Deseret News | An alternative to vouchers in the works?

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An alternative to vouchers in the works?

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Moessers | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Anyone read the article in Sunday's Des News about the money that was supposed to go to vouchers if the referendum passed? Apparently it's going to roads! Hahahahaha! I loved how how the anti voucher people were running around screaming that money belongs in the public schools and if you vote for vouchers you're taking it away! LOL... That money was never meant for public education! Now we see the truth behind one of their many anti voucher lies!

Janey | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Dear Moessers, that money they were promising was all along meant to come out of the general fund which is supposed to be for roads, etc. Where the issue comes from is that if they gave the money to education and ran short of money for a road then we the taxpayers would have to come up with more money to build the road. It is a shell game. You sound like a very intelligent person so I am surprised you missed this point. Please don't lol too much or it will give you a tummy-ache for nothing.

Vouchers | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Why do those of you that want vouchers want to taint your high brow ways? Isn't that part of the prestige of private schools? Isn't it really about, see how much better my kids education is than yours? Please don't stoop down and ask for a handout, it may taint the reputation of the private schools.

Comments continue below

Moessers? | 6:16 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

That is because our legislature can't do math, they are 20 million short on the raise the promised.

If only they would of went to a private school. I would actually like to know how many of them actually did graduate form private schools, and how many have kids in private schools. Might there be a conflict of interest?

Future Teacher | 9:43 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

I am at the end of my education to be an elementary school teacher. I have been in several classrooms and seen many types of students, and I have never seen any of them go unnoticed. Teachers are willing to do whatever they can for the different learning styles of their students. They do not just teach them how to fill in bubbles all day, they teach them skills that they will need to carry them throughout the rest of their lives. The hard truth is that "filling in bubbles" is just one way of assessing their improvement. Even if they don't do that in private school, they will in college. Try volunteering in a public school in your area. You might get a different perspective.

Teacher in another state..... | 12:02 a.m. Nov. 16, 2007

I am from Utah and now live elsewhere. As a teacher frustrated with what I am reading, I had to comment...

I think it is always easier to point the finger than it is to seek the truth. Having taught in Utah, and now elsewhere, I know the terrible reputation that public education has. I think it's an absolute shame that the teachers of your great state are taking such a heavy hit from this war on public education. Instead of groups forming together to help solve the problem, they are taking sides to continue to battle out.

Grow up Utah! Work together and FIX THE PROBLEM!! Get off of your individual soap boxes and make a decision on how YOU can help better the education of YOUR youth!

Teachers bust their backsides each and every day (and night too). Support your teachers, challenge the state officials to make changes, and work together until Utah's public education system rises out of the gutter that YOU have placed it in.

Conservative Republican | 12:37 a.m. Nov. 16, 2007

May I please restate one very clear fact for everyone: 62% - Against, 38% - For. That is an emphatic landslide folks. It is crystal clear that very few voters (For or Against) will be changing their minds in the future that would significantly change this outcome. No further discussion needed. I voted Against.

Anonymous | 8:02 a.m. Nov. 16, 2007

The "landslide" vote was 62% "no" on ref 1. Many people I talked with about the vouchers were against the wording (loopholes) of the law, not the idea behind it. If we were to vote on the idea behind the vouchers... it would only take less than 15% to pass.
A landslide is 95% (for those who are dyslexic it may look the same as 62%). The elected officials are trying to follow the wishes of the people who elected them. I am glad they are still trying. I hope they can find a way to pay by merit and reduce class size. The 22 million dollars they are short for teacher raises, I understand, is the fault of the Board of Education here in Utah. They did not present an accurate number of teachers needing a raise.
I hope the discussion about education here in Utah continues. I hope the discussion causes action.

Conservative Republican | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

In politics, anything over 60% is considered a landslide. As witnessed with all the divisive rhetoric and emotion expressed over this subject, you will never get the minimum 12% of the voters in this State to change their mind on this subject. Let's move on to implement appropriate actions to improve the quality of education in the public schools. The use of vouchers to accomplish those actions will never happen in this State.

Anonymous | 3:53 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

To the Conservative Republican
The 12% don't have to "change their mind" they just need the loopholes removed from the vouchers.

Utah needs more options.

Class size needs to be limited to less than 15 students per class in all grades and all schools. This would remove many of the behavior and teaching problems educators now face.
If we increase the sales tax to pay for more teachers, better pay AND the smaller class size, then the public system might have a chance. Sales tax increase would spread the burden more equitably than property tax and allow visitors of our state to contribute. We could make better use of the schools we have now by teaching in shifts. A 6am to noon and noon to 6pm would cut class size in half without building new schools.
Remember never is a long time.

Homer | 5:25 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

Isnï¿½t it over yet? Apparently someone didn't get the memo. Even Curtis is begging these voucher fanatics to calm down for a year. In a direct election by the people, the highly debated voucher law has been overturned. Now, after beating us up with the same old arguments about choice and poor people and competition and schools failing, etc. the voucherites bring up a new proposal. Now it's a tax credit to take the money another way. Even after such a solid election defeat of vouchers, we still can't even refocus the debate on education. People are still grabbing for the money.

When the public says ï¿½noï¿½, why must we continue to argue about using public money to finance and support a private enterprise, to pay for private choices? Public education is one of the most important institutions in our society. The argument from this point on should be about how we use our resources, energy and vision to support and improve our schools to meet the challenges of the future.

Conservative Republican | 6:10 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

To Anonymous: Twelve percent in this referendum is 60,000 voters that needs to be convinced that "eliminating loopholes" will sway them in favor of vouchers. I believe it is safe to assume that half of those 60,000 will never change their mind. Compromise is not their strong point - they will vote their emotions on this one.

Anonymous | 7:16 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

They don't need to be swayed. The reason they did not vote "yes" is due to the loopholes. I think many more than the mere 60,000 would be interested.

OHIO? | 2:29 a.m. Nov. 17, 2007

Concerned in Ohio says UEA is funded by taxes. He's wrong. Of course, since he doesn't live here I guess we can cut him some slack. But maybe he should concern himself with the schools and the Association in Ohio. The voucher bill that didn't pass, WAS BAD. Ironically enough, provoucher people forget that even before it went to referendum Utah voters/citizens did not support vouchers. We may find that some type of voucher system will work for us. But make no mistake, anything that goes to private schools from the state will come from one tax fund or another. I guess that's what we need to decide if we accept. As far as tax credits for businesses, what's the point? So Richard Byrne can build his private school here (he owns some other places) and then a deduction because he gives money for scholarships. Isn't that a conflict of interest? Utah has decisions to make, my hope was that the trash talk and rhetoric would stop so we can work on them. No article I've seen in either paper, makes me feel like it's a possibility.

The Boy | 12:13 p.m. Nov. 18, 2007

Those who want public funds for private schools - in any form - are hypocrites. They are trying to claim their desires are grounded in the "free enterprise" system, and are for the good of "children," but the truth is they are acting in a way that is antithetical to "free enterprise," and they just want a piece of the lucrative education dollar - they are interested in their own businesses, not in education - except for the elitist education of their own, spoiled, rich children!

Don't be fooled. This is another wolf in sheep's clothing.

May West | 9:16 p.m. Nov. 18, 2007

Vouchers lost. Get over it. Let's move on.

RE: LGU | 10:42 a.m. Nov. 19, 2007

Nice comments LGU!!

Career teacher | 9:01 p.m. Nov. 19, 2007

Some say the public school system is broken. So fix it! When your car needs repairs, do you buy a new one? Why should taxpayers fund private schools when the public schools need the money desperately and serve everyone? Let's begin with school boards and administrators: what are they doing to improve our schools? Make them accountable - if they do not make reasonable efforts to improve education and manage finances, we find someone else. Cut waste. Eliminate textbooks (most are outdated before they are shipped to the school). A well-stocked teacher library should provide all the resources needed to teach a specific unit. Students should learn to use the school library and the Internet to find information on topics studied. They should learn to read and spell vocabulary in the academic units. Students should provide their paper and pencils. Teachers should not have to use expensive photocopiers to provide each student with a prepared copy of every lesson. Let the students copy the information from the board or a computer monitor. They will learn as they write - and practice penmanship, too. Most importantly, get back to basics. Public schools are in the education business. Period.

l | 1:14 a.m. Nov. 20, 2007

Conservative Republican | 12:37 a.m. Nov. 16, 2007

May I please restate one very clear fact for everyone: 62% - Against, 38% - For. That is an emphatic landslide folks. It is crystal clear that very few voters against vouchers will be actually reading or researching the issue, which would cause them to change their minds in the future that would significantly change this outcome. No further discussion needed, because we won't listen to reason anyway. I failed to properly research the issue and voted Against.

thank you legislators | 11:53 a.m. Nov. 21, 2007

They are doing their best to fix what's broken - and yes, Utah education is broken no matter how much you try to say it is not. Utah is ranked 38th in the nation when it comes to education, down from 33rd the year before. If 62% of the state thinks that's ok, no wonder vouchers lost. I guess you can't expect people with a 3rd rate education to make a first rate decision.

Guess who's ranked #1? Vermont. They've had vouchers in effect for over 100 years. They've held that ranking for some time now...

I'd rather learn from the best than cave to the almighty UEA and continue to live the status quo. When will Utah learn?

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