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Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid
539 comments | Read story
Steve | 5:06 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
As mentioned above, we really need to give credit to the Deseret News for
bringing this story forth. This was really gutsy. I'm sure that Mr. Cannon
& Mr. Davidson had to overcome some who thought that anything negative
against BSA was wrong.
I suspect this will appear nationally the next few days. And, it should.
BSA, time to clean up your act. If you don't, the money is going to dry up. And, that is not bad.
I suspect this will appear nationally the next few days. And, it should.
BSA, time to clean up your act. If you don't, the money is going to dry up. And, that is not bad.
Anonymous | 5:22 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Where is the money for the young women of the Church? They are excluded from
Scouting - at very least, the Church does not support young women in scouting
the way it does young men - and the lion's share of the Ward budgets go to
the young men rather than the young women!
Why this discrimination?
Why this discrimination?
Comments continue below
Kevin | 5:23 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Great reporting.
Say What? | 5:26 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
NEVER again will I donate to the Scouts!
Leadership 101 | 5:30 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
The BSA provides excellent leadership training programs.
And the First principle of leadership that is taught is that it is OK to exploit volunteers and cheap labor in order to grow your organization and receive a fat compensation package!
That is true Leadership! Why does everyone have a problem with that? The LDS church supports it!
And the First principle of leadership that is taught is that it is OK to exploit volunteers and cheap labor in order to grow your organization and receive a fat compensation package!
That is true Leadership! Why does everyone have a problem with that? The LDS church supports it!
Not an Eagle! | 5:44 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I would never hire an eagle scout to work for me! The program is corrupt from
the ground up.
This article only proves it.
Why in the world does the LDS Church support such a bogus organization?
This article only proves it.
Why in the world does the LDS Church support such a bogus organization?
DougS | 5:43 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Thanks for the stats, Arc. Let's look at them a little more closely, shall
we?
"Programs and Services"--Yeah. Isn't that where the other $98 for those Defense Department hammers went, too?
"Maintanence and improvements for 18 camps at 7 facilities". Hmm. And the hundred-plus dollars that the scouts themselves have to pay to go to camp go towards . . . what, exactly?
"Special programs and activities: Scout-O-Rama, Jamborees, and much more". Yes. Activities for which, again, the Scouts have to pay if they wish to participate.
"Professional Scouters to support units, districts and the council" Support how, exactly?
"Training for volunteers: Fast Start, Basic and Wood Badge". If they're volunteers, you shouldn't have to pay them. And the people doing the training are already paid employees--do you pay them twice?
"Programs and Services"--Yeah. Isn't that where the other $98 for those Defense Department hammers went, too?
"Maintanence and improvements for 18 camps at 7 facilities". Hmm. And the hundred-plus dollars that the scouts themselves have to pay to go to camp go towards . . . what, exactly?
"Special programs and activities: Scout-O-Rama, Jamborees, and much more". Yes. Activities for which, again, the Scouts have to pay if they wish to participate.
"Professional Scouters to support units, districts and the council" Support how, exactly?
"Training for volunteers: Fast Start, Basic and Wood Badge". If they're volunteers, you shouldn't have to pay them. And the people doing the training are already paid employees--do you pay them twice?
DougS | 5:48 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
"Training for youth leaders: Silver Moccasin, On-Belay, etc."--again,
the youth leaders are volunteers; the people doing the training are already
getting paid. Why this insistence on double-dipping?
"Support to chartered organizations" Name them.
"Monthly roundtables and program ideas". Why do you need monthly meetings? You aren't developing new merit badges monthly. The program doesn't change THAT much--at least, not in a sense that it affects the experience of the boys.
"Community Service: Scouting for Food, Youth Protection Training, and Drug Awareness". Volunteer activities. What part of "YOU DO NOT PAY VOLUNTEERS" are we not getting here?
"Provide camper insurance at council and district sponsored events". Why is it that I have to go ten spaces down your list to find a legitimate expense?
"Community Relations". What does this mean? Why is it necessary?
"Provide blanket coverage of liability to protect leaders and organizations". OK. So far we've reviewed twelve expenses. Two are legitimate. Congratulations.
"Council Shops: Places where leaders can secure Scouting supplies and resource materials". For which they pay through the nose.
"Administrative support for Camporees, Klondike Derbys, and Cuborees." And this can't be done by your full-time professionals because . . .
"Support to chartered organizations" Name them.
"Monthly roundtables and program ideas". Why do you need monthly meetings? You aren't developing new merit badges monthly. The program doesn't change THAT much--at least, not in a sense that it affects the experience of the boys.
"Community Service: Scouting for Food, Youth Protection Training, and Drug Awareness". Volunteer activities. What part of "YOU DO NOT PAY VOLUNTEERS" are we not getting here?
"Provide camper insurance at council and district sponsored events". Why is it that I have to go ten spaces down your list to find a legitimate expense?
"Community Relations". What does this mean? Why is it necessary?
"Provide blanket coverage of liability to protect leaders and organizations". OK. So far we've reviewed twelve expenses. Two are legitimate. Congratulations.
"Council Shops: Places where leaders can secure Scouting supplies and resource materials". For which they pay through the nose.
"Administrative support for Camporees, Klondike Derbys, and Cuborees." And this can't be done by your full-time professionals because . . .
Loretta J. | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
It is clear that many comments that have been posted have been written by people
who have no idea what professional Scout Executives do. It seems like people
believe that the volunteers do all the work and running around while the
Executive just sits in his office with a phone to his ear ordering people
around.
As the wife of a Professional Scout Executive (who makes no where near $100,000) I can say that I see first hand all of the hard work, stress, sacrifice, and long hours that are required to keep the Boy Scout Program running properly. As great as it sounds to have the program run entirely by volunteers it is just not possible. No one could dedicate the amount of energy and time needed to replace a professional Scouter and still manage to support their family in a full time job.
I just want to point out this is probably not news to Church Presidency because they sit on many of the National Boards of the Boy Scouts.
Scouting is a great program and as long as the church supports it we will too. The church wouldn't support Scouting if they didn't believe in it.
As the wife of a Professional Scout Executive (who makes no where near $100,000) I can say that I see first hand all of the hard work, stress, sacrifice, and long hours that are required to keep the Boy Scout Program running properly. As great as it sounds to have the program run entirely by volunteers it is just not possible. No one could dedicate the amount of energy and time needed to replace a professional Scouter and still manage to support their family in a full time job.
I just want to point out this is probably not news to Church Presidency because they sit on many of the National Boards of the Boy Scouts.
Scouting is a great program and as long as the church supports it we will too. The church wouldn't support Scouting if they didn't believe in it.
DougS | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
"Office Services". Other comments have already described the great
value BSA is getting in this regard.
"National Fees". Which go to what, exactly?
Sorry, Arc, but the "expenses" you provide only reinforce the view of the BSA as a large, inefficient, bloated organization.
"National Fees". Which go to what, exactly?
Sorry, Arc, but the "expenses" you provide only reinforce the view of the BSA as a large, inefficient, bloated organization.
Anonymous | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
If it is about the money Mr. Moore than give it back. These salaries should by
itself destroy the BSA. I will never support friends of scouting ever!!
Utah Mom | 5:51 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Most of the boys I know in the scouting program do not even want to be there!
Parents make them become part of scouts probably because they don't want to
be known as the parent who did not follow what they were told to do.
Most, if not all, of the teenagers in high school who are scouts are totally embarrassed that they are in Boy Scouts and would never wear a uniform in public. Even on service projects they don't want to wear a uniform because they are embarrassed but the parents MAKE them do it. My gosh, give you son a chance and let him decide if he wants to be a Boy Scout or not, not MAKE him do it. Many Eagle scouts come from Utah again because as "From Scouting Program" said "I expect my boys to become eagle scouts!!" What about asking what the boys want and not want you, as the parent want? Older boys ARE EMBARRASSED TO BE BOY SCOUTS!!!!!! But they do it because good old mom and dad say they have to.
Ever wonder how many Eagle Scouts are in jail right now? I do!!!
Most, if not all, of the teenagers in high school who are scouts are totally embarrassed that they are in Boy Scouts and would never wear a uniform in public. Even on service projects they don't want to wear a uniform because they are embarrassed but the parents MAKE them do it. My gosh, give you son a chance and let him decide if he wants to be a Boy Scout or not, not MAKE him do it. Many Eagle scouts come from Utah again because as "From Scouting Program" said "I expect my boys to become eagle scouts!!" What about asking what the boys want and not want you, as the parent want? Older boys ARE EMBARRASSED TO BE BOY SCOUTS!!!!!! But they do it because good old mom and dad say they have to.
Ever wonder how many Eagle Scouts are in jail right now? I do!!!
Most of you are off base | 5:52 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Should Mr. Moore's and other senior exec's salaries be reevaluated?
Yes.
However, those of you choosing to use this story as an opportunity to justify your poor scouting experience, or relieve guilt for your unwillingness to contribute to FOS are way off base.
Scouting is a great program when it is done correctly. Those of you that clamor for the end of scouting and complain about FOS have likely never attempted to do it right. Do you really think another program designed to replace scouting would be any more successful if you were unwilling to sacrifice time and money for the boys?
My scouting experience shaped my life for good in so many ways I can not write them all here. If we really cared about the boys we'd be trying to do scouting right, and not attempting to tear it down because it requires time, sacrifice, and has some imperfections.
Next time you think about your negative scouting experience, ask yourself it you (or they) were really doing it right. If the answer is no, then it's no reason to discredit what scouting is and does.
However, those of you choosing to use this story as an opportunity to justify your poor scouting experience, or relieve guilt for your unwillingness to contribute to FOS are way off base.
Scouting is a great program when it is done correctly. Those of you that clamor for the end of scouting and complain about FOS have likely never attempted to do it right. Do you really think another program designed to replace scouting would be any more successful if you were unwilling to sacrifice time and money for the boys?
My scouting experience shaped my life for good in so many ways I can not write them all here. If we really cared about the boys we'd be trying to do scouting right, and not attempting to tear it down because it requires time, sacrifice, and has some imperfections.
Next time you think about your negative scouting experience, ask yourself it you (or they) were really doing it right. If the answer is no, then it's no reason to discredit what scouting is and does.
FOS No more | 5:53 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I'm gladd the truth came out about FOS- I'll be donating no more!!
Mike | 6:02 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I don't mind donating to Scouting. I am an Eagle Scout and love the
program.
I do think they can get some super scouter to do the job for a lot less and still have a great program. Greedy pigs get slaughtered. Off you go.
The only way I am going to stop donating is if they let in the Homosexuals.
I do think they can get some super scouter to do the job for a lot less and still have a great program. Greedy pigs get slaughtered. Off you go.
The only way I am going to stop donating is if they let in the Homosexuals.
About time this is discussed! | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
This debate demonstrates a real problem with lots of passion on both sides.
Here are my questions/comments:
* Scouting is another layer of bureaucracy.
* Can you really run two programs, YM and Scouting, well? Rarely does this happen.
* I ran two troops East of the Mississippi. Good kids, good parents. But next to impossible to run a YM program and a Scouting program with limited resources. Half the time we went camping without filing the proper "Tour Permit". Too much crap already on my plate.
* "Do one thing; do it well."
* I have two sons that are Eagle scouts; it's great on their resume. But too often the program comes before the boy.
* Scout Committee? You try to run one with parents whose kids could care less about Scouting.
* Surely we can have a single program that meshes the best of both organizations.
* Kids don't care if you were their Scoutmaster; they care if you took time to take them camping. That's it. That's what matters. Bye-bye BSA.
Here are my questions/comments:
* Scouting is another layer of bureaucracy.
* Can you really run two programs, YM and Scouting, well? Rarely does this happen.
* I ran two troops East of the Mississippi. Good kids, good parents. But next to impossible to run a YM program and a Scouting program with limited resources. Half the time we went camping without filing the proper "Tour Permit". Too much crap already on my plate.
* "Do one thing; do it well."
* I have two sons that are Eagle scouts; it's great on their resume. But too often the program comes before the boy.
* Scout Committee? You try to run one with parents whose kids could care less about Scouting.
* Surely we can have a single program that meshes the best of both organizations.
* Kids don't care if you were their Scoutmaster; they care if you took time to take them camping. That's it. That's what matters. Bye-bye BSA.
Coaches | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I heard about this a few years ago. I quit donating then. I now give directly
to our own kids in the ward so I know the money goes where I want it to go. I
coach public school sports for about 6 months out of the year with regular
season, traveling to camps and volunteering to help with clinics, all for about
$2500 total. I'll compare my time with kids with theirs any day. Tears in
his eyes! Give me a break! I'm not big into scouts anyway and have
watched several mothers get their eagles.
Joe | 6:20 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Years ago I was a finance clerk. During the first scouting drive the bishop
complained to me that he was under more pressure to reach the FOS quota than in
getting ward members to pay tithing or give fast offering.
Scoutmaster in sandy | 6:25 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I have served as a scoutmaster in both Utah and out of State in both the webelos
and boy scouts. During my 5 years of cumulative service I don't EVER recall
meeting a single professional scout executive in any capacity. My interaction
was with the Bishop, primary pres, or other young men leaders. The most
memorable camps as both a leader and as an eagle scout were always trips to the
mountains on our own as opposed to organized scout camps. I for one do NOT see
the value added by professional scouts to a program run almost in its entirety
by volunteers within a highly organized church. Perhaps the BSA executives do
work hard and can justify their pay- I don't really know. I do feel,
however, that within the LDS context, the contribution of "professional
scouters" is highly overrated.
Jimmy | 6:37 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Look at the lives that are touched. Don't be angry and say you will stop
supporting friends of scouting becuase you aren't making as much money as
they are. YOU, my friend, will never,ever have such an impact as they do. I love
scouting and everything that it has done for me, do not be upset becuase you had
a poor experience with scouting. Scouting effects everyone. These people are
doing so much more then you think. BSA you have and always will have my support.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU.
An all-time high? | 6:37 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
What a "comment"-response to something as mundane as Boy Scouts of America!!
(Kudos to Lee Davidson and Editor Joe Cannon.)
Why?? Because literally millions of volunteer hours are spent in church scouting callings.
Many of those volunteers recognize the problems with the LDS Church trying to run its own version of Scouting. Yet we put up with it, and are usually happy to do so. We believe in the Values of Scouting.
But!! Mention a 6-figure salary combined with this opportunity to post and, Oila! you have a monster on your hands!! Isn't this a clue that something is wrong?
Note to Scout Executives:
Don't Worry. If you are as qualified for your jobs as you say you are, you will have no trouble finding 6-figure jobs in other industries around town if FOS goes down the tubes.
A Solution: | 6:51 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
It's obvious; the salary is excessive.
But the real question is whether the Church should be in the Scouting business.
My ten cents? Either,
a) drop BSA altogether and concentrate on D2G,
OR
b) Limit Church scouting to 11-, 12-, and 13-year olds only. Then get on with life and YM's. If you (or, rather, your mom) don't "get your Eagle" by age 14, too bad.
But the real question is whether the Church should be in the Scouting business.
My ten cents? Either,
a) drop BSA altogether and concentrate on D2G,
OR
b) Limit Church scouting to 11-, 12-, and 13-year olds only. Then get on with life and YM's. If you (or, rather, your mom) don't "get your Eagle" by age 14, too bad.
Steve | 7:17 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
The Red Cross raises $5.5 billion per year. Their CEO gets %500,000, ie.
roughly $1 in pay per $11,000 raised.
The United Way raises $4.07 billion per year. Their CEO gets $350,000, ie. roughly $1 per $11,800 raised.
The Boys Scouts of America raises $175 million per year. Their CEO gets over $900,000 or $1 per $195 raised.
In other words, the BSA CEO's salary is 55 times more generous on a salary to dollars raised basis.
The United Way raises $4.07 billion per year. Their CEO gets $350,000, ie. roughly $1 per $11,800 raised.
The Boys Scouts of America raises $175 million per year. Their CEO gets over $900,000 or $1 per $195 raised.
In other words, the BSA CEO's salary is 55 times more generous on a salary to dollars raised basis.
I am Sickened... | 7:37 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
...to see all the comments from SELFISH and Self-rightous people in this blog.
Do you think that these Scout Excutives should work for free?? This is their
full-time job and often an 80 hour per week job at that. When those boys come
knockin at my door I think I will double the amount I pay, because there are too
many selfish people in the Church and out of it, who cannot seem to support an
organization that is still the best thing out there to keep boys and young men
out of gangs and out of trouble. If the Boy Scouts disappear, it will prove that
this nation and its people are becoming too darn selfish, and heaven help us
then!!!!
Thaddeus | 7:38 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
This Council is only ONE of MANY that are having huge PR problems with their
"executive compensation" issues. The Orange County, California
Council's exec, regularly makes almost THREE times what Moore does! Also,
there are many "issues" of financial impropriety with the recent
Bahamain "leadership conference" wherein the BSA
"leadership" treated themselves to rather lavish resort
"amenities" all paid for with some of the donations from FOS. And YES!
Trapper Trails, Great Salt Lake, and National Park Council(Provo) execs were
ALL there as well. PErhaps it's time to re-evaluate the financial
"accounting" that is put out by each of our Councils. I am stellarly
unimpresse with the condition of several Trapper Trails Council camps, their
Camp Staff, and their utterly disgusting food. It's time for us to tighten
up the purse strings and FORCE the COuncils to provide quality over Executive
compensation.
Fall-out coming.......... | 7:55 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Scouting is based on service. Not greed.
Look at the countless hours from parents, leaders, and scouts. Who receive zero monetary compensation.
We live in a day of double-standards.
Say good bye to FOS. That scam is over.
Look at the countless hours from parents, leaders, and scouts. Who receive zero monetary compensation.
We live in a day of double-standards.
Say good bye to FOS. That scam is over.
Dave | 8:04 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
This is a disgusting revelation! Until it is corrected, many of us will
respectfully refuse to participate in FOS.
Some balance | 8:16 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I have been somewhat familiar with a number of Scouting District Executives
(those Professional Scouters on the front lines serving the units) and they have
college educations and make less than school teachers I know with similar years
of experience and they work 12 months a year and often long hours. I sure
wouldn't work for what they receive. As for the Council CEO, for the
employees he is responsible for and the many facets of the job, I don't
think a Council CEO is overpaid at 150-200K. I plan to continue my Friends of
Scouting donation and to keep volunteering.
Steve T | 8:18 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
"Do you think that these Scout Excutives (sic) should work for
free??"
No. But, should they be paid obscenely from small donations? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And, personally, I think defending this is kind of sick.
P.S. Wouldn't you love to know the identity of some of the defenders of the bloated salaries?
No. But, should they be paid obscenely from small donations? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And, personally, I think defending this is kind of sick.
P.S. Wouldn't you love to know the identity of some of the defenders of the bloated salaries?
Getting Old | 8:26 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
There's obviously two issues being discussed here:
1. Compensation of the SL council's CEO.
2. Is scouting the best program for the development of young men in the church?
The influence my scout leaders had on me during the formative teenage years were important in my personal growth. While I do not use knots and survival skills working in private equity I am grateful for the discipline I learned working towards the achievement of Eagle Scout.
That being said, I'm sure there are many capable executives that could run the council for less than Moore. This discussion will help clarify what is fair compensation for the council's CEO.
Finally, let's be constructive and intelligent about our reasoning and opinions. I sure get sick of all the whining.
1. Compensation of the SL council's CEO.
2. Is scouting the best program for the development of young men in the church?
The influence my scout leaders had on me during the formative teenage years were important in my personal growth. While I do not use knots and survival skills working in private equity I am grateful for the discipline I learned working towards the achievement of Eagle Scout.
That being said, I'm sure there are many capable executives that could run the council for less than Moore. This discussion will help clarify what is fair compensation for the council's CEO.
Finally, let's be constructive and intelligent about our reasoning and opinions. I sure get sick of all the whining.
Ohio Scouter | 8:25 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
It's interesting to read the many comments. A couple of observations:
1. You get what you pay for. While the salaries may seem high, they are comparable or even lower than many other occupations that involve managing/steering groups as large as Scout Districts and Councils.
Also, statistics can make any point you want to make. The writer compares Mr. Moore's (and other Scouters, also) salary to the average salary in Utah for physicians and attorneys -- what he should have done is compared the average salary of attorneys and physicians with 20+ years of experience to Mr. Moore's salary. I would bet that Mr. Moore's salary would suddenly seem low -- and yet many physicians/attorneys with 20+ years of experience aren't working 60 - 80 hours per week like scout executives.
2. For those who think the LDS church should "get with the times" and support a program that is more in line with the interests of today's youth... Did you raise your hand in the last General Conference to sustain your leaders? If so, then do what you said you would do (support/sustain the church leaders) and work to make the scouting program successful for the youth.
1. You get what you pay for. While the salaries may seem high, they are comparable or even lower than many other occupations that involve managing/steering groups as large as Scout Districts and Councils.
Also, statistics can make any point you want to make. The writer compares Mr. Moore's (and other Scouters, also) salary to the average salary in Utah for physicians and attorneys -- what he should have done is compared the average salary of attorneys and physicians with 20+ years of experience to Mr. Moore's salary. I would bet that Mr. Moore's salary would suddenly seem low -- and yet many physicians/attorneys with 20+ years of experience aren't working 60 - 80 hours per week like scout executives.
2. For those who think the LDS church should "get with the times" and support a program that is more in line with the interests of today's youth... Did you raise your hand in the last General Conference to sustain your leaders? If so, then do what you said you would do (support/sustain the church leaders) and work to make the scouting program successful for the youth.
RIP to FOS | 8:32 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
They better not try to resurrect the FOS program under some other clever
sounding name. Just give it up and find another way to pay for the operating
expenses, including the too-high exec salaries. Trim the fat and try to keep a
greater share of the money at the local level, where it's actually helping
the boys directly.
Ashamed | 8:33 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
To think that I have gone to families in my neighborhood and asked them to
donate to FOS knowing that they are struggling financialy, convincing them that
the money they donate goes to local offices and the local troops to help our
youth; when the national executive is making nearly a MILLION dollars!! Why in
the world do we as volunteer scout leaders have to pay out of our pocket to buy
badges for our scouts when they advance or not having decent equipment for
campouts. I AM SICK!!
BSA YOU BETTER EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!!!! And saying that it fits the budget they manage and the number of scouts under them does not work for me!!
BSA YOU BETTER EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!!!! And saying that it fits the budget they manage and the number of scouts under them does not work for me!!
I'm done with FOS | 8:35 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I love scouting, been in it for years...I won't pay another dime to FOS
until he cuts his salary by 50%
Marlene | 8:40 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I was a volunterr in the BSA for 16 years. I never once was paid for all my gas
hauling boys to and fro to camp, activities, etc. I even had to buy most of the
boys awards because at the time there wasn't a Scout fund in my ward. When
I found out recently that the top executive in the Grand Teton Peaks Council in
Idaho Falls made over $100,000 a year it disgusted me. The volunteers are the
ones that do all the work. I am divorced and live on a fixed income and when
they come around collecting for the scouting program I had to tell them I have
none to give which is the truth. I live on my Social Security now and if I gave
to the fund it would mean not paying a bill or buying groceries. Let those big
high-paying executives take a cut in pay so the wards are not assessed so much
money.
The identiies of the defenders | 8:43 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
... are none other than the wives and families of the executives themselves,
I'll bet. I wonder if Paul had to pay for the uniform he's wearing in
the picture. The shirt and patches alone would cost nearly $100 for the average
peon like me, but I'll bet he gets a nice discount for being the top dog.
After all he works so much harder than the rest of us poor, ignorant
rank-and-file guys in the trenches, doing all the menial tasks like taking our
Scouts camping and holding troop meetings with them on a weekly basis. I think
it's time for a major critical audit -- the LDS Church needs to hold
Scouting accountable for where all the money is going.
Polly | 8:50 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
What a racket! Let's do our own program; we're doing all the real
work now anyway. We provide the boys, the facilities, the volunteers, and the
funds. Currently, were only getting overpriced badges and magazines in return.
An LDS boys program would keep precious resources of time and money focused on
the kids, not a bloated hierarchy of overpaid "executives." Loving
ward members, teachers, and leaders change kids' lives - not Roy Williams.
Professional Fundraiser | 8:50 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
If the consequence of all is that Friends of Scouting is gutted or goes away,
there's only two results:
1). Scouting programs will be scaled back.
2). The Councils will start hiring professional fundraisers. Probably a goodly number of them. They will make $35,000 to $55,000 a year. They will raise on average perhaps five or six times their salary. And if that happens the fundraising ratios for the Councils start looking very wasteful.
Friends of Scouting is a very efficient way to raise money. Whatever comes next will be far less so.
1). Scouting programs will be scaled back.
2). The Councils will start hiring professional fundraisers. Probably a goodly number of them. They will make $35,000 to $55,000 a year. They will raise on average perhaps five or six times their salary. And if that happens the fundraising ratios for the Councils start looking very wasteful.
Friends of Scouting is a very efficient way to raise money. Whatever comes next will be far less so.
Sick of Scouting | 8:51 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
The best thing that keeps males out of trouble is NOT the BSA, but rather an
intact traditional family, with a loving mother and father, teaching righteous
principles.
If the Church drops the BSA scouting program, the sky will not fall in. Those of you who love the BSA and want to keep funding the mega salaries of the BSA executives, can still do so. Your boys can join a non-Mormon scout troop, or even start one, sponsored by a business, or some other entity. Don't FORCE or put a guilt trip on every ward member to support the BSA. Not all of us agree with you! This article is the last straw, and my long time support of the BSA ends today.
If the Church drops the BSA scouting program, the sky will not fall in. Those of you who love the BSA and want to keep funding the mega salaries of the BSA executives, can still do so. Your boys can join a non-Mormon scout troop, or even start one, sponsored by a business, or some other entity. Don't FORCE or put a guilt trip on every ward member to support the BSA. Not all of us agree with you! This article is the last straw, and my long time support of the BSA ends today.
S. Idaho | 8:55 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
How about a new program --- Friends of Scout Executives.
Supporters of these folks can go around and ask folks to donate to pay the Scout executives. Scout executives get every dime that is raised.
Hmmm. Wonder how much would be raised --- now?
Supporters of these folks can go around and ask folks to donate to pay the Scout executives. Scout executives get every dime that is raised.
Hmmm. Wonder how much would be raised --- now?
Sacrifice? | 8:57 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
No scout exe. has ever blessed the life of a boy in my troop
David | 8:58 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I am the Chairman of the Scout Committee in my LDS Ward. We started our Friends
of Scouting drive last Sunday.
I spent about 6 hours of my own time organizing the fund raising efforts. I am also asked to attend training and a myriad of other meetings during my personal time. Further, I very often work 60 hours a week at my own job at which I make significantly less than 200K per year! I am so thoroughly disgusted by the information contained in this article; I�m not sure exactly what my next step will be.
What�s even more maddening is the fact that by virtually any competitive business management standard the Greater Salt Lake Scout Council is very poorly operated. Visit their offices and you will notice poorly maintained offices, extremely out dated methods of record keeping and many staff employees not doing much work. The head count is appalling for the lack of work that is done. It wasn�t until about 15 months ago that they even got a website to do any type of interactive functions, further, it�s poorly designed and technically unreliable!
I spent about 6 hours of my own time organizing the fund raising efforts. I am also asked to attend training and a myriad of other meetings during my personal time. Further, I very often work 60 hours a week at my own job at which I make significantly less than 200K per year! I am so thoroughly disgusted by the information contained in this article; I�m not sure exactly what my next step will be.
What�s even more maddening is the fact that by virtually any competitive business management standard the Greater Salt Lake Scout Council is very poorly operated. Visit their offices and you will notice poorly maintained offices, extremely out dated methods of record keeping and many staff employees not doing much work. The head count is appalling for the lack of work that is done. It wasn�t until about 15 months ago that they even got a website to do any type of interactive functions, further, it�s poorly designed and technically unreliable!
Camp Hunter | 8:59 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Okay, listen. I grew up at Camp Hunt on Bear Lake. Both my parents worked
there. I recently drove by there and was shocked to see the conditions. Almost
all of the mature trees are dead and now need to be removed as they are a huge
liability if they fall on someone (actually a limb did break off a tree and fell
on a girl in a tent during a girls camp and broke her leg). This will cost
mucho deniro (and probably some American dollars as well). Well, they had a
nice person offer to go through the camp and cut out the diseased trees years
ago for about $10,000 but they turned it down. Now it will cost them more to
clear out and replant the trees. Good management of resources eh? I seriously
hope these are not the same people making these large sums of money.
David | 9:02 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
More from David
I just sent our letters to almost 100 families, including old widows in their 80�s & 90�s asking for Friends of Scouting donations. In one week, I have collected over $1000 dollars in checks, and that�s only 40% of my �quota.�
Mr. Paul Moore has been paid all these years climbing the ranks of the BSA participating in Boy Scouting. To me it�s not only his job, but also his hobby. I have hobbies too, but I don�t have old women paying me with money they struggle manage for their day-to-day existence in order to support any of my hobbies.
Mr. Moore, you and your fellow BSA executives should not sleep well tonight, or any future night for the serious ethical crimes you have all perpetrated on donors. I expected to learn some day that BSA executive were highly paid, but this is beyond reason and good conscience.
I�m done with FOS for good. I believe I shall return all the donations I have received with a copy of this Deseret News article to each donor and tell them to reconsider their donation before I turn it in to BSA.
I just sent our letters to almost 100 families, including old widows in their 80�s & 90�s asking for Friends of Scouting donations. In one week, I have collected over $1000 dollars in checks, and that�s only 40% of my �quota.�
Mr. Paul Moore has been paid all these years climbing the ranks of the BSA participating in Boy Scouting. To me it�s not only his job, but also his hobby. I have hobbies too, but I don�t have old women paying me with money they struggle manage for their day-to-day existence in order to support any of my hobbies.
Mr. Moore, you and your fellow BSA executives should not sleep well tonight, or any future night for the serious ethical crimes you have all perpetrated on donors. I expected to learn some day that BSA executive were highly paid, but this is beyond reason and good conscience.
I�m done with FOS for good. I believe I shall return all the donations I have received with a copy of this Deseret News article to each donor and tell them to reconsider their donation before I turn it in to BSA.
Zion Prospereth! | 9:02 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
All you who are putting your foot down, you better also cancel your BYU football
season tickets, because you know how much the head coach makes. Is scouting a
just cause--a worthy expense--or not? Why do we feel better about paying for
videos or vacations or a boat than for helping boys develop character? For what
will we sacrifice?
Fireside Chat | 9:03 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I have met Paul Moore many times. Nice guy.
But I had no idea he was pulling down that kind of cash!
These non-profit organizations are big business for some people! Amazing!
Next time I see him I will ask how he can justify it - you know, Off the record, over a campfire where we can talk openly and honestly.
But I had no idea he was pulling down that kind of cash!
These non-profit organizations are big business for some people! Amazing!
Next time I see him I will ask how he can justify it - you know, Off the record, over a campfire where we can talk openly and honestly.
Judgment Day for BSA | 9:15 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
To Ohio Scouter | 8:25 p.m.
The difference is that lawyers, doctors, etc. are PROFESSIONALS who are involved in FOR PROFIT endeavors - explicitly providing goods and services in exchange for money.
Scouting is supposed to be NOT-FOR-PROFIT. That is why they get the tax advantages (the same tax advantages Churches get) and the fund-raisers and such.
There are hundreds if not thousands of well-qualified scouters who would do on a part-time or volunteer basis what Paul Moore does full-time for a breath-taking salary!
It is accountability time. The BSA must re-evaluate their business model and come up with more efficient ways of serving their mission: "...to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."
Otherwise, that mission can and will be served by other organizations in a much more efficient way.
The difference is that lawyers, doctors, etc. are PROFESSIONALS who are involved in FOR PROFIT endeavors - explicitly providing goods and services in exchange for money.
Scouting is supposed to be NOT-FOR-PROFIT. That is why they get the tax advantages (the same tax advantages Churches get) and the fund-raisers and such.
There are hundreds if not thousands of well-qualified scouters who would do on a part-time or volunteer basis what Paul Moore does full-time for a breath-taking salary!
It is accountability time. The BSA must re-evaluate their business model and come up with more efficient ways of serving their mission: "...to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."
Otherwise, that mission can and will be served by other organizations in a much more efficient way.
Tricked | 9:17 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Church policy allows for 1 fundraiser a year. The boys sell flags or something
and that money goes to fund the their activities for their year.
Then against stated policy boys and leaders do another fund raiser. For what? Not any more. Not in my ward.
BSA salaries should be tied to services and materials sold. They should not pimp out kids, parents, or volunteer leaders to beg for their salaries.
I feel bad for the kids next year when they try and earn some money for an honest service like flags and people will have this article in their minds.
Then against stated policy boys and leaders do another fund raiser. For what? Not any more. Not in my ward.
BSA salaries should be tied to services and materials sold. They should not pimp out kids, parents, or volunteer leaders to beg for their salaries.
I feel bad for the kids next year when they try and earn some money for an honest service like flags and people will have this article in their minds.
deseretnews.com moderator | 9:19 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Personal note to "anonymous"
Your comments were not posted because a) they were off topic, b) you are incorrect with your facts and c) they are offensive.
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What will probably happen is that the Boy Scouts will double the already high prices that they charge for everything, from uniforms to patches, books, materials, camp fees, registration, etc. In other words, we'll all end up paying the poobahs anyway.
I got a lot of positive things out of Scouting and am an Eagle Scout myself. I just disagree with FOS and the high salaries that the top leaders are making.