Reader comments
8 Utah schools could lose their accreditation
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san juan | 1:29 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
the whole county rides off indian monies and is so remote..now with the lisbon
mine shutting down that money becomes that more important.yet they would have
you think that with the loss of 300,000 dollars from this mine the indian money
doesn't afford the large non indian families quality education in other
parts of this county. just count every census number bearing child vs. the non
cesus and one gets a good picture of the dilema.
Utah Republican | 6:40 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Yes, I can hear it now. The voucherites will say "but even some public
schools are not accredited". No big deal. We only need to worry about
accreditation when we are talking about private schools.
By definition, public schools are already accredited because they are run by the people and the locally elected school board.
By definition, public schools are already accredited because they are run by the people and the locally elected school board.
SKY | 7:08 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
More problems at Hillcrest High School! It would be great if the school board
and the district would take a closer look at the administration of that school.
I have a child that should attend Hillcrest in the next few years and I am very
concerned at what appears to be a dis-functional principal and staff at the
school.
Comments continue below
TRK | 7:29 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Utah Republican? I look at it from a different perspective. Didn't the
anit-voucherites claim that private schools weren't required to be
accredited? How can you loose something you didn't have in the first
place?
If public schools are accredited by default that answers many of my questions because they are educating by default as well. And where did you get the idea that schools are run by the people? "The people" does not include parents - and I say that from my own life experience.
If public schools are accredited by default that answers many of my questions because they are educating by default as well. And where did you get the idea that schools are run by the people? "The people" does not include parents - and I say that from my own life experience.
? | 8:07 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Utah Republican: What did you just say??
Jake | 8:11 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
So the headline of this article is "8 Utah schools could lose their
accreditation", but in reading through the article twice, I'm still
not sure which 8 those are. It mentions 4 public schools (Granger, Provo,
Hillcrest, Navajo Mountain). Then later it talks about Meridian. And at the
very end it lists 3 school that lost accreditation, none of which actually
appear to be in business. I guess those 3 that already lost their accreditation
are 3 of the 8 that "could" lose it? Or are there others that just
didn't get mentioned in the article?
Whatever we do | 8:50 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Whatever we do, let's make sure we DON'T change anything with regards
to education, OK? All it needs is more money - this next little funding
increase is going to fix everything.
Everything is perfect and working wonderfully - just add money.
Everything is perfect and working wonderfully - just add money.
Wow | 8:55 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
To: Utah Republican | 6:40 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Are you serious? Do you understand what accreditation is? Just because it is a public school doesn't mean it is "ok" to have a Math teacher teach History or Chemistry unless they are qualified by accreditation to do so.
The private school is under fire because they have college professors teaching high school without the credentials to do so.
In my Utah high school I took German from my English teacher who never spoke any German before our class began. I was unable to take German after that because German on tape... just isn't the same as a German teacher. I am sure a German college professor could have done much better and my English teacher would have agreed.
Are you serious? Do you understand what accreditation is? Just because it is a public school doesn't mean it is "ok" to have a Math teacher teach History or Chemistry unless they are qualified by accreditation to do so.
The private school is under fire because they have college professors teaching high school without the credentials to do so.
In my Utah high school I took German from my English teacher who never spoke any German before our class began. I was unable to take German after that because German on tape... just isn't the same as a German teacher. I am sure a German college professor could have done much better and my English teacher would have agreed.
Adam | 8:58 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
I am very upset with this news! I went to Provo High graduated in 2000 from BYU
and taught AP Chem and Chemisty in California for 6 years. I also have a masters
degree in education. I applied for a position at Provo School district in the
summer of 2006. I didn't even get an interview, and now I hear they have
someone teaching Chemistry without a credential! This is one of the biggest
problems with education. Why can't Utahans pay (qualified) teachers at
least the national average and lower the class sizes to give the students a
proper education. I am no longer teaching because I cannot support my family of
4 kids with the 35k that I was offered to teach at a charter school in Riverton.
But I was willing to make it work if i could have taught and my Alma Mater! Well
its their loss I guess.
The sky is falling! | 10:50 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007
So, last year there were 30 schools on the "advised" list. This year
there are 8. Why didn't the headline read "Utah schools make dramatic
improvement?" Guess that headline wouldn't make the paper.
Rolling my eyes... | 2:15 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Blame it on the administration level position. They are the responsible for
overlooking the operations in each school. They aren't taking their job
seriously, just trying to keep their job intact. They need to roll their sleeves
and do something about it!
TRE | 3:22 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Are some of you commenting without reading the article? The threat of losing
accreditation is because of overloaded classes and teachers teaching outside of
their "qualified" area. These schools had sest limits of the number
of students per teacher per 8 period classes. If our legislature would channel
the funds so that the FTE could be changed and additional teachers hired, then
the student limits could be met. UEA has been trying for years to get our
legislators to understand the importance of lowering class size, but maybe it
will take a few high schools losing accreditation to make them listen. The lack
of "qualified" teachers is also an FTE problem. When the addition of
a class is necessary, it is not always possible to hire another teacher --- even
part-time. The example of an unqualified teacher teaching Chemistry was just
that: an example. The actual specifics were not stated. We DO need more money
in the public ed system to facilitate the increase of students and the classes
that the increase requires. Families with 3+ children are not paying enough
into the school system to make up the difference. We need state leaders with
the balls to take action.
Ken Goddard | 6:51 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Solution: Double the property taxes and tax the non profits and place the money
into education. And get rid of those unsightly, add on, "lambing
sheds". My grandchildren are not lambs.
Tax Us To Death | 11:59 p.m. Dec. 7, 2007
Higher taxes and more funding will do little to fix public education.
Competition for the almight dollar would do wonders. A voucher system was shot
down. How about if we give a tax credit to people who save us taxpayers money
by taking their children out of public schools and put them in private schools.
The private schools that would pop up overnight would do an excellent job,
I'm sure, because they would compete against each other for that same
almight dollar! Doubling property taxes will do nothing but raise people's
rent. The low-income folks whose kids are often (actually, usually) the ones
who do poorly in public schools can then work harder and longer and stay away
from home, thus giving their kids less help and more emotional problems. My
wife teaches, and believe me, most of her problem students -- those that have
trouble learning -- have problems due to their parents. It has nothing to do
with class size or the salary they pay teachers.
Reduce Class Sizes! | 9:58 p.m. Dec. 9, 2007
FYI--I agree with the post that the Headline is misleading.
It seems that reducing class size would fit the problems in the public schools described.
Even when I volunteered to teach on one of my prep periods and had 280 students (no joke), this is insane. But I have to feed my family.
Though reaching accreditation is a big deal because it is a hoop to go through for the schools, I don't think it really gives that great of a picture of the education going on in those schools. Granger has big issues. Provo and Hillcrest are changing dramatically in their demographics and have brought in IB programs. In many cases, IB classes are small and require other teachers to carry higher loads. Perhaps this could explain some of the problems.
In Provo HS's case, the school was rated amongst the best in Utah County by Utah Valley magazine which did look into factors like graduation rates, class sizes, AP offerings and other more "real factors" that really give a good indication of how a school is doing. Provo did just fine, and in fact, rated the highest of any Utah County high school in many categories.
It seems that reducing class size would fit the problems in the public schools described.
Even when I volunteered to teach on one of my prep periods and had 280 students (no joke), this is insane. But I have to feed my family.
Though reaching accreditation is a big deal because it is a hoop to go through for the schools, I don't think it really gives that great of a picture of the education going on in those schools. Granger has big issues. Provo and Hillcrest are changing dramatically in their demographics and have brought in IB programs. In many cases, IB classes are small and require other teachers to carry higher loads. Perhaps this could explain some of the problems.
In Provo HS's case, the school was rated amongst the best in Utah County by Utah Valley magazine which did look into factors like graduation rates, class sizes, AP offerings and other more "real factors" that really give a good indication of how a school is doing. Provo did just fine, and in fact, rated the highest of any Utah County high school in many categories.
overpaid teachers | 5:54 a.m. Dec. 18, 2007
Gimme a break, all we hear about are teachers being "underpaid". If
you ask me, they are grossly OVERPAID. They make $35,000 for 9 mos work- that
is $3888 per mo. Most of the time they are home by 4pm, no weekends, holidays
either. I am a nurse, I work all night keeping people alive, for 12 mos a year,
I dont make as much as these "underpaid" teachers. What a joke!!
Underpaid Teacher | 10:01 a.m. April 3, 2008
To Overpaid Teachers (Nurse),
I am a teacher and I am quite offended by your viewpoint. First, I am never home before 6:00 in the evening, and I live within a block of my school. All of our teachers have to take on extra duties such as after school tutoring, coaching, advisory, etc. We have inservice and meetings afterschool on a regular basis. My contract clearly states that I can't even leave the building until 4 P.M. I personally coach 3 sports--year round--so I never leave the school before 6:00.
Second, I do work nights and weekends. It's called lesson planning and grading papers/assignments. Much of my free time is devoted to these activities, not leizure or my family.
Third, I don't just work 9 months of the year. A chunk of my summer is devoted to attending workshops, training, and taking college classes, all of which are required by my district.
Finally, I think it interesting that you are "keeping all these people alive," but complaing about the very profession who taught and prepared you for your career. Talk about biting the hands that fed you.
I am a teacher and I am quite offended by your viewpoint. First, I am never home before 6:00 in the evening, and I live within a block of my school. All of our teachers have to take on extra duties such as after school tutoring, coaching, advisory, etc. We have inservice and meetings afterschool on a regular basis. My contract clearly states that I can't even leave the building until 4 P.M. I personally coach 3 sports--year round--so I never leave the school before 6:00.
Second, I do work nights and weekends. It's called lesson planning and grading papers/assignments. Much of my free time is devoted to these activities, not leizure or my family.
Third, I don't just work 9 months of the year. A chunk of my summer is devoted to attending workshops, training, and taking college classes, all of which are required by my district.
Finally, I think it interesting that you are "keeping all these people alive," but complaing about the very profession who taught and prepared you for your career. Talk about biting the hands that fed you.
Underpaid Teacher | 11:24 a.m. Dec. 1, 2008
Maybe we should pay teachers like we do for day-care; 3.50 an hour to baby-sit
the kids. Teachers wouldn't have to plan a lesson or anything...just keep
them from killing each other. 34 kids at 3.50 an hour for 7 hours a
day...hm...more than $800.00 a day! I know several teachers who wouldn't
mind that. For smaller class sizes it would look like this. 20*3.5*7 = 490.
Plus, teachers keep people alive too!
re: overpaid teachers | 12:53 p.m. Dec. 7, 2008
Hey nurse,
Come walk in our shoes and I think you would take back your comments. I am a teacher so I speak from experience. I don't work just nine months, as I am required to take classes and attend workshops all summer long. Second, I am never home on weekends, because I coach football, basketball, and track year round. These extra assignments are required by my contract, so I didn't exactly choose to coach this much. Yes, I get a little extra for the coaching, but it amounts to be about .25 cents per hour. In addition, I spend whatever is left of my weekend grading papers and lesson planning. Finally, during the 9 months that school is in session I am dealing with unmotivated, disrespectful kids on a daily basis. By the way, I am never home before 6:00 P.M. and I live just blocks from the school. Please don't mock the profession that was responsible for giving you a career. Where would you be without those who taugh you?
Come walk in our shoes and I think you would take back your comments. I am a teacher so I speak from experience. I don't work just nine months, as I am required to take classes and attend workshops all summer long. Second, I am never home on weekends, because I coach football, basketball, and track year round. These extra assignments are required by my contract, so I didn't exactly choose to coach this much. Yes, I get a little extra for the coaching, but it amounts to be about .25 cents per hour. In addition, I spend whatever is left of my weekend grading papers and lesson planning. Finally, during the 9 months that school is in session I am dealing with unmotivated, disrespectful kids on a daily basis. By the way, I am never home before 6:00 P.M. and I live just blocks from the school. Please don't mock the profession that was responsible for giving you a career. Where would you be without those who taugh you?
.... | 1:09 a.m. Jan. 18, 2009
Where I work I consider it a vacation when I get sent to classes, or workshops.
You cannot compare the hours of coaches to the hours of a regular teacher. Coaching is a whole separate job. I will agree coaches are underpaid, but having worked for 4 years in a large Utah school district I would say teachers are overpaid.
Don't tell me teachers work all summer, because I have had teachers work summers for me and they were still making $50,000 per year not counting their summer work.
You cannot compare the hours of coaches to the hours of a regular teacher. Coaching is a whole separate job. I will agree coaches are underpaid, but having worked for 4 years in a large Utah school district I would say teachers are overpaid.
Don't tell me teachers work all summer, because I have had teachers work summers for me and they were still making $50,000 per year not counting their summer work.
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