Deseret News | Immigration bills brewing

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Immigration bills brewing

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Carol | 3:01 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Why is it no one has commented on the vast amount of money in the billions, that is sent back to the countries of origin. We say we cannot do without their labor, yet I watch illegals daily demand WIC, free health care at the free clinic, Medicaid, food stamps and they demand that they are spoken to in Spanish as well as provide interpretuers for their non-English speaking children born here, though they should be considered illegal as well. They are treated by far better than our own citizenry. They can walk into any hospital and get FREE care, yet many citizens go bankrupt from a catasrophic event. Let's not even get into the cost of education. They are a people that somehow feel entitled and we don't want to "hurt their feelings". We have lost our backbones as American's and it is going to cost us enormously!!

rodeo1 | 3:47 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Europe and Aferica have several versions of guest worker permits. This has been a practice there for years and is working well. This allows people to work on a temporary basis. Why are our leaders not looking at something that works? Why are we trying to recreate the provival wheel?

Stewart | 3:48 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

If the economy goes in the tank, hotels fast food, homebuilding and others that employ large numbers of illegal aliens will lay off many of their employees. Illegal aliens will then have will have to return home due to lack of jobs. That is of course, if government helps by enforcing the laws a little so that wages aren't further depressed for citizens that need these jobs.

For those of you that think flooding the labor market with foreign labor willing to depress wages below subsistence levels is a good thing, google "subsistence wage theory" and "The Iron Law of Wages." The short of it is, that taxpayers or charity must make up the difference between the wage paid and subsistence level, which is actually a wage subsidy to the employer. Subsistence wage even applies to teenage workers, but here the parents subsidized them, by providing the necessities including health care. There is no free lunch, someone always pays. The taxpayers are supporting illegal immigration in several direct ways, but also indirectly by depressing wages below subsistence level for the homegrown, unskilled, and entry level working American.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 3:52 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

I don't think we will ever see the day where gestapo-type people will be sniffing out the illegal element, picking them up and carting them off somewhere.
I DO think there are those who would like nothing more than for this to happen.
When I sense I am around that type, I recommend them watching "Schindler's List."

Tears in my eyes | 3:52 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

The vast majority of the illegal aliens come in because it's convenient for them by proximity. Mexico has plenty of resources to support its residence and provide a quality of life similar to the United States.

Unfortunatly as a society and culture they are very racist and limit the opportunities for those with native american ancestry. They view the United States as a rich uncle who owes them money and are taught a false version of history that we stole the Southwest (their mythical Aztlan) years ago.

It's true that the criminals in Mexico are bolder and more ruthless, especially the drug cartels who openly assasinate public officials and sometimes behead them.

Instead of escaping these conditions, a lot of the illegals re-create the same poverty-based crime in this country. Over the past few years I've read countless stories of illegals raping children, committing murder, killing people while DUI, etc...

It's no secret that most of the illegal drugs being sold here are manufactured in Mexico and brought in by illegals. Just check the various county websites and you'll find dozens of drug-related criminals from Mexico there, the majority with immigration holds.

Carol and Co. is costing U.S. bi | 3:58 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

I am happy, Carol, to comment on "the vast amount of money in the billions, that is sent back to the countries of origin." It is no different then the billions that are sent to other countries by major corporations and wealthy individuals who take long vacations in other countries and spend their money there instead of here.

This doesn't have a negative impact on our economy since the same is true for the United States. Billions of dollars is sent here by people from other countries. If you stop buying things made in China, etc because it is costing us billions of dollars by sending vast amounts of money to these countries then you won't be a hypocrite. Don't think about going on a cruise either because that would be costing us billions of dollars. In fact, all of you who use this argument might as well stop doing everything since the end result is that the money you spend ends up leaving the country.

Wow finally | 4:16 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

What a pathetic try. Might be kill all illegals will solve THE problem. War with Mexico.

American K | 4:20 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

if a person can't speak any english, i automatically think they're illegally here. who would go to another country to live and not learn the language? those who snuck across our border and live in communities that are not assimilating, speaking only spanish and continuing to live like they did in their home country (mainly mexico)do not have any intention of becoming american citizens. we all saw them waving their mexican rags in our streets. American citizens are now paying attention. we don't want to pay the way for these invaders. deport them all and do it soon!!

Freedom v. Anti-Immigrant Crowd. | 4:22 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

This discussion seems to ignore important points which I would like to address. First, individuals have rights as individuals, not as citizens of a country. This means they have right to immigrate and to expatriate from their nation of birth. The circumstances of their birth should not bind them for life. Being unforunate (or forunate) enough to be born in one country and not another shouldn't limit the right of a man or woman to pursue their self interest in another.

Second, those who live in one country don't have the right to deny those in this country or another their basic rights. You cannot tell someone who wants to rent a house 'you can't rent to so and so because he isn't American' because that would violate his rights nor can you tell someone who isn't an American that they have no right to conduct themselves as free agents (i.e., renting a house) here anymore than other Americans are able to tell us as Americans that we can't leave and live in another nation (or purchase a home in Australia) if we choose to do so. Our right to govern ends where the rights of another begins.

Bobby | 4:39 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

The bottomless pit of illegal immigration has bankrupted California, Arizona, and New Mexico, and is on the way to bankrupting other states. Americans are paying in essence, corporate welfare, since corporations don't want to pay the illegal aliens social costs, and getting nothing NOTHING AT ALL, in return. Prices in absolutely NOTHING have gone down, rather prices are up, on everything people need--except perhaps the endless junk that comes in from China. I'm sick of people with intellectual arguments PROVING that illegal immigration is good. Nope. It costs the taxpayers of California, Arizona, New York, Colorado, or whatever state contains a substantial amount of illegal aliens. Real money is what it costs, intellectual speculation not withstanding.

jim h | 4:48 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Seal the borders. If we want millions more workers,let them in LEGALLY. Controlling immigration doesn't mean more or less, it simply means we can decide how we want to do it and not just let whatever happens happen.
What on earth does that have to do with racism, not enough workers, fairness, etc.

Anonymous | 4:58 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

The height of neurotic thinking is delusion.
Some are simply incapable of realizing the impossible task of rounding up people and shipping them away. They also cannot see the utter folly in thinking a Great Wall of sorts is going to stop people from feeding their families and themselves.
There are way more of these nutty types than I first imagined.
These deluded souls have directed their anger towards the wrong element. It should be directed towards the powers that be who as always, are manipulating everything, and making more $$$ than ever from the cheap labor immigrants provide. But these people who have been exploiting illegals for years speak english so it's okay.

What? | 5:18 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

to Freedom...

Sorry, but each sovereign Nation does have the right to control who is granted privileges within their borders. In the 1980s, Cuba emptied their prisons and insane asylums and put all of those people on boats bound for America. The United Staes exercised its right to not accept them, and intercepted them and held them at facilities in the Bahamas until they could be processed.

We have very clear laws meant to protect our society by preventing criminals, disease carriers and others from entering. It would be foolhardy to discard these to honor some globalistic notion that every person in the world is entitled to come here.

Why don't you travel to Iran and test your theories there? I'm sure you could convince them of your right to enter their country and do what you want, disregarding all of their Muslim controlled rules.

Hickman is a hypocrit | 5:21 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

This guy brags about speeding in his sports car, and yet takes illegals to task for breaking immigration laws. Get a life.

Hickman's plan in 30's killed Je | 5:31 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

There was a great wall, figuratively speaking, in the 1930's and German Jews were refused the right to immigrate into the United States based on the recently passed legislation creating our current quota system resulted (prior to 1875 there were no restrictions on immigration) in them being denied sanctury at a time when they had the opportunity to flee Germany.

That opportunity passed and the Nazi government, who up to that point had allowed immigration, closed the door on Jews leaving Germany. Many of those who were unforunate and could not make it out of Germany because of this new immigration policy died. The young children who would have been covered by a proposed emergency bill that would have allowed 20,000 young Jews to enter the United States (opposed by the majority of Americans) probably could have been saved them the pain they had to endure.

I'm sure if John Hickman and Jim H. were living then they would do exactly what they want to do now which is what happened then and it caused thousands of Jews to die. Their ideological counterparts in the 30's killed a lot of Jews. Since I can't thank them I will thank Hickman.

red-bloodedAmerican | 5:35 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

All those here that have pro-illegal comments don't appear to have been exposed to the crime and third-world mentality. I think a lot of Utah Mormons are happy to have new blood in the church.
I DO NOT have to be made obligated to feel sorry for anyone, nor do I have to feed, house, doctor, nor educate anyone, and NOR will I allow any pro-illegal, liberal try telling me such.
The argument posed here by a number of pro-illegals is that America is built on immigrants. While I can't argue that, this is a different situation folks.
First, this is not Lewis and Clark, Davey Crockett days...There are LOTS and LOTS of people in the USA. I personally prefer to have my space...We need to regulate the population moreso than 100 years ago...
Also, the ILLEGAL (note "illegal") aliens that sneak across our borders to sell drugs or feed their children are no different. They do NOT pledge any allegiance to America.
Any person posting here who can argue on behalf of illegal aliens crossing our borders is simply un-American.

Anonymous | 6:11 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

This ultra-nationalism on this subject is a smokescreen to hide their racial prejudice and xenophobia fed by the wacky ultra-right hate-mongers.
These same people would probably be fighting on the South's side during the Civil War.

Xenophobia exists | 6:29 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

I agree with anonymous (6:11pm). Those who support such xenophobic policies can try to hide their true motivation behind any amount of fallacious logic but it simply doesn't hold up to strict scrutiny. The arguments about immigrants posing an undue burden on the welfare system is false, the argument about them taking jobs is false and the argument about them being more likely to commit crimes is false.

First, the argument about welfare is clearly false because federal law doesn't allow illegal or legal immigrants (in the case of legal immigrants they must wait five years) to benefit from welfare services.

Second, the argument about them taking jobs away from other Americans isn't true either. Immigrants don't just take jobs. They also provide jobs in the form of more need for more jobs. So more immigrants equals lower un-employment. This has been shown in studies where states with the highest immigrant population are compared to states with the lowest immigration population. The states with the higher immigrant population have lower unemployment rates.

Third, the argument about them being more likely to commit crimes is also false. The number of immigrants currently in prison compared to native Americans doesn't support this.

Close to Home | 6:31 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

My wife is from Peru and I can see both sides of the issue. A free economy where increased competition is nourished results in a more healthy economy. There's a huge difference between a terrorist and an individual who wants to make an honest living in a land of more opportunity. If un-documented immigrants are seen as a scape goat then the whole thing is barking up the wrong tree - if there's a scape goat in all this, it's too much government spending and lazy government slob workers who hold no accountability to the laws of reality. Latinos tend to be more reliable, and I can speak from experience. There are many underwhelmed teenagers born into the world of self indulgant, video-gaming, not knowing what it's like to go without if you don't walk the walk.
I side with legal proceedures of course to enter this country and live here, but the system hugely needs to be simplified so that the honest benefit and the liars recieve their consequences. Our constitution says, "all men (and women)" are created equal. period -

REAL DEAL | 6:35 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

It's a shame that the tax paying, hard working, respectful American people lose their freedom and rights, which is being dictated by criminals of the world, the back bone of America is getting tired of it all!

We want the truth televised, the truth begins with "WE THE PEOPLE" AND the people want to know who's bleeding us other than our own govermen. 1. what dose the prison system cost us? 2.Who's in them,what nationallity.
3.welfare what's it costing us, who and why.
4.why is our insurance so high? because of who or what.
5. ACLU WHAAAT!
6. GANG INFESTED CITY'S, WHAT! SEND THE MARINES!
7. USA ALSO NEEDS BORDER PROTECTION
8. HOW many BILLIONS DO US TAX PAYERS SPEND PROTECTING OTHER BORDERS.
9. HOW MANY OF THE NEW IMIGRANTS, DIE for this country for our freedom, to be an american.
10.WHY IS THE GOVERMENT ALLOWING CRIMINALS TO DICTATE HOW WE LIVE OUR LIVES?

Mike | 6:36 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

By my count a significant portion of the "old" families of Utah came here as illegal immigrants, and were almost chased off by the army, as I recall.

I wish they would remember their history and be more compassionate in taking steps towards legalising the immigrants, not chasing them off with the army.

What are you going to do when the Lost Ten Tribes turn up on the doorstep?

wrz | 6:38 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

"1-We need workers here in Utah."

We need legal workers here in Utah.

"2-You can't hold an employer accountable if he or she doesn't have the tools to verify the status of a person prior to hiring."

There are procedures in place to verify legality before employment. And it's not very difficult or complicated.

"3-Arrests of aggravated felons foreign-nationals has significantly increased."

And that's a good thing.

"4-We aren't going to kick out every single illegal in the country."

We don't have to kick the vast majority of them out. Take away the magnets (jobs, free schooling and medical, etc.) and they will quit coming and those here will start going home.

"5-Not every illegal can be bunched under the same umbrella. What about the child that's brought here by his parents and hasn't done anything wrong? Is he the same as an illegal thief?"

They can choose to leave their kids here provided the kids are citizens. Otherwise they go home with their parents. My bet is that the illegals will take their kids with them.

Terrorists don't cross illegally | 6:47 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Mike, they will tell them to go back where they came from since they are welcome in Utah. All of this talk about illegal immigration ignores a single reality. We should legalize immigration with the exception of preventing criminals, and those who pose a national security or health risk to the United States. There is no moral basis for the argument that men and women should not be free to immigrate or expatriate. The whole argument of "you were born there so stay there" does not suffice. It isn't a good enough argument to spend billions of dollars doing what we should not do. Our money would best be spent on knowing who is here instead of who we should keep out. If there is a concern about terrorism then we should know who is here by creating points of entry into the U.S. Anyone can enter but they must come through a checkpoint or airport. But the threat to national security isn't on the southern border. Those who attacked the U.S. on 9-11 entered the U.S. legally and it's far easier for terrorists to come as tourists instead of risking the chance of being caught crossing the border illegally.

WRZ can't move to X. Utah is whe | 6:56 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

1. "We need legal workers here in Utah."

I agree completely so make it legal for anyone to come here except for criminals, and those who pose a national security/health health risk.

2. "There are procedures in place to verify legality before employment."

We should remove these procedures and allow the free market to operate as it should.

3. "We don't have to kick the vast majority of them out. Take away the the magnets...and those here will start going home."

This is their home. They don't want to live where you want them to live.

4. "They can choose to leave their kids here provided the kids are citizens..."

When did we become a country where the only people who get to live here have to be citizens. The only reason they are illegal is because people like you pass these immoral laws and they should be repealed.

Maybe if you were told where you could live then you might understand. How about this? You move to another state and that state tells you to go home and to take your kids back to Utah since you are an illegal and belong in Utah.

Close To Home | 7:15 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

I'm sorry - I need to correct my own writing - It's the Declaration of Independance that states that all men are created equal, not the Constituion.

There are similarities and I'm only grateful that we have the best government in the world and simulteneously see an immigration structure that over-complicates what would otherwise be simple proceedure. I'd have to go into details that few would get through reading without falling asleep, so for the meantime I've lived with the laws.

Anonymous | 7:27 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

The more I read these angry neocon postings on this subject, the more I am convinced these people need psychological counseling.

A Simple Immigration System | 7:31 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

In response to "Close To Home," the year 1875 saw this change take place. What was once a simple system of immigration and naturalization became a complex system that makes no sense. The reason it doesn't make sense is because the motive behind those who enacted these types of laws is sinister. There is a very simple procedure that could be put in place:

1) allow anyone other then a criminal, or persons posing a national security or health risk to enter the country legally, work and live here;

2) once they live here a certain number of years and meet other requirements they can apply for naturalization and become citizens.

Problem solved!

Close To Home | 7:51 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

RE: A Simple Immigration System

Agreed -

qzr | 8:02 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

"2) once they live here a certain number of years and meet other requirements they can apply for naturalization and become citizens.

Problem solved!"

Problem just begun. Your solution would bring the entire world to our shores, much of which wouldn't care about citizenship. We cannot accommodate the entire world. Nor can we have the entire world tromping through our country.

Close To Home | 8:15 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

So what's YOUR solution qzr?

wrz | 8:17 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

"1. 'We need legal workers here in Utah.'

I agree completely so make it legal for anyone to come here except for criminals, and those who pose a national security/health health risk."

A country with open borders is not sovereign. It's no country at all.

"3. 'We don't have to kick the vast majority of them out. Take away the the magnets...and those here will start going home.'

This is their home. They don't want to live where you want them to live."

They are interlopers. This is not their home if they are not citizens... or have no papers to show they are legal and have been welcomed.

"4. 'They can choose to leave their kids here provided the kids are citizens...'

When did we become a country where the only people who get to live here have to be citizens."

When? When we decided to be a sovereign nation.

Borders, Language and Culture | 8:41 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

The immigration debate centers around illegal immigration, aka aliens. These folks are not "immigrants." Immigrants are those who came through the front door, not over the Rio Grande. 20 million illegals arrived over time; it will take time for them to leave. It is sickening that countries like Mexico aid and abate this. The love to send the lowest sector of their society over the border. Bush and his multnationalists love it as well. The Chamber of Commerce should be ashamed...they sold their souls to line their pockets.

Immigration built this country, illegal immigration will tear it apart.

We should not, cannot, and will not tolerate illegals coming here with their drugs, gangs, hand outs, attitude as if they own a portion of this country without a fight, and their violence.

Salt Lake had a 50% increase in violence. How many times are we going to let illegals kill, either through DUI or outright direct and intentional violence. Enough is enough.

America is an English speaking nation, our culture is grounded in our heritage, and our borders are real. Respect them, honor them, and take pride in them. If not, leave.

qzr is wrong. | 8:50 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

qzr, you are wrong. As I noted in another post. Even if half the worlds population were to immigrate to the United States our population density would still be lower than England and New Jersey. That is if we have an eleven-fold increase in population from 300 million to 3.3 billion we would still be able to accomadate them. But, like any system. These immigrates will only come if they feel it is in their best interest. If what you say were true, which it isn't, then these immigrates would stop coming because they would not want to live in a place so densely populated. Ironically, the more populated parts of the world have higher property prices because the demand for them is higher since people want to live with other people.

BLC is a bigot he doesn't love A | 9:17 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

BLC is wrong. Nothing he says has not been said about other immigrants groups in the past. It was not true then and it isn't true now. Immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes then native born Americans.

Also America is more then an English speaking nation and not taking pride in what BLC stands for doesn't mean those of us who take pride in this nation and the good things it stands for should leave because we refuse to go along with his view of the world.

I will make this clear from my viewpoint, "I find your comments to be repugnant and will never leave the land I love because you want to ruin this country with your bigotry" and I would urge those who hear your comments to reject. Anyone who would tell someone else to leave this country does not love this country. If you hate our country so much that you want others to leave then maybe you should consider leaving yourself since you don't love it.

Anonymous | 9:36 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Most people who are defending massive illegal immigration are profitting from it personally. I've noticed this over and over. The latest is some Senator from Oklahoma, a certain Mr. Coates. He is objecting to ejecting illegal aliens from the State of Oklahoma, and folks were wondering about his fidelity to the illegals. Then, SURPRISE, sure enough, his family owns a roofing company that employes slave labor,sorry, I mean illegal aliens, who of course have their social services paid for by the good old American taxpayer, not the Coates "Roofin" Company. Again, I have rarely met anyone who is for illegal immigration who is not profitting personally from it. Most of these so called liberal Americans are not altruistic at all, but they are a bunch of phonies. Yes, yes.

Anonymous would call family phon | 10:05 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

In response to "anonymous," it doesn't matter what the motivation is for those who support a fair and simple immigration policy.

So what if the primary reason Senator Coates is an economic one. I am not saying that it is or was his primary motivation but if it was he does represent those whose interests are benefited from having a different policy than the one you support. You may claim not to benefit from your position but I don't think that is true. This phony as you like to call me doesn't really care what you think. Neurotic people always try to make out others to be phonies and themselves to have only good motives. So if it makes you feel good to call others phonies then go ahead. Hide behind the internet while calling those you work with, attend Church with and who associate with phonies.

Your words show to everyone that the only person you really care about is you and that the only opinion that matters is yours. I'm sure if you were talking to your brother who holds the exact opposite opinion then you that you would call him a phony because it's all about you.

Carol | 10:29 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Carol and Co. are not costing you a thing! I am amazed that you consider commerse equal to the "BILLIONS" earned here and send HOME to their countries. In the meantime ~ their billions support their families and country, yet we pay for their health care, food, mammograms, immunizations, babies(lack of ability to pay)...you name it. I've seen it all because of my profession. This is a FAR cry from trade between countries ~ Geezz. Last time I looked, I was to busy working paying for all of the above for my family to go on a cruise!! Think it through!! One last irk ~ at a military event I recently attended, a hispanic woman whose anglo husband serves our country would not put her hand over her heart. She takes all America has to give, but no loyality. Talk about a slap to all soldiers who serve (let alone her ungratitude) ~ and I don't want to hear the sermon of the 1st ammendment!! They are in our military! There was an oath taken and any married spouce knows that they raise their hand with their husband!

RC | 10:33 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Letï¿½s face it we have many employers in this State that just want to make more money of the sweat and backs of illegal aliens. PERIOD

Illegal aliens cost the taxpayers of Utah many millions of dollars each year over what they contribute to the economy.

More people in the U.S. have been killed by illegal aliens since 9-11 than soldiers killed in Iraq.

If we donï¿½t stop the illegalï¿½s sneaking into Utah, we will end up like California where the legal citizens are fed up with the high taxes they pay to support the welfare and crime Illegalï¿½s cause.

Thatï¿½s why California now has a net loss in legal residents each year.

Wilkey | 11:05 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

To all those people who keep screaming "We can't deport them all!" - Senator Hickman's NOT proposing that! He's proposing to take away benefits and driver's licenses from them, with the goal being to make it harder for them to live and operate here illegally.

So stop saying "it won't work!" If you think his proposal can't work then we shouldn't have driver's licenses for anybody, because that "can't work" either.

If you think government laws can't work then stop propoing new laws. If you think the government can't do its job then stop proposing we make it larger.

It's hilariously funny that liberal open borders nuts claim that the government has an infinite capacity to do EVERYTHING right - except control our borders.

What's the real solution? | 11:17 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

Interesting to read all of the comments and solutions. No fence is going to stop the flow of illegals. Most Latins are wonderful, sweet people who are trying their best to make ends meet. True, there are those who are not law abiding, but we have more than our share of lawbreakers who are U.S.citizens.

What would most of you say to illegals? And what would they reply? They would say: "We were here first, this was Mexico when the first settlers came to the West. So who was illegal in the first place? The early settlers or the Mexicans who were citizens of Mexico?

If you looked at construction jobs and asked contractors how they would survive without Mexicans, they would tell you they cannot! Almost every food establishment and many other business currently have signs reading "now hiring." Mexicans are doing the jobs that most U.S. citizens will not.

If there is a sensible way to solve the problem, most do not know what it is. Mexico's economy rather than China's needs to be strengthened so they will remain in Mexico. I have lived in Mexico and appreciate their desire to raise their standard of living.

Starblazer | 11:24 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

i love it when liberals defend those who enter this country illegaly. liberals in this country are nothing but apologists for terrorists / illegal immigrants / and those who hate the U.S. we conservatives might be neocons, but at least we conservatives love this country & proud to be "True" americans, unlike you liberals, who despise this country & rather support Hugo Chavez / Castro / the president of Iran rather than support President Bush.

Close To Home | 11:53 p.m. Dec. 10, 2007

As far as I see it, the "Native Americans" (although I consider myself of Eurpean descent to be a 'Native American' because if I'm not a 'native American' than I don't know what I am). The Europeans came AFTER the Native Americans of course and to BLC, the "immigrants" of the day that founded what we now call "The United States of America" were law breaking rebels who freed themselves from a tyranical monarchy across the ocean. If you're of the majority reading this who is of Eurpean descent then go back far enough in our recent history to the time when Europeans arrived to a land that was lived on by people who didn't even understand the concept that one could buy and sell earth. I again agree with what 'A Simple Immigration System' that sifts out the criminal but welcomes the individual who can contribute to a better society. There are elements of the Latino culture that are illegal here, but accapted in their countries - most of those elements of law are preferable to me - otherwise I have no problem with equality for all human beings.

starblazer seeks to destroy Amer | 1:46 a.m. Dec. 11, 2007

In response to "starblazer." We oppose the immoral law and aren't defending law breakers. The immoral laws passed by people like you should be repealed. The law itself is wrong. Your argument comes down to if you pass an immoral law and someone breaks it they are criminals and when people point out that the law is immoral they are supporting criminals. This isn't true. Opposing immoral laws doesn't mean someone supports "illegal immigrants." It means they oppose an "immoral law."

Say "believe as I do or you hate America," teaches young men and women that they should hate America if they don't agree with you and it shows that you don't have the best interests of this country in mind but only care about yourself because you just told all liberals "agree with me or you should hate America."

How many young people reading such trash would grow to hate this country because of people like you. I want our youth who are liberals to know that they don't have to agree with you or hate America. Their love for this country is respected regardless of their beliefs and they should continue to do what they think is best.

Closing the boder threatens nati | 2:00 a.m. Dec. 11, 2007

In response to "Close to Home," it is very good to hear someone accept sound logic. Our immigration system was simple up to 1875. It was at this time that xenophobes and racists started to pass immoral laws that changed what had been a good system.

I am not worried about immigrants and we should repeal the current immigration laws that restrict the # of immigrants that can immigrate each year and support an open and secure border that allows people to exit and enter the U.S. so long as they aren't criminals and don't pose a national security/health risk. Many legal immigrants from Mexico wait 14 years.

There is no argument that can be given for why an open and secure boder shouldn't exist including national security because this type of system would actually do more to protect our national security than creating a fence would since we can't guard 100% of our border (0ver 19,000 miles).

There is also no economic argument that holds up to strict scrutiny. Immigrants don't take more from the economic system then they put into it. That they benefit from welfare benefits is nothing more than a lie since they don't under federal

Anonymous | 7:08 a.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Don't you understand anti-illegals, that the powers that be have already spoken on this subject.
This country was founded on slavery. Those powers that be like their rich lifestyle and aren't interested in paying higer wages so --
Voila! Cheap labor from Mexico.
It's out of your hands We The People, as everything else is.
Get used to it.

Bobby | 1:45 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Don't be stupid and don't expect others to be. This country was not founded on slavery. Slavery benefitted a few rich people. In the northern states white Europeans, worked like dogs for wealthy industrialists and had no benefits, and other were indentured servants. Why do you think that the North won the war? Because it was rich with its own exploitation of people. White people, whether you want to hear it or not. Nowadays the truth is being beaten around by all kinds of kooks, including college professors who preach idiotic things like this country was founded on slavery, in so called "ethnic studies" classes. What a joke.

Bobby | 1:55 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Most people who are for illegal immigration and the subsequent wage depression it brings, are profitting from it. Period. It's just like our trade policy. "We" believe in so called "free trade" to the point that factories, businesses, all kinds of industries have been exported to other nations, and we have the least amount of tax levied on foriegn goods than any other nation. Other nations tax our products to the point where no one their wants them, except some agriculture. The founding fathers of this nation sure believed in trade quotas, etc. But then again, they cared for this nation.....

Frank | 2:51 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Finally we get a common-sense solution to the immigration problem at a local level. Hurrah for Sen. Hickman. I hope that this bill passes unanimously.

Anonymous | 3:14 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

Poor, poor Bobby must have never heard of the Civil War nor did not know that the Founding Fathers owned slaves.

All of us are slaves | 4:14 p.m. Dec. 11, 2007

The current administration claims to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest. Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.

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