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Boosting ranks of teachers
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Janey | 1:43 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Didn't the legislature recently get us all excited about giving the
teacher's a pay raise and then said,"Oopsy, sorry we can't pay
you what we promised. We made a teensy mistake in the budget. We know you
wouldn't really want to deny us our trip to China or all the wonderful
perks we get. Thank you for being so understanding. We love you!"
One ridiculous suggestion | 2:16 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
They are basically saying, "O.K. teachers, work year round now and maybe
you can get the same pay you can make in neighboring states that still are on a
traditional 9 month school year."
How slow are the people on this committee?
I asked a couple of teachers about this year round deal. Everyone of them basically said, "I can't take teaching year round. I have to have some time without having a kid in my face. If I had to work year round I would LEAVE THE PROFESSION!"
Now I know that will trigger some, "I work year round so they should too" comments but it isn't the same. We will have more teacher burnout and even less people in the profession if this were to happen.
Most teachers would love to work year round as long as some of that summer time doesn't involve students and the worries that come with them.
In fact I think the LDS seminary teachers started doing this a while back. They work in the summer and get paid for setting up the curriculum for the coming year.
The committee members really need to get a clue!
How slow are the people on this committee?
I asked a couple of teachers about this year round deal. Everyone of them basically said, "I can't take teaching year round. I have to have some time without having a kid in my face. If I had to work year round I would LEAVE THE PROFESSION!"
Now I know that will trigger some, "I work year round so they should too" comments but it isn't the same. We will have more teacher burnout and even less people in the profession if this were to happen.
Most teachers would love to work year round as long as some of that summer time doesn't involve students and the worries that come with them.
In fact I think the LDS seminary teachers started doing this a while back. They work in the summer and get paid for setting up the curriculum for the coming year.
The committee members really need to get a clue!
Comments continue below
Boost teacher morale? | 3:00 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
How is asking teachers to work year round for the same pay they can get in other
states, while working the traditional 9 month schedule, going to attract more
teachers to Utah?
It won't. It will just be seen as one more reason not to come work here.
Let's face it Sen. Stephenson. The way to attract more teachers here is to pay more than other states for the same work.
I know that is hard for our legislators to come to grips with. They keep saying, "lets find some creative ways to improve education."
We don't need creativity. We just have to bite the bullet and actually pay them more. From what I have seen a $15,000 a year raise for beginning teachers should pretty much take care of the problem.
We have the money. We have the need. Let's put the money where the need is.
Is that so hard to figure out? It is what the public says they want time after time. Yet the legislators STILL don't get it.
JUST PAY THEM MORE AND THEY WILL COME!
It won't. It will just be seen as one more reason not to come work here.
Let's face it Sen. Stephenson. The way to attract more teachers here is to pay more than other states for the same work.
I know that is hard for our legislators to come to grips with. They keep saying, "lets find some creative ways to improve education."
We don't need creativity. We just have to bite the bullet and actually pay them more. From what I have seen a $15,000 a year raise for beginning teachers should pretty much take care of the problem.
We have the money. We have the need. Let's put the money where the need is.
Is that so hard to figure out? It is what the public says they want time after time. Yet the legislators STILL don't get it.
JUST PAY THEM MORE AND THEY WILL COME!
Phil | 3:17 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Utah has always had too many teacher. Even with the utah college teaching
programs scaring away future teachers. So what has changed. Cost of living.
It is not math teachers that are in shortage, it is well Jordan school district.
I believe Salt Lake county will have a hard time finding new teachers. Only
way a new teacher could afford to live in Salt Lake valley is to rent.
Phil | 3:23 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I do know teachers in Salt Lake county who got good deals on homes through some
teacher home buying program. I don't know if people know about that, if
things like that are well know that would might attack more teachers.
Kevin | 3:31 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Most Teachers I know Start in mid august and go to mid june thats 10 months if
you add 4 weeks of vacation that most people get in other professions they are
pretty close to working year round now
Anonymous | 7:13 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Teaching is a demanding profession because it is so intensely people-oriented.
Today teachers are required to also be social workers, mothers and fathers
within tight societal constraints upon discipline. I sympathize with them. My
father was a teacher. But it is also a job. Wages for them ARE too low, but
benefits are high. How many jobs offer three month vacations? Or protection from
layoffs through tenure? They do work at home, but many in the work force are
required to work a lot of overtime. It is not unreasonable to bring up their
long vacation times,their teacher preparation days, etc.
Sally | 7:42 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I am a Kindergarten teacher beginning my 4th year of teaching, and I would JUMP
at the chance to raise my salary 40-60 percent. Many of my colleagues already
work year round, as we all teach summer school, etc. We love the board of
regent's idea!
Kevin of Arkansas | 7:45 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I am a biologist and will soon have a master's degree. As part of my
master's degree program, I taught college introductory biology courses. Yet
I am unqualified to teach at Utah schools because I do not have a teaching
certificate. It would take me an additional year or two of school to get one.
Science curriculums are rigorous enough that it is a burden getting the
additional teaching certificate and teacher salaries do not compensate for this
extra education. I would probably be interested in teaching as a career option
but I have no interest in getting a teaching certificate because of the
additional educational requirement. I do not think my situation is unique. It is
the teaching certificate requirement that prevents science majors from persuing
a career in education. If they want more science teachers perhaps altering the
teaching certificate requirements would be prudent.
Clare | 9:54 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Dear Anonymous,
Just so you know, as I'm a teacher I do get almost three months off, but I am not paid for it, so how is it a vacation like other jobs? I actually get three days of personal leave each year, plus sick leave. As for preparation days, teachers teach the kids longer every day to make up for the time they don't get paid for on prep day. There are a lot of misunderstandings out there about the actual benefits of the teaching profession. As for the high benefits, we'd better receive it or at least half of the teachers, including me, would quit. These benefits help make up for our poor pay and difficult job demands. We are also losing a lot of our good benefits because of monetary issues.
Just so you know, as I'm a teacher I do get almost three months off, but I am not paid for it, so how is it a vacation like other jobs? I actually get three days of personal leave each year, plus sick leave. As for preparation days, teachers teach the kids longer every day to make up for the time they don't get paid for on prep day. There are a lot of misunderstandings out there about the actual benefits of the teaching profession. As for the high benefits, we'd better receive it or at least half of the teachers, including me, would quit. These benefits help make up for our poor pay and difficult job demands. We are also losing a lot of our good benefits because of monetary issues.
RMW | 9:56 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Will implementing a year-round teaching program to boost salaries help address
the teacher shortage? I say no. I think it will cause MORE teachers to leave
than it would attract.
Even on the 9 month program, teacher burn-out is a huge issue. There are many high-stress elements to teaching and the loads teachers have here in Utah adds to that.
I have talked to many teachers about the concept of "year-round" employment and the vast majority do not want to participate. Most feel worn-down and stressed with just nine months of employment. Most want "recovery" time. Most feel they would be far less effective if they had to teach year-round.
I think the better way to keep teachers and attract new teachers is to address the conditions of teaching here in Utah. Lower class sizes are needed as well as an increase in support staff and funds for supplies. I would extend contracts slightly to require additional planning times and trainings.
I think giving teachers a 10-month contract with better conditions and built-in planning and training times and allowing them the other two months to rejuvenate would be far more effective in keeping and attracting teachers.
Even on the 9 month program, teacher burn-out is a huge issue. There are many high-stress elements to teaching and the loads teachers have here in Utah adds to that.
I have talked to many teachers about the concept of "year-round" employment and the vast majority do not want to participate. Most feel worn-down and stressed with just nine months of employment. Most want "recovery" time. Most feel they would be far less effective if they had to teach year-round.
I think the better way to keep teachers and attract new teachers is to address the conditions of teaching here in Utah. Lower class sizes are needed as well as an increase in support staff and funds for supplies. I would extend contracts slightly to require additional planning times and trainings.
I think giving teachers a 10-month contract with better conditions and built-in planning and training times and allowing them the other two months to rejuvenate would be far more effective in keeping and attracting teachers.
Frank | 10:01 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
When my wife's school was year-round, the parents had a fit. They
didn't like it at all, and eventually the school was forced to go off of
it. Now Davis County has all but eliminated year-round school despite the
massive population growth still in progress.
So to make the argument that teachers should teach year-round is politically unsustainable because of parents.
So to make the argument that teachers should teach year-round is politically unsustainable because of parents.
RMW | 10:06 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
The other aspect about "year-round" employment for teachers that many
people forget about is that such a schedule would require STUDENTS to attend
during the summer.
On paper, the three semester system looks great. Parents would choose two out of the three semesters for their children to attend. Teachers would teach all three semesters. But most of the parents I talked to would want to choose the fall and spring semesters and NOT the summer.
So, not only are the majority of teachers against the year-round system because of burn-out concerns, but the majority of parents are also against such a dramatic change to their family schedules.
If a vote (not referendum, please) would be conducted, I sure the Utah communities would vote "no" on year-round schools.
On paper, the three semester system looks great. Parents would choose two out of the three semesters for their children to attend. Teachers would teach all three semesters. But most of the parents I talked to would want to choose the fall and spring semesters and NOT the summer.
So, not only are the majority of teachers against the year-round system because of burn-out concerns, but the majority of parents are also against such a dramatic change to their family schedules.
If a vote (not referendum, please) would be conducted, I sure the Utah communities would vote "no" on year-round schools.
Kev of ArKansas | 10:07 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Huge difference between teaching a classroom of motivated college students
paying their own tuition and a classroom of 7th grader who really don't
want to be there. There are many strategies for teaching reading, writing,
learning, motivation, classroom management etc that having a masters degree in
biology just will not prepare you for.
Good luck with that "no interest in getting a teaching certificate" thing. No teacher was excited about it, but I'll bet if you poll your friends who are teachers, 98% would suggest you don't try it without it.
Regarding year round for the same pay as teachers teachinging out of state: teaching that ten months is not a marathon, it is a sprint. You use the restroom every 50 minutes and it is hurried, you eat in 35 minutes, you have to be on top of what 30+ children are doing bell to bell, and the bell rings and 30+ more walk in.
What I am saying is there are not alot of easy answers. I suggest the Legislators ask teachers what they think would help us prevent a teacher shortage instead of running in with their own agendas just to say they tried.
Good Luck Though
Good luck with that "no interest in getting a teaching certificate" thing. No teacher was excited about it, but I'll bet if you poll your friends who are teachers, 98% would suggest you don't try it without it.
Regarding year round for the same pay as teachers teachinging out of state: teaching that ten months is not a marathon, it is a sprint. You use the restroom every 50 minutes and it is hurried, you eat in 35 minutes, you have to be on top of what 30+ children are doing bell to bell, and the bell rings and 30+ more walk in.
What I am saying is there are not alot of easy answers. I suggest the Legislators ask teachers what they think would help us prevent a teacher shortage instead of running in with their own agendas just to say they tried.
Good Luck Though
Anonymous | 11:04 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
The legislature is finally figuring out that teachers don't want to stay in
Utah to work with 40 students or more in their classrooms for terribly low pay
and decreasing benefits.
As a teacher I'd rather have more pay period. I don't want to teach extra to increase my salary, I have other jobs to compensate my income already that are a "break from teaching."
Yes, working with other people's children is rewarding but difficult. Year round teaching will just bring more teacher burnout. I taught summer school for several years and after a while it wore me out emotionally. My verve picked up when I took a break to do something else. Teachers should get 20% raises based on what they teach now.
Regarding Merit Pay. Does that mean if I'm lucky to have AP students and they do well, I get more pay? Should my Physics teacher that teaches 15 kids per class get more pay than I do since I teach Government with 40 kids and Physics is deemed "more important"? Is my merit pay based on test results so I should hope that I teach in an affluent school with no ESL students?
As a teacher I'd rather have more pay period. I don't want to teach extra to increase my salary, I have other jobs to compensate my income already that are a "break from teaching."
Yes, working with other people's children is rewarding but difficult. Year round teaching will just bring more teacher burnout. I taught summer school for several years and after a while it wore me out emotionally. My verve picked up when I took a break to do something else. Teachers should get 20% raises based on what they teach now.
Regarding Merit Pay. Does that mean if I'm lucky to have AP students and they do well, I get more pay? Should my Physics teacher that teaches 15 kids per class get more pay than I do since I teach Government with 40 kids and Physics is deemed "more important"? Is my merit pay based on test results so I should hope that I teach in an affluent school with no ESL students?
Mike | 11:09 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Oh, well. I guess as a non-teacher state employee I can count on another year
of hearing the crying about how little the teachers make while I get no raise.
I think this would be year number 4 if I am not mistaken. And before people
tell me to go get another job take a moment to think how much you would enjoy
driving on dirt roads again. Hey legislature, there are more than teachers
under the state system that would like the occasional raise too!
A different Mike | 11:28 a.m. Nov. 11, 2007
I agree with with Stephenson, and I quote:
"We need highly qualified people in classrooms who will really teach and inspire these kids to seek careers in those fields � it takes someone with real passion to inspire them to go into math and science fields,"
With one important change though:
"We need highly qualified parents in the home who will really teach and inspire these kids to seek careers in those fields � it takes someone with real passion to inspire them to go into math and science fields,"
The weakness in our school system is not in the
school it is in the home.
Yes I am a school teacher.
"We need highly qualified people in classrooms who will really teach and inspire these kids to seek careers in those fields � it takes someone with real passion to inspire them to go into math and science fields,"
With one important change though:
"We need highly qualified parents in the home who will really teach and inspire these kids to seek careers in those fields � it takes someone with real passion to inspire them to go into math and science fields,"
The weakness in our school system is not in the
school it is in the home.
Yes I am a school teacher.
Grandmother | 12:23 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Teachers are sick of being blamed for everything that is wrong with schools and
student learning.
Teachers have NO power in the school system. They must teach to that giant stack of standardized tests given each year.
Teachers must teach and inspire every student who walks through the door. This may number 40 or more. They may vary from non-readers to Sterling Scholars to students released from jail just yesterday.
Did you do know that special education students must now take standardized tests at their calendar age and grade? Never mind that they may be non-readers or reading at a 3rd or 4th grade level. Very inspiring!
Aren't parents supposed to do anything? Like get their kids to school on time, see that they do their homework, insist that they behave in class, get them to bed by 9 or 10!
Aren't students responsible for any part of their own learning?
Wishy, washy legislature.
Crazy thinking at the State Department of Education.
District administrators who think that taxpayer money is their own. District administrators who, without skill, unashamedly micromanage schools.
So, you think money is the only problem?
So, you have a teacher shortage?
Can't imagine that.
Teachers have NO power in the school system. They must teach to that giant stack of standardized tests given each year.
Teachers must teach and inspire every student who walks through the door. This may number 40 or more. They may vary from non-readers to Sterling Scholars to students released from jail just yesterday.
Did you do know that special education students must now take standardized tests at their calendar age and grade? Never mind that they may be non-readers or reading at a 3rd or 4th grade level. Very inspiring!
Aren't parents supposed to do anything? Like get their kids to school on time, see that they do their homework, insist that they behave in class, get them to bed by 9 or 10!
Aren't students responsible for any part of their own learning?
Wishy, washy legislature.
Crazy thinking at the State Department of Education.
District administrators who think that taxpayer money is their own. District administrators who, without skill, unashamedly micromanage schools.
So, you think money is the only problem?
So, you have a teacher shortage?
Can't imagine that.
tom | 12:25 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Maybe we could turn around some of the wonderful things the legislature (and
national legislature)has done over the last decade.
No Child Left Behind is an onerous program that requires significant inroads into teaching time through required testing.
More difficulty in keeping a teaching certificate as mothers leave the profession to pursue family goals. Some would come back but their license has expired - and they need twice as much recertification credit at their own expense.
No raises every year the budget is tight. I think I counted five years without raises at the end of my teaching experience.
The Legislature has supported moves to support three school systems - charter schools, public schools and school vouchers at times when there wasn't money to support one school system.
More lumping in of funds into one fund, putting pressure on districts to redistribute money away from teachers and towards other critical needs. This has made it easier for the legislature to "we gave teachers 5% (thru increase of the wpu) but never reached the pockets of the teahcers.
No Child Left Behind is an onerous program that requires significant inroads into teaching time through required testing.
More difficulty in keeping a teaching certificate as mothers leave the profession to pursue family goals. Some would come back but their license has expired - and they need twice as much recertification credit at their own expense.
No raises every year the budget is tight. I think I counted five years without raises at the end of my teaching experience.
The Legislature has supported moves to support three school systems - charter schools, public schools and school vouchers at times when there wasn't money to support one school system.
More lumping in of funds into one fund, putting pressure on districts to redistribute money away from teachers and towards other critical needs. This has made it easier for the legislature to "we gave teachers 5% (thru increase of the wpu) but never reached the pockets of the teahcers.
Joe | 12:50 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Teachers need to quit whining about "how un-appreciated" they are.
There job is NOT that awe inspiring. What 25% of all graduates last year failed
the required test, but got their deploma anyway? What job out there can have a
more than 25% failure rate and still expect to be treated with quiet reverence?
None. Teachers, do your job and be happy or get out of the profession, your not
that special!
The real Truth (Shortages) | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Teacher Shortage?
That isn't entirely true. We have more candidates in elementary than positions available. Either they aren't being hired (principals do the hiring) or they are opting to leave the profession.
This year Granite finished hiring before the school year started and Alpine had over 100 candidates they didn't hire. Jordan was where they traditionally are with hiring at the beginning of the school year. All three districts could not fill Special education. They had some openings in the Sciences and Math in secondary as well.
We have a 'critical area' of teacher shortage, and have always had that is Special education.
I would not recommend teaching as a profession to anyone. I graduated in 2001 hearing about shortages, and feeling that I would not go through periods of unemployment and I would have my choice of jobs. I interviewed at a school that had over 500 candidates when it opened---Daybreak in South Jordan. The field is quite competitive.
I would gladly take an 'extended' contract if I ever were to be offered it. Administrators just don't like offering them because it takes a whole grade usually to make it work.
That isn't entirely true. We have more candidates in elementary than positions available. Either they aren't being hired (principals do the hiring) or they are opting to leave the profession.
This year Granite finished hiring before the school year started and Alpine had over 100 candidates they didn't hire. Jordan was where they traditionally are with hiring at the beginning of the school year. All three districts could not fill Special education. They had some openings in the Sciences and Math in secondary as well.
We have a 'critical area' of teacher shortage, and have always had that is Special education.
I would not recommend teaching as a profession to anyone. I graduated in 2001 hearing about shortages, and feeling that I would not go through periods of unemployment and I would have my choice of jobs. I interviewed at a school that had over 500 candidates when it opened---Daybreak in South Jordan. The field is quite competitive.
I would gladly take an 'extended' contract if I ever were to be offered it. Administrators just don't like offering them because it takes a whole grade usually to make it work.
term limits | 1:41 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Maybe Sen. Howard Stephenson could get into the public school system as a
teacher and find out just how inspiring the Milton Friedman philosophies that he
spews from the senate are in a public classroom with 40+ kids in it. Of course
he would not recieve any merit pay for this. How about term limits for
legislators instead of career politicians that whore themselves out for special
interests. i am sure that the statisticians at the Utah Taxpayers Assn. would
make great math teachers.
Stewart | 3:41 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Businesses know that due to the laws of supply and demand that if they have a
problem attracting qualified employees that they simply have to pay a higher
wage and or benefits. It appears that many don't believe that the laws of
supply and demand should operate where teachers are concerned, and believe that
teachers should work for lower wages because they love their work and get a
longer summer vacation. Well, times are a changing. This year Gov. Huntsman had
to help some districts find elementary teachers by recruiting in Mexico, and
giving out H-1B visas. I guess that is one way to continue to depress wages, and
still meet the requirements of the law of supply and demand.
GeoEducator | 3:55 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
My suggestions to improve public education: 1) Raise pay significantly to
attract better qualified teachers. 2) Simultaneously raise accreditation
standards to weed out the MANY incompetent teachers now in the system. 3)
Change laws so principals can fire teachers who are incompetent, who do strange
things in the classroom, or who annoy parents & students--tenure should be
on a year-by-year evaluation. In short, turn the teaching profession into a
competitive, desirable profession comparable to the private sector.
Ed | 4:11 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
If districts want better and more experienced teachers, they should allow
teacher years to be transfered. Instead, a teacher with 10 or 15 years
experience is only paid for up to five years of experience when applying for a
job in another district. I have never heard of any other profession that takes
away experience when transferring to another company. It keeps many good
teachers from moving to Utah.
Robo | 4:41 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
RMW - address the working conditions? You're making too much sense there.
That might actually help attract more teachers. GRANDMOTHER - it's the
parent's and kid's responsibility to participate in the learning
process? Whoa, you're making too much sense also. That would actually
help no child be left behind.
ex. ed, | 5:00 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Geo Educator hit it right on the nose.
1. Raise pay
2. Get rid of tenure.
I would like to add a third.
3. Realize that little certificate does not mean you are a great teacher. I have seen several districts hire competent individuals that have never before taken education classes. Those who have passion for their particular profession can motivate students like no other. One of the best science/math teachers I have seen did not have a certificate but did have many years in the field as a Petroleum Engineer.
1. Raise pay
2. Get rid of tenure.
I would like to add a third.
3. Realize that little certificate does not mean you are a great teacher. I have seen several districts hire competent individuals that have never before taken education classes. Those who have passion for their particular profession can motivate students like no other. One of the best science/math teachers I have seen did not have a certificate but did have many years in the field as a Petroleum Engineer.
Almost | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
GeoEducator, you've got it almost right. It should be school boards that
fire incompetent teachers not principals. Most of the people who are principals
are people who couldn't make it in the classroom so they went back and
piled it higher and deeper to get an admin certificate. Some are certifiable
loonies and shouldn't be there themselves. With regard to having parent
input on firing teachers, that's a great idea if you can figure out how to
factor out unfounded gossip started by junior high school students and
perpetuated by the local women's relief group.
RMW | 5:32 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
The problem with firing teachers is that we have to HIRE teachers to replace
them. That is difficult when there's a teacher shortage.
If we want to improve the quality of teachers, we need to improve the supply. When there's greater choice, the highest quality is hired. When there's not much of a choice, they hire what they can get.
It all comes down to making the teaching profession attractive so we can be picky about who teaches in our classrooms.
If we want to improve the quality of teachers, we need to improve the supply. When there's greater choice, the highest quality is hired. When there's not much of a choice, they hire what they can get.
It all comes down to making the teaching profession attractive so we can be picky about who teaches in our classrooms.
Marvin Wharton | 5:47 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
For 20 plus years now I have been sick of hearing about the poor teachers.
Please fired them all and start over again.
Please fired them all and start over again.
Anonymous | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
You're right. There are MANY incompetent teachers out there NOW. But raise
accreditation standards, AGAIN? I just finished the 5-year teaching program at
USU and it was pretty rigorous once "No Child Left Behind" passed.
I had to:
1) Pass all of their core curriculum with a C or better (for me this included classes full of pre-med and pre-dental students)
2) Pass various backround checks just to be considered for the University's teaching program
3) Once admitted to the program, I had to take 2-3 semesters of classes geared toward the "touchy-feely" part of teaching
4) Pay for and pass a national test that deemed me "highly competent" in science, apparently passing grades were not enough.
5) Pay for and pass ANOTHER national test that deems you "highly competent" in classroom management skills
6) And now for 3 years I will be checked up on by administrators, who will one day find that I am a teacher worth having at their school.
I love teaching. But I wish national and state legislatures would stop making it harder and harder to get a teaching degree.
I had to:
1) Pass all of their core curriculum with a C or better (for me this included classes full of pre-med and pre-dental students)
2) Pass various backround checks just to be considered for the University's teaching program
3) Once admitted to the program, I had to take 2-3 semesters of classes geared toward the "touchy-feely" part of teaching
4) Pay for and pass a national test that deemed me "highly competent" in science, apparently passing grades were not enough.
5) Pay for and pass ANOTHER national test that deems you "highly competent" in classroom management skills
6) And now for 3 years I will be checked up on by administrators, who will one day find that I am a teacher worth having at their school.
I love teaching. But I wish national and state legislatures would stop making it harder and harder to get a teaching degree.
parent | 6:41 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
As a parent, I want class sizes reduced, which in and of itself would attract
more teachers. I was told there is some sacred ratio that the school districts
have to abide by, and even if more money were given to public schools it
wouldn't be allocated to reduce class sizes. This is crazy. I agree with
RMW, and Geo.
Competent vs Common Sense | 6:49 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
When I started teaching in the Ogden District several years back, we needed
another elective in our middle school. I volunteered to teach Japanese. I
started with about 10 kids in the class. 2 years later I had 35 in the class and
others had to be turned away because there was no more room. It was not an easy
class to say the least. I was then told by the "state" that I was 2
credits short of an endorsement to make me "fully" qualified. I had 21
credits in Japanese and I needed 23. The two credits I needed included learning
another 3500 kanji (written japanese), which I'm sure middle school
students really needed. To make a long story short, I told them to stick it and
taught another section dealing with my regular degree. I would have been more
than happy to have one of the "People that knows" come into my class
and evaluate whether or not I was highly qualified for a middle school japanese
class. Most of the time, the state just needs to butt out and let building
administrators make the decisions they are trained to make.
Former Utah Teacher | 7:07 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
If you want to know what would keep teachers in Utah--teaching--then TREAT THEM
LIKE YOU WANT TO KEEP THEM!!!!! The amount of teacher abuse and bullying that
occurs in Utah (and nationwide) is unbelievable. The public just doesn't
realize it, cause it's not published (the news organizations are afraid of
the large districts in Utah). Not only that, but then that treatment is
reinforced by poor treatment by the state's media, legislature, and public.
I left Utah, yes, because my pay was insanely low--especially compared to cost
of living in the Salt Lake Valley; yes, because I was expected to spend
thousands of dollars a year on my classroom; and yes, because of all the other
stresses you have all mentioned. But, the number one reason I left was
because--I was an abused teacher. I worked countless hours, constantly
increasing my education and abilities--and yet was spied on by administrators
and other "professionals" in the school, put down, complained, refused
rewards, etc. I was treated like crap!!!! And, worse things that I won't
discuss--all because I was doing my job, and doing it well. If you want to keep
teachers in Utah--demand that they are treated well!!!!!!!!!!
Miike in Lehi | 7:26 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Years ago I worked as a camp counselor/director and I would love to teach. I
have years of experience with math and computers... Sadly I can't support a
family on a teacher�s salary. I don't want to get
rich, but making enough money to survive would be nice. I'll take a pay cut
if you will increase the teacher base pay.
Teaching Realities | 7:43 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
As a teacher, I currently have 3 part time jobs, just to make ends meet. I could
only imagine if someday I only needed 2 to make ends meet.
The only reason I stay in education is, I do love teaching.
But if you average the pay increase and the reduction of benefits I have averaged about a 3% pay deduction every year. Last year was the first year we did not get a reduction in health care insurance in 4 years.
I have not even factored in the cost of living. The pay raises are not even close to keeping up with inflation when we lose benefits, I know we will lose insurance benefits this year.
This makes teaching an attractive career, I have no idea why we are having a hard time finding and retaining teachers?
The only reason I stay in education is, I do love teaching.
But if you average the pay increase and the reduction of benefits I have averaged about a 3% pay deduction every year. Last year was the first year we did not get a reduction in health care insurance in 4 years.
I have not even factored in the cost of living. The pay raises are not even close to keeping up with inflation when we lose benefits, I know we will lose insurance benefits this year.
This makes teaching an attractive career, I have no idea why we are having a hard time finding and retaining teachers?
Once and for all | 7:50 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Get off the class size reduction, if I had a choice between 24 kids and a
decent pay increase, I'll take the pay increase any day!
Things Aren't Looking Good | 8:01 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
How to attract quality teachers? Screen them well to begin with and weed out the
bad ones. Treat the good ones with respect. As a veteran teacher (26 years of
experience) I have seen working conditions and benefits steadily decline -
thanks but no thanks to the State Legislature and Jordan District Board of
Education. With the split of Jordan district, our salaries are only guaranteed
for one year after the split. Then I'm sure salaries and benefits will go
to the basement.
I agree with the writer who said that teachers should be able to freely transfer from district to district without being penalized for experience. School districts really don't want the more experienced folks. They don't want to pay for an experienced teacher when they can hire two new college grads that will teach for a couple of years and then leave to raise a family. Districts say they want to retain teachers, but that is lip service only. Money is the only thing that really matters to districts - not quality teachers.
I agree with the writer who said that teachers should be able to freely transfer from district to district without being penalized for experience. School districts really don't want the more experienced folks. They don't want to pay for an experienced teacher when they can hire two new college grads that will teach for a couple of years and then leave to raise a family. Districts say they want to retain teachers, but that is lip service only. Money is the only thing that really matters to districts - not quality teachers.
Elizabeth | 10:26 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
Thanks to GRANDMOTHER for putting it all in a nutshell. I'm a retired
teacher and would NEVER go back and do it again for all the $$$ in the world!
Huge class loads, undisciplined, disrespectful students and undisciplined,
disrespectful parents. Ever see an enraged parent throw chairs around a
classroom because their child got a B rather than an A? On top of that,
don't expect any support from the administration! They may even require
you to change the grade!!! Please and placate those kids and parents... no
matter what! It's crazy! Anyone who wants to remain in their right mind
would NEVER teach...no matter how gifted and capable they are! No! More $$$ for
teachers is only a VERY SMALL part of the problem in Utah schools!
Curtis Blanco | 10:40 p.m. Nov. 11, 2007
One of the major focuses powerful lobbying group the Utah Tax Payers association
has been in the past many years to keep teacher pay low. Now the chickens are
coming home to roost. I wish they would see that investing in education is a
good investment not an expense to be avoided. Teachers on the other hand think
small class sizes are a plus. In the Orient they have proven that students can
learn very well with class sizes of 40 or 50. Once you get past about 10, it
doesn't matter much anyway. Individual attention can't be given. The
teachers have to give, the taxpayers association has to give.
Yorgus | 12:35 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
Dear Kev of Arkansas,
I have a BS in biology & chemistry, and a master's degree too. I also have 20 years of teaching experience.
There is a lot more to being a competent science teacher than merely possessing a master's degree. You may know the science, you may do fine in a college classroom, but those classes in pedagogy, educational psychology and classroom management make the differenced between a good scientist and a good science teacher. Folks like you who wnat into the classroom without the instructional foundation are the first to quit when the going gets tough.
On another note, starting pay for a 9-month contract, BS/BA degree is about $29,000. Next door in Wyoming, starting pay is $43,000. There is no income tax in Wyoming. Will Sen. Stephenson help us compete with that?
I have a BS in biology & chemistry, and a master's degree too. I also have 20 years of teaching experience.
There is a lot more to being a competent science teacher than merely possessing a master's degree. You may know the science, you may do fine in a college classroom, but those classes in pedagogy, educational psychology and classroom management make the differenced between a good scientist and a good science teacher. Folks like you who wnat into the classroom without the instructional foundation are the first to quit when the going gets tough.
On another note, starting pay for a 9-month contract, BS/BA degree is about $29,000. Next door in Wyoming, starting pay is $43,000. There is no income tax in Wyoming. Will Sen. Stephenson help us compete with that?
James | 7:52 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
I posted this on the other website, but I feel the need to say it again...The
majority of the public does not know that the "raises" promised by the
state legislature last year still has not been delivered because of an
accounting error by the legislature. I know that type of accounting error does
not happen when it comes to their salaries from the state. Put the money where
it was originally promised republican majority! They are your kids too and the
right thing to do is to follow through on your promises. Isn't that what we
are taught? Or are politicians exempt from morals and ethics? Pay the teachers
what they are worth and listen to the public!
E | 11:51 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007
One way to keep teachers would be to have administrators treat them with
respect. As a teacher and talking to other teachers, none of us remember one
administrator ever saying "good job" or asking if they could do
anything to help out.
sacred ratio | 9:21 p.m. Nov. 12, 2007
to parent at 6:41...
That sacred ratio of students to teachers is 24.875, average for a school.
More or less, and the principal and district juggle teachers and classes until it fits.
That sacred ratio of students to teachers is 24.875, average for a school.
More or less, and the principal and district juggle teachers and classes until it fits.
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