Deseret News | Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid

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Scouts may be thrifty, but some leaders are well paid

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Norcal | 12:21 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Well this article just killed Friends of Scouting. Bummer.

Steve | 12:24 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

This is absolutely absurd.

The level of compensation exceeds what is available in most private corporations of similar size.

I have two boys in Scouting. But I will not be making further Friends of Scouting donations. I am appalled.

Diusgruntled Scout Master | 12:44 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I am a scout master in our area. I have a master's degree and about 15 years in Scouting. I spend about 9 hours a week for the boys, yet I am paid nothing for *my* time. To say that my time and experience are worth nothing while theirs is worth over $200,000 is an insult to me.
Let them pound the pavement doing Friends of Scouting from now on.

Comments continue below

Never liked Boy Scouts | 1:28 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I never liked Scouts when I was that age because I was forced to go. All I heard for years was 'Eagle Scout, get your Eagle Scout.' I do agree that this article has killed the Friends of Scouting campaign. My ward has been beating the streets for 2-3 weeks. Maybe now the LDS Church will see they have been duped.

Numbers game | 1:39 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

You should note that in every Mormon ward, EVERY boy aged 8 through 18 is registered in Scouting whether they're interested in Scouts or not. Many (a majority in the wards I've been in) have no interest in Scouting. So it becomes a weekly babysitting day where boys, who don't care for Scouting, just hang around and often get into mischief.

And then once a year, the poor Scout leaders have to figure how to pay for expensive camps, buy expensive badges and feed hungry Scouts. And then go door to door and beg for funds.

I've wondered how many boys would register if a) the program was voluntary and not mandated by the LDS church and b) parents ( or boys ) had to pony up the registration costs now 100% paid for by the LDS church.

Wowzer! | 1:42 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I have been "called" to be a scout leader several times. I have to manage kids who don't want to be there, beg parent involvement of parents who don't care if their kids participate, use my own truck to haul gear and pay my own gas. I get the "opportunity" to raise funds. Let's see....I have to figure out how to get funds for camps -- oh, and I have to take my vacation days to take kids camping because parents will not go with their kids. So every time I get "called" I figure on a big family budget hit, my truck gets damaged, and I have no vacation to spend with my own family. And for this, my pay is.....

1968 Eagle | 1:47 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Maybe the scouging "big business" is what's killing scouting?
When I was an avid scout kid in a state to the East of Utah, the boys in the troop wanted to be there and our parents were the leaders and TOOK us to camps. I remember time spend with my dad!
The only (ONLY) paid scout person was a lady who ran the office and managed the paperwork. The scout exec was a local business person who VOLUNTEERED as a way to help the community. His time was DONATED to the program and he was a very influential business leader and community leader -- and he cared enough to volunteer and use his community skills to help the program.

Scouting has become a BIG business -- and it seems, all about money and not about youth.

I need to find an all-volunteer community program to donate to. A group with focus toward people and not toward making money. (Have you ever priced scout uniforms and patches? It's costly)

Scouter | 1:51 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Scouting is no different than any other business.
Most CEO and presidents make huge sums of money and pay employees little. The boss gets the free trips to watch the Jazz or the Cougars. The boss gets the free dinners in the Jazz Sports Club. When the boss goes to lunch, it's on an expense account. When the boss visits his kids in Colorado, he stops in a related business so he can write off or expense the trip. The boss' cell phone is company paid. The company pays the boss parking space. The boss has little idea how his product is produced (in most cases). When the boss promises something to his board of directors, he is NEVER held accountable. If he leaves, he gets a LARGE bonus, no matter the performance or promises. The boss ALWAYS gets a huge annual bonus -- and usually never contributes to the product.
Scouting is no different. It's a business and it's big bucks.

Tenderfoot | 2:02 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

My boys did not like scouting, but they were registered anyway. Most of the boys didnt want to be scouts and the poor scoutmaster only lasted a year just herding boys each week. it was a waste of time and money and did very little to build character. i took my kids to camp and it was a horrible week trying to keep all the kids out of trouble because they had no interest in the "program" and were upset they "had" to go.

The local council may have big numbers, but the boys are not there because they want to be. If it were volunteer only, the numbers would be 100th of what they are now.

Anonymous | 2:07 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Powell, the retired executive from the Utah National Parks Council, said, "When people asked what I do, I said name any 10 careers and a Scout executive touches them."

He said that includes being an educator, human relations director, salesman, promoter, organizer, disciplinarian "and sometimes a security guard, a plumber, a custodian or a garbage man if that is what the job requires."

Sounds like about half of what a teacher does yet the teacher makes about one fourth of the salary.

I, too, stopped giving to friends of scouting this past year.

I just became disillusioned with the whole scout office. They keep dishing off their work on to us. Now they don't even do the merit badge paper work for us. We have to go online and try to navigate their horrible website while doing our "volunteer" work. My goodness what do the people in the office do?

By the way, I am a former scout master and our ward met the FOS quota each year. I have never heard of the 10% gold level discount. Where do they keep that secret?

Other programs? | 2:10 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

The News could do a great service by letting us know what other youth programs are out there without high-priced leaders. I feel that if everyone involved cares enough to volunteer, the primary purpose is the youth. When you care enough to give your very best -- your time -- the outcome is a better product. If the purpose is to make a buck, you don't care about the end product. Kids are not "products" or "programs"!!!

FOS Trailblazer | 2:22 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

It seems to me that Scouting has the same executive inflation which many have noted in industry. Their salaries, over time, have increased dramatically vis-a-vis the salaries of entry-level employees.

It is time for both industry and Scouting to bring their executive salaries down out of the stratosphere. There is no reason the chief executive's salary should be more than three times the entry-level employees'.

gutsy story | 2:24 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

My bishop is going to be really upset! For the News to write about a LDS church program, this is going to hurt the volunteer collection program. I'm going to say no this year when they ask me to help. I bet this story gets yanked!

Open Minded Thinker | 3:27 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

There is so much whine in here, where people are getting drunk on self pity.

Of course the scouting has aspects of it that are like a corporation. Would you really want a volunteer working 60+ hours per week at Paul Moore's professional Scout executive?

Steven says "The level of compensation exceeds what is available in most private corporations of similar size." Which survey did you read? I know a company of 13, in which three of them make more than Paul Moore does.

If you all complain loud enough, maybe you can force Paul Moore from his job and the Great Salt Lake Council can get a "real volunteer" to come in and screw up the job. Your whining, if successful, would only make scouting go backwards.

Amy | 4:38 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I have been a Cub Scout Committee Chairperson, Den Leader, and Cub Master. I put 150% into these "callings". You reap what you sow. Those years were a blast!!! Other volunteer positions were poorly staffed, so I planned the summer day camps, too. The spirit of scouting was alive in our little area. High attendance and constant advancements. Enthusiasm and preparation go a LONG way. I am a huge supporter of scouting. Someone has to be "on top", though. That is their career. Of course they need to be compensated. My husband was a DE (district executive) for a while. However, he made more money teaching, still with children, and he didn't have to spearhead fund raising! Yes, the popcorn is good, BUT....

Rick | 4:43 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Now it makes sense. I've always wondered why so we had to send so much money to the the BSA with little or zero return on investment. Although I had some nebulous idea of how much was wasted, I had no idea it was this bad.

There is absolutely no way that I will ever participate again in the form of donations. What a joke. I guess anybody can rationalize anything if they try hard enough.

Japan BSA | 4:47 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I agree the salaries are out of line. But after looking at the comments, I am surprised. I too have experienced the frustration of uninterested youth and parents. But the problem is not scouting the program. It is us. We have let out youth get too interested in TV, Games, Internet etc. Scouting provides balance and teaches important gospel principles to YM through its activities. It is easy to blame a system or others for the problems. When you think the problem is out there or someone else, you become the problem. Push for positive change, but do not criticize the program.

marcaz | 5:39 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Very said disclosure indeed. If this guy lived in NYC, then perhaps his six figure salary could be justified. But, in SLC, this salary is way above the norm. It's ridiculous and irresponsible on the part of the BSA

outdated | 5:44 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

The Boy Scout program is no longer effective in helping boys to stay out of trouble or learn skills that apply to life. Kids no longer need sheepshanks or half-hitches, they need to know about amortization and how to speak intelligently in a job interview.

Forcing kids to go to scouts doesn't help them in any way. It's time for the LDS Church to do the inevitable and transfer its resources to a program that is less bloated and more in tune with what kids need today. Let kids who want to be in scouts do so, and let the other kids learn life lessons other ways.

Bye Bye Boy Scouts Inc. | 6:30 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Every year I faithfully write a substantial check to support the Boy Scouts. After reading this article, I will NEVER donate another dollar to Friends of Scouting.

Mark | 6:32 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

You all should be ashamed of your negative comments. BSA has helped countless number of boys in so many ways. Having been a volunteer leader in BSA for over 20 years, I do not regret a single moment. I cant describe the feeling when a young man comes to me after he is married & having children, and expresses his appreciation for his experiences as a youth in our troop, and I can observe him for how he turned out when I may have had doubts when he was younger.

Anonymous | 6:34 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

For many years our troop has used non-BSA sites for summer camp. The boys have more fun, can do more merit badges, the food is edible and the cost is no where nearly as high.
Most of the 'expensive development' and camp maintenance is done by volunteers so you can cross that off the list.
Gee....

Pay them what they are worth | 6:39 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Why not pay them what they are worth? If they are doing an incredible job then they should be paid accordingly. There is a big difference between doing this part time as a volunteer and full time. I have done this part time in Logan as a volunteer and am amazed at how well things run.

Dewaine M. Brown | 6:41 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I am a former Boy Scout, Scoutmaster, Friends of Scouting VOLUNTEER. In a recent movie a statement was made. "There is nothing so strong as the HEART OF A VOLUNTEER." I feel these posted comments are rather affected by attitude. I am greatful for the training I received in Scout Leadership Training and Woodbadge. I worked through the years with hundreds of men in our Council. I saw all kinds of men. Disinterested leaders without training had disinterested boys. As a boy I was under two troops.
The first for 15 months and I had good advancement. The second with disinterested leaders and I had very little advancement. I did not get my Eagle. I have accumulated many stories of how being an Eagle
Scout help men obtain jobs and improve their careers. I also have stories of men who after Woodbadge training improved their education and careers from leadership skills they obtained. I also have one story of a leader who said, "I have made up my mind these boys are not interested." He was not interested himself. Is the posting of the late night 8 comments acutally made late night? Volunteers at late night? I don't know.

Florida Eagle | 6:46 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I for one have never given to FOS. I earned my Eagle in a SLC troop. This year is the first time I have ever even heard of FOS. My bishop who's son is in a another troop outside of the church does not agree with it,nor will he ask the members of our ward to donate. As far as boys in scouting, most are not interested due to the lack of parental support of the program. As far as leaders having to pay for everything, turn your receipts in and get reimbursed by the ward. That is the program. Scouts should have its own budget allocated to them,besides the young men's budget and with the size of wards in Utah, that should be substantial.

um, ok....... | 6:57 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

the problem when the boys come looking for donations, is we know who they are and we want to help them. sending them away empty handed is almost implying we dont care. too bad its not the executives that go door to door begging for money.

Rip Off | 7:07 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I couldn't believe what I just read. Both my boys became eagle scouts in Europe while we were stationed in Belgium. We did our own programs with no help from "The Council." Now, 25 years later, I still give more than asked for to "Friends of Scouting." NO MORE! Look at all those who donate time in the trenches, while those who sit in the office for a reported 80 hours per week, make $200,000 plus - a complete rip-off. Working so hard, how can they have time to spend that kind of money, Hah! The Church ought to pull out of scouting. I WILL!!

Dean of Ed. | 7:20 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Excellent article! It's always nice to know what the truth is. The fake tears at the end of the interview by Paul Moore were tears of probable and eventual loss.

What's next? | 7:23 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I would like to see a follow-up story on the Young Men's program that the LDS church created many years ago and then shelved because too many people wanted to keep the "tradition" of scouting. If we took the money and energy we spend trying to keep the national BSA happy (and well-paid), we could have an organization for our young men that would be incredible in making opportunities to provide powerful, meaningful service to the world and actually building character in our young men.

Good story | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Scouting shouldn't be compared with the inflated prices of corporate America because most of the funds generated in scouting are donations which makes it even worse of what we see in other corporations.

This article makes me sick and I will never donate to any scouting program every again.

Ex-Friend of Scouts | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

No more Friends of Scouts contributions from me. What benefits do we see from these professional scouters? Not much from what I can see. The penalty for not reaching quotas for their salaries goes right against the Scout Law. I'm boycotting the next Friends of Scouts drive.

Anonymous | 7:34 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Whether just culturally or instituitionally, the scouting program should not be so intertwined with the LDS church.

I believe it to be a huge conflict of interest to have ecclesiastical leaders "fund-raising" for this program (especially now, where we see that these funds go) and to "call" or basically require both children and adults to commit to this program.

The LDS church should make this program solely voluntary (and no, by the bishop "calling" someone to this position does not make it voluntary) and let those interested to participate in the program merely sign up and participate.

Underpaid | 7:35 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Mr. Moore works long hours and says he could go elsewhere for more money. Please go! Many of us work very long hours too and don't approach this amount. With all the experienced scouters in the valley, I'm sure BSA can find an honest, hard-working scouter who won't "rob" the unknowing Friends of Scouts contributor who are being strong-armed by leaders to contribute.

Dave | 7:40 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

The scouting propram ie no different than all the organizatione that ask for your donations. I am amazed that people continue to be so gullable.

Bollardo | 7:43 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Wow. Being in scouting for years - I've done what ever it takes to get the job done. Taken vacation time off work, camp outs, friends of scouting, scout camps, merit badges, etc.

I'm sorry but for a non-profit organization - that is way to much compensation. That was a great article. Something should be done.

one_teadher | 7:46 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

My husband and I are both Cub Scout Leaders. While I tend to agree that there is reason to question the salaries I also wonder at a second issue raised by the others posting here. I felt I had to comment on the boys not wanting to go. We are members of a community pack where all our boys are there by choice. They work hard, have lots of fun and are often hard to send home. They greatly enjoy being members of the pack. As a teacher the difference from the boys who want to be there and my students who must is amazing. If your boy isn't interested in the scout activities you might want to find out why.

Mustang | 7:46 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

While the objectives of Scouting are noble, this article exposes a huge problem with the LDS Church's association with the it. The compensation practice within the Scouting organization is a clear misuse of donations and once again calls into question, "what does the money I donate go towards?" With the legal issues already shadowing this program, this scandal seals the fact that this program needs to be purged and re-focused on the true purposes upon which it was founded. The LDS Church is the Scouting program's biggest financier. FOS uses high pressure fund raising tactics to preserve it's revenue and places an incredible burden upon the Wards of the LDS Church to accomplish it's goals. This article exposes very concerning behaviors and issues with the Scouting program that cannot be overlooked. It is incumbent upon all members of the LDS Faith to re-examine their relationship with the Scouting program and how they individually choose to support it. For me personally, I will no longer be donating to the FOS and will more generously donate to other areas within the LDS Church where I know how the funds will be used and not merely padding the pockets of overpaid non-profit executives.

Unbelievable | 7:49 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I have always refused to put money in the Friends of Scouting-envelope that our LDS ward "compels" you to fill. Instead I found ways to give it to support girls activities. Glad I did. I hope this article will be an eye-opener for many.

Anonymous | 7:55 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Not every ward in the Church automatically registers all boys for Cub/Boy Scouts. In fact, I've never seen that done outside Utah.

Get a grip people | 8:05 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I've been "called" to lead scouts at every level, and despite the fact I've never received a dime for it I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

But if I were *hired* by an organization to it *full time* then you're darn right I'd want to be well-compensated, or I wouldn't do the job.

Everyone thinks they're underpaid while everyone else is overpaid. I highly doubt that 99% of the people complaining about these salaries would turn down the job or return part of their paycheck.

No, they'd take it straight to the bank, because they'd believe they deserved it.

Anonymous | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Boy have things changed! I was raised as a scout execitives daughter and as I recalled we lived pay check to pay check. We lived in a small home. My parents bought groceries once a month. When the peanut butter and jelly was gone we would put Ketchup on our toast. We ate homemade bread, one gallon of milk was stretched to 4 with the addition of powder milk. We wore hand me downs till we were old enough to get a job. My dad worked hard at the office all day and at meetings somewhere most every night. He was an execitive about 35 years. Many of those in the great Salt lake council. Somewhere along the line something has gone real crazy in the last 30 years!

hombre de steele | 8:12 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

Excessive Compensation justified because they work hard? Give me a break! I used to give to Friends of Scouting, but not now!

you salary is donated | 8:14 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

My wife and I regularly donate 500 hours and about $500 dollars to BSA each ear. I didn't realize that my efforts included a 2% tax to fatten some Executive's pay. Yet another thing wrong with our society.

Anonymous | 8:15 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I did not donate this year...Now I think I made the right decision!

Finally! | 8:16 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I don't like what has happened to scouting. It was a good program when it started and did good things until the people at the top got greedy. He can get as teary eyed as he likes but that salary is WAY over the top for the amount of work he does. They don't train the volunteers like they should, they require all sorts of funds they do NOTHING to obtain and they stay as uninvolved in anything requiring actual work with the boys as possible. I have NEVER given money to the program and I never will. I am so GLAD Deseret News wrote this article!

The Girl Scout program is not any better.

YM Pres | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

PLEASE DUMP THE SCOUTING PROGRAM !

Duty to God and mutual nights are sufficient to meet the boys needs. In every ward I've been in the boys resist the scouting program. This article and blog prove that there's no interest at the grass roots level and it's a runaway train at Sr. Leadership levels.

Anonymous | 8:23 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

In the 70's I lived in Idaho and was trying to buy a home. However the new scout executive came in and paid cash. I found out he was making four times what I was as a medical rep. Perhaps executives in teaching and scouting better wake up before volunteers revolt and they have to work 200 hours a week to prove their worth.
WAKE UP PEOPLE OVER SCOUTING BEFORE IT'S TO LATE TO SAVE THIS GREAT PROGRAM.
Thank you Wayne.

Jealousy | 8:26 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

What good did this article do?

Not one mention of a better program.
No suggestions for improvement.

Just jealousy and dissatisfaction. Sounds like Ralph Nader.

Disappointed | 8:28 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

That's it...no more donations from this family. I've been a leader in the Scouting program for a long time and I'm finished. BSA's impact on our local unit is nill. Every year we get a higher quota for our Stake from BSA...for what? Our troop quit going to organized BSA scout camps because we were mistreated by the staff and disappointed in the programs. A self-organized camp has always been our best result. We don't need Mr. Moore for that....

Trent | 8:28 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007

I'm LDS and I've watched the young Women's program develop and flurish. I'm wondering when the LDS chuch will gracefully part from the Gluttenous scouting program and develop their own Young Men's program. I'm part of Scouting, and honestly need to try hard to keep my "game face" on for both the young men and the church leadership. I think they should hire someone at the church office building for $70 k a year and give them 2 years to develop a young men's program by leveraging other Church resourses and I think you'll find a much more meaningfull program.

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