Deseret News | Reader comments: No support = no teachers

Reader comments
No support = no teachers

jeremykidd | 7:32 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Teachers could certainly use more support, but no one deserves support until they earn it, and a lot of us feel that good teachers don't get enough support from within the system, since they don't get rewarded for their skills, just for being around longer than anyone else. More to the point, a lot of us feel that teachers, as a general class, are more interested in maintaining their power base than in making any sort of substantive reforms of the system. We feel sorry for good teachers stuck in a rigid, semi-oppressive system (for teachers), but they lose some of that good will when they refuse to press for any meaningful reform. The mantra of "more money" gets a bit tiresome after a while.

Vote them out | 7:40 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Any legislator that tries to harm public ed in any way should be voted out. The public has spoken. We don't want anything this legislative session but support for out public schools and teachers.

A $10,000 - $15,000 raise this year is in order.

Please make it happen and stop looking for the magic bullet that will finally kill public ed.

Mrs. Teacher | 7:48 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

After being told by the Deseret News Editorial board a dozen years ago that "Zion" would never have a teacher shortage, it's wonderful to see the D-News finally support the work of the Utah Education Association. The UEA has been fighting to improve the working conditions and pay of Utah's teachers for decades. The highest class sizes in the nation coupled with unreasonable legislative mandates and a general attitude that anyone can teach have so crippled educators ability to be successful that even those of us who have made it a lifetime vocation are ready to quit. That's why so many of us join and support our association in a state where it isn't required. Maybe UEA will finally get the recognition it deserves for being at the forefront of the battle while others stood by and watched.

Comments continue below

Angela | 9:01 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Your editorial hit the nail on the head! I finshed college more than ten years ago and planned to teach once the children were older. Now that I have reached that crossroads, teaching doesn't seem that appealing. My husband has been teaching for 11 years and I have watched first hand the struggles that teachers face. Money is only part of the problem. It seems that every day there is an article about failing schools in America and it usually comes down to teacher quality. Even before I set foot in a classroom, I won't be teaching well enough. Only politicians get more negative criticism for their work than teachers! Give me a job where I can clock in, work the best I can, and clock out. I don't want to bring all the work, and negativity, home to my family.

WC | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

I've never agreed with a Des News Editorial more. Excellent!

Doug | 9:57 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

I don't want to see teachers paid a penny more than they already are until they (as a collective unit) weaken their selfish union; grow up and face the fact that if they are no longer beneficial, high-quality educators they should leave the profession and stop disservicing our children for their own selfish occupational retention; and start firing the very crummy teachers that are bringing the system down.

Once this is accomplished, I'd happily support doubling the pay of teachers through tax dollars.

UEA needs to wake up | 11:29 a.m. Nov. 15, 2007

And as one who is working in public education, and having several family members working in schools across the Wasatch Front...

...I have to admit that UEA's one great flaw is fighting differentiated pay for teachers. By fighting the opportunity to allow good teachers to be paid more than poorly performing teachers, UEA is single-handedly killing public ed's chances to progress and to receive the funding it needs.

Take the handcuffs off us, UEA. Fight for differentiated pay and turn this into a free market system. Either that, or the legislature will do it for you. And don't even think of repeating a strike. You will not find support among us, your members.

KH | 1:16 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

I'm glad I haven't heard any strike talk from the UEA lately. I don't have kids in school so it wouldn't affect me, but nothing would erode public support for teachers more than to go on strike anytime soon. Too many, a teacher strike sends the message that "Our salaries are more important than your kids education". Not the right message to send at this time with public support wavering.

Non UEA teacher | 1:16 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

I was VERY upset last year when the UEA opposed this. There is no reason a science or math teacher should be making the same as other teachers.

Their college program was tougher and they are in high demand.

This is one change I predict will happen this year. Differentiated pay for different subjects.

It is a good thing plus the legislators can feel like they are getting back at the UEA.

Retired Teacher | 1:28 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

I guess it is now time to pay the piper. Jeremykidd, Doug and those that complain about some teachers being over payed don't get it, even these "poor" teachers leave the profession in large numbers in the first four years. If you can't do the job, you would be insane to stay for another 25 years, especially since even these "poor" teachers can do better in other professions. There aren't even enough "poor" teachers to fill the classrooms.

Since teacher salary is public information, how would it work if you or your children ended up in the lower paid "poor" teacher's class while your neighbor's child ended up in the "good" high payed teacher's class? I can imagine the meeting that would take place in the principal's office.

The DesNews editor is exactly right. University students no longer choose education, especially women, because they see the lack of respect for teachers from students, parents and community groups. Low pay is the final insult, since in our society, we judge professional worth by salary. No problem though, Gov. Huntsman can help recruit in Mexico again, and Utah can continue to staff schools with Mexican teachers.

RE: KH | 1:41 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Public support wavering?

The public support was overwhelming in the last election.

Tim | 2:00 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Amen to the tougher college programs. They say at BYU that a science education degree takes 5 years. And a lot of those classes are the same classes the pre-meds and pre-dents take...and so they're extremely hard.
On the other hand, I'm currently getting licensed to teach English. Most of my English classes have been fairly easy. Not nearly as demanding as some of those science classes.

Curtis Blanco | 4:36 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

If Utah would invest in a first class education, which we are starting to do by reforming and improving Math education, this will pay dividents as we will become smarter people and quality business too will have more reason to want to come here. We can't successfully carry out these reforms by paying teachers such low wages. We are being penny wise and pound foolish. All teachers should be paid more, and there should be high standards for teacher quality at the same time.

Anonymous | 6:44 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Sick of snow? Tied of being dumped on and getting no respect. We have a teacher shortage in Sacramento. Here you know winter is near when the oranges start to ripen and the camellias start blooming. You can ski Saturday, see a show at Lake Tahoe Saturday night, play a round of golf Sunday and if it's a three day weekend, you could go sailing on Monday.

Karen | 7:26 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

Tim, did you ever think that the English classes are easy for you because that's where your talent lies? I know too many math and science teachers and engineers who can't spell nor put together a cogent sentence to think that they can do math or science because they are smarter than I am.

It's a skill set. I will never accept that a new teacher of math deserves a higher salary than I, who am a successful teacher of English. We're actually doing the same job. Teaching youngsters. Same job, same compensation.

Do the math! | 9:24 p.m. Nov. 15, 2007

According to state education figures, the public education of students is currently funded by the taxpayers at about $7500 for each student (total costs divided by number of students). This means a class of 25 students receives $187,500 and a class of 30 students receives $225,000 in total funding (on average of course).

Now I know there are lots of costs associated with running a school district (buildings, buses, utilities, administrators, etc.) but it seems that even if only a third of the funds went to the teachers that would mean an average salary of between $62,500 and $75,000 per year (very respectable for 9 to 10 months of work).

I'm sorry, but if a system can't find a way to get a third of the funding into the hands of those doing 90% of the real work, something is terribly broken. Sounds like too much is spent on non-essential things.

Scientist | 1:29 a.m. Nov. 16, 2007

Reading and art are more important than math and science. Don't distinguish salaries by topic.

Bill VL | 10:39 a.m. Nov. 16, 2007

I am continually appalled by the lack of insite and understanding expressed in these posts. Lets pay math and science more, no lets pay english and musice teachers more. Are you people really that naive?
If you can't read and comprehend what you've read, you won't be able to do math and science. If you don't have music and the arts, the rest of life won't be worth much.
All these disciplines support each other. Breaking the monopoly the UEA has and making teaching competitive like most other proffessions is the only way that the system will ever be improved or saved.

Maggie | 8:32 a.m. Dec. 9, 2007

I would like to know how to handle principals who micromanage their teachers. I have this situation and need some advise.

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