Deseret News | Church lines equal school lines?

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Church lines equal school lines?

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Matt | 2:22 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Once again I'm seeing a lot of people making a big deal out of a small thing JUST because it is the LDS church. The majority of the population is LDS this is a democracy therefore the majority vote decides what happens. This kind of thing DOES happen outside Utah and no one cares. Here in Utah nothing can be done on Monday nights because of FHE. Guess what? in East Texas the schools and sports programs can't do anything on Wednesday nights cause the Baptists and Methodists have church services. growing up there I thought that it was great that the dominate religions were able to keep things united and moral even though my religion differed from theirs.

Carl | 2:30 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

If they did this on logical lines, then the ones who don't like logic would sue and we would bus the kids to the school district they liked.

There is no winner. Just do it based on the way that it will be best for most and tell the others to go jump in a lake.

grundle | 2:37 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

This is a none issue

Comments continue below

Chad Shane | 3:07 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

When I was a young boy growing up in American Fork, the school bountry was divided by what LDS ward a student was in. Church and State seperate?

Lisa | 3:07 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The thing is, the LDS church is different than other churches. All their activities are done within church groups. Starting at 8 with achievment day and scouting. Don't you think it may be a good idea to introduce children to other children other than the ones they already spend all their time with? Believe it or not, a little diversity is a good thing.

Perhaps | 3:47 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Perhaps they were trying to help the less fortunate children get the best education. That requires more information than the school districts have. It would be a hardship on one teacher to have her whole class be from single parent homes. The boundry line in wards/stakes change at times who cares. The information they have now is important.
I am LDS. My whole Utah ward went the same Utah schools. I liked the girls in the ward, we were "there" for each other, but I did not hang out with them. My friends included; JW, Catholic, LDS (Mormon), Non-affiliated, and Lutheran. I may have missed a few. We never got into religon like that. If your child has no friends could it be something else? We had one guy in our school that had only one "friend" because he was too creepy and weird!

John Swenson Harvey | 3:50 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Regarding "Utahan" - That is the correct historical way of spelling the word. It is true that the modern accent and lazy spellers use "Utahn" instead. As a descendant of "pioneer stock" who arrived in the 1840s I always appreciate reading the word spelled correctly.

John Harvey

Please.. | 4:09 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

We do not bash your religion, try not to bash ours. I am sick of the comments about how terrible Mormons are. Get to know us. There is no issue here people are doing what is best for the children.

Cindy's | 4:22 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Oh my goodness!!! Mormons in Utah acting in such a way. My My My. Grow up and represent the Church in a positive light. There are good and bad attitudes in all faiths. Members of the Church and non Members. We are all GOD's Children. Let's not forget that and do what is best for the children who are the ones that will be affected. It's that same old saga of the parents trying to relive their childhood through their children. Let things happen as they should with obvious proper and in perspective input. This is turning into a name calling unkind bash. And you're getting way off topic. Now go get a chocolate chip cookie and sit down and behave.

:)

2-bits | 4:55 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

I think it's a good idea. But I knew it would rile up those who think EVERYTHING is a sign of the LDS church trying to take over and control the world. Predictable.

I think considering these pre-existing social ties and boundaries is wise. No matter how you slice it, it's hard on the kids when you change their school boundaries (remember all the fuss we had when they were trying to decide what students would go to the new school in Syracuse?). Whatever school administrators can do to make it less painfull for even a few kids is worth it. And those using this to grind your anti-LDS agenda should be ashamed. The local leaders are just trying to make the transition a little easier on as many kids as possible.

It's true Stake and Ward boundaries will change over time (and those changes can also be painfull), but church leaders also try not to straddle school boundaries when making those changes. It just makes sense. All the school leaders are trying to do is make this initial transition as painless as possible. If that offends you, so be it.

Roger | 5:21 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Several people think these actions will hurt non-LDS kids. By why would non-LDS kids even care? After all, aren't their LDS classmates nothing but a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic, self-righteous iditots who belong to an evil, brain-washing cult?

I find it amusing how hypocrital many Utahns are. First, they scream and pout about how their poor, precious children aren't allow to play with the "Mormon" kids, and then they turn around and accuse "Mormons" of every evil, disgusting thing they can think of.

Perhaps if LDS and non-LDS kids just went to completely different schools, then everyone would be happy.

Ken | 5:58 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Lisa, I have never heard that Mormon children are restricted from associating with non-members. In fact I think the opposite is true. I am glad your birthday parties were so diverse but perhaps you might be the one who is judgemental?

Sleuth | 6:31 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Hey Wut:

There is no need to resort to ad hominem. My responses are not ï¿½big fancy words.ï¿½ Any literate person would know that. Regardless, it is your responsibility to know these words from the dictionary.

Wut, I do know what I am talking about. Your agreement with ï¿½Anon,ï¿½ isnï¿½t relevant. There is an issue at hand. If not, then all would be in agreement; and obviously we are not.

At issue is the public schoolï¿½s districting and grouping of students, perceptively influenced by LDS ï¿½revelation.ï¿½

The article states that the boundaries might be ï¿½ecclesiastical," meaning that the school boundaries to be voted upon were prayed about, answered by God, and then instituted. Stake leaders exhort members when boundaries are set, or changed. They explain that such changes were prayed about prior to making decisions. According to the story, the schools districting policy, if approved, will be based upon Mormon revelation. More than a few people and interest group organizations will have serious legal issues with this.

My advice to you: Get over your Mormon subculture, follow the true tenets of your faith, and subject yourself to the law of the land, as commanded.

Clark Roger | 6:36 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Roger - I don't know you, but clearly you see the world the muddy colored glasses. If every non-LDS Utahn had the attitude about the LDS Church that you seem to think they have, the Wasatch Front would be a lot more like Baghdad right now.

There have been a lot of good points brought up on this comment board. Thank the good Lord we live in a free country where we can express our point of views without worry about arrest or death.

My hope is that the school board will come up with a plan that will take into account all students, not just the LDS ones. And as for my opinion, school kids having different friends at church and at school may not always be a bad thing. Growing up, most of the kids in my LDS ward went to a different elementary school than myself, and for the most part I had no problem with it.

Mike R. | 6:44 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

What is so wrong with this? My ward in Kearns is split between two elementary school boundaries for no good reason. Therefore we have two peer groups in our ward which is dividing the kids. They don't start hanging around with each other until junior high or high school. They don't get the chance to develop those relationships early in live except on Sundays.

Besides, where in the First Amendment does it say that there is supposed to be a separation between Church and State? All it says is, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" That says nothing about separation of government and religion. Just no state religion be established. The term "Separation of Church and state" came from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote. And Thomas Jefferson was not at the constitutional convention.

Whatever... | 7:25 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

in the broad scheme of things...does it really matter where the boundaries are? How did this make the newspaper?

Anonymous | 7:29 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Oh man this just does not sound good. Maybe it makes sense and even though it probably is not it sounds very exclusive. Do you ever stop to consider how people feel who do not consider themselves to be in a "ward boundary". I am LDS but would feel bad for my neighbors who are not if this came up in my school district. How silly. Sorry I dont agree with this at all.

What's best for the children. | 8:55 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

OK, now we have figured out what is best for the children, let's see if it offends any adults.

Oh, it does?

Let's change it then, because the kids are the one who need to live with it, and the parents are tne one who are going to freak.

To Mike R | 10:53 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Mike - Just petition your stake to redraw the ward boundaries to match up with the school lines. That's the appropriate way to do this.

Anonymous | 11:31 p.m. Dec. 14, 2007

In truth, the district did not purposely set school boundaries contiguous with LDS boundaries (but sometimes the LDS Church sets boundaries based on schools). The district does not seek or retain maps of where LDS wards, stakes, etc. are drawn. Since the district might reasonably use a natural boundary like the freeway or river for a school it is not surprising that the Church would do the same. Those who witnessed boundary discussions and public input sessions would observe that sometimes citizens make requests for ward boundaries in their public comments, but those requests weigh no more than any other request. The whole goal is to provide reasonable neighborhood school size based on reasonable boundaries. Talking to people who live in those neighborhoods helps in that process. The separation of Church and State does not imply the need for State to Church belligerence. The district talked to many different groups to understand the needs of neighborhoods, including accepting an invitation to speak to some religious leaders (to understand the educational and social needs of disadvantaged citizens...not to set boundaries). The D-news created this story to sell papers....

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