Deseret News | Huckabee asks if Mormons believe Jesus, Satan are brothers

Reader comments
Huckabee asks if Mormons believe Jesus, Satan are brothers

interested in explanation | 6:47 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

What is the relationship between God and Satan held by the Nicean Trinitarians, and how does it differ from the Mormon explanation? (to avoid offending anyone, maybe I'll avoid using the term "Christian" with either group)

Australian | 7:00 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Why is Romney all the talk at the moment? You had a number of serious shooting in the US where many Sons and Daughter of God have died. These politicians should be talking about gun laws, not heï¿½s a Mormon. Dam you people have your priority mixed up or are the politicians to scared of the Gun lobby. It time the US shows some gut and take control of the gun issue.

Robert | 7:56 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The Bible does say that God did create evil, Isaiah 45:7 says, "I formed the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
God did create Lucifer but it was Lucifer who chose to be evil. Isaiah 14:12-15 says, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!...For thou hast said in thine heart,...I will be like the most High."
The Bible also says that Jesus CREATED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN (Colossians 1:16).
So that would mean Jesus created Lucifer which inturn became Satan, the Devil.
So how could Jesus and Satan be brothers when Jesus created Lucifer?
The Bible says that all life is God's creation but no where does it say that all mankind are God's children.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
The Bible says we become the sons of God only by faith in Jesus. Adopted as sons, says Romans 8:15

Comments continue below

Mormon for Huckabee | 8:42 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

When did Huckabee try to "smear" the Church, and where is his question even remotely debasing?

Mike Huckabee has said very little about the Church, which Mitt Romney has used as his gimmick.

This obviously was not an unbiased article.

Californian | 8:43 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

"What is the relationship between God and Satan held by the Nicean Trinitarians..."

I don't know. Maybe they believe Satan came into being ex nihilo. What other explanation could there be, other than the obvious and only logical one, that Satan (nee Lucifer) was a fallen angel who like all angels was a creation of God? Unless they believe there was another divine force at work that made Lucifer--which would make them polytheistic, or at least henotheistic. eek!

I have no idea why the idea of Lucifer being a brother of the Savior is so distressing to some people. The theme of good parents/rotten kids, and good brother/evil brother, appears in the scriptures beginning with the first generation of children born on earth.

Anonymous | 8:46 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

I would caution Governor Huckabee and his election team to be "gentle" with their comments concerning Mormonism. Caustic remarks uttered in seeking the nomination could serve to undermine the Governor's efforts in the general election. Recent elections have hung on a thin margin in the electoral college. Should offended LDS not participate in casting what normally would be a Republican vote, it could easily make the red states of Arizona, Utah,Wyoming,and Idaho blue.

To Australian | 8:55 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The United States has enacted gun control legislation for the registration and purchase of firearms. Crimes in which a gun is used carry harsher penalties. Why is this not preventing the shootings you mention? Because the guns used in most violent crimes in the U.S. are not obtained through legal means. They are stolen from individuals, homes, cars, gun dealers, even law enforcement. They are bought and sold by criminals on the street. Members of American gangs consider the possession of a gun a necessity. And they have no respect for the life of another person. Prison is not a deterrant for most. Please, if you have a solution to this problem, share it with us. We need all the help we can get.

concerning Huck... | 8:57 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The cynical side of me says, "Mr. Huck, like all politicians, knows a wedge issue when he sees it. If Huckabee were _really_ interested in the answer to his question, he would privately approach someone of the Mormon faith about it, not bring the question up in a national newspaper. Bringing this up publically assures that the 'Mormon wierd' factor will benefit him through one more news cycle. It also pairs up nicely with his 'Christian leader' ad in Iowa."

But, I'm really trying not to be cynical. Mr. Huckabee, you can find a local LDS congregation in any yellow pages in any metropolitan area of the country; give them a call and I'm sure someone can help you get an answer to your question.

robert | 9:04 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

you creep me out Why is the Bible and all of tha jibberish so important to you. Talk in the 2000's you are scaring me.

concerning Huck | 9:09 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The cynical side of ME says "Romney like all politicians, knows a wedge issue when HE sees it. Huckabee "minister" was beating Romney in the polls, so Romney plays the Mormon card. Do you really think that Mitt, would privately check into Huckabee's religion, I don't think so, afterall the "church" is the true church isn't it?

clarkesq | 9:11 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Another example that the so-called Christian right will never accept Mormons, and Mormons should not try. Ironically, most the defenders of the idea that Romney's religion should not be an issue are on the left, not the right who claim to support the principles of the Constitution. Mormons come from a liberal tradition - Joseph Smith really shook things up - and they should walk away from the right. There is nothing to be gained from them. Huckabee is no friend of Mormons....

clarkesq | 9:18 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Either is Romney Wants to win at all costs. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young really shook things up didn't they . They are putting Warren Jeffs in prison for the kind of sick behavior they believed in. If anything, if I were a mormon, I definately would NOT profess to believe in anythin about Brigham and Joseph and what they stood for. What is up with that?

To Robert: | 9:22 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

If you'll back up a few verses in 1 Col. (1:13-16), you can read where it refers to believers being accepted into "the kingdom of his dear Son", and then in v. 15, it states "Who [refering to Christ] is in the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature". If Christ is the "firstborn" of all, yet was born in the flesh after thousands of years of human history had transpired, then the "firstborn" reference refers to a pre-mortal birth, making Christ both the spiritual offspring of God the Father, along with all other spirits acc. to Mormon belief (several refs. to God knowing persons before their birth, Jeremiah 1:5 is just one).

Additionally, references abound in the NT regarding Christ as the "Only Begotten Son" (John 3:16, featured at sports events worldwide, is just one example); therefore Christ is also the physical Son of God the Father (is there another way to interpret 'Only Begotten'?). That is the LDS take on it, as I understand it. If you hold a Trinitarian view, then that will likely not be the way you understand these scriptures. That's fine; but should Huckabee use that as a political wedge?

Re: conc Huck 9:09 pm | 9:30 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Exactly why we all ought to read Art. VI in the Constitution and drop the whole religious test entirely. Anyone who denies that the whole Mormon question isn't a de facto religious test is fooling themselves.

And while we're at it, I also hope we remember this episode and call to task those who talk of "Utah values" or other veiled references to [the LDS] faith when they're running for the UT legislature next fall.

Australian | 9:40 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The death of 35 people and serious injuries to almost 20 others at Port Arthur on 28 April 1996 prompted the Australian government to urge a meeting of the eight state and territory police ministers to introduce a new and stricter range of gun controls. Three major changes were introduced. (a) Gun registration was introduced to all eight jurisdictions (b) Attempts were made to have uniform gun laws throughout Australia (c) A new standardised gun licensing scheme was put into practice. This new scheme allowed non-self-loading guns to be readily available but placed restrictions on high capacity self-loading rimfire rifles, self-loading centrefire rifles and shotguns and pump-action shotguns. These were the types of guns mainly used in Australian gun massacres. The basis for these changes had been laid in 1990 when the National Committee on Violence (NCV) made about 20 recommendations for improved gun controls. The NCV itself was formed as a result of the six gun massacres in 1987. There were about four million guns in Australia. One million were no longer in the legal category so a gun buy-back scheme was introduced to purchase these.

Dan | 9:53 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The Christian Coalition is, as it's name implies, an assembly of groups with a common cause. If we hang together as we have in the past, then there is still a chance to win the next election. But this battle between Evangelical groups and Mormons will lead to further division in the Republican Party. Basically, it is the beginning of the end of the Christian Coalition, or at least of it's being a viable influence in American politics.

where did Satan come from | 10:05 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

(New Testament | Revelation 12:7 - 9)

7 And there was awar in heaven: Michael and his cangels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in aheaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

from the above scripure Satan was in heaven with all the spirit sons and daughters of our father in heaven.

(New Testament | Acts 17:28 - 29)
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

I believe the above scripturs makes it plain, Lucifer, was with spirits in heaven.

l | 10:05 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Not sure what the gun-related comments above have to do with this story...perhaps the moderators will be nice enough to get rid of them.

l | 10:08 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

I also don't get what the big deal is. God created everything. There are a lot of people that are sons of God and therefore brothers and sisters of Jesus and the rest of us, who are horrible people, and lots that are wonderful people. I'm not sure what's so controversial. Jesus and Satan are brothers...who cares?

Proud gun owning American | 10:30 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Its time you Australians worry about your own weak kangaroo government and let us americans worry about the right to bear arms given us by our own constitution in our own country.

unfortunately... | 11:05 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The previous poster hasn't done the math...you can win just about any national race without UT, ID, AZ, and WY--only about 17 electoral votes and a minority of delegates in either party. The "mormon corridor" is a weak player in national politics.

Get the facts | 12:31 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007

Hearsay and rumors were never the way to obtain the truth about anything. If I wanted to find out about physics, I wouldn't go ask a lawyer to teach me. Anyone who would make a judgement of a religion, good or bad, without looking at the doctrine and the general character of the followers are, for lack of a better word, 'morons'. Did you learn about Mormons from a Baptist, or about Presbyterians from a Catholic? Furthermore, truth is truth regardless of individual or public opinion and beliefs - either a doctrine is true or its not. My opinion, which doesn't change any truth, after years of studying Christian and Non-Christian religions, is that the Mormon religion answers more of the questions of life and answers them more rationally than any other religion, Christian and Non-Christian, I've studied. It also answers nearly all of the hang-ups atheists have which Christianity. And, it provides much more hope for this life and the hereafter. And a much greater understanding of the nature of God and Jesus Christ than can be had in other Christian religions. It's not bizarre; it's rational and understandable.

wjgramma | 6:38 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007

"Get the facts":
Thanks for a logical explanation about the way to learn about the LDS (Mormon) Church, or any other church. I would never go to a Ford dealer to ask about the benefits of a Chevrolet, and I have used that comparison to try to help people learn LDS doctrine. Talk to a member, study the doctrine, and pray about it to know if what we believe is true.

Likewise, I am willing to learn what members of other churchs believe in comparison. All Christian churches bring people unto Christ, which should be there main concern. It is common knowledge that many protestant ministers teach against Mormon beliefs, and many Christian book stores have anti-Mormon liturature available; but freedom of religion is a constitutional right.

No one should say that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not Christians. We teach of Christ and try to live by his teachings. Mitt Romney explained that in his Faith speech, which he was reluctant to present, but did so very discreetly. I believe, as he does, that religion should NOT be a political issue.

where did satan come from 10:05 | 7:46 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007

I say it sounds like mythology to me. The Mormon faith in 78 had a revelation and allowed blacks to be a part of the church I am wondering when they will have another revelation and allow women to become bishops. Move up the corporate ladder so to speak. Probably will happen soon with all of this hoop la la.

Samuel the Utahnite | 8:25 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007

The simple and direct, honest answer is yes, Mormons teach and believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers.

They deny this now?

Why would A spokeswoman for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say:

"Huckabee's question is usually raised by those who wish to smear the Mormon faith rather than clarify doctrine."

So, pointing out facts about Mormonism is now a smear campaign by anti-Mormons, even though this has been a teaching of Mormonism since 1830 and is right on LDS.org, in many places?

So, in other words, the Mormons are smearing themselves, with their own doctrines and are they themselves anti-Mormons then?

Huh?

On LDS.org, under gospel library/topics, it clearly says, under Satan:

"Satan, also called the adversary or the devil, is the enemy of all righteousness and of those who seek to follow God. He is a SPIRIT SON OF GOD who was once an angel "in authority in the presence of God..."

On LDS.org, under Gospel Principles, it states:

TWO OF OUR BROTHER offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27).

I could go on, but it's obvious that Mormonism teaches this!!

OnceWasMormon | 10:57 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007

Amen Utahnite.

In all reality, Mormonism is a self righteous, non-Jesus, unorthodox faith. I was once one these followers of good works and I'm sure glad the God of the Bible looked my way later in life to show me truth. All Mormons have to do is look at the foundation of the Church, it is WRONG to trust in man, that is all your doing. Isaiah 53:6. Man cannot Save you, but Jesus of the Bible can. This whole Romney deal is Gods doing to expose the real truth of the Mormon System and I say Amen to that.

I would love to see a cross on every Steeple one day... Ephesians 2:8

A Southern Girl | 11:06 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007

Don't be ignorant is right about Huckabee knowing about Mormonism. I live in the South, in the Bible Belt, and there is not one Baptist, or any one of any other religion who goes to church regularly, who isn't taught throughout his or her life about the Mormons and 'their doctrine'. Almost all of what they are taught by the evangelical churches is incorrect, or twisted just enough to sound weird. Huckabee, being an ordained minister, knows - have no doubt about that. He is using this as a smear tactic. I am pretty sure that Mitt Romney gave his faith speech for political reasons, but he did not try to smear anyone else's religious faith, as Huckabee is doing. Make no mistake about it - Mormonism is considered a cult by most southern baptists and other evangelical churches.

comment | 11:59 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007

I was a member of a baptist church and a lutheran church...and nothing was ever said about Mormonism.
Pastors have little concern about understanding Mormonism. Their focus to 'equip the Saints"; teach the 'gospel in purity' and are called to give order in the church; preach and present the sacraments.
I'd challenge you, to converse with any pastor, about their concerns about knowing or studing Mormonism. If their congregation are clear about the Bible's teachings on the gospel; who God is; what Jesus' mission was, they will know the difference when they are approached by LDS missionaries. If they don't.... they need to be prayed for God's protection.

Alien Gentile | 12:18 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

I don't understand the problem. None of the comments have denied that this is the teaching of the LDS church, nor did Mitt, nor did the Church comment. Many have tried to explain it.

So if it is an LDS belief, how is it a smear tactic to ask, "Is this what they believe?"

John Fox | 12:37 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

Huckabee should leave this issue alone. I am an evangelical and have know and considered friends many Mormons. I would and have disagreed with their doctrine. But a President isn't dealing with this issue. Only issues of behavior. Most mormons are in a way earning their way to heaven thru their church. This isn't a moral issue that would effect Presidential work. So he should leave it out, it doesn't need to be a wedge issue. Romney may be a very nice person, and a good Mormon, but I am much more concerned about his changing views. My question is more, how can a conservative govern the most liberal state in the union, Massachusetts? Look at what he did for health care in that state. He isn't conservative (but then replublicans generally give lip about government spending, an then spend, spend, spend. That will be Romney to a tee (Romney with muscles- Arnold).

David | 12:59 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

The point only is that, if Romney insists he is a candidate qualified to serve you and me as president of our country because--in part--he is a Mormon, then his Mormonism should be examined. There are wayward Mormons, I am sure, just as there are wayward Baptists or Catholics--ones who either do not know or do not care what their faith traditions teach/believe in full. However, enough is known about Mormonism's claims for itself by this time (100+ years) for any thinking person to answer some of the questions arising about LDS belief. And, a person's values NEVER will be eliminated from the political scene in U.S. presidential elections; might as well forget that and all related objections. "If I am going to marry a person, I want to know what she believes"-kind of thing.

David | 1:02 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

Isaiah 45:7 thing: "calamity" in nature, not "evil" as a principle or an action. The idea isn't supported anywhere in the Bible that God either is evil or is responsible for the activity/principle of evil.

dan | 1:26 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

before I was a Christian, I was a Mormon. I was taught "We are not Christian, they are an abomination to God" Also " The blacks are a curse from Cain and a cursed race can not hold the priesthood". "Joseph Smith said we can't go to the highest heaven and have our own planet unless we have two or more wives, but God has changed his mind on this for now" I was taught God was once a man, he evolved from the primates and from the ooze just as evolution teazches. I was taught God had a beginning and the universe has always existed. God did not create it.
I have seen the LDS church change it's stand on each of these. But I didn't drop out of the church because of these embarrasing doctrines. I accepted the real Jesus of the Bible as my Savior and LORD because He is the way the truth andf the life, not Joe Smith or the LDS church. By the way, from 1829 how long will the Mormons be in the Latter days, how long before they have to say how long are the latter days,Joe said 1891 was 2nd coming

Paul | 3:20 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

I too was once Mormon and a follower Joe Smithï¿½s system until one day I was asked the question about death and where I thought I was going. After reading Romans 6 it was very clear that I could not work and earn my way to heaven by doing good deeds. When I was a Mormon I was thought there is no Hell, but instead a lower holding kingdom for sinners. If you look in Daniel 12:2 and Psalms 55:15 it describes a Hell. This was a scaring thought. So, if I believed what Joe Smith taught, hey I might be ok, but if I believed what the Bible said, then I was in big trouble. After a few months of searching the Church's foundation and Joeï¿½s past life I was convinced this was a cult with an evolving false doctrine.

I love all Mormons and I hope they can see the truth. I was lied to by so many people about Mormon teaching, but it wasnï¿½t their fault, it was Joeï¿½s fault. Thank God for finding and Saving me before it was too late. Donï¿½t let it be too late for you.

To dan and Paul | 6:05 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

It is painfully obvious from your comments about our alleged beliefs, and your interpretation of those beliefs, that neither of you were Mormons. "Thou shalt not bear false witness." "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Seems like you two have some repenting to do if you want Christ to claim you as his.

Paul's Doctrine | 6:11 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

What does that have to do with Huckabee. Paul probably doesn't believe in any of the stuff that he's saying he just wants to create a diatribe about Mormons and most likely was never one. Separation of Church and State is so that we protect our religious beliefs...even the ones that Paul says he has whatever that is.

Nick | 8:07 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

SO Mormons do believe Christ and Satan are brothers.
Well. Romney seems to be a good man, but there is no way I would vote for someone who openly professes such a blasphemous doctrine.

angie | 9:28 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007

yes, mormons believe jesus and satan are brothers. they believe that they are spirit brothers who more or less, in heaven, had a disagreement about who gets to be the savior. satan wanted to go, and he was not chosen. that's what the mormon missionaries told me. and i joined the mormon church to infiltrate and find out what they REALLY believe.

Mark | 8:54 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007

I was surprised to learn that not all Christian religions believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers. Can someone from any Christian religion other than LDS please tell me where Satan came from if God did not create him. And do you feel that if Satan were Christ's brother that that somehow diminishes or blasphemes Christ in some way? Isn't Hitler Christ's brother, and a child of God? Is that offensive to you also?

ray | 9:44 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Gospel Through the Ages, pg. 104; ï¿½President Joseph F. Smith declared that ï¿½God himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned and supremeï¿½. Elder Orson Hyde, a member of the Quorom of the Twelve said: ï¿½Remember that God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancementï¿½ï¿½

Mormons themselves believe they worship a different Jesus. Biblical Christianiy believes Jesus to be eternal...so while it's not offensive...it's definitely not biblical.

ray | 9:46 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007

the big deal is that if Jesus was created he can't have been eternal...or God.

Mark | 11:02 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007

It seems like your saying that other Christian faiths don't believe that Jesus is the son of God.
Because your created does not mean you're not eternal. Do you believe you were created in God's image? Do you believe you will live throughout the eternities after this life? There you go.

John Campbell | 11:08 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007

The big deal is that lucifer was an angel. nothing in the Bible ever states that christ was an angel, in fact it says "let us make man in our own image"
I believe that "us" had to be God and his son Christ in the spirit. furthermore in the new testament book of the gospel of john nothing was made w/out Christ. ...was the word the word was christ- the way,truth and light.The same was said later in genesis re:tower of babel (let us go down and confound their language). Who is this "us" that keeps popping up? Maybe the angels - I think not!

Heather | 12:29 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Quoting Mark: "I was surprised to learn that not all Christian religions believe that Jesus and Satan are brothersï¿½ï¿½

Living in Utah, Mark, I know that there is a lot of confusion between Christians and Latter Day Saints because of different beliefs and usages of definitions. I have many LDS friends that I love, and my entire extended family as well. Evangelical Christians believe, as the Bible says, that one has to be born again spiritually to become a child of God. We don't believe in pre-existence or that there are spirit children of God in Heaven waiting for a body. We believe that there is only one God, and He is a triune God--the Father, Son & Holy Spirit...

Heather | 12:34 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007

Quoting Mark continued...

The Bible also says that Satan (Lucifer)is a fallen angel, and angels are created beings. God is the Creator, and angels, humans and all of creation are created things. This is why many Christians are horrified to hear this doctrine that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers, because we believe One is God and the other is a fallen creature. We also believe that one has to be born again to be a child of God--but we are all created in His image. Thank you for your honest question. The past few years I've had many occasions to discuss things like this with my LDS friends, and I'm grateful that we are able to identify where the "disconnect" is when we're saying the same words but thinking different things.

NauvooChristian | 9:59 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007

Mormons know the teaching that Jesus and Satan are brothers.

Press statements does not a doctrine make, no matter how many times they are released!

Robert | 12:02 a.m. Dec. 15, 2007

John 3:16 says "only Begotten". The word "only" means alone in kind or class; sole. the word "begotten" means to father; sire. When you put the two words in order as is found in John 3:16, it says, there was only one kind sired by the Father. If Jesus was the only kind sired by the Father then Lucifer could not be Jesus' brother nor our brother. "To Robert" get a English dictionary, it will help you understand the verbage of the Bible.
If the word "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 meant he was litterally the firstborn creature then it wouldn't make much sense that he then created all other creatures (vs.16) and is also one of the same creatures that he created. Verse 18 says he is the beginning, the FIRSTBORN from the dead; Vs. 15 is in context of verse 18 so the subject matter is the resurrection not in context to the first one created.
In Rev. 22:13 Jesus says, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

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