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Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid
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Non-Utah Scouting | 9:27 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I have been a very active volunteer Scouter for over two decades in Southern
California. I strive to take it seriously and do it right. I completed Woodbadge
training and found much of it to be a great experience.
But most scouting in the LDS Church is a joke, and everybody knows it. Because the leaders are "called," few of them have a real interest. They come in and bide their time until they can get released. They don't bother with uniforms 90% of the time. They don't take it seriously. They don't follow the rules or stick with the program.
And because the Church has strictly aligned it with the priesthood quorums, more often than not, the Scouting troops are not the proper size. Without the right numbers, you cannot do the program right.
When it is done right, it is well worth the price for a quality executive to ensure it is done right. When not done right, it is a waste of time.
I love Scouting, and admire Baden Powell as a true visionary leader. It is a tragedy that the Church's "support" for Scouting has been more of a curse than a blessing.
But most scouting in the LDS Church is a joke, and everybody knows it. Because the leaders are "called," few of them have a real interest. They come in and bide their time until they can get released. They don't bother with uniforms 90% of the time. They don't take it seriously. They don't follow the rules or stick with the program.
And because the Church has strictly aligned it with the priesthood quorums, more often than not, the Scouting troops are not the proper size. Without the right numbers, you cannot do the program right.
When it is done right, it is well worth the price for a quality executive to ensure it is done right. When not done right, it is a waste of time.
I love Scouting, and admire Baden Powell as a true visionary leader. It is a tragedy that the Church's "support" for Scouting has been more of a curse than a blessing.
Oh come On! | 9:27 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Many of us are jumping to conclusions. The most important thing to remember is
that scouting is fundamentally good. We should be careful to avoid anything
that detracts from this. It was an important part of growing up for me and I
see it helping many of the kids in my ward today. Keep in mind that these
executives devote a great deal of time, energy, and talent. Limiting one's
support to scouting based on this article will only serve to fill their shoes
with people who are not as talented, dedicated, and capable. These leaders
really have something to offer--and that is why they are paid what they are
paid. They are not merely scoutmasters, of which I am afraid most of us are
jumping to such a comparison. Their position is not a church calling that many
consider baby-sitting. It is easy to overlook the logistics behind such a
massive organization--insurance, utilities, property, budgeting, education. The
list goes on and on. Church aside, nowadays I feel we would be hard pressed to
find any other national organization with such a strong committment to strong
moral values, civic education, and self mastery as the Boys Scouts of America.
Comments continue below
S.E. Idaho | 9:27 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Mr. Moore makes more than 90% of doctors, 90% of lawyers and 90% of private
sector CEOS. For running a voluntary, not-for-profit organization.
Folks, can't be defended.
Folks, can't be defended.
Dave B. | 9:30 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I agree there are tensions between the BSA and the LDS Church regarding
Scouting. The Church really doesn't do the Scouting program right.
I think the Church should separate itself from Scouting... and I will continue with Scouting.
I think the Church should separate itself from Scouting... and I will continue with Scouting.
Scouting is Fun | 9:34 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Most folks don't know how BSA is run. That $50 that you pay your troop
doesn't go to the Council. About $10 goes to National and the rest stays
with the troop. Councils have to raise every single penny that they need. Much
of that comes from FOS. What does FOS buy? It pays the salaries of the
professionals, it pays for the camps, it pays for the staff that keeps the
records.
Who decided on the salary for the SE? Volunteers did. The council board and the charter organizations signed off on it.
As for services, not all services are free. Fire and police are county services but they aren't free. The firemen and policemen are paid, and at the upper ranks paid rather well.
What does a council provide? It costs about $35 or $40 per Scout to run a Council. That pays for camps and other facilities, publications, the District executives, record keeping.
Also, compared to a college coach, he isn't making squat and he's doing something good for society in general.
Who decided on the salary for the SE? Volunteers did. The council board and the charter organizations signed off on it.
As for services, not all services are free. Fire and police are county services but they aren't free. The firemen and policemen are paid, and at the upper ranks paid rather well.
What does a council provide? It costs about $35 or $40 per Scout to run a Council. That pays for camps and other facilities, publications, the District executives, record keeping.
Also, compared to a college coach, he isn't making squat and he's doing something good for society in general.
Exploitation? | 9:37 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Everybody is over-reacting.
The BSA has been using volunteers for decades so that they can keep costs down. Volunteers keep the costs down in many organizations.
For instance, do you know how much Mitt Romney made to be the head of SLOC? Much more than Moore! But he made the Winter Olympics financially successful by using volunteers!
Did any of you volunteers complain that you were being exploited then? I doubt it.
And the LDS Church uses volunteers more extensively than probably any other charitable organization in the country! But you don't hear people complaining about being exploited by the Church leaders.
A little reason can go a long way in understanding why executives in non-profit organizations are so well-compensated.
The BSA has been using volunteers for decades so that they can keep costs down. Volunteers keep the costs down in many organizations.
For instance, do you know how much Mitt Romney made to be the head of SLOC? Much more than Moore! But he made the Winter Olympics financially successful by using volunteers!
Did any of you volunteers complain that you were being exploited then? I doubt it.
And the LDS Church uses volunteers more extensively than probably any other charitable organization in the country! But you don't hear people complaining about being exploited by the Church leaders.
A little reason can go a long way in understanding why executives in non-profit organizations are so well-compensated.
THOU SHALT NOT COVET | 9:37 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Wow, you all are a bunch of whiners up there in Utah,for shame! Look at the
anger and indignation that the adversary has let fester in your hearts. You
should be so grateful for what you have and what scouting has done for many of
you.
I guess you have nothing else better to focus your attention on and that all is well in Zion. Stop complaining about a "dated" scouting program and find ways to reach your youth through the everlasting principles of scouting. The scouting program is MORE RELEVANT TODAY THAN EVER shame on you prideful petty fools who look to others and compare what they have with what you don't, when will it every me little enough $50K? Quit your whining and get to work. We have the precious souls of YM on the line and we can't afford you barnacles on the ship of progress.
Regards from a saddened YM pres in Florida.
I guess you have nothing else better to focus your attention on and that all is well in Zion. Stop complaining about a "dated" scouting program and find ways to reach your youth through the everlasting principles of scouting. The scouting program is MORE RELEVANT TODAY THAN EVER shame on you prideful petty fools who look to others and compare what they have with what you don't, when will it every me little enough $50K? Quit your whining and get to work. We have the precious souls of YM on the line and we can't afford you barnacles on the ship of progress.
Regards from a saddened YM pres in Florida.
Football vs. Scouting? | 9:43 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Football provides much more tangible leadership development than scouting.
I have no problem paying for BYU tickets because I get something out of it PLUS it helps develop leadership skills in the players!
Bronco deserves his salary because he fills the stadium and brings in many millions of dollars.
Paul Moore is not as effective. What real value is the Scouting program providing to the local communities?
Perhaps the local Councils need new leadership?
I have no problem paying for BYU tickets because I get something out of it PLUS it helps develop leadership skills in the players!
Bronco deserves his salary because he fills the stadium and brings in many millions of dollars.
Paul Moore is not as effective. What real value is the Scouting program providing to the local communities?
Perhaps the local Councils need new leadership?
Scouting Shmouting | 9:45 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
That pay to those scouting officials is absolutely vulgar. I will never give
them another dime. All these years I thought everything was voluntary up to the
top officials receiving minimal compensation for their time. To think our
contributions go into the vast and deep pockets of the officials first for such
gross overpayment is absurd. The church just needs to run it voluntarily for
it's boys and cut off those arrogant and thieving officials. They should
be ashamed.
Scott the Scout | 9:55 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Scouts is a good program. Tied to the LDS church causes a couple problems but I
have worked through them. However I would prefer not to have anything to do with
Scouts. Don't confuse that with YM. The church has a better program and
focus. It also cost less money and I have to spend less time on training. There
is no woodchip badge for learning, knowing, and teaching gospel principles.
Without compulsary means we can do more for our YM and pay a lot less as well
I am done | 10:01 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
What a sick waste. Just think of all the good that could be done with the
resources wards put into scouting if it were Duty to God focused. I long for
the day that getting a Duty to God award is the expectation and not an Eagle
Scout award.
Long Hours | 10:02 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
As a physician I work 70-80 hours a week. I am sure that I make less than
Bronco Mendenhall and fairly confident that I work longer hours than he does.
This notwithstanding, I will continue to pay my tithing, recognizing that Bronco
does a good job. I'd still pay tithing if he did a terrible job--and
I've never attended BYU. In doing so, however, I recognize that I am
supporting something important (the Church). A competitive salary is important
to get good people. There is no use in throwing the baby out with the
bathwater. I will continue to support scouting, go on campouts, and be a merit
badge counselor. My time is very precious, but I recognize the bottom
line--that Scouting helps young men who embrace it.
KWWWWT | 10:04 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I am amazed at how many people have commented on this article with vows not to
contribute to the Friends of Scouting anymore. To think that we could have a
volunteer to lead the charge in this area is rather unrealistic. I would bet
that if you were to do a survey and determine what other groups are paying their
leaders in similar positions, we would find that the scouts are very lucky to
get the leadership so cheap. Come on people. My boys have been very fortunate
to have had the scouting experience. To think that we can have this all for
nothing is very unrealistic. When you look at the size of the group these
leaders are asked to look over in the Utah area, it is amazing. The
scoutmasters that have complained in this column. I'll bet, only have had
at most 30 boys. To oversee the thousands that the councils have to look over,
is mind boggling. I suggest we be less critical of the boy scouts and count our
blessings. Critize me if you want, I will always be greatful for the BSA.
S.E. Idaho | 10:03 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
"For instance, do you know how much Mitt Romney made to be the head of
SLOC? Much more than Moore!"
Not true. Romney didn't take a salary for running the Olympics. He considered it public service.
Interesting parallel.
Not true. Romney didn't take a salary for running the Olympics. He considered it public service.
Interesting parallel.
Football fan | 10:07 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Leave out Bronco. What did he do to you. His success determined his salary. My
ward hasn't had a successful scouting program in years. Our last Eagle
Scout was 5 years ago and he can't swim. But BSA salaries have gone up. Is
Moores salary tied to success or enrollement?
Scoutmaster | 10:07 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I have read all (whew!) of the comments both for and against FOS. These seem
like natural logic to me:
* Anyone claiming that he is doing Scouting "for the boys" would never accept that much money because he is taking it away from them.
* I have, in 15 years of scouting, never had one bit of help from a professional scouter.
* The Duty to God program is a fabulous program that better fits the needs of the boys today.
I am sure the Professional scouters are very hard working, but I question their motivation when they take the money right out of the hands of the boys. Pay them a comfortable $75,000 and we'll see where their dedication lies.
* Anyone claiming that he is doing Scouting "for the boys" would never accept that much money because he is taking it away from them.
* I have, in 15 years of scouting, never had one bit of help from a professional scouter.
* The Duty to God program is a fabulous program that better fits the needs of the boys today.
I am sure the Professional scouters are very hard working, but I question their motivation when they take the money right out of the hands of the boys. Pay them a comfortable $75,000 and we'll see where their dedication lies.
Anonymous | 10:14 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Mitt Romney did not recieve a salary for running the olympics. He took what he
would have been paid and donated to the olympics. Before you drag somebodys name
into the financial mess that is scouting get your facts straight.
Professional scouter wife | 10:15 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
My husband is a professional scouter, and he used to work for the SLC council.
He transferred to another council for the experience. I've read a lot of
these comments. First I would be concerned if you're questioning the
judgment of church leadership and the prophet for their involvement in the BSA.
Some of you think you have it all figured out, just because you don't make
as much, and you gave some time to scouting. Most of you really don't know
how the program works, or where the monies go to. Its a worthy cause, and if
done right, WITH PARENTAL support, boys can learn to become men through the
experience of scouting. Its not about the knots ya know. Or I guess your
son's video games that you don't have to give your time to does that
just as well. I'm also wondering on what grounds were the writers wanting
to write an article that clearly leans toward a certain angle. Definately a
negative tilt. And they sure wanted to write a real long one. I'm
wondering what their adjenda was in all this. And if the money is that great,
then go apply.
No Need To Be So Bitter | 10:18 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Paul Moore is an outstanding individual. He has done phenomenal things in his
position and has made the SLC Council one of the premier councils in all of BSA.
I do believe that it would be honorable of Paul Moore to be willing to take a salary adjustment. Perhaps, he should make something equivalent to the salaries of other CEOs in the state of Utah who head similar sized organizations...oh wait, there aren't any (besides leadership of the LDS church).
I hope that people do not become so bitter that they cease to support this good cause. It would be sad to imagine that tens of thousands of boys in the state of Utah may now have a sub-standard scouting experience due poor funding and bitter leaders.
I hope that people can look past themselves and their own wallet and see the bigger picture...
I do believe that it would be honorable of Paul Moore to be willing to take a salary adjustment. Perhaps, he should make something equivalent to the salaries of other CEOs in the state of Utah who head similar sized organizations...oh wait, there aren't any (besides leadership of the LDS church).
I hope that people do not become so bitter that they cease to support this good cause. It would be sad to imagine that tens of thousands of boys in the state of Utah may now have a sub-standard scouting experience due poor funding and bitter leaders.
I hope that people can look past themselves and their own wallet and see the bigger picture...
Tithing and Football | 10:26 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
The athletic dept at BYU does not recieve a dime of your tithing. The coaches
pay is based on performance. Don't justify BSA salaries with your
ignorance. Your not doing either side a favor. Typical coaches work week 5 or 6
to 8 Monday through Saturday.
Please remember it is not what others do it is about what the Scouts are doing.
Please remember it is not what others do it is about what the Scouts are doing.
Den Mother | 10:38 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I work with the boy scouts every week. I love the boys, but it is a babysitting
job to say the least. I see no real character building being done. Please
Please Please: LDS Church DUMP THE BS of A!!! Let's put our hard work and
efforts into a program that is inspired and worthwhile. We have been successful
with the Young Women, (without lousy Friends of Scouting) let's do it with
the Young Men!
Most of the parents send their boys because they think it is part of being a "good" church member.
I think our precious, UNPAID time volunteering could be better spent teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, not PRETENDING we have a testimony of the Boy Scouts of America.
If people love the BSA, let them sign up for it in their communities, don't make volunteering a church calling.
Most of the parents send their boys because they think it is part of being a "good" church member.
I think our precious, UNPAID time volunteering could be better spent teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, not PRETENDING we have a testimony of the Boy Scouts of America.
If people love the BSA, let them sign up for it in their communities, don't make volunteering a church calling.
Duty to God program? | 10:47 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Where are you all getting this high speed "Duty to God" program is so
much better than scouting? I don't think you know anything about it.
You're just reading other posts and agreeing.
Google "Duty to God Award" to find the requirements. All there is is a checklist to initial off on. Sure, there is a service project required, but I think that idea is stolen from the scout handbook. If you want the Duty to God program to replace scouting, the church would need to put more time, resources, curriculum, and substance into it...It's just an award. There is nothing to it...At least scouting has structure. If you REPLACE it with scouting, you're just giving your kids another excuse to stay home, play video games, get fat, while MAYBE saying a few prayers and reading a few scriptures. Employers still ask your kids if they are eagle scouts or not. They even ask college graduates. They don't care about the duty to God award.
Instead of cry about scouts, audit them, fix their financial problems, hire an exec to work for half of Mr. Moore's pay and carry on with scouting.
Google "Duty to God Award" to find the requirements. All there is is a checklist to initial off on. Sure, there is a service project required, but I think that idea is stolen from the scout handbook. If you want the Duty to God program to replace scouting, the church would need to put more time, resources, curriculum, and substance into it...It's just an award. There is nothing to it...At least scouting has structure. If you REPLACE it with scouting, you're just giving your kids another excuse to stay home, play video games, get fat, while MAYBE saying a few prayers and reading a few scriptures. Employers still ask your kids if they are eagle scouts or not. They even ask college graduates. They don't care about the duty to God award.
Instead of cry about scouts, audit them, fix their financial problems, hire an exec to work for half of Mr. Moore's pay and carry on with scouting.
Cheap | 10:51 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Maybe other Utahns ought to go to work in the morning and ask for a pay raise.
Maybe he's not paid too much, as you're paid too little.
sustaining | 10:51 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
A few scouter's in this bog have tried to make us feel like bad members of
the church because we are so upset at the unbelievably amount Scout Executives
are paid. One writer on this blog said we raise our hand at General Conference
to sustain leaders, who make the choice to have scouting so we should pay FOS.
Indeed I did raise my hand but there is a difference in sustaining vs. obeying
if obeying goes beyond personal inspiration and knowledge. We are sustaining
great men who are men and they do make mistakes.
Just drop it already | 11:00 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Scouting, that is. Great job to deseret news for covering this. I hope and pray
that this will be a catalyst for BSA to finally be left behind. We could do much
better for our youth on our own with a christ-centered, testimony and values
building program.
Brother Juarez (Cerritos, CA) | 11:10 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Thank you for printing this article about the farce of the Friends of Scouting
Drive. I once asked my local leaders for an explanation of where the donations
go and none could be given.
As a counselor in the bishopric, I am disgusted by the greedy executives who feel they deserve the pay beacuse they work 50 to 60 hours a week. My scout leaders work feverishly helping boys earn merit badges and they do not make a dime.
It's time for the LDS church to leave the program and help our young men learn skills, gain knowledge, and build self-confidence by earning their Duty to God award.
They can find someone else to head the FOS next year. I'm DONE!!!!!
As a counselor in the bishopric, I am disgusted by the greedy executives who feel they deserve the pay beacuse they work 50 to 60 hours a week. My scout leaders work feverishly helping boys earn merit badges and they do not make a dime.
It's time for the LDS church to leave the program and help our young men learn skills, gain knowledge, and build self-confidence by earning their Duty to God award.
They can find someone else to head the FOS next year. I'm DONE!!!!!
U.S. Air Force, Eagle Scout | 11:11 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I am a proud eagle scout, and a member of the Air Force, the leadership I
learned that makes me what I am today, I credit to scouting. I know that there
has been alot of comments about how the boys hate scouting, many youth leaders
believe in the "Spalding 2000" mission where most of the boys just
show up on wed do scouting for 20 min, then play basketball, and hopefully they
will end up on a mission.
I loved the program, ended up going to direct scout camps, and when all is said and done, it is a great program that dosnt have the support from many local church leaders.
Now with that said, I am saddened that so much of the hard earned and donated money goes to CEO type scouters. I beleive that is BSA wants to stay afloat, they need to restructure. I would gladly dontate my time as a scout exec, and I know many others who would as well.
I loved the program, ended up going to direct scout camps, and when all is said and done, it is a great program that dosnt have the support from many local church leaders.
Now with that said, I am saddened that so much of the hard earned and donated money goes to CEO type scouters. I beleive that is BSA wants to stay afloat, they need to restructure. I would gladly dontate my time as a scout exec, and I know many others who would as well.
BS.......a | 11:16 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I'm surprised noone has mentioned the inequities between boys and girls
with regard to the subsidation of the Boy Scouts. Heck, FOS doesn't even
bother to mix in some thin mints or tagalongs for my trouble. One particular
scout camp experience stands out. Three years ago, we attended camp at camp
Evergreen at East Fork of the Bear. This happened to be the same year that
scouters there nearly burned down the entire Uinta National Forest. These Camp
counselors fell just shy of being abusive to our group of scouts. At one
particular merit badge tent, the counselor gave our scouts the "silent
treatment" for the entire hour of the merit badge. At the waterfront the
counselors picked fights and used vulgarity with our Scouts. They had taken on
what could only be descibed as a " Lord of the Flies" mentality.
Since then, I have been a firms believer in my church's divestiture from
the BSA. The Duty to God Award is much more valuable in the long term. I
don't mind people making as much money as the market can bear, Just
don't count on me to bear it from here on.
Andy | 11:18 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I'm not impressed by the article. Look at the title and the way the
argument is structured: this is not news reporting, it is a broadside shot at a
scouting organization that typically does not defend itself. The tone of the
article is filled with greed and slanted to appeal to self-interest. Lee, you
and Joe have done a great disservice to the community and to a very worthwhile
program. You do not offer any alternatives, and your tone is envious, if
anything. To the no-longer-friends-of-scouting group I would ask: when you gave
the service (and donations) to scouting, what were your motives? Many of you
complain now about the service you gave. Is that nullified now because of a
craftily-written news article? Do you regret the service now just because a news
reporter needed a grabber of an article? Why didn't Lee decide to take on
the thriving local drug business (meth, cocaine, heroin) instead? Because they
do defend themselves. Sorry Lee, no Pulitzer.
mbrown | 11:23 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Speaking as the mother of four Eagle Scouts, I am finished with FOS. When I
think of the sacrifices my boys' scout leaders made--all the things
enumerated in previous postings--let alone all they put up with at Scout Camp,
the winter hikes, the worry, taking care of sick, scared, injured, misbehaving
boys, etc. all without compensation, it makes me sick to realize that at the
same time the head honcho in the office was taking home $200 grand plus.
I do hope that the Church will be offering something better and more relevant(and truly "volunteer", like the rest of our callings) for my grandsons in a few years. While my boys had fun and learned a few things for a few years, we found ourselves competing with scouting activities for family time too often. As grown men with families of their own now, my sons appear to have no nostalgia for their scouting days, no interest in maintaining the memorabilia, etc. The LAST thing they wanted when they did get their Eagle Scout Award was for it to be covered in the local paper. If scouting was not cool then, it's not going to be better for my grandsons.
I do hope that the Church will be offering something better and more relevant(and truly "volunteer", like the rest of our callings) for my grandsons in a few years. While my boys had fun and learned a few things for a few years, we found ourselves competing with scouting activities for family time too often. As grown men with families of their own now, my sons appear to have no nostalgia for their scouting days, no interest in maintaining the memorabilia, etc. The LAST thing they wanted when they did get their Eagle Scout Award was for it to be covered in the local paper. If scouting was not cool then, it's not going to be better for my grandsons.
No more LDS/BSA | 11:28 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I have no problem with this gentleman's salary. He seems dedicated and
well-meaning. I only have a problem with my church subsidizing his pay with its
volunteer's donations.
Thoughts | 11:29 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
This year we did not give to Friends of Scouting. I am tired of able bodied kids
and adults in my neighborhood asking for a handout. Whether its scouting or
dance lessons or band or the local little league team, we've become a
society of beggars. I don't like the thought that if you can't afford
it, just go ask your neighbors to fund it. If you can't afford it,
don't do it, or work for the money. It really bothers me, that in my ward,
I've offered any young man $10-12 dollars an hour for simple yard help, and
no one is willing to do it. How about having scout leaders and parents encourage
their young men to work. That may help them more than knowing how to weave a
basket. As an LDS member, I'm bothered by ward members seeking donations
from one another. I have no ill feelings towards the scout leaders who have to
do it, as I know they hate it too. In my opinion, the church should divorce
themselves from boy scouts and focus on Duty to God. They should also start
putting as much effort into developing young women
thoughts continued | 11:34 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Additional thoughts continue: There are several young women in the ward willing
to teach piano lessons, tend, sell items they've made, to pay for their
activities. Maybe the YW could help the BS learn how to work.
By the way, any adult who applies for a job and puts Eagle Scout on their resume, looks like an idiot. I've reviewed 100's of applicants, and believe me, it makes you look silly. Why not just include a letter of recommendation from your mom while your at it.
By the way, any adult who applies for a job and puts Eagle Scout on their resume, looks like an idiot. I've reviewed 100's of applicants, and believe me, it makes you look silly. Why not just include a letter of recommendation from your mom while your at it.
ex-Scoutmaster | 11:36 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Her spelling errors aside, I think "professional scouters wife" is
upset that this little revelation is going to blow the whole little FOS scam out
of the water. If anything, the writer bent over backwards to tell the
Scouts' side of the story. It's just impossible to justify that high
of a salary coming from a CEO of an organization that subsists almost entirely
on donations. Not taxes, like a school superintendent. Not business profits, as
from a private enterprise. But donations from rank-and-file Scouters and church
members who've been duped into thinking they're giving to the boy in
uniform standing at their front door with his hand out, when really an
inordinate share of the donation is lining the pockets of the fat cats like this
lady's husband. Nobody is saying they don't work hard. We all do. We
just don't all have the benefit of being handsomely paid for doing it.
It's our church calling. And she has the nerve to question our sustaining
of church leaders! So what if the aticle doesn't sit too well with you. Boo
hoo! Try "doing it for the boys" instead.
Former District Executive | 11:40 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I used to be a District Executive in the Great Salt Lake Council. I know Paul
Moore. He is a good man and works hard. He is one of the most amazing people
that I know. I did not realize that he made that much but I know how much he
devotes to moving the council forward. Most people do not understand how hard
the professional staff works or the amount of pressure they are under. It is
very easy to get burned out doing that job, that's why I'm no longer
there. Also, the entry level District Executives work long hours and don't
get paid all that much money for the amount of time they put in. I would hope
that after 30 plus years of all of the headaches we would want to pay the best
individuals, such as Paul Moore, enough to keep them and their expertise around.
I appreciate the very much misunderstood and underappreciated job they do.
Brian | 11:46 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I am amazed how often the comments are more informative entertaining and
educational than the original article. The comments are the best thing that
has happened to newspapers since movable type!
Homesick from WI | 11:46 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
One thing people are forgetting is that the Duty to God award is a scouting
program too.
I was raised in the home of a pro Scouter. We lived paycheck to paycheck in the provo area counciel. I remember my father leaving home for earily morning meetings with volenteers before they had to go to work and then not getting home until midnight. My father was also camp director for many years and then was over all the camps and I can tell you that we never went on family vacation during the summer becasue he had to be at camp. The problem is that the leaders called in the LDS wards are not there because they want to be. My husband never got became an egale scout because of the leaders lack of interst and he was raised in MN. It saddens me to hear so many people are going to with draw from FOS when it helps to pay for the programs that are available to their boys. My father recently left Utah to be a scout excitive of his own councle after serving Utah's boys for 30 years. I hope people will change their minds soon.
I was raised in the home of a pro Scouter. We lived paycheck to paycheck in the provo area counciel. I remember my father leaving home for earily morning meetings with volenteers before they had to go to work and then not getting home until midnight. My father was also camp director for many years and then was over all the camps and I can tell you that we never went on family vacation during the summer becasue he had to be at camp. The problem is that the leaders called in the LDS wards are not there because they want to be. My husband never got became an egale scout because of the leaders lack of interst and he was raised in MN. It saddens me to hear so many people are going to with draw from FOS when it helps to pay for the programs that are available to their boys. My father recently left Utah to be a scout excitive of his own councle after serving Utah's boys for 30 years. I hope people will change their minds soon.
Cheap is Right | 11:54 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I have to agree with Cheap (above). Utah employers have long suppressed wages
and gotten away with it because so many will work for anything just to live
here. Meanwhile, employees complain about Utah taxes (some of the lowest in the
country), Utah school efficiency (about the best in the country), and now FOS.
BSA is a national organization. If scout executives' pay ranges are based on national market, why is that Moore's fault?
It's not cheaper to live in Utah anymore, and the fact that the state tops so many others in terms of both bankruptcies and working mothers should probably tell us something.
I think that Cheap has it right. Instead of chiming in with your envious comments, go ask for a raise. Maybe then you'll be able to afford to raise your kids well.
BSA is a national organization. If scout executives' pay ranges are based on national market, why is that Moore's fault?
It's not cheaper to live in Utah anymore, and the fact that the state tops so many others in terms of both bankruptcies and working mothers should probably tell us something.
I think that Cheap has it right. Instead of chiming in with your envious comments, go ask for a raise. Maybe then you'll be able to afford to raise your kids well.
Norcal 12 year Scoutmaster | 11:56 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
There is obviously a big decision to make. Huge, huge kudos to the DNews.
I'll gladly donate to the DNEWS!! Honestly, I pray that Church leaders
will recognize what is happening and pray for direction on the matter.
If it were my decision...the Church should start its own program, with all the good principles that Scouting once had, but without all the irrelevant fluff. Drop the BSA and FOS--too much financial hardship, expense of precious people and financial resources, guilt, with little measurable benefit for those precious dollars donated.
BTW--Did you know that just this past year a new requirement was added to the 1st Class requirements?
It is a recruiting requirement!! In my opinion the real motive for this is just to keep those numbers up so as to pay for Exec Scouter salaries.
If it were my decision...the Church should start its own program, with all the good principles that Scouting once had, but without all the irrelevant fluff. Drop the BSA and FOS--too much financial hardship, expense of precious people and financial resources, guilt, with little measurable benefit for those precious dollars donated.
BTW--Did you know that just this past year a new requirement was added to the 1st Class requirements?
It is a recruiting requirement!! In my opinion the real motive for this is just to keep those numbers up so as to pay for Exec Scouter salaries.
Norcal 12 Year Scoutmaster Cont. | 11:57 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Back to my opinion. My wife and I happen to be barely making ends meet. We,
with our kids, live on 3% of our (yes, OUR) collective take home pay (after
regular living expenses are paid--we're tight). It was a huge expense for
me to buy the full class A uniform. We've stretched to donate as much as
we could to FOS.
I've stretched to meet demands of being a Scoutmaster all these years, because I love the Lord and believe in the character building component of Scouting as the activity arm of the priesthood. The problem is that that "arm" is governed by people who do not have the same interest in mind as Church members--that it is the activity arm of the priesthood. They want it to be Junior Military-esque, skills focused only, achievement and recognition focused only...not necessarily the degree of emphasis that is needed in today's world to build lifelong, honorable priesthood holders.
I've stretched to meet demands of being a Scoutmaster all these years, because I love the Lord and believe in the character building component of Scouting as the activity arm of the priesthood. The problem is that that "arm" is governed by people who do not have the same interest in mind as Church members--that it is the activity arm of the priesthood. They want it to be Junior Military-esque, skills focused only, achievement and recognition focused only...not necessarily the degree of emphasis that is needed in today's world to build lifelong, honorable priesthood holders.
Norcal 12 Year Scoutmaster Cont. | 11:57 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Sadly, I absolutely will not donate one more dime to the BSA, and I have been a
very big believer in it for many, many years. This will be fascinating to
watch. I'll be looking for other ways to teach my boys the same principles
and truths--wherever I can find such a program.
Mark my words...people will "vote" on the matter with their wallets, and with their "feet" by not putting their boys in this formerly great program.
We REALLY need a replacement. I hope it can be in place for my boys in the very near future.
Mark my words...people will "vote" on the matter with their wallets, and with their "feet" by not putting their boys in this formerly great program.
We REALLY need a replacement. I hope it can be in place for my boys in the very near future.
Ogden | 12:04 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
A comment before mentioned about those at the top earn the most money,
there's no difference. If people are disgruntled about it, boycott it.
Then we'll see if they continue to make the big bucks. I think the main
ploy is to retain the very best leaders, but oftentimes those at the bottom are
some of the best. In corporate America, including nonprofit organizations,
it's not about what you know but who you know. It's not fair, but
it's life.
Scott Rees | 12:21 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Hard Hearts
It sure hurts and sad to see so many complain about an orgianization that has done so much for our young men for so many years. But what is most disturbing is to see how many of these comments conflict with what our church leaders have asked us to do. Make no mistake that the BSA is the activity arm for our young men. But then again all of us are free to choose or not to choose what are leaders ask us to do. As for me and my house we will follow their direction until I am told diffrently.
It sure hurts and sad to see so many complain about an orgianization that has done so much for our young men for so many years. But what is most disturbing is to see how many of these comments conflict with what our church leaders have asked us to do. Make no mistake that the BSA is the activity arm for our young men. But then again all of us are free to choose or not to choose what are leaders ask us to do. As for me and my house we will follow their direction until I am told diffrently.
Sara | 12:21 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I lived in a very poor ward in a trailer park neighborhood a few years back.
Friends of Scouting came around and collected the meager donations our ward
could provide. It wasn't enough; they had to go around again. It still
wasn't enough. A couple of families in the ward scraped together the
required money at great sacrifice.
When the widow's mite is collected, there is great responsibility to respect that sacrifice and use the money wisely. The scout executives quoted in this article don't understand that. In the future I will donate to organizations that respect the sacrifice that my donation represnents.
When the widow's mite is collected, there is great responsibility to respect that sacrifice and use the money wisely. The scout executives quoted in this article don't understand that. In the future I will donate to organizations that respect the sacrifice that my donation represnents.
Still a supporter | 12:23 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I gave up giving to FOS about 5 yrs ago when I realized very little of the money
was used to directly influence my Troop. I always wondered where that money
went. I knew professional scouters were paid, but they definitely pay themselves
well with donated money, that's for sure.
Instead of FOS, I choose to donate a substantial amount to sponsor a young man in my unit to go to scout camp. That way my unit is directly affected. I feel good about that.
On another note, I will think about donating to FOS again when I, as a scout leader in my ward, can directly solicit cash from members of the ward to fund the activities of my program that I want to do that are costly.
Instead of FOS, I choose to donate a substantial amount to sponsor a young man in my unit to go to scout camp. That way my unit is directly affected. I feel good about that.
On another note, I will think about donating to FOS again when I, as a scout leader in my ward, can directly solicit cash from members of the ward to fund the activities of my program that I want to do that are costly.
61 years in scouting | 12:33 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Kids still need the program so I am still doing it at 81 and giving it my best
effort and pocket money. We slept out in a desert wash and we listened to
coyotes howl near our tent doors at 4 AM. We looked at the bright starlit sky,
observed the beavers at work and watched desert rams in the nearby mountains.
Most modern kids hate uniforms. They won't even wear the uniform of their
contry or salute the flag. They live with cell phones, rock music and computers.
Their world is "my space". Many are spoiled and their heads are full
of crap.
Many of those posting negative on this site do the same. Bring scouting back to the old days. Keep the gays and lawyers away. They have all but ruined the program. We don't need FOS either. Give your money to the local units who can put it to good use. Eagle scouts who earn the badge are among the movers and shakers in todays world..and what is wrong with a 50 miler to make a boy into a man! Get with it folks. There is no substitute for the BSA.
Many of those posting negative on this site do the same. Bring scouting back to the old days. Keep the gays and lawyers away. They have all but ruined the program. We don't need FOS either. Give your money to the local units who can put it to good use. Eagle scouts who earn the badge are among the movers and shakers in todays world..and what is wrong with a 50 miler to make a boy into a man! Get with it folks. There is no substitute for the BSA.
Real World? | 12:40 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Moore seems to have the mistaken idea that there is no limit to the salary
potential in corporate America, and each year you can continue to get raises
until you reach the $200k+ range.
Every company I've ever worked at had salary grades with corresponding ranges. Usually, the percentage of annual raise drops once you reach the midpoint between the range. I worked at one company where most of the staff had reached their salary ceiling and no raises were given for several years in a row.
Some of my friends at Nu Skin were in this situation, and just got laid off. Ironically, a couple were invovled in Scouting and each year took dedicated all of their vacation time to scouting for scout camp and other activities.
Every company I've ever worked at had salary grades with corresponding ranges. Usually, the percentage of annual raise drops once you reach the midpoint between the range. I worked at one company where most of the staff had reached their salary ceiling and no raises were given for several years in a row.
Some of my friends at Nu Skin were in this situation, and just got laid off. Ironically, a couple were invovled in Scouting and each year took dedicated all of their vacation time to scouting for scout camp and other activities.
forever cub | 12:53 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I'll admit seeing that number was surprising but to me it was surprising in
a good way. District Executives work long and hard and they usually don't
get a lot of thanks.
I volunteered to help in my district and I was called to serve in my ward. I would do anything to support my local scout program and I can't believe these negative comments. I can't believe somebody thought there was no character development in Cub Scouts?!? Shocking - if you were trained and worked the program then you should have had lots of opportunities for character development - especially when you bring in the Faith In God Program and work the two together, side by side. I hope the Scouting is always a part of the LDS church because when it's done right, it's a wonderful thing!
I volunteered to help in my district and I was called to serve in my ward. I would do anything to support my local scout program and I can't believe these negative comments. I can't believe somebody thought there was no character development in Cub Scouts?!? Shocking - if you were trained and worked the program then you should have had lots of opportunities for character development - especially when you bring in the Faith In God Program and work the two together, side by side. I hope the Scouting is always a part of the LDS church because when it's done right, it's a wonderful thing!
Joel | 12:55 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I support scouting. It has blessed the lives of my father (a Life Scout), his
six sons (all Eagle scouts), most of my cousins, nephews, and my own sons, and
neighbors. I agree with those who say that Scouting is needed more today than
ever. I believe that anything of value is worth working for and worth paying
for. I liken the scouting experience to that of playing the piano. Most
teenagers don't want to continue doing it, but if they do, they'll be
glad they did. We need to do it right. If it's not working in our units,
we need to improve. It's up to us to make this work better and the
scouting program can help us do that. Keep Pullin' Ralph.
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I wish the church would drop the official endorsement of BSA, and focus on priesthood objectives. Everything that is good about scouting: the values, camping, exposure to various disciplines, etc., we can accomplish without the overhead of the BSA. For me, the bureaucracy of scouting creates major stress, especially when I see that for most LDS boys these days, it's compulsatory. Why not separate the two issues? Let's see if the BSA is strong enough to stand on it's own.