Deseret News | Reader comments: Elder Ballard responds to evangelical criticism

Reader comments
Elder Ballard responds to evangelical criticism

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Gloria | 5:10 a.m. Dec. 6, 2007

Great job Elder Ballard! Thank you!

Confused | 7:47 a.m. Dec. 6, 2007

Why aren't Mormons afforded the same rights to believe what they wish with regard to religion?

Wasn't that the premise of the foundation of this country...religious freedom?

Believe me, there are a lot of kooks out there teaching some pretty outlandish things that don't get attacked like the Mormon church.

Why is that? Could there be proof in the pudding? I mean many attacked the very Christ that they claim to profess faith and belief in.

mike | 10:56 a.m. Dec. 6, 2007

Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Luke 6;22.
You know, as Christians of the Christ's restored church - we are peculiar! THAT'S GREAT!
I, for one, see persecution of the church as one of the signs of its validity. Satan never sleeps when truth is awake.

Comments continue below

Say What, Daniel | 11:29 a.m. Dec. 6, 2007

It's so true, if only the protestant leaders could listen to what, me, a non-Mormon Christian would say: what about the many differences found in the protestant churches and those who claim that they are independent. I used to go to Calvary Chapel and now Horizon, and they are quite different from each other even tho they have the same roots. And what about the other christian denominations???

Dr. Lao | 2:40 p.m. Dec. 6, 2007

Jesus Christ said that he would never abandon his church. Apparently he did, since Joseph Smith was needed to "restore" it.

Looks like Jesus was wrong and the bible means nothing, according to Mormonism.

bb | 2:56 p.m. Dec. 6, 2007

Dr. Lao,
Would you please give me the scripture where Jesus Christ said that? I would love to read it...

Craig | 3:45 p.m. Dec. 6, 2007

Dr. Lao evidently the various protestants denominations believe that the church christ organized while he was on earth became corrupted and altered as well.
Otherwise why would they have felt the need to have a reformation and a protestant movement?

Eugene | 3:54 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Elder Ballard is a man of wisdom and underestanding. Mormons should be given the same opportunity to practice their religion as any other faith in this country. The fact that Mitt Romney has to explain himself shows that the country continues to harbor religious bias. The country still has some growing up to do!

Dr. Lao | 4:32 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Oh, I'm just kidding. Joseph Smith is a prophet and the Book of Mormon is inspired scripture.

response | 4:33 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

The article is misleading, Christians don't believe that God is three individuals in "one body." That's not the what is commonly called the Trinity. Christians have never believed that. I don't know any Christians who believe that. If LDS don't understand what Christians believe about the One God, they shouldn't just guess they should read the New Testament (Matthew, Mark. Luke, John, etc), and find out. I don't hold to the Trinity because of the Nicene Creed (I'm not Catholic). I hold to it because its directly taught in the New Testament, and I worship and pray to the Lord Jesus Christ, just like Stephen did. Lord Jesus was crucified, died for our sins and rose from the dead - whoever believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Tim | 4:40 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Dr. Lao, please google "Nicene Creed". The mainstream Christian belief in God and Jesus Christ is based on a political compromise in 325 A.D. in Nicaea, Italy led by the Roman emperor Constantine and is not biblical. Even the reformers as mentioned by Craig could see this, yet in most of their religious services they recite that same Nicene or Athanasian Creed.

hey mr. ballard | 5:11 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

try working in school district w/55% lamanites yet not one building is named in honor of their contrbutions either..the message is very clear..we'll take your money but not you!

D | 5:19 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Jesus Christ didn't abandon His church, the people who made up the church eventually corrupted the church so much, they abandoned His church and teachings. Have you ever read the Nicene Cteed? I don't know how someone can read that creed and beleive it describes Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father.

jane | 5:22 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Dr. Lao, I don't think Jesus Christ abandoned the church, in the New Test. you will find that it was prophesied that the CHURCH (members) would fall away -- even that the day of Jesus return would not come until a falling away came first. God does not make us do things, but invites and inspires and warns. If you will read the N.T. looking for it, you will see the warnings of the corruption the followers had to fight then even!
If you will go to Mormon.org you can check out the scriptures that back it up. "Mormon" is a nick name for The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints.

maybelle | 5:22 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I embrace the LDS concept of God. Many of my friends have a different belief. I am not bothered by this. I feel that they have a right to accept whatever beliefs they choose. Why are they so stressed out about my beliefs? I think they should focus on their own beliefs and leave me alone with mine.

Anthony | 5:48 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Dr. Lao, explain Martin Luther and the 95 thesis he nailed to the church door saying the catholic church had strayed from the truth and became corrupted.

So the mother church had become corrupted and lost the authority.

So the person who says the mother church is corrupted is severing himself from the mother church, isn't that apostasy and cutting himself off from any authority which he was given from the mother church?

So how can someone without authority leave the mother church which is corrupted and start over new without any new revelation coming from heaven?

So any other person or group who would leave the mother church is also cutting themselves off from any authority given to them by the mother church.

So how can they claim authority since there is no new revelation from heaven by their own admission?

Carlos Gonzalez | 5:51 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

It was not Jesus Christ who abandoned the primitive Church, it was the primite Church who abandoned Him. That is why there was a need for a "restoration of all things", as predicted in the Bible.

Mohan | 6:56 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Isn't it marvelous that Mitt Romney ran for President of the United States! Otherwise there would be no discussion of God in the Presidential Election race. Otherwise there would be no interest in the beliefs of this fundamentally different and relatively obscure religion. Otherwise we would be just status quo. But look. He has made a difference already. Whether you vote for him or not he has already made a huge difference. That is what followers of Jesus Christ should do. This is a great time to be alive. Talk of God is being injected back into politics.

Jake | 7:04 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I think when the only so-called christians come to their senses and realiaze why does he have mansions and rolls royce's and were giving our money to him. They will test and find the truth.

MB | 7:05 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Dr. Lao, could you please give me your understanding of what 2 Thessalonians 2:3 means? Thank you.

Carl | 7:19 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

In the end, it will be all of the churches against one. What does that tell you?

Jeffrey | 7:47 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Religions that profess the existence of a Trinity believe...

That a mythical anthropomorphic "Bible-God" impregnated a virgin in order to give birth to himself in order to be sacrificed to himself in order to sit beside himself in order to save the world from himself in some kind of sadistic experiment in psychopathic, self replicating, redemption.

Dave | 7:50 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Elder Ballard proclaims ignorance among evangelicals of the religion of the Latter-day Saints - but displays a similar lack of understanding of evangelical churches when he associates them with the Nicene creed.

Evangelical churches come in many stripes - but the majority acknowledge "no creed but Christ". Mainstream churches (Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Lutheran...) for the most part subscribe to the Apostles' Creed and Nicene Creed (and fewer to the Athanasian Creed) - but the Southern Baptists, among others, do not openly acknowledge the Creeds. The Southern Baptists subscribe to their own statement of faith (the Baptist Faith and Message Statement, which is somewhat controversial even among Southern Baptists).

Wes | 8:12 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I like what Mr. Ballard said about all faiths working together to preserve shared value and grow in mutual understanding. There are so many factures trying to divide us and destroy our families. I think we could agree that our families and society could use our help. The things that divide us are not bigger than the things that unite us. I don't think demonizing fellow Christians helps anyone out. And I bet we can all help each other grow closer to Christ by doing something nice to each other this Christmas season.

Christianity? | 8:20 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Have I done any good in the world today?
Have I helped anyone in need?
Have I cheered up the sad,
And made someone feel glad?
If not I have failed indeed.

Whether Mormon, Evangelical, Catholic, or other, true Christianity is service to our fellowman, which is service to Christ Himself. Keep the First and Great Commandment, and the second, which is like unto it, and all else will come into focus.

For Anthony | 8:21 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I am a Latter-Day Saint, but was raised in the Lutheran Church. I, too, thought Martin Luther left the Catholic Church and started another movement. I have since learned that to be incorrect. While he was defrocked, he was never excommunicated. He continued to be a member of the Catholic church, and hoped to see them change those doctrines that he perceived to be in error. He knew that he did not have the authority to start a church. Only after his death was a movement undertaken to begin a new church, based upon those doctrinal differences. Of course, those who started that new church had no divine authority to do so either.

Rob | 8:23 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Hey I have read many nice comments without trying to cut each other down. Way to go. I am LDS and do respect other people beliefs or non beliefs. I am happy and grateful to be where I am at in my beliefs. I am also grateful for this wonderful season of looking out for others and doing for others. Give one more smile today. Let one more person go ahead of you in line at the store or out driving. Someone did that for me yesterday. Call one more person to tell them how much you appreciate them. Have a beautiful Holiday Season whatever you believe. Show God's love to others.

Understanding Evangicals | 8:27 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. -- Emo Phillips

There could be more religous tolerance in the USA.

Fear? | 8:27 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Like a bunch of cavemen poking something they do not understand with a stick.

The media is doing a bang up job of "pulling back the curtains" on most of these "Gospal for profit centers"

Ernie Hemple | 8:31 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Mr. Comment: your comment "LDS don't understand what Christians believe about the One God, they shouldn't just guess they should read the New Testament" Many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints know what other religions believe because we once were membe3rs of these other religions. I was a catholic when I was growing and I remember the confusion of the doctrine as I attempted to make sense of the Catholic philosophy. This I do remember, that the Holy ghost taught me, even though I was not yet a member the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is my testimony that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is teh Saviors church and that the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored. This is a wonderful gift from a wonderful and loving Heavenly Father to those who will follow the Savior and keep His commandments. Discover for yourself the truth of my testimony and learn how you and your family can enjoy the blessings of eternal life. Visit mormon.org

Secular Progressives | 8:32 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Unfortunately I'm coining a Bill O'Reily term. How I see it, there are so many people out there preaching we have our freedom to do this and do that, what is wrong with being like this or being like that if it's what we want and we're not impacting anyone else. I can do what I want and that is that. Accept everyone for who they are, don't try to change them. Who's to say you are right and they are wrong when it might be the other way around. It's funny that some of the same people with this self-proclaimed mindset, are unaccepting of everyone when it doesn't satisfy their criteria or agenda. Bigotry against any religion is very closed minded and a hypocritical testament to those who claim to be "open-minded."

Re: hey mr. Ballard | 8:34 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I don't know what you are talking about. It sounds like you have concerns in a different area. Perhaps you could explain how that ties in to this discussion.
You apparently have concerns about the American Indians. Perhaps you have that great heritage yourself. I agree that there have been gross oversights in this country in the way the American Indians have been treated. To say that the LDS church has been unsympathetic is a bit of a slap in the face. Part of the problems the LDS church had in Missouri was due to the kind treatment of the Indian population. At that time most Americans thought of the American Indians as little more than brute beasts.

Anonymous | 8:38 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

It's wrong to characterize another religion as a cult based on a difference in theology. It's no more than a fallacious personal attack and a sad attempt to twist perceptions of other faiths.

I wish people would stop exaggerating the wrong differences between LDS theology and culture and other faiths. LDS theology has not controlled my will like a cult would but has rather educated and empowered me to be a stronger, more developed person. The thing is, evangelicals wrongly fear the power in LDS doctrine because they refuse to really understand it. This is really too bad.

Gordon Jensen | 8:38 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

The one respondent mentioned Stephen praying to Jesus but doesn't seem to recall Acts 7:55 that tells that when Stephen was being stoned, he looked up into heaven and saw God and Jesus Christ on His right hand. God did not and does not deceive us by trying to appear as two separate beings when God and the Son are two separate beings. Please read your Bible.

Patrick Pratt | 8:47 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

We can argue beliefs and theology until the cows come home. The real answer to this question is to go the source as the Apostle James directs. Ifa anyone lacks wisdom, ask God with faith and honesty. I cant think of anything simplier. A wonderful response will follow

Questions | 8:48 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Generally, an LDS person will read the Bible and say, "I believe in the Bible and I believe in my LDS religion."

The LDS critics I know don't read the Book of Mormon but say, "I don't believe in the Book of Mormon." Interesting logic......

Catherine | 9:11 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Well said, Maybelle. I feel the same way.

Lauren Thorsteinson | 9:12 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

This is in response to Dr. Lao:

Have you ever thought that maybe Christ didn't abandon his church, but that the people of the world abandoned him? Mormons have never said that Christ abandoned his gospel, but that the people on the earth quit practicing the religion he taught, so it eventually died. That's why they call it the "restored" gospel. Just a thought.

Dr L | 9:24 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Tim: Nicaea was not in Italy. It is in today's Turkey and its name is now Iznik.

Mee Too | 9:32 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Dr. Lao, Christ said he would not ever forget his covenant people, yet one could easily look at the the hardship the Jews have faced for the last 3000 years. Has he forgotten them? No.

You might also want to familiarize yourself with such terms as "Apostasy", "falling away" "Famine for . . . . . hearing the words of the Lord"

All of these instances could be construed as a forgetful God, an abandoning God. However, the concept of the gathering of Israel, or RESTORATION of Israel is a confirmation that our Father does not forget, nor does he change.

After the Apostasy, fallings away, and famines, come the Restoration.
Resurrection is Restoration.
Residency in God's presence will be Restoration.

This is not a new concept.

VRC | 9:34 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Mr. Romney, by opening himself up to such vile criticism over his beiefs, has won my respect and my vote. I'm also becoming more interested in his beliefs, which is what I suspect his most agressive "Christian" critics are really affraid of.

one question... | 9:39 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

If we all can agree that mainline "christians" and Mormons have markedly differing views in many areas, why are LDS folks so offended when those protestant religions insist that they are not christians? It seems to me that there is a large theological split between the vast majority of the Protestant faiths and Mormonism. In this sense, Mormons are not "christian".
Is the fight to maintain the christian label to make it is easier to convert "christians" to mormonism?
I'm an agnostic and don't really have a dog in this fight, but I was raised in a northern baptist home, and I can see why they might be offended.

grundle | 9:43 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

why argue the theology?

One of the tenets of mormonism is:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

These are good words for mormons and believers of all other faiths to heed.

No one needs to defend their faith only their actions.

Sick & Tired | 9:48 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Keep telling it right Elder Holland!! I am so sick and tired of the evangelicals telling me what my beliefs are and using the most vile and bigoted langauage to do it. How can they even call themselves ministers of God and Christ?? How is my Jesus of the Bible, different from their Jesus of the Bibie?? IF for some uncomprehensible reason and possiblility that my faith may be in vain and I end up going to the 'hot place', at least I will have lots of friends to keep me company.

Winner | 10:07 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another,
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

-John 13: 34-35

I love all of you and pray that you willd do the same!

Why? | 10:07 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I'm not trying to be rude or arrogant. I'm really not... I am curious though. "Response" says that all you have to do is beleive in Christ and you will be saved. If this were true, then what is the point of ever trying to do anything right? What is the point of trying to be a good person. What is the point of living righteously? There is no point. If our works play no part in our salvation then we are free to live lives of sin and not have a care in the world. Think about how much worse this world would be in every person lived by this theology. It only makes sense that you must do your very best- of course we will all make mistakes- but if we do the best that we can and ask forgiveness for our sins, then our Savior's atonement will be our salvation. How can it be that we don't even have to try? It just doesn't make sense.

Carrie | 10:21 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

If we Christians profess to truly follow Jesus Christ as our Savior we would all be happier and our community would come together to help each other and there would be more peace and kindness around us. I don't care what religion you belong to, or even if you do not belong to one. I teach my children to love others and treat them with kindness no matter what they look like or what faith they belong to. If we all did that, the world would be a better place to live in. Isn't that what Elder Ballard is trying to say?

TownHeatahan | 10:43 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

Interesting how "the Church" is always perfect (reguardless which religion it is...) but the members are imperfect and you shouldn't judge the religion by the people. News Flash....if you don't have people you don't have a "Church". So the reality is your "Church" is really people...which are fallable. Stop thinking that all your "Church" leaders are "perfect" because they are not. They all make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes are in the sermons or speeches they give, that are taken by many to be doctrine. Just because a person is a Prophet, Apostile, Bishop, Preacher, Minister, Pope...doesn't really change the basics. They will make mistakes and as such...your religion will be ultimately based on those mistakes. That's why there is no " Perfect" religion...because religion is built, bought and made by man...who is fallable.

You want to know the "best" religion? The one that tries to make other people's lives better. The one that shows love, compassion, forgivness, friendship, caring...you get the drift. So pass it on....if you want to be "Religious"...MAKE SOMEONE ELSE'S DAY BETTER...today, tomorrow and for every day for the rest of your life!!!!

Questions even more | 10:47 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

I've read the Bible AND the Book of Mormon, and I can't believe in either one. Both are filled with way too much mean, murderous behavior being explained away as "the will of God."

Think I'll look elsewhere for my own ethics and examples of how one should act. Thank you very much!

Gene | 10:59 a.m. Dec. 7, 2007

As a convert to the LDS Church in later life, I had the opportunity of attending several protestant churches and at the age of 14,after hearing a sermon on the fear of hellfire and damnation I hurriedly joined the Church of Christ. I had always been interested in religious beliefs of others and still am. There are many different concepts in the various Christian, Jewish, Muslim faiths of the world, some, I feel are true, some are not. Truth is truth whereever it may be found. It is because of these varied beliefs and interpretations that, as prophesied in the Old Testament, their would be a restoration of all thing after a great apostasy.
It is this true restored church that I am a member of and to those who have questions about it should take the time to really study and learn the full doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon) Church and pray to your Father in Heaven and you will receive his answer.

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