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Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid
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Scouter B | 3:09 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
It seems a major issue here is the fact that the LDS church has so much
authority over what happens in the church units. The Catholic Church is the
second largest supporter and user of Scouting (and it is not the official church
youth program), and each Pack and Troop has to stand on its own and is not
regulated by the Church.
The local council board sets the budget, which in most BSA councils is published. Attend council meetings if you want to see change. Find out who in your area serves on the Executive Board, and let them know your concerns. Also, funding in most councils is not raised the way it is in Utah.
The local council board sets the budget, which in most BSA councils is published. Attend council meetings if you want to see change. Find out who in your area serves on the Executive Board, and let them know your concerns. Also, funding in most councils is not raised the way it is in Utah.
can't pay enough | 3:10 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I think that they should get paid what they can. I hate scouts personaly, but
my boys love it. It is a good program and helps boys become men, they should
receive more than the president. As should teachers, moms and dads that
lovingly raise children, people who work with the elderly, and other service
oriented organizations. Why begrude the profesional scouter?
Comments continue below
Ticked | 3:12 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
It looks like its time to add a new award to scouting for lifetime
professionals: Silver Weasel!
Casting stones??? | 3:19 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Lambasting those who serve as professionals seems to be the order of the day.
My experience as a professional � being away from my family for 2� months each of the last 3 summers to manage a camp, gone a min of 4 nights a week. And compare the cost of Scout camp to any other week long camp. No comparison � Scout camp is LEAST EXPENSIVE.
While at camp and at district activities I am responsible, accountable, for health and safety of the boys. Including health and safety of LDS boys whose LDS leaders drive through campsites (driving around �no vehicles past here� gates), who flagrantly violate safety rules regarding bringing firearms, who allow boys to ride in beds of trucks � violating rules and laws, who bring generators, DVD players and TVs with R rated movies for their quorum boys to watch, who have boys with less than 60 days tenure in Scouts receiving merit badges that require more than 90 days to complete, and on and on. Tesponse of the Ward and Stake leaders to these issues of health, safety and integrity: Mr. Professional, that is YOUR problem.
Lets watch the stones we throw!
My experience as a professional � being away from my family for 2� months each of the last 3 summers to manage a camp, gone a min of 4 nights a week. And compare the cost of Scout camp to any other week long camp. No comparison � Scout camp is LEAST EXPENSIVE.
While at camp and at district activities I am responsible, accountable, for health and safety of the boys. Including health and safety of LDS boys whose LDS leaders drive through campsites (driving around �no vehicles past here� gates), who flagrantly violate safety rules regarding bringing firearms, who allow boys to ride in beds of trucks � violating rules and laws, who bring generators, DVD players and TVs with R rated movies for their quorum boys to watch, who have boys with less than 60 days tenure in Scouts receiving merit badges that require more than 90 days to complete, and on and on. Tesponse of the Ward and Stake leaders to these issues of health, safety and integrity: Mr. Professional, that is YOUR problem.
Lets watch the stones we throw!
Anonymous | 3:21 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
From President Hinckley's talk "Slow to Anger" that he gave in
General Conference last October, "Once a man who had been slandered by a
newspaper came to Edward Everett asking what to do abou it. Said Everett,
'Do nothing! Half the people who bought the paper never saw the article.
Half of those who saw it, did not read it. Half of those who understood it, did
not believe it. Half of those who believed it are of no account
anyway.'"
Do YOU represent LDS attitudes? | 3:30 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The individual who posted YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW is so right! He had been in a
good program with parents and leaders with good attitudes - and guess what
experience the boys had??? A GOOD ONE. Imagine that!
Then you have Camp Little Lehmi issue - where the LDS youth had indecent contact with boys, whose "issues" preying on boys was known by the Ward and Stake leadership who RECOMMENDED HIM to serve at camp WITH THE KNOWLEDGE of his abuse - at least twice - Church recommends the known abuser serve on camp staff - abuse continues - and who is primarily blamed... The BOY SCOUTS.
You know, there are plenty of issues to go around.
No program (inside Scouting or outside) has been good when participants are mandated to participate as YM are.
And before you complain about "BSA registers EVERY BOY, whether they participate or not" - The SLC Church MANDATES the registration. The BSA national, locally and the boys and leaders in the local troops would be better off WITHOUT those quorum membersh who choose not to participate.
Too many "fake" Eagles, too many dangerous situations - Why does the LDS church allow this BEHAVIOR?
Then you have Camp Little Lehmi issue - where the LDS youth had indecent contact with boys, whose "issues" preying on boys was known by the Ward and Stake leadership who RECOMMENDED HIM to serve at camp WITH THE KNOWLEDGE of his abuse - at least twice - Church recommends the known abuser serve on camp staff - abuse continues - and who is primarily blamed... The BOY SCOUTS.
You know, there are plenty of issues to go around.
No program (inside Scouting or outside) has been good when participants are mandated to participate as YM are.
And before you complain about "BSA registers EVERY BOY, whether they participate or not" - The SLC Church MANDATES the registration. The BSA national, locally and the boys and leaders in the local troops would be better off WITHOUT those quorum membersh who choose not to participate.
Too many "fake" Eagles, too many dangerous situations - Why does the LDS church allow this BEHAVIOR?
Anonymous in SUU | 3:32 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
For all those reading these comments, consider this:
Read each comment in the spirit for which it is written. If it is negative and mean-spirited, just delete it from your brain. These poeple are murmuring anyway against something they have no testimony of. Only read the comments that offer solutions, not pettiness. They certainly don't complain about all the tithing money that pays for church worker salaries, and what do they do?
I heard a story recently about a stake that approached the Scouts about how to increase their missionary percentages 18%, and the Scouting professional coached the stake leaders to implement the program with training and activities (roundtable) at all . The stake responded that their percentages increased to 38% in a few months. Sounds like Scouting is still relevent to me.
The corporate side of Scouting runs like a business and probably needs improving. Hold their feet to the fire, and ensure the services they promise are being met. The best way to do that is to GET INVOLVED and change it from the inside. If you don't have time, don't complain, don't donate, but surely don't destroy the good program that it is.
Read each comment in the spirit for which it is written. If it is negative and mean-spirited, just delete it from your brain. These poeple are murmuring anyway against something they have no testimony of. Only read the comments that offer solutions, not pettiness. They certainly don't complain about all the tithing money that pays for church worker salaries, and what do they do?
I heard a story recently about a stake that approached the Scouts about how to increase their missionary percentages 18%, and the Scouting professional coached the stake leaders to implement the program with training and activities (roundtable) at all . The stake responded that their percentages increased to 38% in a few months. Sounds like Scouting is still relevent to me.
The corporate side of Scouting runs like a business and probably needs improving. Hold their feet to the fire, and ensure the services they promise are being met. The best way to do that is to GET INVOLVED and change it from the inside. If you don't have time, don't complain, don't donate, but surely don't destroy the good program that it is.
fund missions | 3:33 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The LDS Church is trying to keep the cost of missions down and help pay for more
missionaries in the 3rd world. Why not take the money spent on manditory scout
registration and use it to pay for more missionaries worldwide? This seems a
possible better use of church funds to promote the spread of the Gospel and the
mission of the church.
Dear Ticked | 3:35 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Sad that you paint "lifetime professionals" with "Silver
Weasel".
The Church itself has endured many scandals - Should the Church be painted as a "House of Scandal"?
Church members have been convisted of child sexual abuse - Should there be a "Silver Groper" award?
Sad that GOOD PEOPLE have to read YOUR postings and feel the hatred you (supposedly a church member) show others. And the "general public" then equtes YOUR attitudes as representing the church.
The Church itself has endured many scandals - Should the Church be painted as a "House of Scandal"?
Church members have been convisted of child sexual abuse - Should there be a "Silver Groper" award?
Sad that GOOD PEOPLE have to read YOUR postings and feel the hatred you (supposedly a church member) show others. And the "general public" then equtes YOUR attitudes as representing the church.
Scouter from elsewhere | 3:41 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Fascinating. I come from a council outside of Utah. I can tell you I would be
thrilled if the LDS would pull out of Scouting because the LDS church rules
Scouting at the National level with an iron hand. Changes that would benefit
the organization tremendously are vetoed by the LDS church. As a result of
program and organizational catering to the LDS church, the appeal of Scouting
to non-LDS church members has substantially diminished. From the comments I am
reading, it seems to be a lose/lose.
George Fisher | 3:42 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Elder Dahlquist are your reading all of these? I hope you or someone else at
Church Headquarters is taking notes. Scouting is bloated and it is busted.
"Attitude" said it right! | 3:47 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I highly recommend anyone involved in Scouting (as well as those who are sitting
on the sidelines complaining) to read Brother Thane Packer's book ON MY
HONOR: A GUIDE TO SCOUTING IN THE CHURCH.
There will always be those who sit on the side and complain - Scouting is no different.
I think Scouting, if run as the BSA and the President have presented the program, is a great benefit for the members of the quorum. It acheives the goals of leadership development both in Scouting and in the Church.
But, like anything else, if you CHOOSE not to follow the recipe, do not be surprised is the results are not what you wanted. Make a cake without the flour, eggs and sugar - and what do you get? It is NOT a cake - so DON'T COMPLAIN that it does not taste like cake!
(There is a great Scoutmaster Minute about this point - Check it out!)
There will always be those who sit on the side and complain - Scouting is no different.
I think Scouting, if run as the BSA and the President have presented the program, is a great benefit for the members of the quorum. It acheives the goals of leadership development both in Scouting and in the Church.
But, like anything else, if you CHOOSE not to follow the recipe, do not be surprised is the results are not what you wanted. Make a cake without the flour, eggs and sugar - and what do you get? It is NOT a cake - so DON'T COMPLAIN that it does not taste like cake!
(There is a great Scoutmaster Minute about this point - Check it out!)
Inside View | 3:48 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I have attended many scout functions with my son and have served in
LDS-sponsored units in scouting. The first thing I learned was to distance our
program from the BSA. The BSA-sponsored camps are usually poorly run and always
corny. The Jamboral in Fillmore, UT was an epic disaster (not enough water and
far too many boys for the available activities). I have personally seen more
than one "professional scouter," those earning 50K+ of Friends of
Scouting money each year, lose total control of a group of boys. They seldom
exhibit the personality or skills for a professional life in scouting. We found
success by reinventing the program on our own to make it palatable to our boys.
We avoid their camps and their workshops; it is easier to just go to a state or
national park. Our kids still progressed just fine in advancements. But what
21st-century teenager wants to run around in paramilitary gear pretending that
it is still 1950, that there is a frontier to be tamed, and that racist
stereotypes about Indians still pertain in American life? By the way, our
ward's FOS assessment is more than the entire YM budget.
Anonymous | 3:52 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
My contributions to scouting each year as an Asst. SM and Deacons Quorum Advisor
are in excess of a thousand dollars. The boys and I are going to start building
us a composite/wooden 15' Bruce Devlin designed boat. We have the plans and
will have it done before summer camp. I will continue doing what I do because I
believe in boys, but no more funds will be going to FOS.
Internal Memo | 3:54 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Perhaps Elder Dahlquist also needs to distribute the memo mentioned earlier -
The scouts in troops under the guidance of called Scoutmasters account for more
than 50% of the death and serious injuries nationwide, while less than 20% of
the total BSA membership is LDS.
Mr Fisher - Who is bloated & busted? Is it the church member entrusted with the health, safety and development of our sons who is putting the boys at risk?
Complain about the money - In my predominantly LDS district the non-LDS families contribute more than 250% more, per registered boy, than the LDS families do. It is the non-LDS family that financially supports the program for the LDS boys.
Our district volunteers (LDS & not) spend twice as much "problem solving" time with LDS leaders - And the professional does even more than that.
I know part of issue is there are SO MANY TASKS for the Ward to manage, and simply not enough members. That carries into Scuting, too - you cannot always call the best to be the Scouting leader - BUT WHY does the church NOT CALL THE BEST to prepare the yong men for mission (eg. Scouting!)
Mr Fisher - Who is bloated & busted? Is it the church member entrusted with the health, safety and development of our sons who is putting the boys at risk?
Complain about the money - In my predominantly LDS district the non-LDS families contribute more than 250% more, per registered boy, than the LDS families do. It is the non-LDS family that financially supports the program for the LDS boys.
Our district volunteers (LDS & not) spend twice as much "problem solving" time with LDS leaders - And the professional does even more than that.
I know part of issue is there are SO MANY TASKS for the Ward to manage, and simply not enough members. That carries into Scuting, too - you cannot always call the best to be the Scouting leader - BUT WHY does the church NOT CALL THE BEST to prepare the yong men for mission (eg. Scouting!)
Searcher | 3:56 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
It is too bad that some of the time this man spends earning all his money
isn't spent teaching scouts how not to get lost in the woods. The training
of the "scout masters" seems to be sorely lacking as compared to other
states, such as California.
Mother of 2 Eagle Scouts | 4:00 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Holy Cow! Or is it Holy CASH Cow!? The Scouting program is an American
institution that has contributed for decades to the development of fine young
men. I know, because I raised 3 Boy Scouts. But this article has proven to be an
alarum to the citizens of the State of Utah. Thanks for sharing the
over-inflated income of one executive, but I care too about the young men in
Utah to allow this to disuade my measly $25/yr donation. I am grateful that I
can easily afford to made such a donation -- even knowing that $20 of it goes in
Moore's pocket. The other $5 is the part I and the Boy Scouts really value.
To George Fisher | 4:00 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
President (not Elder) Dahlquist was on the selection committee that hired Paul
Moore. He saw the value of what Paul Moore could bring to the scouting
organization. Any program that is important and has value deserves to be
funded. President Dahlquist sees the value of this program. He has been called
and set apart by a prophet of God. Shouldn�t that be good
enough for us a s faithful church members? If you are that upset about
improving scouting for the better maybe you should pray to gain a testimony of
the principle?
Ward YM President | 4:02 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
My opinion... Take scouting out of my ward programs and there will be a lot
happier young men, parents and leaders. Scouting is such a divisive issue that
it should not remain a mandatory part of the YM program. It causes too much
contention, and in my opinion, the Duty to God program will better prepare YM
for serving in the Church, in their communities and serving others without the
incredible expense to the families and church. I support my scout leaders 100%,
but when it comes time for service, fund-raising, etc., it's always the
same leaders (accepted callings) and the same few YM who are interested or
forced parentally. To me, it sets many young men up for a feeling of failure if
the Eagle is not achieved. I support it but don't push it. But
that's just me.
Ernst | 4:03 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
What a way to destroy a family -- having the father be a professional scouter,
spending 60-80 hours a week at his job. If this job requires so much time, why
not split it up into 2 or 3 position, and split the wage accordingly.
If these high-paid scouting professionals do so much, they sure don't let anybody know about it. It would be reassuring to know they they are actually worth what they are being paid. And for that matter, how do you even determine that?
If these high-paid scouting professionals do so much, they sure don't let anybody know about it. It would be reassuring to know they they are actually worth what they are being paid. And for that matter, how do you even determine that?
I'ts really too bad | 4:07 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Sadly, I'm not too surprised by how much they are overpaid. I was in cub
scouting for quite a few years and loved helping the boys achieve. I have
always thought that the costs for supplies, awards, etc were outrageous,
especially for a "non-profit" group. For the BSA to charge $20+/$35+
for youth & leader shirts, $6.50 for handbooks, and the list goes on. When
I first started in cubscouts the cost to go to Camp Kiesel was only $10, it
subsequently went up almost yearly until now it's $18!! When asking why
the increase every year, the reason given was that they needed to do
improvements at the respective camps. Camp Kiesel has still not been upgraded!
The bathrooms, camp store, etc are all in various states of disrepair. When I
talked with another leader who had started in scouts 25+ years ago, they were
also appalled at the way the costs have gotten out of hand. For years after
they first started,Camp Kiesel cost $5 per person AND included a hot lunch. Now
the costs have skyrocketed and you have to bring your own cold lunch. I think
the IRS should be looking at revoking their tax-exempt status.
Casual Observer | 4:08 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
May one say that it�s not the salaries at issue,
it�s the fact that Church members feel forced to contribute
to those salaries out of a sense of obedience and devotion to the cause?
What I find irritating is the pressure applied to local congregations by the Scouting organization to meet the goal set for them by the Scouts themselves. Failure to meet that goal results is a great deal of additional pressure to measure up.
What I find irritating is the pressure applied to local congregations by the Scouting organization to meet the goal set for them by the Scouts themselves. Failure to meet that goal results is a great deal of additional pressure to measure up.
Response to Casting Stones | 4:17 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Mr. Casting Stones alleges to be a "professional scouter" but has
serious issues with LDS Scouts and their leaders. It appears that his prejudice
against LDS scouters outweighs his interest in helping the boys.
The LDS church is scouting's biggest fan!
LDS money goes to help these sp called BSA "professionals?"
This summer I got the same feeling of prejudice at a BSA camp in Nebraska. I guess my impression is now confirmed. Sad!
The LDS church is scouting's biggest fan!
LDS money goes to help these sp called BSA "professionals?"
This summer I got the same feeling of prejudice at a BSA camp in Nebraska. I guess my impression is now confirmed. Sad!
Dave Brerrington | 4:19 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Do scout executive ever volunteer any of their time to scouting? Do they
contribute to FOS? Are they collecting food for Scouting for food or are they
making money everytime they are in (overpriced) uniforms?
Shame! | 4:22 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
This year I spear-headed the FOS drive. Our ward boundaries have numerous
low-income apartments, all of which were visited for donations. How horrible I
now feel for rounding-up their money to support salaries of such magnitude! If
this Moore guy would cut his salary in half, it would fund the costs and camp
fees of hundreds of scouts.
To Dave Brerrington | 4:43 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
As a professional scouter, yes we do contribute generously to FOS. Yes we are
out there collecting at scouting for food. And, we do often serve in unit level
positions in scouting. We even pay for our own uniforms.
David Potter | 4:55 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Now that the 'SECRET' salaries are out ... it is time to
'clean' house in the scouting program. The local council PR
representative, Kay Godfrey (455-0758) said he stands behind everything our
council leader said and for his enormous salary.
The justification given for the salaries is that "its not our fault", the Scout Executive Board okayed these salaries. Well ... then it is time to FIRE this board and put men and women on the board that understand what a fair salary should be!
For our leader to justify his salary because he carries many hats including "carrying out the garbage" and that if we don't pay him that he will go to another state .... this is arrogant and outrageous.
The whole scouting SALARY program needs to be scrapped but this will only be done if everyone lets the Executive Board know their feelings.
I have been involved in scouting for over 7 years. I sacrificed my holidays to help the boys setup flags so they could earn money ... but to hear that the main leader received a million dollars is hard to sacrifice anymore.
Please contact the Scout Executive board today!!
The justification given for the salaries is that "its not our fault", the Scout Executive Board okayed these salaries. Well ... then it is time to FIRE this board and put men and women on the board that understand what a fair salary should be!
For our leader to justify his salary because he carries many hats including "carrying out the garbage" and that if we don't pay him that he will go to another state .... this is arrogant and outrageous.
The whole scouting SALARY program needs to be scrapped but this will only be done if everyone lets the Executive Board know their feelings.
I have been involved in scouting for over 7 years. I sacrificed my holidays to help the boys setup flags so they could earn money ... but to hear that the main leader received a million dollars is hard to sacrifice anymore.
Please contact the Scout Executive board today!!
Floopster | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve, and all other GA's are paid
and paid well. Yet, we as members of the church donate many hours each week as
well as 10% of our income.
If you ask me, giving $50 to $100 every year towards Friends of Scouting will help a decent, private organization continue to do good for us, for our children, for our communities and for our country.
And this is coming from someone who hated Scouting!
If you ask me, giving $50 to $100 every year towards Friends of Scouting will help a decent, private organization continue to do good for us, for our children, for our communities and for our country.
And this is coming from someone who hated Scouting!
Rob Perry | 6:11 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I'm sorry more of you did not know Scout leaders like John Oldham, Jay
Pfeiffer, Fred Biggers, Russ Barr and Larry Boice. I recall with gratitude and
fondness the many lessons they taught me and my class mates. Any amount of FOS
contributions are a pittance and would hardly make an interest payment on the
debt I owe these decent and dedicated men.
I suppose there will be some shifting in focus after this article. Perhaps there should be. It is good for any public non-profit organization to be transparent and be examined in the light of day. Afterwards there will be those who will use the past as an opportunity and excuse to not donate. But those who recognize the true value of a local Scounting program will do as they have always done; put a little extra in the FOS envelope and still contribute to the local Scout Troop in multiple ways.
My hat is off to all of those grat souls... but espcially to John, Jay, Fred, Russ and Larry. Also to Mary, Sister P., Penny, Elva and Susan. God bless us all to see clearly, speak softly, express gratitude and give generously. Shalom, rhp
I suppose there will be some shifting in focus after this article. Perhaps there should be. It is good for any public non-profit organization to be transparent and be examined in the light of day. Afterwards there will be those who will use the past as an opportunity and excuse to not donate. But those who recognize the true value of a local Scounting program will do as they have always done; put a little extra in the FOS envelope and still contribute to the local Scout Troop in multiple ways.
My hat is off to all of those grat souls... but espcially to John, Jay, Fred, Russ and Larry. Also to Mary, Sister P., Penny, Elva and Susan. God bless us all to see clearly, speak softly, express gratitude and give generously. Shalom, rhp
Anonymous | 6:12 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I'm not sure that all those complaining realize that the COR in each ward,
usually a member of the Bishopric, has a vote on their Council Board and if they
don't like the budget, including the salaries, they can vote against it.
Having served in Council and District positions as well as currently serving as
a COR I rarely see any LDS CORs attending these once a year meetings where they
would have an opportunity to have input. Just like politics, it's easy to
whine and complain, but when it comes to actually getting involved to make a
difference most are just happy complaining.
By the way President Thomas S. Monson is the ranking member of the National Board that also approves the National Budget and the Chief Scout's salary. Maybe those whiners should think again the next time they are asked to sustain him. It's mind boggling to me that so many are willing to badmouth a program of the Church endorsed and supported by living Prophets.
By the way President Thomas S. Monson is the ranking member of the National Board that also approves the National Budget and the Chief Scout's salary. Maybe those whiners should think again the next time they are asked to sustain him. It's mind boggling to me that so many are willing to badmouth a program of the Church endorsed and supported by living Prophets.
Anonymous | 6:27 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Floopster | 5:19 p.m. is absolutely correct.
It seems inconsistent for many of these comments to be condemning these Scout executives when Church leaders are in a similar situation.
It seems inconsistent for many of these comments to be condemning these Scout executives when Church leaders are in a similar situation.
SE Idaho | 6:38 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Floopster -- my understanding is that GAs get in the $80s.
Trying to compare these salaries to the that of the church's is disingenuous.
Are you another professional scouter family member?
Trying to compare these salaries to the that of the church's is disingenuous.
Are you another professional scouter family member?
Scouter B | 6:39 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Beginning professional scouters, as mentioned in the article, are paid about the
same as teachers. And I believe teachers are underpaid for what they do.
People who work for not-for-profit organizations pay the same for groceries, clothes and gas as everyone else. Pay should be comparable.
Salaries are set by the local council executive board, as are the budgets. Get a copy of your council's budget to see how the funds are spent, and communicate with your board representative about your concerns.
People who work for not-for-profit organizations pay the same for groceries, clothes and gas as everyone else. Pay should be comparable.
Salaries are set by the local council executive board, as are the budgets. Get a copy of your council's budget to see how the funds are spent, and communicate with your board representative about your concerns.
Jeff | 6:45 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Comparison with 4-H is not good since most 4-H agents are supported by tax
dollars. In fact some counties assess a separate millage for extension, of which
4-H is a part. Agents are also backed by the land grant university.
Scouting rarely files for government grants with all of the paperwork and BS required of federal grants.
With all of this said its amazing that scouts can support executives where taxpayers can support similar positions with tax money. Competition becomes the driving factor.
As an eagle scout and an assistant district commissioner, I support the district and council executive salary structure.
Scouting rarely files for government grants with all of the paperwork and BS required of federal grants.
With all of this said its amazing that scouts can support executives where taxpayers can support similar positions with tax money. Competition becomes the driving factor.
As an eagle scout and an assistant district commissioner, I support the district and council executive salary structure.
Free Choice | 6:58 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Wow! Comparing our Church leaders to scout executives. Now that is just plain
crazy. That is the trouble with many scout supporters. They think the BSA is
part of the Gospel, and it most certainly is NOT. Pay all you want to your
beloved BSA, and FOS, but don't force me to do so also. Programs of the
Church come and go, and I hope the time will soon come for the scouting program
to go.
BS of A | 7:07 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Making more than the Vice President of the United States.
Sorta like a "five pound bag of Manure"...
No matter how you shake it, it's still five pounds of manure.
Sorta like a "five pound bag of Manure"...
No matter how you shake it, it's still five pounds of manure.
Who decides salaries? | 7:11 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The voting membership of a Boy Scout Council, including SLC, is composed of
"Chartered Organization Representatives", of which each ward or Stake
has at least one. If these people actually go to meetings and vote, they decide
the direction and budget and everything else about the local Council, including
the membership of the Executive Committee and other groups that make salary
recommendations.
If they don't go or vote, they are de facto agreeing to the salaries, budgets and audits. I think a big problem in corporate America [profit or non-profit] is the lack of true accountability by the "Board Members". If the only people who come to vote are the boss's friends and cohorts, then no one is holding them accountable.
If they don't go or vote, they are de facto agreeing to the salaries, budgets and audits. I think a big problem in corporate America [profit or non-profit] is the lack of true accountability by the "Board Members". If the only people who come to vote are the boss's friends and cohorts, then no one is holding them accountable.
Bonnie | 7:20 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I think that people who don't give to FOS are plain CHEAP. They are
probably the same people who don't tip their servers at restraunts, the
pizza guy or when they get their hair cut. Any charity usually has someone
working behind the scences to help strengthen the organization. They should be
compensated for their time and effort. Why is the BSA any different? The point
of donating money to a worthy cause is not to be so concerned about
"what's in it for me!" but the benefit of others it can help.
The GSLC manages millions of dollars of assets each year. The compensation that
employees receive is not that much of a percentage. I'm glad that we have
such qualified inviduals managing the in and out of our money and I know that it
is going to a good cause.
I also know for a fact that every professional DE or SDE contributes at least $250 to FOS each years and many have donated $1000.00 to local endowment funds. Higher executives give much more. Like I said earlier. People who don't give money to charity are just covetous and selfish
I also know for a fact that every professional DE or SDE contributes at least $250 to FOS each years and many have donated $1000.00 to local endowment funds. Higher executives give much more. Like I said earlier. People who don't give money to charity are just covetous and selfish
Former DE | 7:37 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
BS of A said: "Making more than the Vice President of the United States.
Sorta like a "five pound bag of Manure"...
No matter how you shake it, it's still five pounds of manure."
BS of A, You should look at the whole picture and not just the slanted report from the deseret news.
The salary comparison chart shared by the Deseret News is disingenuous. The article shared the total compensation package of scout executives including salary and benefits. Whereas the article only shared the salary of the President and other elected officials. If you included all of their benefits including lifetime pension, food, travel, security, and other items it would be in the millions.
Sorta like a "five pound bag of Manure"...
No matter how you shake it, it's still five pounds of manure."
BS of A, You should look at the whole picture and not just the slanted report from the deseret news.
The salary comparison chart shared by the Deseret News is disingenuous. The article shared the total compensation package of scout executives including salary and benefits. Whereas the article only shared the salary of the President and other elected officials. If you included all of their benefits including lifetime pension, food, travel, security, and other items it would be in the millions.
RE: Flopster 5:19 | 7:42 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Huh???
You know how much (or how little) the GA's make?
Guaranteed, you would probably be surprised how little these men are compensated in this life.
They all take a cut in pay to work for the church.
Get a clue before you post...
You know how much (or how little) the GA's make?
Guaranteed, you would probably be surprised how little these men are compensated in this life.
They all take a cut in pay to work for the church.
Get a clue before you post...
Bonnie didn't read the article | 7:49 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Not wanting to support lavish lifestyles in the name of "the boys" is
why i will never donate again.
Unfortunately...they just cashed my check for this year. I am so disappointed to hear this.
I too have never heard of the "discount". NOBODY has ever offered me a discount and our ward exceeds the "requested" amount every year.
I do feel like a sheep. My bishop was asked to go to every house in our ward to ask for money for FOS. He did. People that had NO business giving...gave! And why? Because he asked them to. When the Bishop says give...people will always give.
Shame on the FOS executives who shamelessly took advantage of this ward relationship. My Bishop is sick to his stomach over this.
I'm going to print this article and mail it in with my next donation of $0
Unfortunately...they just cashed my check for this year. I am so disappointed to hear this.
I too have never heard of the "discount". NOBODY has ever offered me a discount and our ward exceeds the "requested" amount every year.
I do feel like a sheep. My bishop was asked to go to every house in our ward to ask for money for FOS. He did. People that had NO business giving...gave! And why? Because he asked them to. When the Bishop says give...people will always give.
Shame on the FOS executives who shamelessly took advantage of this ward relationship. My Bishop is sick to his stomach over this.
I'm going to print this article and mail it in with my next donation of $0
carol | 8:02 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I haven't donated to bsa for many many years. I asked years ago for a break
down as to how my money was spent and knew most of it went to overpaid
executives in plush office buildings. If it went to the hardworking local
leaders to pay for carpet cleaning, gas, or valium (wink, wink) I wouldn't
have a problem with it. My boys didn't like scouts and they are all
returned missionaries with Temple recommends. Scouting was not the be all end
all people make it out to be. I hope the church ends its affliation with this
group that seems to have more than its fair share of pedophiles that prey on
trusting young boys and their naive parents.
Steve | 8:04 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The vast majority of church leaders who deal directly with young men
(Bishoprics, YM leaders, Stake Presidencies and others) devote a great deal of
time to their callings and take seriously their responsibilities to the youth of
the Church. It is very dis-heartening to see them have to deal with the
bureaucracy and never-ending paperwork and training of the BSA when a more
Gospel-oriented program would be of much greater help to our young men. Most
young men don't have much enthusiasm for scouting. Those who do could
still join a local troop outside of the Church. Most people I have seen who
work within the scouting program see it more as a chore rather than a calling to
be magnified.
Staff deserves every penny. | 8:36 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
In general, the professional Scouters I've worked with over many years as a
volunteer have been overworked and underpayed.
They work ridiculous hours - including most weekends and evenings - and are basically on call 24/7, especially when at camp spending their summers away from family.
As for Mr. Moore, seems to me his salary is right on considering the scope and importance of his work.
They work ridiculous hours - including most weekends and evenings - and are basically on call 24/7, especially when at camp spending their summers away from family.
As for Mr. Moore, seems to me his salary is right on considering the scope and importance of his work.
Dell | 8:43 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
The scout leaders of my teen years were some of the finest men I have known. I
still visit them. One, a Harvard trained Ph.D. chemist took my friends and me
for two weeks into the High Uintas every year. Other leaders were professors,
doctors and artists.
The stories of these leaders' experiences in war and in life told under a canopy of summer stars as we sat around a dying fire were far more memorable and informative than anything in a merit badge book. These brilliant men condescended to baby sit us teeny-bopping brats at their own expense. By so doing they rendered added depth to our lives. They were volunteers. I do not recall them wearing uniforms. I recall nothing from the corporate world of Scouting. What I do remember is their care, commitment, and devotion to duty. On their honor they did their best to serve God and to help others. I was blessed to be one of those "others." Their service had nothing to do with any office, administration, or bureaucracy it was an extension of their religious devotion. Is that perhaps what Robert Baden-Powell had in mind when he started the Boy Scouts?
The stories of these leaders' experiences in war and in life told under a canopy of summer stars as we sat around a dying fire were far more memorable and informative than anything in a merit badge book. These brilliant men condescended to baby sit us teeny-bopping brats at their own expense. By so doing they rendered added depth to our lives. They were volunteers. I do not recall them wearing uniforms. I recall nothing from the corporate world of Scouting. What I do remember is their care, commitment, and devotion to duty. On their honor they did their best to serve God and to help others. I was blessed to be one of those "others." Their service had nothing to do with any office, administration, or bureaucracy it was an extension of their religious devotion. Is that perhaps what Robert Baden-Powell had in mind when he started the Boy Scouts?
Jamie | 8:44 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I find all of the negativity towards the Scouting program sad. I am a
scoutmaster and love the program.
When run correctly, Scouting blesses the lives of youth. In this day and age, video games, ipods, televisions and cell phones rule the lives of our youth. We are raising a generation of youth that have little to no social skills, are doped up on prescription drugs because we think they have problems, have no leadership skills, learning skills, problem solving skills, don't have many positive role models and don't have many positive experiences.
What these boys need is a group to belong to that will teach them how to be men, how to be leaders, how to be good citizens, how to be friends, how to solve problems, and most importantly, self-worth through accomplishment.
These youth need positive role models. They don't get that from the socially backward lives they are living. They don't get that from gangs. A well run Scouting program can offer these things to youth.
The key is a "well run" scouting program staffed with leaders who are teaching the boys to lead and then allowing them to lead, and who want to be there.
When run correctly, Scouting blesses the lives of youth. In this day and age, video games, ipods, televisions and cell phones rule the lives of our youth. We are raising a generation of youth that have little to no social skills, are doped up on prescription drugs because we think they have problems, have no leadership skills, learning skills, problem solving skills, don't have many positive role models and don't have many positive experiences.
What these boys need is a group to belong to that will teach them how to be men, how to be leaders, how to be good citizens, how to be friends, how to solve problems, and most importantly, self-worth through accomplishment.
These youth need positive role models. They don't get that from the socially backward lives they are living. They don't get that from gangs. A well run Scouting program can offer these things to youth.
The key is a "well run" scouting program staffed with leaders who are teaching the boys to lead and then allowing them to lead, and who want to be there.
Robert | 9:26 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I am an eagle scout, I have been a scoutmaster, a young men's president
twice and the Bishop of two different LDS wards. I love the principles of the
scouting program. There is a correlation between a strong cub program and a
strong scouting program and a correlation between becoming an eagle scout and
serving a mission. Two of my son's are Eagles and my third is on his
way.
But here is the problem WE have. We are living a lie. The prophet told us not to set a quota for Friends of Scouting more than a dozen years ago. Yet our scout leaders continue to push for more and more money. If my stake president and bishop ask me to I will continue to donate to the Friends of Scouting, because I sustain them and intend to keep my word. It is just sad that the men who dress like boys seem to find more value in money then they do in being trustworthy.
But here is the problem WE have. We are living a lie. The prophet told us not to set a quota for Friends of Scouting more than a dozen years ago. Yet our scout leaders continue to push for more and more money. If my stake president and bishop ask me to I will continue to donate to the Friends of Scouting, because I sustain them and intend to keep my word. It is just sad that the men who dress like boys seem to find more value in money then they do in being trustworthy.
To Bonnie: | 9:44 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Bonnie, I tip a good waiter, waitress, hairdresser and pizza delivery guy quite
lavishly. I appreciate good service and I try to compensate them as best as I
can. That is PRECISELY why I never donate to FOS.
Crowsnest | 9:53 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
From the crow's nest perspective- My son was called to assist in the
scouting program in his ward. He was asked if he was and Eagle Scout. No came
the reply. Do you regret it?, he was asked No he replied. Please don't
tell the boys was the response. This non- eagle is a returned missionary
practicing law and raising a righteous and loyal family. I'm proud to have
him sit with me in the Crow's Nest...
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I do believe however that in an organization like the LDS church we have the resources to expand our Duty to God program with several different fields of emphasis. We could interest a broader spectrum of young men and women, at a much better use of funds. Apply the amount of money we raise from FOS, registration fees, purchase of badges and what we collect from families to go to BSA camps now, and imagine what we could do with that amount of funding combined with so many who are willing to volunteer to help youth.
As for camps, what a wonderful mission call that could be. I believe that many within the church would even consider donating land for the camps knowing there were not millions used up in overhead. This would bless the lives of both our young men and young women.