that is at the extreme "hard" end.
Soft porn has been an American staple since at least World War Two, with its bomber beauties and pin-up queens. How many LDS households still get the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue? Or the Victoria's Secret Lingerie Catalog?
In many ways, "porn" is in the eye of the beholder. A stuffy, repressed person sees a skirt above the knee and screams, "PORN!"
I feel bad for the stuffy, repressed person. Especially in the church. I do not believe Christ wants us to fear sex or our bodies.
Much depends on the personalities involved, and the kind of porn being viewed. There is a huge difference between Maxim or Playboy at the "soft" end, and 'rape' porn, savage BDSM, and other stuff on the internet that is at the extreme "hard" end.
Soft porn has been an American staple since at least World War Two, with its bomber beauties and pin-up queens. How many LDS households still get the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue? Or the Victoria's Secret Lingerie Catalog?
In many ways, "porn" is in the eye of the beholder. A stuffy, repressed person sees a skirt above the knee and screams, "PORN!"
I feel bad for the stuffy, repressed person. Especially in the church. I do not believe Christ wants us to fear sex or our bodies.
Anonymous | 1:24 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I believe the above story. I've observed someone who's behavior gets
very rude at times. He's impossible to talk to. I don't know if
he's possessed, but he sure is a grouch. I think it's during those
times when he looks at dirty pix. Porn is stupid. It's just pictures of
naked people in very dehumanizing positions. It's ugly. It portrays human
beings as objects without a mind, personality, or soul. No wonder serial
killers and child abusers are porn addicts. They look at people, usually women
and children as stupid objects they can play with and destroy. Remember that
evil guy who killed the cute five year old girl about a year ago? When caught,
he said that he's the poster child of what looking at porn can do.
Anonymous | 1:26 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Its always good to see that ignorance still abounds in SLC.
As always, it is better to blame someone or something else for society's demise. No one can figure out that is not porn, or television, or alchohol.
The problems exist because there are too may closed minds that point fingers. Those that take resposibility for their own lives rarely find any of this a problem. Those that insist on minding my business ususually find it a problem
Wake up, pull your heads from the sand and make an intellegent decision on what is right or wrong based on facts, not opinions.
As always, it is better to blame someone or something else for society's demise. No one can figure out that is not porn, or television, or alchohol.
The problems exist because there are too may closed minds that point fingers. Those that take resposibility for their own lives rarely find any of this a problem. Those that insist on minding my business ususually find it a problem
Wake up, pull your heads from the sand and make an intellegent decision on what is right or wrong based on facts, not opinions.
to: Arm of Orion | 1:26 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Perhaps you mean 100% of serial killers *who commit sexual crimes*.....?
Because there are examples of serial killers in the annuals who have not been linked with pornography.
I would also guess that other addictions (drugs, alcohol, anger, etc) also have played heavily into this.
Addiction IN GENERAL may be a common thread.
Because there are examples of serial killers in the annuals who have not been linked with pornography.
I would also guess that other addictions (drugs, alcohol, anger, etc) also have played heavily into this.
Addiction IN GENERAL may be a common thread.
Easy to answer | 1:28 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Anonymous | 12:00 p.m.
Several physiology studies have been done.
Porn increases one of the chemicals in the brain, just like heroin, and decreases the receptors, so it takes more to stimulate the pleasure center, just like heroin and caffeine (and Twinkies).
You can find the research on the 'net, but be aware it is harder to find than documents rationalizing and/or selling the problem. Follow the money, it's megabucks.
As for 'not being addicted' - I've watched family members for years telling everyone they can quit __________ (fill in the blank) anytime.
The people around you know: your credibility is shot.
Several physiology studies have been done.
Porn increases one of the chemicals in the brain, just like heroin, and decreases the receptors, so it takes more to stimulate the pleasure center, just like heroin and caffeine (and Twinkies).
You can find the research on the 'net, but be aware it is harder to find than documents rationalizing and/or selling the problem. Follow the money, it's megabucks.
As for 'not being addicted' - I've watched family members for years telling everyone they can quit __________ (fill in the blank) anytime.
The people around you know: your credibility is shot.
Sub-Odeon | 1:29 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Arm of Orion,
I am not sure I understand the question. Are you saying we should each be free to seek pleasure so long as it does not involve the abuse of other persons? Or are you asking a rhetorical, as a way to bemoan that fact that we have become a largely selfish and pleasure-driven society?
Please clarify.
I am not sure I understand the question. Are you saying we should each be free to seek pleasure so long as it does not involve the abuse of other persons? Or are you asking a rhetorical, as a way to bemoan that fact that we have become a largely selfish and pleasure-driven society?
Please clarify.
Skeptic | 1:34 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
This is a very interesting discussion. Nobody is denying there may be
"spiritual" consequences from porn but it is a very different issue
from evidence of causing social ills such as sexual abuse and serial murder. The
place to teach against porn is in churches and homes. (And by that I don't
mean it shouldn't be talked about here.)
Shara | 1:35 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
All I can say is that I am totally fascinated by the dialogue on this subject.
Hearing people's arguments in either direction is quite a commentary on the
state of the world and the battles we wage. Let it be known that my view is
against pornography.
Sub-Odeon | 1:37 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
single guy wrote, "Porn does not have a place in a healthy
lifestyle,"
OK. On the surface, this is a laudable sentiment.
However, what about....
1) Couples who use "better sex" videos, or the many sex therapy and sex-enhancement books, all of which contain graphic sexual imagery, stories, how-to's, etc. Technically, they're using porn. But if it enhances the relationship and strengthens the marriage, can it not be said that this "porn" has produced a net positive, not only for the couple, but society as well?
2) Victoria's Secret or other lingerie catalogs. I know more than a few people who consider this "porn" but again, within the bounds of marriage, can it not be said that if lingerie or other sex products bring hapiness and fulfillment to the couple, then these products are a net positive?
3) Someone further up the thread pointed out he uses porn in isolated instances to produce semen for a medical procedure so he and his wife can have a child. A net positive, yes?
I guess my point is, there are valid exceptions to the "Porn is bad!" rule.
OK. On the surface, this is a laudable sentiment.
However, what about....
1) Couples who use "better sex" videos, or the many sex therapy and sex-enhancement books, all of which contain graphic sexual imagery, stories, how-to's, etc. Technically, they're using porn. But if it enhances the relationship and strengthens the marriage, can it not be said that this "porn" has produced a net positive, not only for the couple, but society as well?
2) Victoria's Secret or other lingerie catalogs. I know more than a few people who consider this "porn" but again, within the bounds of marriage, can it not be said that if lingerie or other sex products bring hapiness and fulfillment to the couple, then these products are a net positive?
3) Someone further up the thread pointed out he uses porn in isolated instances to produce semen for a medical procedure so he and his wife can have a child. A net positive, yes?
I guess my point is, there are valid exceptions to the "Porn is bad!" rule.
Sub-Odeon | 1:44 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Paperboy | 12:32 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007,
EXCELLENT COMMENTARY! I agree 100%
My wife and I have discussed this often. We're temple-married, in the SLC temple in fact, and we've often thought that half the problem with sex in the U.S. is that the U.S. society has an immature, love-hate conception of sex. We try to act like it doesn't exist, and shove it away, and make it evil and a vice and a product of the Adversary, then we turn around and satiate our natural needs through artificial means. And we have the nerve to be surprised that porn is such a whopping huge business, especially in "conservative" parts of the country, like Utah.
Contrary to what some on this thread might believe, I think sex is NOT just for procreation. And no, love along does not suffice. Not for most marriages. While the man and woman are young and sexually active, sexual gratification is a natural and HEALTHY desire. It's not evil. It's not wrong. Men (and women) are that they might have joy. Sex is part of that. To deny this is to deny part of God's gift, in that our bodies were made for cleaving.
EXCELLENT COMMENTARY! I agree 100%
My wife and I have discussed this often. We're temple-married, in the SLC temple in fact, and we've often thought that half the problem with sex in the U.S. is that the U.S. society has an immature, love-hate conception of sex. We try to act like it doesn't exist, and shove it away, and make it evil and a vice and a product of the Adversary, then we turn around and satiate our natural needs through artificial means. And we have the nerve to be surprised that porn is such a whopping huge business, especially in "conservative" parts of the country, like Utah.
Contrary to what some on this thread might believe, I think sex is NOT just for procreation. And no, love along does not suffice. Not for most marriages. While the man and woman are young and sexually active, sexual gratification is a natural and HEALTHY desire. It's not evil. It's not wrong. Men (and women) are that they might have joy. Sex is part of that. To deny this is to deny part of God's gift, in that our bodies were made for cleaving.
Anonymous | 2:20 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I knew a man who was addicted to porn/sex. He started when he was young. It
ruined his relationships. He abused all the women he knew with his demented view
of them because of porn. He requires his spouse (he has had several) to perform
for him. He started out with soft porn and moved into hard porn. He cannot view
women in any respectful way. He states he cannot have "good" sex
unless the movies are on at the time. His therapist says he will never be cured.
He is not an exception but the rule.
Arm of Orion | 2:22 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
My question was rhetorical to a point but I also wanted to know how far is
healthy. Look at ancient Rome they had massive orgies for cryin' out loud.
Is this a way of release or just crazy? A lot of people take their sexual
release from watching child porn is this right?
I hate how we have become a pleasure driven society but I hate it when we repress ourselves so much we can live a life.
I hate how we have become a pleasure driven society but I hate it when we repress ourselves so much we can live a life.
Addicted | 2:26 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I am a recovering Porn Addict and I can say that it has been destructive in all
aspects of my life. I've lost two jobs because of it, I almost lost my
wife and kids and I have virtually no self-respect. Is it ok for society to
accept it? Not in my opinion. Was it right for me to go into it? No way. Did
I start on my own, no, I was abused and it was the centerpiece of the abuse but
I can't blame the perpetrator, I can only blame myself for perpetuating the
problem over all the years. I did everything to hide it, lies, lies and more
lies. Is this a religious issue, or a community issue? It is definately a
community issue with the greatest amount of help coming from a loving wife and
family and a supportive church. This scourge transcends every religion. Social
Ills? Very much so in the neglect of the family and the cost to employers and
social groups alike. When are we as a group going to work to stop this problem
or are going to just talk about it and feel better about ourselves?
Football Is Life | 2:47 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Like death, porn touches everyone in many ways...if you choose hands on, or off,
the choice will always be yours--Period!!!
Concerned Parent | 2:56 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I have read the article twice. I have ready many of the comments here twice.
Some agree and others don't. What I find troubling is those who think
it's ok. If you daughter, mother or wife we doing those things or your
father, son or husband were doing those things to make a quick buck would we all
say that's ok. The addiction the feeling of filth none of this is good.
Not to mention the spread of diseases. Please wake up and leave the world a
better place than we have it now. If you would let or agree with a loved one
participating in this industry, and be proud of them and tell all your friends I
am so proud of them. Who would not feel dissapointed. I know I would. We all
can choose but let's not push that on to other people. It is a real fine
line.
Healthy Porn?? | 3:05 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
There is no such thing as healthy porn. Saying that some porn is healthy is
like saying that a beer quenches thirst(beer dehydrates the body). Or that
snorting a little cocaine is OK, as long as you don't let it become a habit
and control you.
Pornography is the perfect drug:
1-Extremely addictive
2-Easy to access
3-Free - hardcore videos can be accessed within seconds
4-Anonymous - nobody else can know(except you andGod)
These factors make porn an ideal tool for LDS people to become addicted to porn. There is much pressure placed on LDS, or better said- the LDS place a ton of pressure on themselves, expecting to be perfect. When they mess up it is easy to believe that you are "less than" which is a tool of the devil. The definition an addiction is that the user turns to the substance or behavior to mask emotional pain as a coping mechanism. It's addictive because the chemical reactions that occur during orgasm are extreme senses and act like a drug in the body.
There is help! Check out the LifeStar network for treatment. Stay away from porn. Wise people have told us, it is like a plague.
Pornography is the perfect drug:
1-Extremely addictive
2-Easy to access
3-Free - hardcore videos can be accessed within seconds
4-Anonymous - nobody else can know(except you andGod)
These factors make porn an ideal tool for LDS people to become addicted to porn. There is much pressure placed on LDS, or better said- the LDS place a ton of pressure on themselves, expecting to be perfect. When they mess up it is easy to believe that you are "less than" which is a tool of the devil. The definition an addiction is that the user turns to the substance or behavior to mask emotional pain as a coping mechanism. It's addictive because the chemical reactions that occur during orgasm are extreme senses and act like a drug in the body.
There is help! Check out the LifeStar network for treatment. Stay away from porn. Wise people have told us, it is like a plague.
To Sub-Odeon | 3:07 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Justify it all you want. What on Earth did Adam and Eve do without your
so-called valid exceptions to use Porn? Give me a break! Porn is not necessary.
Love, sex, and even those who want to procreate can thrive without porn under any circumstances in any healthy marriage.
Love, sex, and even those who want to procreate can thrive without porn under any circumstances in any healthy marriage.
utah porno czar | 3:11 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
don't we still have a paid office for that. my friends say utah is the most
sexually frustrated state they know of and that it correlates with depression
but as for me i feel good! like a bufalo.So maybe my boyscout friend was rigth
with his books under his mattress while the rest us refered to him as the troop
hugh hefner. darn. and what was byu students doing doing this study..my friends
in Iowa are snatching up on this one! But it could help Mitt too!
RE: Sub-Odeon | 3:14 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Would you prefer the water at the head of the fountain or down stream? Your
comments are ignorant from the stand point of what a bishop sees. I know if
someone is into porn before any confession is made to me. I see it in it's
beginning stages and in it's destructive stages. You have assumed that I
only see EXTREME cases. The clues come from social interaction with family and
friends. You mention the reaction depends on the personality... EVERY
PERSONALITY is to a greater or lesser degree adversely affected because it is
adverse. You describe levels of porn soft and hard... If you drink at the
fountains head you are free from polutants. If you drink downstream you have
ingested something foreign and are at risk. One can play Russian Roulette all
they want with it, but if you can't seem to put it away, you have a
problem. You can't roll around in "clean mud" and wonder why your
filthy. Good begats good... The person is never condemned, just the
behavior...which can be changed as long as there is breath in your body.
cyberhor | 3:21 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
i pity the majority of the true perception of the beauty of the women in the
future one sees the belittleing of women in the media already this will only
grow worse that guy who tied his woman to the engine now this..whoever marries
either one of my dauhters will have to run the gauntlet, and best know how to
fight as we are all boxers here! they have already sent a few dates home dazed!
ttaaaannkk
jazzlizard | 3:28 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Excellent post Sub. Don't you find it interesting though that the US is
often the highest among civilized nations when it comes to teen pregnancies?
Maybe sex is indeed looked at in the wrong light.
Cheetos | 3:34 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
If you get rid of porn, the makers of Cheetos won't have as many people
buying their snacks.
Geek | 3:35 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
I personally have no problem with pornography. I understand why people believe
it to be destructive and choose to stay away from it. Every choice of ours
affects us both good and bad. It is up to us to decide for ourselves what is
right and wrong ONLY for ourselves. We may have similarities, but we are all
different in our thinking. Who is to say one's thoughts and morals are
better than another's?
We all just need to accept and respect everyone and what they believe in or do. Acceptance and respect does not mean you have to believe or participate, but rather not to view that person or group negatively. It is hard for anyone to do, including myself. However, I find this to be the greatest quality we could strive for as a society, whether we are religious or not.
I wish for a day when society will be more accepting.
We all just need to accept and respect everyone and what they believe in or do. Acceptance and respect does not mean you have to believe or participate, but rather not to view that person or group negatively. It is hard for anyone to do, including myself. However, I find this to be the greatest quality we could strive for as a society, whether we are religious or not.
I wish for a day when society will be more accepting.
2 bits | 3:40 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
To those saying Porn has "Helped them considearbly" or "A great
release for those without a girlfriend or a wife"...
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
it is destructive | 3:41 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
just ask all the clergy including that real live stake president on state
street..it drove them to do irrational things past what is normal for a person
in a position of trust. good article helps to keep it real even though we migth
think we have advanced we really haven't in controlling the carnel..maybe
my uncle was rigth , dont let so so run the mind.
Addicted | 3:46 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Re: Geek
"I wish for a day when society will be more accepting. " OK, where do you say then, that we start drawing the line between acceptance and abhorrance to something that we find offensive and you find stimulating? Where is your accepting spirt to those who disagree with you? I used to feel the same way you do, but I have seen first hand, the destruction of porn and I am still fighting the "Demons" inside. Am I accepting? I feel that I am, but I also feel that I have a responsibility to say that IT IS WRONG FOR ALL! Now, since you are a member of society I wish for the day that you will be more accepting of me and my hatred for this very monster!
"I wish for a day when society will be more accepting. " OK, where do you say then, that we start drawing the line between acceptance and abhorrance to something that we find offensive and you find stimulating? Where is your accepting spirt to those who disagree with you? I used to feel the same way you do, but I have seen first hand, the destruction of porn and I am still fighting the "Demons" inside. Am I accepting? I feel that I am, but I also feel that I have a responsibility to say that IT IS WRONG FOR ALL! Now, since you are a member of society I wish for the day that you will be more accepting of me and my hatred for this very monster!
ok, | 3:50 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
just visit any strip bar, ten to one alot of those girls are former members who
run the spectrum..sad but true, so they weren't true..it is a scary
industry, one sees it all, power, lust , money, spirit manipulation so watch
your hoods..as some of these guys are scary...just a little note from someone
who found the the gosple and not mormon.
RE: Addicted - 2:26 | 3:52 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Thanks for sharing your story. First let me say that it is my opinion that this
stuff is evil and addicting. It has potential to be devastating to peoples
lives. But So do alot of things. addiction to drugs and alcohol have ruined
marriages and lives. Living beyond financial means (addiction to material
things), overindulgence in hobbies/professional pursuits and other
addictions/habits/what have you, have also ruined marriages and lives.
My concern is the stigma that people who get caught up in this live under in our LDS community. There needs to be sensitivity to people like "Addicted" who feel a loss of self asteem and feel like sub-humans because of this habit. We don't need to embrace the practice, but we do need to embrace the individuals affected by it. I don't think that living under a constant shroud of shame inspires anyone to be a better person.
We need appropriate education and temperence in order to effectively address this issue in our community. I think that parents in this day and age need to find a tactful and loving way to educate their children.
Obviously, We should also remember the innocent victims of this garbage (Children and Spouses).
My concern is the stigma that people who get caught up in this live under in our LDS community. There needs to be sensitivity to people like "Addicted" who feel a loss of self asteem and feel like sub-humans because of this habit. We don't need to embrace the practice, but we do need to embrace the individuals affected by it. I don't think that living under a constant shroud of shame inspires anyone to be a better person.
We need appropriate education and temperence in order to effectively address this issue in our community. I think that parents in this day and age need to find a tactful and loving way to educate their children.
Obviously, We should also remember the innocent victims of this garbage (Children and Spouses).
Personal Insight | 3:52 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Porn is NOT OK. There is nothing good that comes from it. HOWEVER, it DOES NOT
mean that you are a bad person, sick in the head, or perverted. Porn is an
easily accessible way to indulge in sexual release. Every person needs to have
sexual release. I am a 28 year old male and Mormon. There was a time when I
considered myself an addict. Other times I have not indulged at all. I can
tell you that it does skew your perception of women and it does distance you
from those who love you whether you like it or not. There are many ill symptoms
that come from binging on Porn. I am no longer addicted, but still do get
tempted on occasion, even though I have a beautiful, non-judgmental wife. I am
more deeply connected with my wife when I do everything in my power to avoid
looking at pornography. I also believe that pornography should not be swept
under the rug. Its effects should be recognized and treated understanding that
every human is prone to a sexual temptation and they should not be looked down
upon for it, rather, reach out to those who struggle.
Sub-Odeon | 3:54 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Arm of Orion,
You and I are of similar mind, I think.
Rome fell partially because of its indulgences. When any society becomes overindulgent, in food, sex, luxury, vice, I think they are tempting ruin. Certainly the United States is at that point. People are so concerned with protecting their petty indulgences and legitimizing themselves, we have largely lost the ability to see ourselves clearly, and we know not when we're doing real wrong.
But as you say, repression is not the answer. With this I also agree. Because just as overindulgence is a bad thing, so too is false denial, state suppression of personal freedoms, etc. Morality cannot be mandated. That's what the Islamists want: a mandated and strictly-enforced morality, and look at how horrid and backward their societies can be, when the hard-liners take over and begin beating women for showing an ankle or failing to wear the burqa.
I would like to see the U.S. navigate a middle road. No state-mandated morality, but rather, a return to a higher sense of personal morality and responsibility, along with a deeper understanding of what it means to truly be MORAL.
You and I are of similar mind, I think.
Rome fell partially because of its indulgences. When any society becomes overindulgent, in food, sex, luxury, vice, I think they are tempting ruin. Certainly the United States is at that point. People are so concerned with protecting their petty indulgences and legitimizing themselves, we have largely lost the ability to see ourselves clearly, and we know not when we're doing real wrong.
But as you say, repression is not the answer. With this I also agree. Because just as overindulgence is a bad thing, so too is false denial, state suppression of personal freedoms, etc. Morality cannot be mandated. That's what the Islamists want: a mandated and strictly-enforced morality, and look at how horrid and backward their societies can be, when the hard-liners take over and begin beating women for showing an ankle or failing to wear the burqa.
I would like to see the U.S. navigate a middle road. No state-mandated morality, but rather, a return to a higher sense of personal morality and responsibility, along with a deeper understanding of what it means to truly be MORAL.
Sub-Odeon | 4:00 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Addicted,
It sounds to me like you have externalized the "enemy", when in fact the "enemy" cannot be externalized. Porn is merely a vehicle. The real battle is going on inside you, and while you might say that porn is wrong and destructive for all, evidence suggests that not every person who comes into contact with porn, or even indulges, has their life destroyed.
Me, I overindulged as a teen. Later, it caused some issues in my marriage. I learned to limit myself, cut back, and above all else, to be honest with my spouse about it. She doesn't tell me no, I can't have it. But she also works to understand what attracts me to porn, and we integrate certain sexual play elements into our sex lives so that I am getting what I need from my partner, not from an image on a TV or computer screen. Nothing bizarre, mind you. A little lingerie. Some body oil. Harmless fun stuff that I'd seen, and wanted for my own sex life.
Again, I think you have externalized things too much, and I hope you and your spouse are able to work on a better understanding of your issues.
It sounds to me like you have externalized the "enemy", when in fact the "enemy" cannot be externalized. Porn is merely a vehicle. The real battle is going on inside you, and while you might say that porn is wrong and destructive for all, evidence suggests that not every person who comes into contact with porn, or even indulges, has their life destroyed.
Me, I overindulged as a teen. Later, it caused some issues in my marriage. I learned to limit myself, cut back, and above all else, to be honest with my spouse about it. She doesn't tell me no, I can't have it. But she also works to understand what attracts me to porn, and we integrate certain sexual play elements into our sex lives so that I am getting what I need from my partner, not from an image on a TV or computer screen. Nothing bizarre, mind you. A little lingerie. Some body oil. Harmless fun stuff that I'd seen, and wanted for my own sex life.
Again, I think you have externalized things too much, and I hope you and your spouse are able to work on a better understanding of your issues.
Another Anonymous | 4:02 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Just in my lifetime, Porn has gone from magazines under the counter at 7-11 that
you had to ask for with pictures of topless women to explicit videos of acts
that most of us wouldn't even care to think about that can be downloaded to
any teenagers cell phone or Ipod.
I don't see any way that can be spun as a positive trend.
Every study I have ever seen says that porn numbs it's consumers into needing more and more extreme and explicit images until the only thing that excites them is content that would have horrified them when they started their habit.
I do agree that societies-especially conservative ones-could do a better job explaining how sexuality is a vital, honorable, even critical part of a healthy marital relationship. It's hard to go from "don't do anything" to "do everything, it's OK now" at the flip of a wedding ceremony. But that's a conversation for another thread, perhaps.
I don't see any way that can be spun as a positive trend.
Every study I have ever seen says that porn numbs it's consumers into needing more and more extreme and explicit images until the only thing that excites them is content that would have horrified them when they started their habit.
I do agree that societies-especially conservative ones-could do a better job explaining how sexuality is a vital, honorable, even critical part of a healthy marital relationship. It's hard to go from "don't do anything" to "do everything, it's OK now" at the flip of a wedding ceremony. But that's a conversation for another thread, perhaps.
Sub-Odeon | 4:06 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
One other comment, regarding fitness.
Only one person on this thread has addressed the fact that physical attractiveness is both valid, and important, in a marriage. She rightly pointed out that her husband is hot, that this is a good thing, and that she appreciates it.
Obesity and bad exercise habits are a big problem in Utah. When one or both spouses let their bodies go, is it any wonder their sex lives fall apart? I know of one very-devout LDS woman who has guiltily turned to gay porn, because her husband's body is a dump and she's desperate to see men with good physiques. Gay porn provides, even though she knows it's a vice and is wrong.
If her husband would get his butt into the gym and press some iron, maybe his spouse would not feel like she has to see other avenues?
Maybe if more wives, especially after childbirth, hit the gym and did aerobics and stayed fit, fewer husbands would seek other avenues?
Wanting to be attractive to your mate, and actually being attractive to your mate, are two different things. Saying it is empty. Doing it? That takes work.
Do the work, Utahns!
Only one person on this thread has addressed the fact that physical attractiveness is both valid, and important, in a marriage. She rightly pointed out that her husband is hot, that this is a good thing, and that she appreciates it.
Obesity and bad exercise habits are a big problem in Utah. When one or both spouses let their bodies go, is it any wonder their sex lives fall apart? I know of one very-devout LDS woman who has guiltily turned to gay porn, because her husband's body is a dump and she's desperate to see men with good physiques. Gay porn provides, even though she knows it's a vice and is wrong.
If her husband would get his butt into the gym and press some iron, maybe his spouse would not feel like she has to see other avenues?
Maybe if more wives, especially after childbirth, hit the gym and did aerobics and stayed fit, fewer husbands would seek other avenues?
Wanting to be attractive to your mate, and actually being attractive to your mate, are two different things. Saying it is empty. Doing it? That takes work.
Do the work, Utahns!
Vox O'Reason | 4:38 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007
Two comments, if I may: First, the notion that porn is demeaning in any way is
pretty subjective. I recall an old quote from some porn actress who said
something along the lines of, "All this talk about how porn is demeaning to
women or whatever, I think is plain silly. I enjoy what I do for a living and I
make good money. I would find it totally demeaning to work in fast food for
minimum wage, but I see nothing demeaning about consensual sex in front of a
camera." And second, where are the parents in all this, anyways? Some of us
have decided *not* to handicap ourselves with the overwhelming responsibility of
bringing new bodies into the world, and we would prefer not to be told what we
can or cannot do with our own lives just because other people *do* have kids!
Anyone ever hear of the V-Chip, by chance? If you don't want to see porn or
whatever else, that's totally fine, but keeping adult things away from kids
is a *parental* responsibility, and parents need to stop blaming other people
and the larger society for their failures!
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What's missing in all these rantings about addicts, is that addiction is two-thirds personality.
And for the addictive personality, anything can become a "fix". Could be porn, since that excites the addict sexually. It could also be binge shopping at the mall. Or gambling. Or over-eating, especially sugary junk. How many of you ranting against porn addicts, can't stop shoving Lil' Debbies in your mouths all day long and are 20 to 70 pounds too heavy??
In the end, I think America's porn "problem" is a byproduct of America's sex "problem". If we were healthier and more functional, culturally, on sex, the porn would probably be a non-issue. But since we inherited the Puritan doctrine on sex, and sexual urges have to find an outlet somewhere, we turn down avenues that satiate us.
My hope is that the emergence of "acceptable porn" morphs into a broader emergence of men and women realizing sex and sexual fulfillment are a natural part of life; like exercise and eating healthy. Especially among couples. When one or both couples aren't fulfilled, that sexual desire still persists. Why are we shocked that porn has filled the void?