Deseret News | Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid

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Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid

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What are they doing? | 12:16 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

The Council needs be more transparent. I often thought that atleast a part SME/FOS funds were put into an endowment or trust. For as long as we have been doing SME/FOS the council could have a sizable endowment with which to finance its activlities by simply setting aside a portion of SME/FOS or making people aware that they can donate to the fund.
The major problem with scouting is that it is lead by lifelong professional Scouters. I am not sure what Mr. Moore's bachlors degree is in but judging from his age and time with the scouts he does't appear to have any real business expirence outside the scouting program. Considerable expirence outside the BSA should be mandatory in order to hold such a high position with in the BSA. It allows for new ideas to be brought in to the organization and provides perspective with which to make good managment/financial decisions. Sadly it appears that the SLC Council has lacked practicle business expertise and the vision to see the great goods it might have done had they really been "prepared".

Bottom line | 12:23 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I have never liked scouting. True. I have donated every year. True. I will NOT be doing it anymore. True. This is my personal decision. I am fed up with elitists. I am fed up with the growing gap between the haves and have nots. I will continue to feel this way until the trends that are destroying the middle class are reversed. I am angry. No amount of arm twisting using "church persuasion" is going to change my opinion. I have made observations and made my own mind up. I do not blindly follow. I never have.

A Reluctant BSA Supporter | 12:26 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

The big difference in the LDS troops and non-LDS troops is the desire to be there. If only those boys and parents who want to participate in Scouting are there and they are committing the time and money for the activities, than it works and you may feel that you are getting your moneyï¿½s worth by paying the high salaries. The difference in the Church is people are called as leaders and they may not even like the program to begin with. In addition, you have boys that have no interest in the program that do not want to be there. I am an Eagle Scout and I hated the ï¿½Scoutingï¿½ part of the program the whole time I was in it. All my merit badges/patches are still stapled to the cards they came on and I will NOT put on my resume that I am an Eagle. Now I am called to work in a program that I did not like when I was a youth and I still do not like it. Because I have a testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not mean I have a testimony of Scouting.

Comments continue below

A Reluctant BSA Supporter | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Anonymous, I can tell you how we can support Scouting without supporting Friends of Scouting. We do it by donating our time, money and resources into a program even though we may not particularly like it. We accept the callings and then spend our own money on the boyï¿½s behalf where we know 100% of it is going directly to the boys. We pay money to support our local troop activities and pay for our childrenï¿½s activities directly out of our own pockets and do not rely upon general fund for our boyï¿½s support. The only reason we do Scouting in our family is because it is part of the LDS program in the United States. When we lived in Venezuela we did not participate in scouting because it is not part of the LDS program there. I can tell by this board that there is some huge confusion between the Gospel and Scouting. I can assure you I can get a temple recommend and attend the temple with a clear conscious if I do not buy scout popcorn or donate money to FOS.

NeverAnEagle | 12:47 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I'm throwing my voice in with all the outrage. Expensive and a waste of time, its just about time they shut Boy Scouts down. I remember being forced to join as a kid too, and having to go to my "meetings" while my friends were all experimenting with narcotics under the high school bridge. So sadly I can say because of Scouting I never used drugs. Down with Moore! Down with Scouting! Up with X-box & narcotics!

tired | 1:09 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Iam tired of always hearing that we should support scouts as a church and then getting bent over time and again be it FOS, paying $3.00 for a merit badge, or going on a guilt trip because I wont be scout master again for the 3rd time. If the berthern are so concerned about our youth, why not go with the "duty to God" program, that has little overhead and is actually inspired. My guess is that the BSA will just hand out a bunch more "silver antelopes" to some church brass and this thing will just blow over.

RGK | 1:11 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Why are scout executives paid such large salaries? I know that they put in a lot time, but so do I in my job plus I put in time as a local non-paid volunteer scout leader. Why am I not financially compensated for this work when I could be earning more in my civilian job? The reason is because I feel a purpose that I am helping my family and community. For some reason it appears that the scout executives have lost sight of working for a higher purpose. Most people are okay with scout executives earing a good salary, but what I read in this article was outlandish and showed a total lack of understanding and oversight from those that should be in charge of this fine program.

As for me I will have future doubts about donating again for Friends for Scouting and of supporting this well meaning program as a volunteer.

Reader | 1:41 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

None of the comments newer than 6:55 am are showing up.

Saddenend | 1:48 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

How well I remember the day over a decade a go when I was serving as 2nd Counselor to the bishop. The stake's demands to fulfill the FOS quota were bordering on harshness. I had just done my second or third round of trying to squeeze the required dollars from the members. I said to him this: "It's a sad day when my standing as a bearer of the Melchizedek Priesthood hinges upon my ability to raise funds for the Boy Scouts of America." There's just got to be a better way to make this work.

Scouter | 1:52 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Scout official's HAVE to be paid well. Do you have any idea how many UNIFORMS those guys have to buy? ;-)

Curious | 1:59 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

The people who are mormon and posting your thoughts, can you see how hypocritcal you are? Is this why the missionaries have been telling me that the church is true but the members in it aren't? From the outside looking in, your church has so many impressive factors from a logical stand point. And I love how I feel when I am around some of your members. Frankly, the reaction to this article tells me there are those who are not as convinced as I am that there is good in the mormon church. If these posts are any indication of the dedication of your church's belief's, the church is in trouble. My next meeting with the missionaries will be interesting...

Fundraiser | 2:06 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

My comment didn't appear so I'll rewrite it in a different way: I once commented to my bishop that as his second counselor it saddened me that my standing in the priesthood hinged upon my ability to raise funds for the Boy Scouts of America.

CKB | 2:12 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Hey "Zion Prospereth", so the head BYU football coach makes 300+K...so what? He is responsible for putting a football program together which will fill the 64,500 seat in Lavell Edwards Stadium. If it weren't for the football program you could kiss goodbye most all of the other athletic programs at BYU, and there could be other financial benefits that we don't know about. So basically the BYU coach is a fund raiser for other programs! The scouting program just sucks money in for their OWN purposes.

And for Friends of Scouting...I have just LOVED how we are "unofficially assigned" a certain dollar figure but can't use a fund raising activity to raise it. My old Bishop used to say "if they are going to give me an unoffical allotment then we will have an unoffical fund raiser to raise the money."

I understand if this scout official was paid 80-100K but that is it!

Dedicated Scouter | 2:19 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I've been in Scouting for years, earned my Eagle, served as Asst Scoutmaster and then Scoutmaster, and am currently the Webelos leader. I have many fond memories of scouting, however, I never liked FOS because of how it's handled by the wards and stakes. I've already paid my donation but next year plan on giving it to the ward troop instead. I have never seen one benefit come back to the boys and that's where it's needed the most. By the way, I have three boys, the oldest of which is in my Webelos den. I hope all three will eventually earn their Eagles.

One last point, I've compared the advancment requirements and they are harder now than 23 years ago when I earned my Eagle.

To Steve at 12:24 am | 2:25 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

You wrote:

"The level of compensation exceeds what is available in most private corporations of similar size."

My friend, you apparently have not idea how much money people make. Private organizations half the size of BSA pay their top executives significantly more than what this guy makes.

Non-profit org's need top talent, too. This man, for all he does, is largely under paid.

Money, money, money | 2:30 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Utahns are cheap. Create it as an MLM and watch it grow!! Sorry, you won't get money back if you contribute to FOS or get others to contribute, just a well run program that continues to improve! Thank you Mr. Moore!

$ Big Money $ | 2:34 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

FOS has never been to collect $ for the scouts in your neighborhood (Ward). It's always been for the District & Council leadership.

If you are opposed to FOS - make a donation directly to your local scouts. Mormons can fill out the "other" field on their Tithing slip and specify Scouts (Deacons), Varsity (Teachers) or Venture (Priests).

Comments? | 2:46 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

No comments since 8:27 a.m.? Mine haven't shown up yet and were not abusive, offensive, off-topic or misrepresentative. What's up?

Past Leader | 2:54 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

As a former leader within the LDS church I always found it very hard to always take the Scouting line from the leaders of the church. I think something that meets the resistence that scouting has overall on the ground floor, with common members of the church for so long, shows that either something is very fundimentally wrong with the church's un-dieing support of this corporation, OR we as members are going to be weeded out as non-believers. I thend to think it is the former. But I don't ever see the church leadership backing away from scouts so we best just bear the trial.

MK | 3:10 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

The real issue (to me) is not what BSA professionals make. The real issue is the use of LDS ecclesiastical organization (stakes and wards) to collect money for a private corporation. The FOS drive material should be sent directly to the scout troop leaders not to the stake president with a troop (ward) goal attached. The same is true for IHC (Pennies By The Inch) and even Stake Lagoon Day tickets; the church organization should NOT be used to support private corporations regardless of past relationships or customs.
Whether or not scouting is relevant to boys today is another issue that the church needs to address...and soon.

Brian | 3:54 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I for one won't be contributing another dime to scouting for the rest of my life.

Leader Man | 4:44 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I am not sure where I come out on this whole debate. I loved Scouting as a boy and gained a great deal from it. And I know the Brethren still support Scouting in the U.S. Boys certainly need to learn goal setting and how to work hard need to have something other than just video games and music. On the other hand, in my last two Scout callings, I would say that only about one boy out of eight had any self-motivation to come to meetings or work on requirements at home. And it was like pulling teeth to get parents to follow up with boys at home. Even the bishop and the "stronger" families in the ward routinely let their boys miss meetings and camps for sports or parties or what have you (and I don't blame them--every family should decide for itself was is more important). Also, I wonder how relevant all the teaching is that relates to camping, knots, and so forth. This is no longer the world we live in. Somehow the Duty to God program needs to become preeminent and completely supplant Scouting.

John F. | 5:05 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I would like to see the LDS Church keep Scouting but negotiate with BSA to be an independent franchise. The Church would follow BSA rules and purchase all materials from BSA (badges, manuals, uniforms, etc.) like franchises do, but the Church's council would have its own leadership (perhaps volunteer but more realistically paid), do its own fund-raising, own and maintain its own camps and facilities, etc. If BSA is about the young men, an arrangement is do-able.

I wonder | 5:07 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I wonder how many professional scouters have numerous posts here to save their own jobs. If they feel that they can earn more elsewhere, let them! I agree wholeheartedly with those that say that Duty to God should replace the Scouting program. Scouting has not changed with the times and we now find it antiquated and out of touch with the needs of our youth.

Wow!! | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

My kids will never be involved in this orginization!!! This is a shocker, I couldn't believe this and wish I hadn't made that donation to the scouts because it undoubtly didn't go to the boys...

What a shame!!!!

from Kansas | 5:56 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Yes, the scouting program is a good program, if it is run well. My brother's scout master was not a good example, and, so when my son joined the scouts, his father became heavily involved. There wasn't a single overnight activity without Dad being there. I felt I had to protect my son. I'm proud of my eagle scout son, but don't see the need of the scouting program in church. By the way, I have a Ph.D., put in more than 40 hours a week, and definitely don't make a million dollars. And I even love what I'm doing. I don't donate to the United Way, because of its overhead, and will no longer donate to FOS. My donations go directly to the church. Overhead is at a minimum there. There is no justification for these kinds of salaries.

Accountability | 5:59 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I wonder if the key now is for those in the Scout Councils to take responsibility for the organization that they oversee.

The next meeting of each Council needs to be open to the public and the press -- a press release needs to go out. There needs to be intense coverage and plentiful attendance by those who are not a member of the Counci. And, that needs to continue.

It would be interesting to watch this debate play out in the light of day with voting members of the Council explaining why salaries should or should not be where they are.

While private, Scouting is really a a public institution in the sense that is serves a broad swath of our population. If it is going to survive and thrive, its leaders need to deal head on with the issue of executive compensation, taking into account the intense views out here.

If they merely dismiss the public outcry, then resentment will continue to build. The Scout offices are now in the spotlight. They need to embrace public scrutiny and avoid the urge to ignore the unwashed masses.

Wisc | 6:17 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Growing up, my best friend's dad was a professional scouter. He did work long hours and their family was not wealthy by any means. I have no problem with 23 professional scouters in the state making $50,000 dollars a year. That's $50,000 pre-state and federal taxes, and $50,000 pre-FICA. When you take that in to account, it's really not an excessive amount to raise a family on. And considering the fact that most of those professional scouters have probably been at it 15-20 years, I think that making that much money is okay. And as for Paul Moore making $200,000, a) he's over scouting for the ENTIRE STATE (how about we stick in someone less experienced that we can pay less, let's see how efficiently things run in the BSA then) and b) I guarantee that he works longer hours at his job than the vast majority of the the complainers posted here.

Br'er Robbit | 6:36 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Well I'm surprised at the salaries but I'll probably still give the same moderate sum to FOS as always.
I've spent decades in YM and scouting callings, and I estimate 50% of 12-14 Y.O.s like it, but 90% or more of 14 Y.O.s & older do not. Maybe BSA should end at 14 in Church. If it was truly voluntary and self-funding in the wards I think it would collapse.
Furthermore, many BSA council leaders secretly do not like the Mormon troops and leaders because LDS leaders and youth have a greater committment to the Church and a shallower committment to BSA, and because they perceive that badges and rank advancements are often "given" and not really earned.

Salaries should reflect service | 6:43 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I think the problem is that people feel that a person that earns 4 times the average Utahn's salary should offer something that they can't do. A surgeon or doctor can save a life. A college football coach has the rare knowledge it takes to win against 11 huge athletes.
It has been established that professional scouters work hard. Every professional does. But **what do these guys do that I can't do?** I have more education, as much or more skill with youth (I'm a teacher) and a great knowledge of the outdoors and scouting ways. (Eagle scout and almost 2 decades of experience in scouting).
As a scoutmaster who has tried to patch this sinking ship, I say let Duty to God take over from here.

Thoughts | 7:08 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I'm a firm believer in the principles the Scout program teaches. I worry that if the LDS church dropped scouting, it could severly weaken the organization which would hinder non-LDS troops as well. The executive compensation is higher than I would like to see. However, how many people who have posted might be willing to pay $80 for a Jazz ticket for a two hour game. Most of that money goes to the players & LHM. $80 to FOS is better spent in my opinion. I would like to see the LDS church slowly back away from scouting in a way that didn't drastically hurt the BSA organization. The Young Men's program could still do plenty of community service and camping, but bag the costly badges, charter fees, paperwork, & administrative costs, etc. I will support FOS because it's better spent there than on concert tickets or Jazz games. I wouldn't be sad to see the LDS church run their own equivalent program though.

Joescout | 8:20 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I have always wondered where all that Friends of Scouting money went that I begged for from my niegbors. I knew that we never saw any of it in our troop.

I think it is a disgrace that these men are taking a quarter of a million dollars at the local level and a million at the natinal level. What CROOKS! We are so grateful to know the truth.

Proud to NOT BE AN EAGLE SCOUT | 8:31 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I think it would usher in an era of hope and peace if the LDS Church dropped the BSA. I'm 17 years old and have always been happy that I decided to stop active participation before I ended up with an Eagle. Scouting is such an absurd program nowadays that I would be flat out ASHAMED to be an Eagle Scout. I have seen people excluded because of the expensive activities; I have been involved in laborious fundraisers just so my ward can pay the scouting fees. I would say that the average cost per Eagle Scout is over $600. Why are we spending so much time on these fundraisers if so few people benefit? Many troops have seen the ineffectiveness of the program and don't actively participate anyways. Why are we still paying the money to fund these greedy buffoons at the top of the BSA? Scouting does not meet the needs of the young men in the church anymore. The Duty to God program is very much more valuable and is furthermore free. Robert Baden-Powell did not start scouting to harm boys and fill greedy pockets, but this is what it is starting to do.

Experienced Leader | 8:38 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I have put twelve of my own boys through the scouting program, all of which became Eagle Scouts. I was an Assistant Scoutmaster, Scoutmaster, Chairman, Bishop's Counselor, Bishop, Stake Mission President, Counselor in the Stake Presidency, Area Authority and now serve as Patriarch and after reading this article I will never give to FOS again...

anonymous | 8:55 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I am a volunteer and use to work at the scout office. I am appalled that the executives make that much money. The employees make minimum wage and do all of the hard work. They never paid overtime to their employees, they simply recieved "comp time" which was unpaid time off for the time that was worked over 40 hours. To think that we worked many hours overtime and they didnt pay us for that, but instead that went to the executives makes me angry.How would you feel if you worked overtime without pay, but your boss made 6 figures? I once worked 46 hours of overtime in am month and got 3 days off without pay as compensation. (I couldnt afford to take any more)I am also a volunteer and spend countless hours and money on my boys. The Scouting program is a great program with great values, and it shouldnt be penalized, but someone needs to take a better look at the pay schedules for the actual employees. I think the scout executives work hard and need to be compensated, but when is the last time you saw one of them at the office working with the others.

LaVerl | 9:27 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

I have been asked to collect for FOS...I should have it done by now, and I waited so long that I now have to deal with this news...could the CEO dude please donate a few sheckels to me for a bullet proof jacket rental? I'd be really grateful.

Philanthropy and Business | 9:51 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

This is a not a problem with Boy Scouts. This is a problem with corporate compensation. Why would anyone run the Scouts for 50K a year when he/she can go anywhere else and make 10 times more. We have to pay the going rate. Itï¿½s unlikely that we will find a qualified philanthropist who values scouting more than money. Itï¿½s even less likely that there are enough qualified philanthropists to allow every Scout council to hire their own.

Good Laughs | 10:51 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

All of these postings have brought some much needed laughter to my life. Especially, "Experienced Leader", 8:38p.m. 13 Nov. It is so funny to see so many claim to have given so much to FOS before this article and now that you read this article, you have seen the light and will no longer give. Because of my PhD in Psychology (which education qualifies me for more salary than the scout execs)I know that most of you actually never gave to FOS before, but are now using this article to justify what has always been.

KC | 10:59 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Now I know why merit badge prices have soared in the last few years.

How do ask that much from people for free, only to get this kind of compensation?

BSA is a company? | 11:06 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

If they are going to run things like a company, with excessive executive salaries, the least they could do is modernize the program and get to where kids older than 13 like it.

Give it up on the uni's guys. Your killing us! Basketweaving is still a merit badge? Its time you guys woke up and got a program that gets us past the 1950's. What are you giong to do when the 60 and 70 year old supporters are gone?

Joe | 11:53 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Pyramid schemes are interesting.

Most politicians don't seek office for the money as much as power. Cheney took a pay cut.

Motivation is interesting.

Bob | 12:09 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

You don't have the complete picture of where all of the money goes. Google 'guidestar' and go to the site. Then, type in 'boy scout salt lake city council'. Once registered for free, click on form 990 to get the rest of the financial information.

Bob L | 5:26 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

To some of us in our council in California, FOS stands for Fund Our Salaries.

kip henrie | 8:15 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

i grew up in a scout family. i am a scout master and this blows my mind. this is a non-profit organization. i can guarantee i could find 1000 dedicated men that would do that job for 200k. this is absolutely unconscienable that 1000s of leaders on the front lines donate their time and money to a wonderful cause while the bigwigs up top are raking in that kind of dough. this has to change, PERIOD!

To: Good Laughs | 8:59 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

You questioning my donations would be like me questioning your PhD.

I'm a sitting COR and wrote my check for $100.00 within the last month. I begged others in the ward for over a month to participate. I collected nearly $3,000.00 for our ward which fell short of the "at least $10.00 a month from 60% of the ward" quota that was suggested.

For you to suggest that me or others who have concerns have "probably never given" is absurd.

By the way, my concern has less to do with the salary expose article than it does with my long-held belief that the church should not be doing the fund raising for BSA. The line of authority on the whole FOS is through the stake (because everyone knows that will increase participation). Soliciation for friends of scouting should not be done over the pulpit. BSA leaders & volunteers who would like to assist with FOS should take over this activity.

Chriss Pope | 10:02 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

I spend about 20 hours a week keeping up with all the "CYA" paper work and I get paid zilch!!! It's time that the Mormon church stand up, make their own program and leave the scouts in the dust. I am offended that the church would knowingly buy into such a top heavy organization.

KMN | 10:29 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

$200k per year is not that much for a CEO of any similar sized organization. If I had his responsibility, I would expect that much or more. Those who are going to cease contributing to one of the best organizations that society has created because of a CEO's salary had better start looking at where they spend the rest of their money. CEO's of ALL the organizations from which you buy the "staples of life" get paid significantly more than that. You buy video games, rent movies, consume soft drinks and particpate in other luxury activities that provide no moral outcomes. How much do you think the producers of these products make? And, how much do you spend on those items each year compared to scouting?

Next time you rent and movie or buy a soft drink, think about what you are really getting for your money.

Friend of Scouting | 10:56 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

This is a clasic example of the newspaper "creating news." This is a non-issue and has done a terrible disservice to scouting. Whether you believe it or not, the salaries are in line and appropriate for the service rendered. I GUARANTEE that you will not find another competent person that would do the job for less money. It just will not happen. Those of you who think you are that good should be making that amount where you are. If you are not, you are not that good.

I make nowhere near that salary but know that my salary is commensurate with what I have chosen for a career. I do not begrudge what another makes. If I want to make that sacrifice, I, too, could make that income.

My take has been the opposite on this issue. I am grateful there is a competent manager overseeing such a vast and significant program. I feel more comfortable than ever volunteering my time and donating to this great cause.

Those that feel otherwise are naive or covetous.

MJF | 11:24 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

I find it interesting how many people call for the LDS church to start a program that will compete with BSA. Do you not realize that the same leaders who are running this program ineffectively will run the "church" program as well. Success is about the commitment and excitment of the volunteers and not out of obligation to do a "calling". Scouts should not be forced on any boy but good volunteer leaders who care about Scouting find ways to make it successful and relevant for the boys. Anyone who is "called" who is not interested and does not want to commit to making the program successful should just say NO when called.

Separation of church and ..... | 11:37 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

I too think we should separate the BSA from Church YM programs. I'm very active, I support my leaders and I hold a calling that's very high profile in the church. Unfortunately, sometimes some programs get held onto because of tradition. I've always wondered why we still have Stake Lagoon Day. Why not "Stake Utah Symphony Day" or Stake This is the Place Heritage Park Day." I believe that it is one of those things that has been overlooked and at some point someone will say, hey, we're not going to do that anymore.
The same thing will happen with BSA. I also think one of the reasons the church hasn't pulled out is because BSA does well with some boys and they want to see it succeed. The day will come when the church will pull out and implement it's own program.

As for the salaries, I think that it is too much. I don't think many would begrudge 100K, but over double that is too much for a non-profit. And as for FOS, it's just plain wrong to have assesments. Let the professionals of BSA increase their other fundraising activities just like other non-profits.

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