Comments about ‘Utah voucher war shows progressives need new label’

"teachers unions, whose idea of progress is the preservation of the status quo"

Well put.

Mr. Will says it all, and says it well. I hope everybody who plans to vote reads this one. This truly is a vote with consequences that reach beyond our little Wasatch Front.

Vote for 1. The nation is counting on it!

Every Utahn should read Mr. Will's commentary before they vote. Once again, he hits the nail on the head.

Based on his numbers and 'facts', it's obvious that this guy's only heard one side of the argument...
Go ahead. Count the number of wrong facts he stated.

I love George Will, one of the great intellectuals of our age. This column is right on. And this is not someone that can be easily pushed aside using the fear-based arguments of voucher opponents such as wanting to teach religion to our students or getting a perk for the wealthy. He has no vested interest. Unlike the NEA/UEA on the one side or Parents for Choice on the other, he is an independent observer with no special interest in the outcome.

Three comments:

First, the supply and demand of private school education in Utah is already in perfect balance. Anybody who wants to purchase a private education is free to do so. Its not the governments fault if somebody cant afford it. If Will were consistent, hed argue that the government should give everybody a Mercedes voucher to enable the demand of Mercedes to match the supply.

Second, he overstates the cost savings to schools. The public schools would in fact save the MARGINAL COST of educating each student who goes to a private school BECAUSE OF the voucher. What the marginal cost is depends upon the budgeting horizon. Will says that the state will save $5,500 per student, plus millions in school construction expenses. That is just false; the $5,500 already includes the savings associated with construction expenses.

Third, he misrepresents voucher opponents. Few teachers are scared of competition and fewer care about how much money the union rakes. Generally, voucher opponents believe in the social value of education. Would it really be good for our country for parents to choose to send their kids to either a blue school, a red school, or a Muslim school?

A good frame of reference for this issue is the speech given by BYU President Jeffrey R. Holland entitled Values and Education at the National Press Club in June 1984, and printed in August 1984 BYU TODAY. Some of his comments were:

"As a nation we have lost sight of the basic purposes of schooling, but so, it seems to me have far too many of our educators. Too many in our profession have forgotten what Socrates said..."For the argument," he said to his students, "is not about just any question but about the way one should live," Losing the significant sense of that notion is what has put our nation at risk. It is the greater crisis in American education, for the "rising tide of mediocrity" is in morality and manners far more than in mathamatics and manufacturing."

"..schools..have to be the keeper of..group memory, remembering ..values which have marked the teaching of the liberal arts for nearly 2500 years."

"We've thrown accusations and insults and statistics and we have alway wanted to throw money at this problem. What we really need to throw at it is ourselves."

Which way are we going. You decide.

This is nothing more than baseless, factless neo-con spew. It's hate-speech masquerading as deep thought. Why does the DNews waste ink publishing this drivel?

To suggest that diverting precious taxpayer resources to private schools will help public education is laughable.

Good job George. Hits the nail right on the head. I'm sorry to say that a "no voucher" outcome will be viewed by powers in education as a "stay the course" vote and it will be even harder to make the improvements in education that are needed to compete in a global market.

AMEN!

Mr. Will has hit it on the head! Well put.

Um...Zero?

Did anyone seriously believe he _wouldn't_ opine this way?

Mr. Will can always be counted on to toady to the effete country-club conservatives.

I work in Granite School District, so you may assume what my bias is. Even so, I am put off by the advertising and editorials of both sides of Utah's voucher issue. Mr. Will's column is an obvious example.

To wit:

"...teachers unions, whose idea of progress is preservation of the status quo..." Come on, George. When was the last time you attended one of the dozens of professional development courses teachers attend each year. Have you counted the additional course requirements for graduation added in Utah during the past decade. I think not.

"...vouchers are funded by general revenues, not the two sources of public school funds..." Red hearing. There is no wall between the general fund and public education funding. When the legislature allocates state surpluses to transportation, higher ed, or public education, where do you think it comes from? Note: It is also wrong for anti-voucher folk to say the money was "taken" from public education. The truth is, the millions in general fund dollars that could be spent on vouchers, should be spent on raising Utah public education off the bottom of the nation's funding per student effort.

Cont. on "Pro Con Extremes-2

Roger,

Thanks for hitting the nail on the head regarding marginal costs (as well as your other anti-voucher points). Unfortunately the general population does not understand that important point and some are influenced by simple illustrations using oreo cookies. Question for pro-voucher folks: If you take only one child out of your local public school how much does public education "save". Answer:pretty close to $0 because most costs (buildings, teachers, janitors, heat, electricity, etc.) stay the same. So the vouchers helping public schools have more money arguement is bogus.

As a retired teacher (34 years) from California, I can truthfully say that teacher organizations have changed what I once considered a "profession" to a union with all its attendant negatives. The unions have lowered the quality of teachers. It is next to impossible to get rid of a "bad" teacher because of the unions. Unions generally do not support "merit pay" to encourage better teachers to receive the pay they really deserve. Why would a person like me vote for vouchers? Its because of the teacher unions.

Well said. It's too bad so many locals fall for the fear tactics of the leftists, who are "dumbing down" our children.

Will is dead right. The money for vouchers is not government's its the people's. Let them spend it the way they want for education. We do not have government grocery stores, though food is a necessity, why should we have gov. schools as the only option

I've already written George a letter. If he wants to change labels on liberals he should be called a tax-and-spend, the-government-should-take-care-of-everyone Democrat.

"Utah spends more than $7,500 per public school pupil ..." That figure includes property tax, 80 percent of which must be spent on buildings. The U.S. Census Bureau reports that in 2004 Utah spent $5,008 per student, 51st in the nation.

"...And because the vouchers are paid from general revenues, the departed pupil's $7,500 stays in the public school system." Mr. Wills is doing some creating public finance math here. If the student leaves a school, the amount allocated to the school leaves with him/her. While the legislature did create a "hold harmless" provision (which expires in five years), there is not indication how much money that would provide per student, state wide.

Referring to Utah's forecast of additional students in the next decade, Mr. Wills says: "By empowering parents to choose private alternatives, the voucher program will save Utah taxpayers millions of dollars in school construction expenses." Mr. Wills needs to return to school for a sex education course. As I recall, it takes two adults to create a child. Adults have jobs and pay taxes.

Cont. "Pro Con Extremes-3"

"Utah's Office of Education reports that the state's private schools which are operating one-third below full enrollment have a higher percentage of nonwhites than do public schools." Sorry, George. You have this one backward. Granite School District is neartly 30 percent non-white; Salt Lake City School District is more than 50 percent non-white. What's the percent of non-whites in private schools? No one knows exactly becasue they don't report their numbers to the state.

"The Wall Street Journal reports that the NEA has approved expenditures of up to $3 million." Mr. Wills did not report the $3.8 million (some say more) that was spent by the pro-voucher campaign.

It does no one credibility to purport evidence that itself is incredible.