Deseret News | Pundit bashes Mitt, Mormons

Reader comments
Scott D. Pierce: Pundit bashes Mitt, Mormons

281 comments | Read story

Anonymous | 9:30 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Seems to me there are a lot of posers out there. Those who are mormons posing as Catholics, jews and Christians and non-mormons posing as lds on these comment boards. Both with hidden agendas.

Rob W | 9:40 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Wow. What a rant. Where there's that kind of force of emotion and border-line hatemongering, there's a story behind the story. Somewhere, somehow there's more to this than some guy's opinion. Hopefully a hungry reporter can do some background.

Why Care?? | 9:48 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

I'm not LDS but if you have something that you believe to be pure, true and wonderful why would you care what anyone says about it???

Comments continue below

Re:gary | 10:15 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Hey Gary, there are alot of relgious institutions that feel the same way about same sex marriage as the LDS church. Go be angry at them too.

To all those that say "the Mormons believe they have the only true church", well, South Park says it too, so it must be right.

Why can't people have their beliefs without being attacked by others? I read a comment above that stated that claims that Romney is running on his religion. Not true. The media has made it an issue, and he has had to address it. Anyway, what would be so wrong with a moral person running this country, been a while since that has happened.

Do not forget the reason why. | 10:16 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Remember, you chose this time to be here. You are valiant. Remember what you were taught. Enough said.

You may never know | 10:17 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Someone gave in to the dark side here and is holding onto their hate. Until you get past your Mormonophobic prejudices and preconceived fantasies it will be really difficult for you to obtain a testimony of the restored Gospel. You are going to have to calm down, take a few deep breaths, and just listen to the still small voice. Listen, listen.

Until then, you will always be on the outside pointing a finger of scorn at the hundreds of thousands of good people taken-in each year by this unorthodox yet perhaps the most Christ centered Church on the face of the earth. As long as you think the Church is after all your money you will never realize the blessings millions experience from paying an honest tithing, and giving hundreds and thousands of hours of Christ-like service each year to their fellow man, and you may miss the good this Church is doing feeding the hungry, helping disaster victims around the world with all that money, mending the broken hearted, and helping ease the burdens of those hostage to many addictions. You will never know the joy. You will never realize the feeling of Luke 24:32.

Those attacking O'Donnell are hy | 10:18 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

We must never forget that what Mr. O'Donnell said wasn't completely inaccurate instead what he said was mostly accurate. This doesn't mean that Joseph Smith were the things he called him but how is this different than all those here who are calling him a bigot, fool, etc. for what he said. It seems that in their mind he's wrong to have said these things about the Church even though its based on some truth but its entirely okay for them to say such things about O'Donnell when its based on their opinion. The hypocrisy is clear.

We need to look at this objectively and realize that O'Donnell was reacting towards the Church the way he is now being treated. Did we not deny blacks the priesthood until 1978? The answer is yes. Did that make us racist? That is a matter of opinion and O'Donnell has the right to have that opinion just like those here have the right to believe he is a bigot. But apparently its wrong for him to believe someone is a racist based on their conduct but okay for these hypocrites to believe he is a bigot based on his conduct.

Boku | 10:31 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

"Why Care??" makes a good point. Recall Joseph's recitation of the words spoken to him by Moroni.

"He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people."

But on the other hand, the fulfillment of some prophecies are harder to accept serenely than others, the rejection of Jesus by Israel being a prime example. So it's natural to be upset when Joseph or the church is slandered.

But lest we forget, from Brother Brigham, "Every time you kick 'Mormonism' you kick it upstairs; you never kick it downstairs."

Contrary to Mr. West Wing's intent, his words will drive interest into people to investigate the subject more fully, especially those who are the honest in heart.

And contrary to Bob from Texas's wish, the stone will continue to roll.

dave 4197 | 10:37 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Scott, if you want to make a difference, get your article in front of some national news agencies. Larry ODonnell should get a discipline similar to Don Imus for instance, for making such hate based and erroneous claims.

What? | 10:40 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

If you don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God then what real power was actually being withheld from the blacks? Do you even know what the Priesthood is in the LDS Church, or what they do with it? It doesn't come with any money, that's for sure. Just a lot of responsibility. Interested?

If you do believe Joseph Smith could have been a prophet of God, then don't you think evil minded people, like those who killed prophets throughout the ages, would try to smear his name and spread lies about him until the cows come home in an effort to keep gullible people from giving it any serious consideration? I guess to begin you will have to analyze how they are making the world a better place. They aren't going around in hate tantrums. What do they know that the tantrum makers don't?

Racist Jews | 11:52 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Don't forget the Jews of the Old Testiment. Only the house of Levi could be priets and work in the temple etc. So I guess they were racist to the other 11 tribes of the house of Isreal as well as the Blacks, Asians, Romans, Greeks and any other "Gentile". Also no women priests there as well.

And before Christ the Jews were the only ones that had the truth and God's authority. Again all the Africans, Romans, Persians, as well as all of the "Gentile" people around the world were wrong. So then all the Jews were bigots. But remember that the Jews were God's Chosen people. Funny how this all comes together so well. Did Larry mention them?

Maybe Larry is a Modern Day Saul. I think Larry's new name is going to be Harry. Who knows maybe after his vision Harry will be the next Mormon General Authority or better yet Mitt's new Campain Manager. Could happen.

Racist Jews 2 | 12:01 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Sorry but forgot the Prophets of the Old Testament that had many wives. Again chosen men of God with multiple wives who talked with God. Larry or was that Harry forgot them as well. I wonder if these are people of his faith? Maybe he has a different version of the Bible that I have. Funny how God changes so much.

Reality Police | 12:25 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

1) To Occam: You say "It is spiritually and intellectually dishonest to claim to be God's only true Church on the one hand, and then to claim religious bigotry anytime anybody attacks the veracity of those claims."

O'Donnell did not attack the veracity of the claim that it is the God's only true Church. He attacked Joseph Smith, Mitt Romney, and certain past policies of the church regarding race and polygomy.

Southern Baptists | 12:28 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

It took the Southern Baptists until what, 1985 to accept blacks into their church. I wonder why he didn't bring that up. Frankly, all the hate from both sides just makes me sad. Mormons had many black members (okay, maybe not many) and they were welcomed into the church. Baptists segregated. So why the attack on Mormonism? Frankly it doesn't make sense. He started to look like he was going to have a stroke at the end, and he kept repeating the same stupid comments. And honestly, a role on Big Love makes him an expert? An honest news show would expect their commentators to base their comments on fact, even if it for entertainment. Wouldn't they?

Reality Police | 12:37 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

2) Two definitions of bigot:

Dictionary.com: "a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion"

American Heritage Dictionary: "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ"

Based on these definitions I'm not convinced that O'Donnell is a bigot. I'm not sure, from his statements, what his own beliefs are and whether or not he is intolerant of differing beliefs. What I am sure of is that he is not well-informed in his facts about Joseph Smith and the Church. I am also sure that he is passionate in his hatred for Joseph Smith and the church's past policies on race and poligamy.

What concerns me is that many commentors on this page, many claiming to be LDS, are dangerously close to bigotry themselves.

Reality Police | 12:41 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

3) Anonymous says "In light of Joseph Smiths statement at JS 2:19 that ALL churches are an abomination and corrupt, O'Donnell doesn't seem quite so bigoted."

Joseph Smith also said, "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." (Article of Faith 11)

And that statement made it into the official scripture. Never, in all my years as a member of the church have I been encouraged to be intolerant of another's beliefs. In fact, my experience has been just the opposite. If you are finding LDS members displaying bigoted attitudes (which, unfortunately, I'm sure you are), the responsibility for it is on them, not the church or its teachings.

Too Bad | 1:10 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Although I don't believe that there should be bigotry in the world, unfortunately there is. And the majority of it is rooted in religious bigotry. The LDS Church is no different either, all religions are guilty of looking down their noses at others that are outside of their social and religious norms. Wouldn't the world be a better place if all people would learn to accept one another, regardless of the race, color, sexual identity, wealth and faith? There is far to much intolerance and social injustice from all people. We of the LDS faith are just as guilty too. We all are guilty, and need to become more tolerant of others.

To Bob In Texas | 1:11 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

You will fade away long before the LDS Church will. And it goes to show that you're about as "educated" about the Church as O'Donnell.

Re: Reality | 1:39 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Just one correction, You quoted Joseph Smith wrong, it should read, "that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight..." Creeds of course, are all the non-biblical decisions made by various councils through the ages. They are non-biblical and non-binding. The creedal statements were the abomination, not the people in the many protestant churches.

That being said, I agree with your commentary. Members should behave in a more Christ-like fashion. We need to be careful not to become "anti" anti-mormons, otherwise we are no better off than our critics.

To Veronica in Orem | 2:02 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Get A LIFE!!! Hey and Mormons go to the dentist. Do you? If you don;t like living with Mormons why don't you move to a different place, like Antartica maybe that will cool you off and your judgemental statements. Cause you know what Mormons settled this great State!!

Mark from Logan | 2:03 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I am certain of at least two things:

I am a Mormon.

I am not racist.

Mark | 2:18 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I thank and give much credit to O'Donnell for having the courage and wisdom to speak publicly on an issue which has long been kept silent. Mormonism is a cult and is in no way or form Christian. Mormonism bashes all other religions and creeds stating that they are an abomination. I have studied Mormonism anbd find nothing in it that would interest me. I encourage all to read "When Salt Lake City Calls" by Hulsey (Xulon Press) O'Donnell deserves encouragement and support. His courage is to be admired.

Anonymous | 2:37 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Does anyone really care about MSNBC to begin with? And yes, who would want to have a bigoted U.S. president? Huckabee?

Either Ron Paul, Mitt Romney or Obama will get my vote. I could care less about Huckabee and Clinton and their kind that feel so inclined to make personal attacks.

To: Where do you draw the line? | 4:36 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Yes - I believe all of the things you commented on.

And I also believe that Jesus Christ and satan were and are Brothers..

In addition, I believe that you and I... and they.. are all brothers...

But it's funny, because you remind me more of our brother satan. :)

Discrim | 5:32 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Regarding the blacks and the Priesthood:
1. Christ said he was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. He instructed his disciples to go only to the Jews. (Matt. 10:5) They later went to the gentiles. Discrimination? You decide. (Blacks were denied the LDS Priesthood for a time, then were brought in later. Sound familiar?)
2.Moses was sent to free the Israelites, the "chosen people", then spent 40 years raiding and destroying other kingdoms. Were all the others the "unchosen?" Discrimination? You decide.
3. Most churches (Catholic included) deny the priesthood to women. Discrimination? You decide.
4.Christ's apostles and other leaders were all men. Discrimination? You decide.
5.All of the prophets in the Old and New Testament were men (several women were called "prophetess" but not in the same sense). Discrimination? You decide.
6.Jesus Christ, the Savior of all mankind, was a white male and a Jew. Discrimination? You decide.
7.Does God "discriminate?" YOU decide.
(Look up the true definition of "discrimination" before you decide.)

Further info | 5:49 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

You can express your displeasure at O'Donnell by Emailing Senators Bennett and Hatch. PBS is funded by congress. Just look up their web sites.

One more correction | 6:37 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

There were three black men in the first official LDS party entering the SL valley with Brigham Young.
One (or two?) held the priesthood.

Willard Watcher | 6:40 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Face it, the lds church is a little strange.

maybelle | 6:46 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I grew up in a small town in West Virginia. Blacks were not allowed inside the Baptist church where the whites attended. Blacks had a separate Baptist church. I used to stand on the sidewalk outside their church and listen to them sing. They were awesome singers.

Cynically Yours | 7:07 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Hey, if Don Imus can get back on the air as quickly as he did, what chance is there for getting a bigot like O'Donnell off the air for any length of time? Folks, get used to it. The summer of good feeling toward The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is over, or soon will be. If you read history and scripture, you should be prepared for more of the same. The prince of this world is in charge, and he isn't our friend now and never will be.

John from the UK | 7:34 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

English Cleric Sidney Smith once said that 'the best way of dealing with a bad argument is to let it go on'.

Modern Day Archie | 7:55 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

A modern day Archie Bunker looks just as foolish as the real one did on tv. I don't think the viewing public is fooled by Mr. O'Donnell's anti-Mormon rant. It's entertaining bigotry for those who love a contentious rant back and forth and enjoy watching a fool make a fool of himself. He looks just as bad as Archie did on the "All in the Family" tv show. People will shake their heads and smile. What a loon! I really doubt too many people are going to take this guy very seriously when he spouts such hate speech.

Dewaine M. Brown | 8:04 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Romans 2:1 Refers to this. "That which we see in others, we possess ourselves."

CEW | 8:11 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I personally would like to thank Mr. O'Donnell for his remarks. Because of him, more good and honest people will join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Again, thank you, and best wishes.

Granny T. | 8:27 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I live in the South and university campus here the "Campus Ministers" stand up and shout this stuff all the time. There is a really bad feeling around them. One girl questioned them and they yelled at her and told her she was going to hell. So she turned to a missionary from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, he could see she was distressed. He asked her how she felt about what the ministers and she said ï¿½I have some questions but they are so mean that I just want to leave.ï¿½ The Elder said "Can we answer any questions for you"? She said yes, that was a month ago and she is getting baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints next week. She loves the sweet peaceful feeling she has around the people at church. She said ï¿½If they are going to Hell, it must be a really good place because I love being with them.ï¿½ So you see, cream comes to the top. People are who they are.

Albert | 8:34 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

He was ufairly bashing Mormons for being racist, as in the past, most everyone was, and they have since changed. If he was going to bash Mormons, it should have been for being a non-Christian faith Cult, whose main interest is to stay Tax-Exempt, and continue to grow more "for profit" and "tax exempt" businesses, and their efforts to grow more politically and financially powerful.

ScaredOfMuslims | 8:43 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

O'Donnell has stated that he wont make negative comments toward Islam because he's afraid of their reaction. I have to say, I have had the thought a few times to surprise the anti-mormons when they are vehemently attacking me, my religion, my school (BYU),etc. Being from the South, I absolutely guarantee that if someone spewed the kind of vitriol we Mormons receive, they'd get their @$$#$ kicked, religion aside.

ESQ dude | 8:45 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Why so thin-skinned, Scott? You alone are fanning the flames and giving this guy more attention. Ignore him and move on. Also, why not jump on the very numerous Christian conservatives who are saying even more and who are more of a threat to the LDS Church than this guy will ever be. Frankly, more attacks on the LDS Church are coming from the right than from the left.

Quotes | 8:58 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

"All other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives Baptism, or the Lord's Supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people" - Orson Pratt, Mormon apostle

ï¿½The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God.ï¿½ ï¿½ Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171

ï¿½With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian worldï¿½ ï¿½ Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199

ï¿½Behold there are save two churches only: the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.ï¿½ -Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10

Quotes II | 8:58 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

"...all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." - Joseph Smith

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense...the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century" - John Taylor (Brigham Young's successor)

Outside Runner | 9:07 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

And now, a subsequent interview:

LOï¿½D: Mormons are the nicest people in the world. Theyï¿½re not going to everï¿½
HH: So you can be bigoted towards Mormons, because theyï¿½ll just send you a strudel.
LOï¿½D: Theyï¿½ll never take a shot at me. Those other people [Muslims], Iï¿½m not going to say a word about them.
HH: Theyï¿½ll send you a strudel. The Mormons will bake you a cake and be nice to you.
LOï¿½D: I agree.

As a follow-up to the interview, I wonder if this guy would feel differently if Mormons were not so closely identified with the Republican Party.... This closeness actually harms the Church around the country and the world, especially as more people identify with the other party. The GOP is a wedge against the Church.

bill | 9:09 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Lawrence O'Donnell or Rosie O'Donnell ... no difference ... consider the source.

Re: Quotes | 9:21 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Nice quotes, I am sure in context they would be even more powerful. Get a life you ANTI. Maybe Young's quotes about "Christian Faiths" still applies to you personally :)

Rich | 9:32 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

To further understand where Lawrence is coming from read his blog post at Huffington Post (type in "Huffington post Romney and me Lawrence O'Donnell" on google). He further reinforces his prejudice and ignorance evidently fueled, in part, by an inactive, disaffected member who is an associate or friend of Mr O'Donnell.

The simple answer for Democratic Part operatives bent on making a camping issue out of religious belief is to begin cleaning house with the removal of Senator Harry Reid who happens to be currently the most powerful member of Congress and also a devout member of the church.

Amused | 9:34 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Willard Watcher says, "Face it, the lds church is a little strange."

Thanks, WW, your statement is true and made me smile.

Seriously though, followers of Christ take pride in being non-mainstream - i.e. "a peculiar people" (1 Peter 2:9).

This thread has been an interesting read, though debating matters of faith via an Internet forum is very unlikely to win converts to either side. The best that can be hoped for is for truly curious folks to investigate further and exercise their faith.

Max Jamison | 9:50 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

Is he related to Rosey ODonnell? They both spout the same hate mongering.

Reality | 9:53 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

It would all be too funny if it didn't ring of so much truth and hurt. The light of day is slowly shinning on the Mormon faith and the general populace is taking sight of something different from what they imagined. It will do good if the light of day exposes all of Mormonism then we all can judge with inteligence and understanding. And the Mormon church can share its' whole history and doctrines; and those who choose can embrace the faith with understanding and not out of ignorance.

russ | 10:02 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

I am sorry that the tv guy was ill-informed. But wait for the second shoe to fall. Other commentators will closely examine Mormonism against Christianity and publish the truth. Mormons are not Christians, despite the best spinning done since 1980s. I grew up in Utah and every day I was told that Mormons were the restored church, not Christians per se. That second shoe will really sound out. Want to have some fun? Go to the library and get an old book, pre-1950s, and look up cults. Mormonism will be listed.

Poltergeist | 10:07 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

They're baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaackkkkkk..............

Still waiting... | 10:16 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

4:03 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007, "? for Occam" writes, "Occam, ... what other religions have you criticized lately? ... this goes for anyone else who is trying to discredit Mormons. I don't get it. Give me some feedback."

** crickets chirping **

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.