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Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid
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The Good ol' Days | 10:37 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Do the memories of my youth fail me?
How sad when another bubble bursts to expose the greed of man...
How sad when another bubble bursts to expose the greed of man...
Scouter Man and Dad | 11:00 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the comments condemming
scouting.
I live in rural Washington, and yet some of our CEOs of companies smaller than the Great Sale Lake Council make about the same amount as Paul - so no, I don't think he is overpaid.
I hope that everyone who is bashing the church's support of scouting has the guts to go to the Conference Center next General Conference and raise their hand in opposition to the church leaders who endorse Scouting. Its easy to be faceless here and write, but lets see some real courage.
For a number of folks like me who are ardent scouters (unlike the claims of some who have written here) FOS is but a small amount of what we consecrate (Any LDS remember that word) to scouting. My Scouting contributions are greater than my full tithe, and I will continue to do so as I have seen the program benefit youth across the world.
My "contributions" have more than been made up due to my son's $60,000 college scholarship based almost entirely on his scouting achievements.
I'll be watching conference in April to see how much courage is present!!!!!
I live in rural Washington, and yet some of our CEOs of companies smaller than the Great Sale Lake Council make about the same amount as Paul - so no, I don't think he is overpaid.
I hope that everyone who is bashing the church's support of scouting has the guts to go to the Conference Center next General Conference and raise their hand in opposition to the church leaders who endorse Scouting. Its easy to be faceless here and write, but lets see some real courage.
For a number of folks like me who are ardent scouters (unlike the claims of some who have written here) FOS is but a small amount of what we consecrate (Any LDS remember that word) to scouting. My Scouting contributions are greater than my full tithe, and I will continue to do so as I have seen the program benefit youth across the world.
My "contributions" have more than been made up due to my son's $60,000 college scholarship based almost entirely on his scouting achievements.
I'll be watching conference in April to see how much courage is present!!!!!
Comments continue below
To Scouter Man and Dad... | 11:34 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
That's nice that your Scouting contributions are more than your tithe.
It's also nice that your kid has a scholarship. But, NEWSFLASH...the vast
majority do not have these luxuries. For me and my family personally, we
struggle to make ends meet, and then we are browbeaten into donating to FOS.
I'm a huge believer in the values of Scouting, but I absolutely will not
donate one more penny to FOS. Find another way to pay professional Scouters.
Scouter Man and Dad...I have absolutely no problem raising my arm to the square and sustaining our beloved Church leaders, and holding a current recommend. I support Scouting, but I will not support FOS ever again. I am simply looking after the best interests of my family, we don't have the luxuries you do. FOS is certainly NOT a matter of consecration--you are WAY OFF BASE on that comment. I find it highly insulting and pious. I'm doing everything I can to provide, and just b/c I will never donate to FOS again makes me no less of a devoted Church Member than you.
Scouter Man and Dad...I have absolutely no problem raising my arm to the square and sustaining our beloved Church leaders, and holding a current recommend. I support Scouting, but I will not support FOS ever again. I am simply looking after the best interests of my family, we don't have the luxuries you do. FOS is certainly NOT a matter of consecration--you are WAY OFF BASE on that comment. I find it highly insulting and pious. I'm doing everything I can to provide, and just b/c I will never donate to FOS again makes me no less of a devoted Church Member than you.
Silver Fox to WOW | 11:40 a.m. | 11:39 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Your remark... "In 1994 I started my career making $23,600 a year. Today I
make just under $70,000. I feel I have earned this salary, and know for a fact
that I could be making well over double that in a for profit company doing what
I do." ...struck an entitlement cord to me. Perhaps you should leave
professional scouting and attempt to earn $140,000 with your skill set. An
attitude adjustment might be in order for you. These few comments come from a
parent who is tremendously proud of his two Eagle Scout sons. The people that
provided great role models for them did not come from the ranks of professional
scouters, but rather from volunteers in from our ward. For at least two of these
men, your idealized income of $140,000 would have been a pittance in each of
their cases. I'm grateful for your service, however, I believe your sense
of entitlement is off base.
Ideals worth shooting for | 11:42 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I am disappointed in all of the ranting. The objectives of scouting and the
means of reaching them are sound. The quality of local units depends completely
on the families and leaders in the unit. Local leaders who can inspire the youth
have an amazing impact on young men.
I don't know what the professional scouters do, and I don't really care. The ideals and methods of scouting are good enough reasons to support the program. It isn't perfect because no human, nor-human run program is.
Each boy, each parent, each leader, each person should do their best and let the consequences fall where they may. Learning the ideals of honesty, setting goals and reaching them, or organizing and leading are a few things scouting offers. Many boys will gain from this and many will discount it and squander the opportunity. Just like students in school. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
I don't know what the professional scouters do, and I don't really care. The ideals and methods of scouting are good enough reasons to support the program. It isn't perfect because no human, nor-human run program is.
Each boy, each parent, each leader, each person should do their best and let the consequences fall where they may. Learning the ideals of honesty, setting goals and reaching them, or organizing and leading are a few things scouting offers. Many boys will gain from this and many will discount it and squander the opportunity. Just like students in school. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
Scouting Supporter | 12:11 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
To those LDS members out who don't like scouting or think that the church
should drop the program; perhaps you should visit the official church website at
lds.org and conduct a search. I typed in "scouting" and got 1571 hits
of church leaders endorsing scouting. I also typed in "boy scouts"
and got 984 hits. It appears to me that the church fully intends to use this
program for a very long time.
For those of you who think that the general church officers do not understand the so called high level of compensation for the very top executives (entry level executives are compensated poorly to modestly) you are very mistaken. President Monson is the longest serving member on the national board. He is instrumental in selecting the National Chief. Furthermore, other church officers are directly involved in the finances of Utah's councils and in the selection of their top executives.
There are multiple quotations from church leaders endorsing the scouting program. They even go as far as to say that it is an "inspired program". Why do we have such a difficult time accepting the words of the lord's prophets? We should support scouting financially.
For those of you who think that the general church officers do not understand the so called high level of compensation for the very top executives (entry level executives are compensated poorly to modestly) you are very mistaken. President Monson is the longest serving member on the national board. He is instrumental in selecting the National Chief. Furthermore, other church officers are directly involved in the finances of Utah's councils and in the selection of their top executives.
There are multiple quotations from church leaders endorsing the scouting program. They even go as far as to say that it is an "inspired program". Why do we have such a difficult time accepting the words of the lord's prophets? We should support scouting financially.
Anonymous | 12:57 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I serve as a Scouting volunteer. I was not
�called� to serve
� I volunteered. I know all of the local executives
intimately. They work 60-80 hours per week including nights, weekends, early
mornings, etc. for next to nothing. Some of them gave up jobs where they could
be earning DOUBLE because they care about the boys they serve. During the
summer, in addition to their regular duties, they oversee Scout Camps where they
work from 6:00 am to midnight every day � around 95-100
hours per week on average. They do this year after year after year. Why? To
get rich? Hardly.
They drive their own cars hundreds of miles a month to remote areas � mostly beat-up second-hand cars because that is all they can afford. They consider going to Wendy�s on a business trip to be excessive. They work out of offices filled with used office furniture that has been donated. These are not volunteers. They are professionals with college degrees, families to feed, student loans to pay, etc. I don�t know what you do for a living, but I doubt you put in as much time for as little compensation as the average professional Scouter.
They drive their own cars hundreds of miles a month to remote areas � mostly beat-up second-hand cars because that is all they can afford. They consider going to Wendy�s on a business trip to be excessive. They work out of offices filled with used office furniture that has been donated. These are not volunteers. They are professionals with college degrees, families to feed, student loans to pay, etc. I don�t know what you do for a living, but I doubt you put in as much time for as little compensation as the average professional Scouter.
Anonymous | 1:52 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
How about a comment on the bad use of statistics in the article?
Let�s compare the AVERAGE salary of the top-paid profession in the state (OB/GYNs) with the top salary of an individual in a single organization.
Do you understand what an average is? You take ALL the salaries, add them together and then divide by the number of people being averaged. This means that at least some (maybe even more than half � look up the difference between �mean� and �median�) make MORE than the average. Oh my!
Why isn�t everyone up in arms about the obscene amount that OB/GYNs earn? Or physicians, or lawyers? The article said that the beginning salary for professional Scouters is $2K LESS than Utah�s average salary. So why aren�t we upset with the average employee for earning more?
Why don�t we try this:
Take the AVERAGE salary of a professional Scouter and compare it to the average salary of nearly any other profession that requires a college degree. Then let�s talk about inflated salaries.
Let�s compare the AVERAGE salary of the top-paid profession in the state (OB/GYNs) with the top salary of an individual in a single organization.
Do you understand what an average is? You take ALL the salaries, add them together and then divide by the number of people being averaged. This means that at least some (maybe even more than half � look up the difference between �mean� and �median�) make MORE than the average. Oh my!
Why isn�t everyone up in arms about the obscene amount that OB/GYNs earn? Or physicians, or lawyers? The article said that the beginning salary for professional Scouters is $2K LESS than Utah�s average salary. So why aren�t we upset with the average employee for earning more?
Why don�t we try this:
Take the AVERAGE salary of a professional Scouter and compare it to the average salary of nearly any other profession that requires a college degree. Then let�s talk about inflated salaries.
Cindy | 1:56 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I feel the nerve touched by this article isn't envy or jealousy, but faith.
The BSA asks a lot from people who serve because of faith in God and Church,
who otherwise might admire but have no inclination to join the BSA. BSA
bureaucracy has been a burden to many unwitting LDS adults, who accept scout
callings because of faith, but find they must attend many more meetings than the
Church requires in almost any other ward calling, almost invariably to discuss
and plan the self-perpetuation of the BSA and its programs, not the spiritual
well-being of boys. They are asked to demonstrate loyalty to an organization
that while good, simply is not as powerful as the Church to which they are
devoted. As a Primary scouter I wanted the boys to love the Savior. Time spent
weekly helping boys make birdhouses, etc., helped accomplish that in some small
way. But monthly roundtables made the service a burden. Monthly pack meetings
are a family burden. Scouting is great, but maybe both organizations can better
achieve their objectives by shaking hands, thanking each other for their mutual
contributions over the decades, and parting ways.
Anonymous | 2:11 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Why don�t we talk for a moment about the source of funds in
a council. In most councils FOS is a small portion (25% or less) of the total
revenues used for the council�s operating budget. Much of
the average council�s revenue comes from endowment earnings
(interest on investments). Many councils are supported heavily by sales
Popcorn.
In Utah, people have been too cheap to give to the endowment fund. While the UNPC is the largest council in membership and units, its endowment fund is the smallest in the country! People would rather pay FOS than make a meaningful donation that will last into perpetuity.
We also have a problem with selling Popcorn. For every dollar of popcorn sales, Trails� End Popcorn gives 1/3 to the unit and 1/3 to the council. Many councils sell hundreds of thousands of dollars of popcorn a year � representing as much as 50% or more of their operating budget. In Utah, we are looking at less than 3% of operating budget from popcorn sales. Our units would rather pay for Scouting out of budget funds and FOS.
Would we be whining about executive salaries if only a small % came from FOS?
In Utah, people have been too cheap to give to the endowment fund. While the UNPC is the largest council in membership and units, its endowment fund is the smallest in the country! People would rather pay FOS than make a meaningful donation that will last into perpetuity.
We also have a problem with selling Popcorn. For every dollar of popcorn sales, Trails� End Popcorn gives 1/3 to the unit and 1/3 to the council. Many councils sell hundreds of thousands of dollars of popcorn a year � representing as much as 50% or more of their operating budget. In Utah, we are looking at less than 3% of operating budget from popcorn sales. Our units would rather pay for Scouting out of budget funds and FOS.
Would we be whining about executive salaries if only a small % came from FOS?
Compensatation must be equitable | 5:05 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Recently, I spoke with my sister who lives in a ward where the scouts put the
flags up on holidays and then take them down.
Only here house is the only one that doesn't have a flag.
Why? She feels like raising 6 children, and as a stay at home mom, living on a very tight family budget, she can't afford the $20-$40 donation each year to raise scouting funds.
I love scouting, but believe there our leaders should set an example and receive compensation that is equitable.
I am troubled that too many of our organizations pay their executives handsome sums of money when families live paycheck to paycheck and struggle to make ends meet.
I love the scouting program, but thinks there should be a review of where the money is going. I believe there are retired and experienced scout leaders who could lead the organization on much smaller salaries.
Only here house is the only one that doesn't have a flag.
Why? She feels like raising 6 children, and as a stay at home mom, living on a very tight family budget, she can't afford the $20-$40 donation each year to raise scouting funds.
I love scouting, but believe there our leaders should set an example and receive compensation that is equitable.
I am troubled that too many of our organizations pay their executives handsome sums of money when families live paycheck to paycheck and struggle to make ends meet.
I love the scouting program, but thinks there should be a review of where the money is going. I believe there are retired and experienced scout leaders who could lead the organization on much smaller salaries.
A local volunteer | 6:55 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
All this about money. As a district volunteer who has done FOS, I see budgets,
I see FOS directly benefiting boys � and do not begrudge
salaries.
Why difference in attitudes towards FOS? Our goals are the same �per boy� � take total budget, divide by total boys to determine cost per boy. $140 last year. Set goal at 50% of that or $70.
Our presentations to non-LDS units � �What did your son get from Scouts last year? Worth the cost of 2 Big Mac meals a month?� These families see, experience value. The families of the participating boys in blue collar units in even our poor neighborhoods see the value � and far exceeded goals. PLUS support Scouts through popcorn sales with 33% going DIRECTLY TO THE BOY.
Same goal formula for LDS units � but the stake raised less than half of their goal � and, even though SLC OK�d popcorn sales, do not support that either even though the same 33% would go DIRECTLY TO THE BOY for HIS effort.
Why the different outcome?
And where can you get free training? Low cost camps (look around at other camps)? It is a BARGAIN for my $$$!
Why difference in attitudes towards FOS? Our goals are the same �per boy� � take total budget, divide by total boys to determine cost per boy. $140 last year. Set goal at 50% of that or $70.
Our presentations to non-LDS units � �What did your son get from Scouts last year? Worth the cost of 2 Big Mac meals a month?� These families see, experience value. The families of the participating boys in blue collar units in even our poor neighborhoods see the value � and far exceeded goals. PLUS support Scouts through popcorn sales with 33% going DIRECTLY TO THE BOY.
Same goal formula for LDS units � but the stake raised less than half of their goal � and, even though SLC OK�d popcorn sales, do not support that either even though the same 33% would go DIRECTLY TO THE BOY for HIS effort.
Why the different outcome?
And where can you get free training? Low cost camps (look around at other camps)? It is a BARGAIN for my $$$!
Another Scouting Supporter | 7:39 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
As long as the Church uses the Scouting program for the Young Men, it should be
supported.
But does supporting and funding our local scout troops also include the FOS? I believe that President Hinckley said at one point that "quotas" for FOS were not to be made.
Over and above tithing and fast offering, ALL other contributions - Humanitarian fund, Missionary fund, etc. are purely voluntary and not mandatory, or a requirement of being a faithful Church member! Not contributing to FOS does not mean we do not support or sustain our Church leaders!
A great many people donate land, properties and money to BSA. Many others leave endowments, or legacies in their wills. Income from investment of these funds could be used to compensate Professional Scouters. I do not know enough to comment on whether or not they deserve their salaries. I can see where the perception that FOS funds being collected to pay these salaries could be very upsetting, particularly where Bishops, Counselors, Scoutmasters, and the Scouts are going out and pressuring, lightly or not, everyone in the ward to donate.
But does supporting and funding our local scout troops also include the FOS? I believe that President Hinckley said at one point that "quotas" for FOS were not to be made.
Over and above tithing and fast offering, ALL other contributions - Humanitarian fund, Missionary fund, etc. are purely voluntary and not mandatory, or a requirement of being a faithful Church member! Not contributing to FOS does not mean we do not support or sustain our Church leaders!
A great many people donate land, properties and money to BSA. Many others leave endowments, or legacies in their wills. Income from investment of these funds could be used to compensate Professional Scouters. I do not know enough to comment on whether or not they deserve their salaries. I can see where the perception that FOS funds being collected to pay these salaries could be very upsetting, particularly where Bishops, Counselors, Scoutmasters, and the Scouts are going out and pressuring, lightly or not, everyone in the ward to donate.
Why not pull out | 7:40 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
let the BSA be what they want to be without the financial pressure of making the
LDS Church happy (as complained by one professional scouter in this post).
At the tiem for the Gay Scoutmaster Supreme Court Case, I was living in Southern California and an article came out in the paper saying all the pressure of keeping the gay scoutmaster was coming from the LDS Church. Otherwise, the case would have been settled and there would have been gay scoutmasters in the BSA.
The days of Fred MacMurray and "Follw Me Boys" are gone and the days of the scouts becoming an inclusive liberal organization are coming soon (when all of the LDS monies dry up, the high-paid executives will look to other sources for their checks,(heaven fobid they give up the Escalades and the BSA Bling), and scouting will be sold to the highest bidder (sorta as it is done now).
I see a whole new emergence of the BSA ober the next few years, and the sad thing is the greed to the "thrifty" organization brought it all down.
Thanks again to the DMN for their illuminating article. Now we have informed choice about FOS.
At the tiem for the Gay Scoutmaster Supreme Court Case, I was living in Southern California and an article came out in the paper saying all the pressure of keeping the gay scoutmaster was coming from the LDS Church. Otherwise, the case would have been settled and there would have been gay scoutmasters in the BSA.
The days of Fred MacMurray and "Follw Me Boys" are gone and the days of the scouts becoming an inclusive liberal organization are coming soon (when all of the LDS monies dry up, the high-paid executives will look to other sources for their checks,(heaven fobid they give up the Escalades and the BSA Bling), and scouting will be sold to the highest bidder (sorta as it is done now).
I see a whole new emergence of the BSA ober the next few years, and the sad thing is the greed to the "thrifty" organization brought it all down.
Thanks again to the DMN for their illuminating article. Now we have informed choice about FOS.
To Bonnie at 720 pm 11-12 | 7:44 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Bonnie said: "I think that people who don't give to FOS are plain
CHEAP.... People who don't give money to charity are just covetous and
selfish"
I say: "I choose which charities I support. I resent you saying that my choice about supporting FOS (one of thousands of "charities" in the USA) makes me covetous and selfish. If this is the mindset of professional scouters and their families (which you appear to be), it's no wonder that so much anger flared up when the DMN provoked this discussion."
Here's my solution for the issue of people being pressured into supporting FOS: don't ask for donations anymore. Make the boy scouts work for any money the program receives. And I mean work (washing cars, mowing lawns, etc.), not selling popcorn. This is more in line with the original goals of the scouts. "A Scout works to pay his way and to help others" (from the Scouting Law).
And for Bonnie: "A Scout is a friend to all....He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own."
(Even those who don't like FOS?)
I doubt we need to scrap BSA but how about a good close look at FOS?
I say: "I choose which charities I support. I resent you saying that my choice about supporting FOS (one of thousands of "charities" in the USA) makes me covetous and selfish. If this is the mindset of professional scouters and their families (which you appear to be), it's no wonder that so much anger flared up when the DMN provoked this discussion."
Here's my solution for the issue of people being pressured into supporting FOS: don't ask for donations anymore. Make the boy scouts work for any money the program receives. And I mean work (washing cars, mowing lawns, etc.), not selling popcorn. This is more in line with the original goals of the scouts. "A Scout works to pay his way and to help others" (from the Scouting Law).
And for Bonnie: "A Scout is a friend to all....He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own."
(Even those who don't like FOS?)
I doubt we need to scrap BSA but how about a good close look at FOS?
Scouting and the church | 7:58 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I have lived in many places thoughout the US and have seen the scouting program
in mant areas, as well as having my sons in scouts.
First, scouting isn't for everyone! However the Church's programs should be. The focus should be on the child, not the program. (Read Conf talk by Elder Oaks). When the program is failing more boys than it is helping, its time to get rid of the program, scale it back so that only those who want it can have it, and develop something that will work.
When a ward uses compusion and guilt to force boys (or their fathers)into scouting then they are WRONG, no matter how noble they think of their cause.
Also, for those of you who start quoting prophets and apostles, be careful who and how you quote it! These men are only expressing their opinions, as scouting has NEVER been included as a revelation to be put in the D&C nor is it a requirement for salvation.
First, scouting isn't for everyone! However the Church's programs should be. The focus should be on the child, not the program. (Read Conf talk by Elder Oaks). When the program is failing more boys than it is helping, its time to get rid of the program, scale it back so that only those who want it can have it, and develop something that will work.
When a ward uses compusion and guilt to force boys (or their fathers)into scouting then they are WRONG, no matter how noble they think of their cause.
Also, for those of you who start quoting prophets and apostles, be careful who and how you quote it! These men are only expressing their opinions, as scouting has NEVER been included as a revelation to be put in the D&C nor is it a requirement for salvation.
RE:Scouting Supporter | 8:02 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Scouting was not built on prophecy. It is a secular program that the churh
aligned with. Nothing more.
The lord has never asked me nor commanded me to give to the FOS.
As patriarch of my family, after much prayer and fasting, I have recieved inspiration that with being blessed with just two daughters, I am to no longer give to FOS (as I HAVE been doing because I "thought" it helped the boys in the ward) and will spend it on my daughters ballet and soccer, which will help them build grace and character.
Sorry FOS, this giver has been inspired another direction, and the words of the lord's prophets back me up, as they have made me patriarch over my family.
I hope you ("Scouting Supporter 12:11 a.m.) are willing to accept the words of the lord's prophet and back me and others as we continue to pray for and recieve guidance for our families.
The lord has never asked me nor commanded me to give to the FOS.
As patriarch of my family, after much prayer and fasting, I have recieved inspiration that with being blessed with just two daughters, I am to no longer give to FOS (as I HAVE been doing because I "thought" it helped the boys in the ward) and will spend it on my daughters ballet and soccer, which will help them build grace and character.
Sorry FOS, this giver has been inspired another direction, and the words of the lord's prophets back me up, as they have made me patriarch over my family.
I hope you ("Scouting Supporter 12:11 a.m.) are willing to accept the words of the lord's prophet and back me and others as we continue to pray for and recieve guidance for our families.
Dave | 8:12 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
To SE Idaho:
I audited the GAs for several years, so I'm a little more informed about their compensation packages then the fabled few.
The ignorant masses here are falling for the old envy game socialists have played for years. The Deseret News wants you to vote with them next election for their favorite socialist and the easiest (and oldest) way to get the public upset is with the unfairness of higher pay.
See today's article on college presidents' pay. Think.
They want Joe Sixpack (part of the ignorant masses--those who don't think, but go along with the others) to say it's unfair for someone else to be making more than him--and vote with those who promise more taxes on the wealthy and more welfare for the poor.
That's the agenda. You fell for it. Thus, my reference to your being ignorant.
Have a good Bolshevik day.
I audited the GAs for several years, so I'm a little more informed about their compensation packages then the fabled few.
The ignorant masses here are falling for the old envy game socialists have played for years. The Deseret News wants you to vote with them next election for their favorite socialist and the easiest (and oldest) way to get the public upset is with the unfairness of higher pay.
See today's article on college presidents' pay. Think.
They want Joe Sixpack (part of the ignorant masses--those who don't think, but go along with the others) to say it's unfair for someone else to be making more than him--and vote with those who promise more taxes on the wealthy and more welfare for the poor.
That's the agenda. You fell for it. Thus, my reference to your being ignorant.
Have a good Bolshevik day.
Anonymous | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
How can you support scouting without supporting friends of scouting? Where is
the money supposed to come from? Most of the guys who make $50,000 have
probably been there at least 15 or 20 years, and $50,000 is not very much money
to provide for a family on. And big deal, the guy over scouting for the ENTIRE
STATE makes $200,000. If you want the best people to run your programs,
you've got to be willing to pay for it, which is one reason why Utah has
such a hard time holding on to good teachers. Get rid of scouting and
you're going to have a hard time finding a good program to take its place.
Mark | 8:27 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
@a local volunteer:
Yeah, it's about money, remember that the money is being raised from those who can barely afford it.
The big issue is the absolute hypocrisy of Scouting. We teach the boys to "pay their own way", but the executives (with our help, through FOS) are scamming little old widows who want to help the boys.
Yeah, it's about money, remember that the money is being raised from those who can barely afford it.
The big issue is the absolute hypocrisy of Scouting. We teach the boys to "pay their own way", but the executives (with our help, through FOS) are scamming little old widows who want to help the boys.
Tommy in Texas | 8:36 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
My first impression of the negative comments is that they are all from a bunch
of self-righteous and I dare say sacriligious LDS members who are acting like a
bunch of Pharisees. They have no true understanding of what is taught in
Scouting. And for those who make the excuse that they didn't get much out
of it as a youth, I'd venture to say they didn't put much into it. As
an Eagle Scout, Scouter, and current Priesthood Leader, I can tell you first
hand that the experiences that these boys can have is worth every bit of the
money we spend on it. The amount of financial support that LDS units provide to
the councils is such a small percentage of the whole that those who said they
would no longer contribute should be ashamed of themselves. Do the words
"follow the Prophet" mean nothing to any of you anymore? He and the
rest of the brethren support Scouting and that is the reason why it is a part of
mutual. For those of you that have forgotten that, go back and read Amos 3:7 and
D&C 1:38. We haven't forgotten that in the "mission field".
BigHealey | 8:41 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
This should be extremely embarrassing for the executives of the scouting
program. I am applauded by the ridiculous salaries being paid to scout
executives. I am also sadden by the message this sends to other volunteers and
the scouts themselves. This is a classic example of leaders losing sight of
the very goal they are trying to foster. Look at the Scout law. A Scout is
thrifty, looks like they failed on that one. A scout is Trustworthy, the
leaders may be technically trustworthy they are certainly are not very
forthright in their disclosures. We have been told for years that professional
scouters are paid minimal salaries. This comes pretty close to being dishonest
to me. A scout is Loyal, try selling that to the scout master who is working
full-time to feed his family and giving hours and hours every week and vacation
time to take boys on scout camps. We cannot have leaders saying one thing and
living another. That is what is happening today and unless it is corrected it
will cause the entire program to collapse. The values of scouting are self
evident, however the organization is broken. Please correct it before it is
completely irrelevant.
Big Macs | 8:41 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I feel badly for those who volunteer their time, but I have never been asked for
as little as 2 Big Macs per month (much more).
Until these salaries get in line, I'd rather have my 2 Big Macs.
Until these salaries get in line, I'd rather have my 2 Big Macs.
BigHealey | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
If our highly paid scout leaders are performing plumbing, garbage or snow
removal duties, they are not the managers that should be making 6 figure
salaries. While this was said to indicate how committed they are to the
program, it also shows that they have a broken organization. If they are the
great managers that they seem to think they are, we should have a council that
is efficient and well run. Anyone who has had to register scouts, advance
scouts, purchase awards for scouts or participate in scout sponsored camps
realize this is not the case. I have always overlooked this believing that
they were doing the best they can on very limited resources. It is now clear
that they have the resources; they are just not going to the scouts, but going
to the leaders instead. This is a poor use of trusted funds. I have been
mislead. You cannot continue to ask for more money until you can demonstrate
that you have been a good steward over the money you have previously received.
Shame on the professional scouter as they try to justify these ridiculous
salaries and the poor service we have received in return.
LDS Scouter in non-LDS Troop | 9:02 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
The reason LDS Scouting units are dysfunctional is because there is great
disinterest by LDS members. Look at successful LDS units and you see
leaders/families that support Scouting. If there is no support or interest, then
the program stinks. That's why my son and I are in a non-LDS unit. It
functions well because folks want to be there, get the necessary support, and we
pay our $140 to FoS because we see the program for what it is.
Yes, these senior execs are making big bucks. Think how much experience they have, how many years they've been in Scouting. In a typical company, who makes the big bucks? Is it the new guy who has been there a couple years, or the guy with 20-30 years?
The DesNews does a fine job of sensationalizing this pay issue. Their goal is to sell product, and big stories is how they do it. They don't tell you how FoS is broken out, or the breakout of donations to other charities like the United Way or ARC. Pay is only one part of the FoS picture. Do some research into the whole picture and learn where the money goes, then complain.
Yes, these senior execs are making big bucks. Think how much experience they have, how many years they've been in Scouting. In a typical company, who makes the big bucks? Is it the new guy who has been there a couple years, or the guy with 20-30 years?
The DesNews does a fine job of sensationalizing this pay issue. Their goal is to sell product, and big stories is how they do it. They don't tell you how FoS is broken out, or the breakout of donations to other charities like the United Way or ARC. Pay is only one part of the FoS picture. Do some research into the whole picture and learn where the money goes, then complain.
Suzanne B. | 9:05 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I don't understand why the church uses the Scout program the way it is
currently run. There are limited funds for all other organizations so that all
the money can be dumped into Scouting, and then we are still bugged about
fundraisers and have to buy the costly books,uniforms, etc. for our boys.
Surely the church can come up with a better program that wouldn't be
costly, just as is done for other church programs. Those who wish to be
involved in Scouting can do it on a community level just like other
extra-curricular activities and we can stop using church funds and sponsorship.
That is sacred money and dedicated time that we put into our callings. It just
doesn't feel right. It seems to go against how our church is normally run.
Laman & Lemuel | 9:10 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
"Hey Laman, can you believe Nephi wants us to tear ourselves away from our
big screen TVs, fancy cars, and big houses - and write a $50 check once per year
to support Scouting? I know our dad (the prophet) asked us to do it, but this
is ridiculous. Let's go tie Nephi to a tree and smite him with a rod for a
while, OK?"
Murmur, murmur, murmur, murmur, murmur....
Murmur, murmur, murmur, murmur, murmur....
To Scouter Man and Dad | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
It's wonderful that your boy has been able to get scholarships to college,
but...
it seems like your attribution of that to scouting might be a little stretch.
How about the role of his parents? This is a big thing for you and your boy and surely you had some part in it.
How about the role of genetics? A child with trisomy 21 (for example), helped through the scouting program, will still not benefit in the same way.
How about the role of the school he went to, whether it was public, private, or homeschool? Surely the college took his grades and classes into account.
I agree that scouting, applied properly can result in a huge net benefit to a boy. But it is just one factor. And I believe the role of money in scouting today could be looked at separately from the actual historical theory of scouting.
it seems like your attribution of that to scouting might be a little stretch.
How about the role of his parents? This is a big thing for you and your boy and surely you had some part in it.
How about the role of genetics? A child with trisomy 21 (for example), helped through the scouting program, will still not benefit in the same way.
How about the role of the school he went to, whether it was public, private, or homeschool? Surely the college took his grades and classes into account.
I agree that scouting, applied properly can result in a huge net benefit to a boy. But it is just one factor. And I believe the role of money in scouting today could be looked at separately from the actual historical theory of scouting.
arc | 9:26 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
"The voting membership of a Boy Scout Council, including SLC, is composed
of "Chartered Organization Representatives", of which each ward or
Stake has at least one. If these people actually go to meetings and vote, they
decide the direction and budget and everything else about the local Council,
including the membership of the Executive Committee and other groups that make
salary recommendations."
I would guess that most of the COR's don't go to the meeting. If they do next year, I hope they cut Paul's salary in 1/2. If we loose him fine. Scouting is worth the money. But we are waisting it with salaries over $100k.
I would guess that most of the COR's don't go to the meeting. If they do next year, I hope they cut Paul's salary in 1/2. If we loose him fine. Scouting is worth the money. But we are waisting it with salaries over $100k.
grundle | 9:34 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I think that we should be careful not to equate support for scouting with
sustaining our LDS Church leaders...They are not the same.
The church has changed it's programs many times to try and fit the needs of the members at the time. If Scouting fails to fill the needs then the LDS Church leaders will no doubt modify or abandon the program. This would leave the "Scouting is an inspired program" crowd in the cold. (...or maybe the opinion that our leaders are uninspired?)
Also...I do not believe that having an opinion concerning the BSA (pro or con) constitutes apostasy. I have an opinion that our chapels are too bland and our meetings are boring and un-engaging. I still go and still have a conviction that I am in the right place.
(Couldn't we at least have a picture of Christ in our chapel?)
The church has changed it's programs many times to try and fit the needs of the members at the time. If Scouting fails to fill the needs then the LDS Church leaders will no doubt modify or abandon the program. This would leave the "Scouting is an inspired program" crowd in the cold. (...or maybe the opinion that our leaders are uninspired?)
Also...I do not believe that having an opinion concerning the BSA (pro or con) constitutes apostasy. I have an opinion that our chapels are too bland and our meetings are boring and un-engaging. I still go and still have a conviction that I am in the right place.
(Couldn't we at least have a picture of Christ in our chapel?)
Anonymous | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Why can't the boys work for their funds. Wouldn't that be a great way
to teach them the scouting ideals. My father never allowed us to participate in
fund raisers. However, from age 12 and up, we were expected to mow lawns in the
summer, rake leaves in the fall and shovel walks in the winter. Hard work will
create more "character" than any program. At age 14 I was a dishwasher
at a restaurant near Cottonwood mall. I rode my bike to and from work, and I
lived 5 miles away. My brother did the same. Neither of us became Eagle Scouts,
but we learned a lot more from the value of hard work our father taught. And now
as an employer, I'd much rather have a kid that can work, than a kid who
has merit badges.
I find it ironic that the church worked to clear out panhandlers from downtown, but has no problem sending them around my neighborhood.
I find it ironic that the church worked to clear out panhandlers from downtown, but has no problem sending them around my neighborhood.
To local volunteer: | 9:55 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Your comment is a powerful argument for separating LDS sponsorship from the BSA.
Let local units of committed volunteers and boys do it. I couldn't agree
more. Let's take the priesthood authority compunction out of the equation.
All in favor?
FOS Fundamentally Wrong | 10:02 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Whether you like the scouting program or not (I do by the way), I think it is
wrong for LDS wards to take on the responsibility of fund raising. It should be
the BSA.
I'm not here to bash scouting. I think it's both a worthy and useful cause. For the past 12 years my wife and I have been heavily involved as volunteers in two states where we've lived. I have glady given of my time and resources to support scouting. I've used my vacation days for years for scout camps etc. I've absorbed costs personally because I knew there was no ward budget to pay for them.
I have no regrets. It's been done for the boys in my wards including my own sons. I'll continue to volunteer.
However, Friends Of Scouting doesn't and never has felt right to me. I think it's wrong for our bishops to plead for support over the pulpit (I've done the pleading from the pulpit by the way). I think most people who give think the money stays in the ward - it doesn't.
BSA should take over this activity. It's the right thing to do. I'm convinced of that.
I'm not here to bash scouting. I think it's both a worthy and useful cause. For the past 12 years my wife and I have been heavily involved as volunteers in two states where we've lived. I have glady given of my time and resources to support scouting. I've used my vacation days for years for scout camps etc. I've absorbed costs personally because I knew there was no ward budget to pay for them.
I have no regrets. It's been done for the boys in my wards including my own sons. I'll continue to volunteer.
However, Friends Of Scouting doesn't and never has felt right to me. I think it's wrong for our bishops to plead for support over the pulpit (I've done the pleading from the pulpit by the way). I think most people who give think the money stays in the ward - it doesn't.
BSA should take over this activity. It's the right thing to do. I'm convinced of that.
Back to basics | 10:02 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Nice to see people defend scoutism. But the basic issue here is not the possible
value of that program, but the outrageous salaries paid, while the money comes
from donations under pressure.
Next, from a worldwide perspective, the Church should not support any more the boy scouts program, which anyway is mainly limited to the U.S. We need the same, strong, worldwide Mormon program for both boys and girls in all countries. If some parents still want scouting for their children, or weekly gymnastics, or foreign language clubs, or whatever, all right, but not tied to the Church.
Next, from a worldwide perspective, the Church should not support any more the boy scouts program, which anyway is mainly limited to the U.S. We need the same, strong, worldwide Mormon program for both boys and girls in all countries. If some parents still want scouting for their children, or weekly gymnastics, or foreign language clubs, or whatever, all right, but not tied to the Church.
Sure, let's unionize | 10:07 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Those saying the ward CORs should vote and demand this and that. HA! Are you
serious? As a bishopric counselor, the COR is high enough on the food chain that
he can put a guilt trip on 10-15 other people in the ward to help him beg for
money, and he is someone that most ward members will cough up money for when he
appears on your doorstep. Other than that, he exists to take pressure off the
bishop and to support the stake leaders. I can imagine the phone call from the
stake to the bishop if a COR started agitating. "What the HECK is he doing?
Doesn't he know he is letting us down?" Yeah. Good luck with that.
Turned Off | 10:16 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Like several others, I too was a scout master for 3 years and am still involved
in our local group. I will be thinking very hard come next fall when the money
plate gets handed out. There are many other organizations that I am associated
with that could use that money as well. The amount being paid is way too much
given all the people that have to really sacrafice to make scouting work.
To volunteer: | 10:17 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Are your non-lds unit parents paying tithing and "generous" offerings?
Supporting a missionary? Maybe the well gets a little dry sometimes. Scouting is
a worthy cause. There are hundreds of other worthy causes out there that could
also use support.
The district camp comments above struck a chord. I've only been to a couple of week-long events, but I never saw an adult leader. The place was run by kids, with maybe a mid-20s older kid in charge. I don't have a problem with scouting, but let it be for those who WANT to be involved.
The district camp comments above struck a chord. I've only been to a couple of week-long events, but I never saw an adult leader. The place was run by kids, with maybe a mid-20s older kid in charge. I don't have a problem with scouting, but let it be for those who WANT to be involved.
John Doe | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
There is little doubt that executives of BSA are highly compensated, as are
executives in many different non-profit organizations ranging from Churches to
charities.
And there is an ongoing debate about the ethics of such disproportionate compensation - the huge gap between the compensation of those "in the trenches" and those in the executive offices.
Forbes reported in 2004, "The heads of America's 500 biggest companies received an aggregate 54% pay raise last year. As a group, their total compensation amounted to $5.1 billion, versus $3.3 billion in fiscal 2003."
This gap is a measure of social stratification and instability as the gap between the rich and the poor increases to levels that begin to stimulate disenfranchisement among lower classes, calls for reform, rebellion, and ultimately revolution.
Most Christians generally, and active LDS in particular, understand that this fundamental human inequality is not consistent with the doctrines of Jesus. The repugnance they feel when reading about overpaid Scout leaders is a trustworthy ethical sensibility that should not be ignored. As a "lower class" of society, we must be ever vigilant in monitoring those in (economic & organizational) power over us to ensure human equality is not lost.
And there is an ongoing debate about the ethics of such disproportionate compensation - the huge gap between the compensation of those "in the trenches" and those in the executive offices.
Forbes reported in 2004, "The heads of America's 500 biggest companies received an aggregate 54% pay raise last year. As a group, their total compensation amounted to $5.1 billion, versus $3.3 billion in fiscal 2003."
This gap is a measure of social stratification and instability as the gap between the rich and the poor increases to levels that begin to stimulate disenfranchisement among lower classes, calls for reform, rebellion, and ultimately revolution.
Most Christians generally, and active LDS in particular, understand that this fundamental human inequality is not consistent with the doctrines of Jesus. The repugnance they feel when reading about overpaid Scout leaders is a trustworthy ethical sensibility that should not be ignored. As a "lower class" of society, we must be ever vigilant in monitoring those in (economic & organizational) power over us to ensure human equality is not lost.
Ron | 10:36 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
You've just got my last donation to FOS. Also the United way uses in excess
of 70% of the moneys raised to fatten someone's pocket book.
Hey, Dave | 10:49 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
When I grow up, I want to be as cool as you.
How did you become so condescending?
What's your secret, man???
How did you become so condescending?
What's your secret, man???
Scouting Supporter | 10:52 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I have been in Scouting for 28 years. It is a great organization and my boys
have benefitted greatly from Scouting.
I must admit having a husband working 60 - 90 hours a week for 24 years and not receiving any compensation but a layoff does make Paul Moore's salary way off base. My husband was making under minimum wage for his time. Pay our council executives what they are worth and not misuse the funds to pay the top end. If he can make better money elsewhere, then I feel he needs to go.
I know a GSLC secretary was paid a whopping $5 hour when she retired and would have been paid double that amount in corporate America. What makes his job more special than someone who does all the work? If this was the corporate world great, but this is a non-profit organization and relies on donations from outside sources. I am not pleased with how our hard earned money is being spent. I'm totally for Scouting, but it needs some URGENT attention and evaluation. If Marty Latimer would have been paid that amount he never would have left. GSLC you need to FIX this problem!!
I must admit having a husband working 60 - 90 hours a week for 24 years and not receiving any compensation but a layoff does make Paul Moore's salary way off base. My husband was making under minimum wage for his time. Pay our council executives what they are worth and not misuse the funds to pay the top end. If he can make better money elsewhere, then I feel he needs to go.
I know a GSLC secretary was paid a whopping $5 hour when she retired and would have been paid double that amount in corporate America. What makes his job more special than someone who does all the work? If this was the corporate world great, but this is a non-profit organization and relies on donations from outside sources. I am not pleased with how our hard earned money is being spent. I'm totally for Scouting, but it needs some URGENT attention and evaluation. If Marty Latimer would have been paid that amount he never would have left. GSLC you need to FIX this problem!!
Will support scouting ... but | 10:54 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Because scouting is still endorsed by the Church, I will continue to support it.
I will support the local troop to the best of my ability, and continue to
participate in their fund-raising activites, etc.
My son hated scouting, but participated because otherwise there would have been little or no association with other members in our mission field area. He had excellent men leading him that he respected, admired and still does. They are still his friends today.
The GA's support scouting, but to my knowledge they have never made it a good membership requirement, or a commandment, that we donate to FOS (we don't have that in our area). The only amount we are required to donate in order to receive a temple recommend is a full tithing! The rest, Fast Offering, Humanitarian fund, missionary fund, Perpetual Education Fund, local, community and national charities etc. are purely voluntary, and will bring with them their own rewards.
No member should be told they are not supporting their Church leaders by not donating to FOS!!! Does the Church 'punish' the Bishops/Stake Presidents who do not make their quota? Who provides the pressure to fill this amount?
My son hated scouting, but participated because otherwise there would have been little or no association with other members in our mission field area. He had excellent men leading him that he respected, admired and still does. They are still his friends today.
The GA's support scouting, but to my knowledge they have never made it a good membership requirement, or a commandment, that we donate to FOS (we don't have that in our area). The only amount we are required to donate in order to receive a temple recommend is a full tithing! The rest, Fast Offering, Humanitarian fund, missionary fund, Perpetual Education Fund, local, community and national charities etc. are purely voluntary, and will bring with them their own rewards.
No member should be told they are not supporting their Church leaders by not donating to FOS!!! Does the Church 'punish' the Bishops/Stake Presidents who do not make their quota? Who provides the pressure to fill this amount?
Roundhouse I | 11:30 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I am so grateful for LDS leaders who have vision, the Spirit, and don't
listen to the barking dog as the wagon rolls forward. Do you honestly think
Thomas Monson who has sat on National BSA boards for so many years didn't
know about these salaries? Grow up. At last years scout camp, I was so grateful
for the volunteers and the paid staff. They did so much for my boys that my ward
would never have been able to do in its present non-volunteer attitude state.
Obviously many are not learning what Scouting is or the skills required to run
it or the skills learned by both leaders, parents and boys. I taught
Communications MBadge this last week, Personal Management the week before, and
sat in on others. We are going to visit a local city council meeting this week.
I will have Scoutmaster conferences coming up followed by Boards of REview. What
changes needed to take place to account for the changing needs? MBadges have
changed almost yearly to be updated with computers, job skills, etc. WHile in
the US Army, I had many seargents tell me that the Army was not Scouts. By their
language (continuted)
Bryan P | 11:38 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Why don�t we talk for a moment about the source of funds in
a council. In most councils FOS is a small portion (25% or less) of the total
revenues used for the council�s operating budget. Much of
the average council�s revenue comes from endowment earnings
(interest on investments). Many councils are supported heavily by sales
Popcorn.
In Utah, people have been too cheap to give to the endowment fund. While the UNPC is the largest council in membership and units, its endowment fund is the smallest in the country! People would rather pay FOS than make a meaningful donation that will last into perpetuity.
We also have a problem with selling Popcorn. For every dollar of popcorn sales, Trails� End Popcorn gives 1/3 to the unit and 1/3 to the council. Many councils sell hundreds of thousands of dollars of popcorn a year � representing as much as 50% or more of their operating budget. In Utah, we are looking at less than 3% of operating budget from popcorn sales. Our units would rather pay for Scouting out of budget funds and FOS.
Would we be whining about executive salaries if only a small % came from FOS?
In Utah, people have been too cheap to give to the endowment fund. While the UNPC is the largest council in membership and units, its endowment fund is the smallest in the country! People would rather pay FOS than make a meaningful donation that will last into perpetuity.
We also have a problem with selling Popcorn. For every dollar of popcorn sales, Trails� End Popcorn gives 1/3 to the unit and 1/3 to the council. Many councils sell hundreds of thousands of dollars of popcorn a year � representing as much as 50% or more of their operating budget. In Utah, we are looking at less than 3% of operating budget from popcorn sales. Our units would rather pay for Scouting out of budget funds and FOS.
Would we be whining about executive salaries if only a small % came from FOS?
Question to Deseret News | 11:40 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Why are no comments after 8:27 a.m. this morning coming up??? The number of
comments keeps increasing, but when you click on the link, it doesn't show
the last several at least!
Roundhouse II | 11:38 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I could tell they were not Scouts but when they could not get a fire started to
warm themselves in humid weather, I always asked if they wanted this Scout to
help them start the fire:) Everyone wants to change Scouting but it usually
comes from those who do not understand it or have the vision of Scouting. Pres
Hinckley said that our boys need to learn knots be/c there are so many knots
being unraveled in our society and they don't know how to tie or keep the
knot tied. Priesthood, Gospel, and Scouting go hand in hand. Maybe your
experience in scouting doesn't fit your Mormon gospel myth but if you keep
trying with an open heart it will be revealed to you. Comparing teachers to
scouting is ludicrous. TEachers are paid through forced monies (taxes) and FOS
is voluntary. It proves again that when people donate to good causes, the money
multiplies. When people are forced to pay (taxes) for gov't things, their
desire to donate drops. And don't talk about accountability. How many
millions were just spent by teachers unions to defeat vouchers and you cry about
your pay when your union has $ to (continued)
Anonymous | 11:49 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I think its important for them to pay the executives that much. It brings
continuity to the process. Also, I would want to be paid that much if I had to
where those green pants as part of my full-time work.
Bryan P | 11:50 a.m. Nov. 13, 2007
I know all of the local scouting professionals in my community personally. They
are dedicated to improving Scouting in meaningful ways. These are people who
devote on average 60-80 hours per week including evenings, weekends, etc.
leaving their families at home. They work on salary (i.e., they
don�t get paid more for working longer hours
� they don�t get overtime) in dingy
offices on used office furniture. They consider eating at
Wendy�s on a business trip excessive. These are NOT people
who are in Scouting to get rich.
Several of the professionals I know have put in decades to Scouting service; slogging it out year after year dealing with whiny Scout leaders who refuse to attend the training meetings they put together or participate in the activities they help organize. Some of these professionals have advanced degrees and have walked away from careers where they should be earning 2-3 times what they are paid. Did they do this to get rich off of the contributions made by others? Hardly! They did it, and do it, to make a difference in the lives of young people.
Several of the professionals I know have put in decades to Scouting service; slogging it out year after year dealing with whiny Scout leaders who refuse to attend the training meetings they put together or participate in the activities they help organize. Some of these professionals have advanced degrees and have walked away from careers where they should be earning 2-3 times what they are paid. Did they do this to get rich off of the contributions made by others? Hardly! They did it, and do it, to make a difference in the lives of young people.
Bryan P | 12:04 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007
Where did the author learn statistics? I am not sure what is scarier; the bad
comparisons made in the article or the fact that so many people in the threads
above were swayed by them.
Example:
The highest paid professionals in Utah are OB/GYNs. However, to compare their AVERAGE compensation with the compensation of the TOP executive in an organization is ridiculous. For those who failed statistics (as the author must have), an average (also called �mean�) is found by adding up all the salaries and dividing by the total number in the group. Unless every single OB/GYN earns an average salary, this means that some earn MORE than average. My guess is that some earn a LOT more!
I have an idea, compare the average salary of all scout professionals in a district with the highest paid OB/GYN. What, does this sound ridiculous?
For that matter, compare the average salary of scout professionals with the AVERAGE salary of any profession requiring a college degree.
Example:
The highest paid professionals in Utah are OB/GYNs. However, to compare their AVERAGE compensation with the compensation of the TOP executive in an organization is ridiculous. For those who failed statistics (as the author must have), an average (also called �mean�) is found by adding up all the salaries and dividing by the total number in the group. Unless every single OB/GYN earns an average salary, this means that some earn MORE than average. My guess is that some earn a LOT more!
I have an idea, compare the average salary of all scout professionals in a district with the highest paid OB/GYN. What, does this sound ridiculous?
For that matter, compare the average salary of scout professionals with the AVERAGE salary of any profession requiring a college degree.
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Why the insulting tone?
To be blunt, I've known a few GAs. Their compensation is modest. Most of the benefits you were mentioning are myths.
What I'm trying to figure is why your are implying that the LDS church leaders are the ones being sneaky.
The real issue is Scout Execs. Is there salary justified given the source of funds? The answer, overwhelmingly, is no.