Reader comments
UEA attacks Referendum 1 in Salt Lake rally
89 comments | Read story
Tumbleweed Tom | 1:21 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
That seals the deal for me; if the UEA is against it, I'm FOR it. Ask
Nolan Karras how helpful the UEA endorsement was.
Conejo | 2:20 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
The MAIN thing the teachers did while having their convention was figure out how
to benefit themselves. As a side note they also had sessions that taught tips on
grammar and politeness. That's nice.
Bob G | 4:23 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
The UEA should keep their mouth shut and stay out of politics. This union is a
political union that is more interested in politics than teacher benefits and
pay. They would do better to serve and represent the teachers in the union that
are paying for their representation. This referendum has nothing to do with the
union and union responsibilities. Maybe they fear the loss of teachers moving to
private education schools where they can teach without all the politics and
inequities in the public education system.
Comments continue below
a mom | 6:00 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
UEA - what are you afraid of? loosing power?
Me too | 6:37 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
I'm with you Tumbleweed. That is the first clue that something is wrong
here. I have studied this a good deal, including reading reports on the
Milwaukee voucher program and I am convinced this is something that is worth a
try. The Milwaukee program resulted in much higher parental satisfaction with
their schools, better test results and lower costs. I am past ready to try this
in Utah. We all know there are things that will need some tweaking down the
road. Let's not fall for this �fear
campaign� by the UEA.
Ignorance | 7:28 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
You should be FOR something or AGAINST something because you took the time to
study the issue, obtain knowledge of the issue and UNDERSTAND the issue; not
because a particular group supports it or opposes it. Let's be clear
Utahns....It is your duty and obligation to speak for what you believe in. Be a
productive member of society, fulfill your responsibility as a citizen and CAST
YOUR VOTE! But do so knowledgably, with good intent! For me, I will be voting
against referendum 1.
Almost | 7:38 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Hearing Eskelson's comments is almost enough to make me vote for Referendum
1, but not quite. I could support it if we did away with public schools all
together, made privately run schools meet certain qualification requirements,
and then use current funding to make it possible for truly needy kids to have an
equal chance at an education. A plan such as that would truly foster competition
and choice, but this plan is nothing short of a joke.
Anonymous | 7:47 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
The anti-voucher arguments are so lame, they have no teeth, they do not grab
you. Why? because there is no good argument against them. Bottom line? Unions
cannot bear the thought of competition, and vouchers create competition for the
public schools; which, by the way, is the best thing that could ever happen to
public education.
MadMax | 8:09 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
First, you folks who bash unions do not have a clear historical perspective. It
is through the efforts of unions that Amaerican workers were able to enter the
middle class. Elimination of oppressive business practices like sweat shops,
company stores, physical violence against employees, child labor and other such
neanderthal activities were nobel. Advocating for 40 hour work weeks, benefit
packages and open negotiations with businesses were positive elements in all
workers gaining repect and increased opportunities. Unions have advocated for
the poor and under priveledged.
Second, UEA is in the business of educating children. They have the right, the obligation, to speak out when education issues arise. Denigrating the UEA for addressing the voucher issue is like objecting when medical organizations of doctors and nurses speak out on health issues. Who is more involved with the process of educating students than are teachers? Who has a better feel for what will help students than the very people who teach them every day? The constant diatribe against teachers and the UEA by many voucher supporters is mean spirited and wrong. Both teachers and the UEA want to see students succeed. They must advocated for programs which facilitate that happening.
Second, UEA is in the business of educating children. They have the right, the obligation, to speak out when education issues arise. Denigrating the UEA for addressing the voucher issue is like objecting when medical organizations of doctors and nurses speak out on health issues. Who is more involved with the process of educating students than are teachers? Who has a better feel for what will help students than the very people who teach them every day? The constant diatribe against teachers and the UEA by many voucher supporters is mean spirited and wrong. Both teachers and the UEA want to see students succeed. They must advocated for programs which facilitate that happening.
Chris | 8:22 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Vouchers will be defeated. It's not going to happen. In talking with most
people out there they don't believe their money should be used to educate
people in institutions beyond the public control and they don't like the
idea of anything that does not support public schools. Most people aren't
buying the argument that having some students leave will increase funding for
public schools - because it won't - funding in most schools is based on
head count. I believe that a teacher's union has as much right as anyone
to speak their mind about a public issue. If anyone is an expert on this issue
I believe it would be the teachers - they are not afraid of competition - they
are afraid that vouchers will hurt Utah children because it is a move toward
elitism.
James Madison | 8:29 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
The UEA = NEA = Leftists group of secular progressives...the undermining factor
of the American heritage and family values. When was the last time the NEA
supported a Conservative??
I find it comical that they cry about needing more $$ yet they take two days off to attend a UNION function. This should be done on their time, not on our payroll!! How much does that cost the taxpayers..and 3 million dollars from the NEA to fight choice. Just think of how many supplies and books that would buy for the Kids, if in fact the kids were first. Fact is, their priority is their own little industry.
Yet, 1 in 10 high schools in the US is a dropout factory, student academics are down, SAT's are down, and I just found out that student pregnancies and drug use are up.
Is this what the union has done for us lately? It is a poor state when a political machine are those who influence our kids on a day-to-day basis. Throw in teacher tenure and you have a dysfuntional monopoly. I'm voting for 1
I find it comical that they cry about needing more $$ yet they take two days off to attend a UNION function. This should be done on their time, not on our payroll!! How much does that cost the taxpayers..and 3 million dollars from the NEA to fight choice. Just think of how many supplies and books that would buy for the Kids, if in fact the kids were first. Fact is, their priority is their own little industry.
Yet, 1 in 10 high schools in the US is a dropout factory, student academics are down, SAT's are down, and I just found out that student pregnancies and drug use are up.
Is this what the union has done for us lately? It is a poor state when a political machine are those who influence our kids on a day-to-day basis. Throw in teacher tenure and you have a dysfuntional monopoly. I'm voting for 1
BRAVO!!! | 8:31 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Well said Max!
I'm sure that through the years, as employment has become easy to come by, people forget about the blood, sweat and lives that fell for the rights of the worker. Seems now days, people believe that a 40 hour work week, with benefits such as vacation, sick leave, bereavement leave overtime pay at time and a half (at a wage above minimum wage) are items that were just provided from the kindness of the business owners heart. NOT. People fought, bled and DIED for americans to live in a society where fair wages and hours and benefits are now taken for granted. Unions are America. AMERICA IS A UNION. Remember history........people fled England to come together, UNITE and have rights to believe what and how they wanted. For those of you that do not believe unions are a worthy group.......please, look into the history of your own UNITED States of America. I applaud the UEA for believing and fighting for the rights of OUR Public Education System!!! For those that believe UEA (and other unions) should stay out of politics... Everything is political and such is the need for organizations to speak for the people they represent!
I'm sure that through the years, as employment has become easy to come by, people forget about the blood, sweat and lives that fell for the rights of the worker. Seems now days, people believe that a 40 hour work week, with benefits such as vacation, sick leave, bereavement leave overtime pay at time and a half (at a wage above minimum wage) are items that were just provided from the kindness of the business owners heart. NOT. People fought, bled and DIED for americans to live in a society where fair wages and hours and benefits are now taken for granted. Unions are America. AMERICA IS A UNION. Remember history........people fled England to come together, UNITE and have rights to believe what and how they wanted. For those of you that do not believe unions are a worthy group.......please, look into the history of your own UNITED States of America. I applaud the UEA for believing and fighting for the rights of OUR Public Education System!!! For those that believe UEA (and other unions) should stay out of politics... Everything is political and such is the need for organizations to speak for the people they represent!
SUMSARGUY | 8:32 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
History is also recording the abuse of unions. Maybe MadMax didn't read
that for in history!!
Anti- Union | 8:37 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Hey MadMax,
Your right, unions did a lot of good things in the past when there was a need for such representation. But that is in the past, where unions belong. They are obsolete. You cannot name one thing that unions have done in the present day. Nice try.
Your right, unions did a lot of good things in the past when there was a need for such representation. But that is in the past, where unions belong. They are obsolete. You cannot name one thing that unions have done in the present day. Nice try.
Amen | 8:40 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Amen MadMax. Amen. Let's talk about the merits of the proposed voucher
program, not who supports it or opposes it.
Hey madmax | 8:43 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Hows the union controlled United States Auto industry doing? I dont know if you
have been to Detroit lately, but the city is in shambles. The Auto unions have
the car companies at their mercy and the unions have been destroying the US auto
industry and economy in Michigan for several years. I have family in Michigan
who live in a $60,000 house because they were laid of by the auto industry
because their costs are to high beause of the UNIONS. So dont tell me about
Unions.
public educator for vouchers | 8:43 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
I am a public educator for the vouchers... Yes, I did say for the vouchers. I
think we need a little competition to help us do more for children. Teachers
have no reason to do more because of UEA. (Everything is negotiated; you are
paid on a step system, raises are determined by years of experience, not on
qualification or approval ratings, even the time you spend at school is
negotiated, down to recesses and prep times.) UEA can't stand to see
precious money, which by the way is from the general education fund, not even
the public education fund goes to help kids or parents. Yes, I have read the
bill, and not relied on others for information. Competition is what the
education system needs to do better and thrive. It may even get some teachers
who no longer like the job or do very little out, and allow people who would
love to teach a chance. Vouchers are good for Utah. By the way look when the
UEA planned their two-day break, the two days before Halloween and not the two
days after Halloween. Sounds like they know what is best for kids, right?
sheesh | 8:49 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
First, GEA backed up my wifes job when evil internal school politics, principal,
and adminstration would not.....Second, the only reason that parents want the
voucher program is so they can BUY their kids grades at a private school. Make
your kids do the work parents, and quit bailing them out. Parents are the
problem with education...not the schools.
Joe | 8:49 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
MadMax: Unions are a proud and vital part of our history and we should honor
them as we do each year on Labor Day. But like most organizations, the people
who rise to the top are the most passionate and thus the most extreme. Almost
all organizations ultimately become victims of their most extreme members and
become corrupt.
The ACLU was started by Helen Keller, not as an anti-Christian group but as a genuine civil rights protection organization. But, over a generation or two, extreme factions took over and it has dropped out of the mainstream to become a fringe group.
Same with the NRA, Amnesty International, Sierra Club, and both major political parties. All were started by reasonable people with reasonable, even worthy, objectives. And all have been taken over by the most passionate of their members and have moved out of the mainstream to the fringes.
So even though unions have done good work in the past, they have mostly become fringe elements representing the interests of their most extreme members.
Regarding vouchers: I need more than chants and slogans, something the UEA/NEA seem unable to provide.
The ACLU was started by Helen Keller, not as an anti-Christian group but as a genuine civil rights protection organization. But, over a generation or two, extreme factions took over and it has dropped out of the mainstream to become a fringe group.
Same with the NRA, Amnesty International, Sierra Club, and both major political parties. All were started by reasonable people with reasonable, even worthy, objectives. And all have been taken over by the most passionate of their members and have moved out of the mainstream to the fringes.
So even though unions have done good work in the past, they have mostly become fringe elements representing the interests of their most extreme members.
Regarding vouchers: I need more than chants and slogans, something the UEA/NEA seem unable to provide.
MadMax | 9:04 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
James Madison
You are very ill informed!
UEA is not a paid event for teachers. It is an uncompensated event sponosred by UEA where teachers have the opportunity to attend workshops designed to help them become better teachers, to review new teachng materials, to engage in discussions wiht colleagues about education issues. All of these activities are paid by the dues from UEA members, not your tax dollars.
Since when does the resonpsibility for pregnancy and drug use belong to the UEA? Where do parents and churches fit here? Study habits, access to TV and games and leisure time are not the responsibility of teachers, but parents. Dropping out of school is within the control of a parent. Your venon against teachers and UEA is unfortunate.
Advocating for students is a UEA duty and that is what teachers do every day. Yes, that is a political task, but it is one for which they are well qualified and trained. Teachers deserve cudos and a raise for their very difficult job, not scorn and ridicule. Shame on you!
You are very ill informed!
UEA is not a paid event for teachers. It is an uncompensated event sponosred by UEA where teachers have the opportunity to attend workshops designed to help them become better teachers, to review new teachng materials, to engage in discussions wiht colleagues about education issues. All of these activities are paid by the dues from UEA members, not your tax dollars.
Since when does the resonpsibility for pregnancy and drug use belong to the UEA? Where do parents and churches fit here? Study habits, access to TV and games and leisure time are not the responsibility of teachers, but parents. Dropping out of school is within the control of a parent. Your venon against teachers and UEA is unfortunate.
Advocating for students is a UEA duty and that is what teachers do every day. Yes, that is a political task, but it is one for which they are well qualified and trained. Teachers deserve cudos and a raise for their very difficult job, not scorn and ridicule. Shame on you!
QOTU | 9:06 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Since when does a group that has a convention NOT figure out how to benefit
themselves? I'm sick of hearing that "teachers should stay out of
politics". Why? Because politics will not get out of education. Public
schools have become the playgroung of every group with an agenda to sell,
including the voucher crowd. The voucher crowd seems to have no problem with
employers telling their employees to vote for vouchers. Curtis, Hughes, Bramble
& Co. from the Utah legislature are arm-twisting lobbyists and business
leaders for "the cause". Why can't teachers be politically
active, too? By the way, there would be no need for unions at all if workers
were always paid adequately, treated well, and had a good working environment.
This scenario does not describe too many employers.
Marky | 9:15 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Wow. What a surprise. The UEA (union) is against the biggest threat to union
control and power that this state has ever seen. This is "news?"
Stick to the Facts | 9:15 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Come on people -- study the issue and vote on its merits, not whether or not you
hate the UEA. The Legislature hates them enough for everybody. I plan to vote
no on Ref. 1 because it is flawed legislation!
Jesse Harris | 9:23 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Unions can't even get decent compensation for teachers; how can they
possibly be expected to improve educational quality? Remember what just happened
in the Jordan School District? Experienced teachers got a pay bump... and new
teachers took a pay cut. Great way to ensure we have plenty of teachers!
Then there's what happened to teachers in Las Vegas a few years ago. The union told them to support a record tax increase so they could get a 1% raise while paying a bit more for their benefits. After the increase passed, the unions raised dues to gobble up that pay raise. Foiled again!
The fact is that while inflation-adjusted education spending has doubled since 1970, teacher salaries have stayed flat. If a union can't even accomplish their core mission of ensuring adequate teacher compensation, what makes you think they have the competence necessary to improve education? The union only cares about the union. Period.
Then there's what happened to teachers in Las Vegas a few years ago. The union told them to support a record tax increase so they could get a 1% raise while paying a bit more for their benefits. After the increase passed, the unions raised dues to gobble up that pay raise. Foiled again!
The fact is that while inflation-adjusted education spending has doubled since 1970, teacher salaries have stayed flat. If a union can't even accomplish their core mission of ensuring adequate teacher compensation, what makes you think they have the competence necessary to improve education? The union only cares about the union. Period.
kcatch9 | 9:25 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Well said Ignorance. Mad max, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Mr. Madison,
don't speak ignorantly, the teachers who attended the UEA convention did so
on their own time. They had to find subs for their classes and used their own
vacation or personal time.
This issue is not about Unions at all, this is something that needs to be made clear. This is an issue about ONE particular voucher bill that will affect the citizens, schools, and teachers (both public and private) of Utah. Decide where you stand based on your own convictions.
This issue is not about Unions at all, this is something that needs to be made clear. This is an issue about ONE particular voucher bill that will affect the citizens, schools, and teachers (both public and private) of Utah. Decide where you stand based on your own convictions.
Agreed | 9:27 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Public Educator for Vouchers,
You represent, what I believe is, a silent majority among many of our public educators. I have spoken with dozens of teachers about the voucher program and many feel exactly as you do. Most are just sick and tired of the lousy teachers being protected and drawn into the current system and the lack of choice a parent has in providing another educational option for their children (even within the public system).
Opening some avenues where competition exists would be a positive thing for the system, not a negative. Are there flaws with the referendum? Of course there are. But in my opinion the positives outweigh the negatives and I will be voting for Referendum 1.
You represent, what I believe is, a silent majority among many of our public educators. I have spoken with dozens of teachers about the voucher program and many feel exactly as you do. Most are just sick and tired of the lousy teachers being protected and drawn into the current system and the lack of choice a parent has in providing another educational option for their children (even within the public system).
Opening some avenues where competition exists would be a positive thing for the system, not a negative. Are there flaws with the referendum? Of course there are. But in my opinion the positives outweigh the negatives and I will be voting for Referendum 1.
Teacher | 9:35 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
"Privatization is a precursor to elitism, a road we don't want to go
down. . . ."
The UEA party line on "elitism" is right out of the old Socialist play book that has failed everywhere it's been tried. Including the United States.
So where has the UEA socialist road taken us? Internationally our Utah students have dropped to around 7% in math performance. Perhaps it is time to get a new car, get off the old road and join other industrialized nations passing us by on the global educational freeway. We certainly won't catch up with Sinagpore and Japan driving an NEA socialist Yugo on the educational dirt road we are on.
The UEA party line on "elitism" is right out of the old Socialist play book that has failed everywhere it's been tried. Including the United States.
So where has the UEA socialist road taken us? Internationally our Utah students have dropped to around 7% in math performance. Perhaps it is time to get a new car, get off the old road and join other industrialized nations passing us by on the global educational freeway. We certainly won't catch up with Sinagpore and Japan driving an NEA socialist Yugo on the educational dirt road we are on.
Verl Doman | 9:43 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
The role of the UEA is to protect and enhance the security and income of the
teachers. I can understand the need for such an organization, but I also
believe these goals have not been to the advantage of our children, the
students. Kim Campbell�s comment: "Privatization is
a precursor to elitism, a road we don't want to go down for the children of
Utah," promotes the theme of socialism and communism: commonality and
mediocrity � the protection for the non-performer.
If Education had kept up with business and the technology that is now available, our kids could be learning faster and better with computer software programs than by the way it has been done for hundreds of years, sitting in a class with always more than half not listening nor progessing.
What a shame that the government has had control over education to "socialize" it so to speak. Tell me why so many of doctors we see are from India and the engineers are from China.
Our current system has blown it and we need to change things to stay competive in the world market.
If Education had kept up with business and the technology that is now available, our kids could be learning faster and better with computer software programs than by the way it has been done for hundreds of years, sitting in a class with always more than half not listening nor progessing.
What a shame that the government has had control over education to "socialize" it so to speak. Tell me why so many of doctors we see are from India and the engineers are from China.
Our current system has blown it and we need to change things to stay competive in the world market.
Anonymous | 9:44 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Maybe all these terrified UEA teachers ought to start sending their resumes out
to private schools. Then again, maybe that's why they're so
afraid--they know they're not good enough to teach in private schools.
Mightyhunterhaha | 9:47 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
James Madison live up to you name sake. Madison would have been for Unions.
However The UEA puts together workshops to help teacher keep up on their yearly
required training.
The UEA and those teachers involved have every right to oppose vouchers. They work where the rubber meets the road.
Vouchers is bad legislation
The UEA and those teachers involved have every right to oppose vouchers. They work where the rubber meets the road.
Vouchers is bad legislation
Instereo | 9:52 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
If you can't understand the facts and won't seach within yourself to
see what made the United State great (public schools were a big part of the
process) and refuse to make a decison that is informed because it goes against
some politics of hate that you seem to harbor, then of course you would put down
the UEA. I've researched HB 148, I know what makes the United States great
and I've given up "Hate" politics (just read some anti-mormon
stuff then apply it to the talk against unions and it will look pretty similar)
and you'll be amazed at the liberating feelings of joy you'll have.
Public schools aren't a one size fits all solution. I can't think of
two schools that are the same in anytyhing. Utah has plenty of "School
Choice" and the UEA really does fight for better education for children.
Not even Union Teachers want to have a bad teacher teaching next door to them
because they'll have their kids the next year and have to work harder.
I'm voting AGAINST Referendum 1. It's a flawed law that does not
represent American Values.
Joe | 9:54 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
kcatch: Nobody found substitutes. No school was held yesterday or today in the
Jordan district. I assume the same is true is Granite, Salt Lake and all other
districts. Be careful about labeling others as ignorant and then exposing
yourself.
Heidi | 10:10 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Lily Eskelson tells blatant lies on the anti-R1 TV ad. I have read Referendum 1
and it does not take money from public schools. That bothers me when people lie
to me, especially people in respectable positions. Just for that I vote for
Referendum 1--though there are many other reasons to vote for it.
irishdraco | 10:18 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
I found out as a former teacher that Unions do not help, they hurt and throw
things off balance. The chance to see $$ go to children and familioes would be
great. Not to the Union...
Joe | 10:30 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
The two latest argument against vouchers:
1) Teachers "work where the rubber meets the road"
2) "It's a flawed law that does not represent American Values"
Great slogans. No substance. Are any of you starting to see it. That's the anti's tactics: "Since I can't win your mind with reason, I will win your heart with rhetoric and sound bites." That works fine at NEA/UEA pep rallies but it doesn't perusade me.
1) Teachers "work where the rubber meets the road"
2) "It's a flawed law that does not represent American Values"
Great slogans. No substance. Are any of you starting to see it. That's the anti's tactics: "Since I can't win your mind with reason, I will win your heart with rhetoric and sound bites." That works fine at NEA/UEA pep rallies but it doesn't perusade me.
UEA - A Joke | 10:38 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Let's be clear. I think most teachers have good intentions, and are
interested in the kids. However, one would be mistaken to assume that the
leadership of the UEA feels the same about your kids.
The UEA is not interested in Public Schools. They are not interested in creating a better envornment for the kids. They are interested in creating a better enviornment for the teachers, and for themselves. Moreover, they will go about getting gain for the teachers regardless of who it hurts; even the kids.
The UEA is not interested in Public Schools. They are not interested in creating a better envornment for the kids. They are interested in creating a better enviornment for the teachers, and for themselves. Moreover, they will go about getting gain for the teachers regardless of who it hurts; even the kids.
2awesome4apossum | 10:45 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
MadMax: Student/Teen pregnancy and drug use are not the responsibility of
teachers, true. But aren't we always being told by the NEA that students
should have to be told how to use condoms and have liberal sex education
programs? And what about the DARE program? What about the Leftist rhetoric is:
the key to fighting poverty, drugs, AIDS and teen pregancy is EDUCATION?
True, one is accountable to their own actions. But if we have to support the DARE programs, ridiculous sex-ed programs (mind you, I wish Utah was a little less conservative on that one, because kids just don't know how to protect themselves... very odd), and give up parental choice in the interest of letting educators give our kids the "education to fight those things" then we ought to have a choice on who's doing it. Whether it be a private school, the parents themselves, or a public school.
Public schools are not held accountable, and any level of competition we can give them: they need. If a public school needs to improve in order to function: it will, or it'll be weeded out and we'll find other alternatives.
True, one is accountable to their own actions. But if we have to support the DARE programs, ridiculous sex-ed programs (mind you, I wish Utah was a little less conservative on that one, because kids just don't know how to protect themselves... very odd), and give up parental choice in the interest of letting educators give our kids the "education to fight those things" then we ought to have a choice on who's doing it. Whether it be a private school, the parents themselves, or a public school.
Public schools are not held accountable, and any level of competition we can give them: they need. If a public school needs to improve in order to function: it will, or it'll be weeded out and we'll find other alternatives.
Jay | 10:46 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Vouchers may be the way of the future, but these referendum is not. We need a
guard against private and charter schools that are worse than public schools, we
need guards against abuse of public funds, we need to guard against public
schools becoming the gathering places of the poor and immigrants only. It is the
government's responsibility to protect the health, safety and welfare of
its citizens-- and where the government fails, the people must step in. We must
to that here by voting against this referendum.
Heidi | 10:51 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
--Oh yes, I'm sorry that I forgot to mention that this is a well-written
and well-balanced editorial. Both points of view are featured. Good job, Ms.
Laura Hancock!
LCR | 10:59 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Let's get rational and truthful! A voucher pays $3,000 for a child to go
to a private school of a parent's choosing. Fine! Except that the costs
for a student's education is higher than the $3,000 voucher gives. What if
a parent opts for vouchering their child's education, but can't afford
the rest of the costs? Who pays? Well the Utah State constitution mandates
that every child recieves an education, so the State would be forced to pay the
difference. Where does that come from? Why the public education fund of
course! Don't believe it when the pro voucher people say it won't
hurt public education. Also, why should public funds be used to voucher a
sub-standard education system that doesn't require teachers meet the same
certified educator standards as that set for public educators? The concept as
it now stands takes tax dollars to discriminatorally benefit special interests
that would otherwise not meet the legal standard for use of tax payer funds. So
they do an end run by placing on a referrenderum vote and hope they can play on
the publics ignorance of the real facts!
Joe | 11:30 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
LCR: You've built a house of cards with no foundation other than fear.
- If someone cannot afford a private school, then the state addresses that need by providing free public school. There will be no need to provide funding as a gap-filler.
- I can't even begin to fathom how you categorize private schools as inferior to public schools. HB-148 required faculty members to be degreed or prove they merit an equivalency as subject matter experts. Don't worry, you can't have aunt Jane teach calculus unless she is qualified by degree or experience to do so.
- The end run is being done by voucher opponents. The legislature spoke. They didn't like what they said so they forced it to the polls to hear the voice of the people. And now they are already saying that if they don't like the voice of the people, they will take it to the courts. Yes, they (voucher opponents) did an end run by getting a referendum on the ballot hoping they can play on the ignorance of the public. And it is going to work. Rhetoric and sound bites will convince the weak-minded and uneducated and vouchers will go down.
- If someone cannot afford a private school, then the state addresses that need by providing free public school. There will be no need to provide funding as a gap-filler.
- I can't even begin to fathom how you categorize private schools as inferior to public schools. HB-148 required faculty members to be degreed or prove they merit an equivalency as subject matter experts. Don't worry, you can't have aunt Jane teach calculus unless she is qualified by degree or experience to do so.
- The end run is being done by voucher opponents. The legislature spoke. They didn't like what they said so they forced it to the polls to hear the voice of the people. And now they are already saying that if they don't like the voice of the people, they will take it to the courts. Yes, they (voucher opponents) did an end run by getting a referendum on the ballot hoping they can play on the ignorance of the public. And it is going to work. Rhetoric and sound bites will convince the weak-minded and uneducated and vouchers will go down.
pro voucher | 11:31 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
let me ask this if all you people out that are against the vouchers why are you
fighting to have a head tax for the families that have 5 or 6 kids in the public
school system seems to me that where the public school is loosing money. To me
the families who choose to send there kids to private schools and the parents
who have 1 or 2 kids in the pulic schools are paying the same amount as the
larger families, but don't say anything about that.
Bman | 12:00 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
LCR,
If a family can't pay the difference on the tuition that the voucher doesn't cover...they go back to public school. The state does not make up the difference. Also, the money from the vouchers comes from the General Fund, not the Education fund.
In 10 years there are going to be 150,000 additional students in the system. Who is going to pay for it? Schools aren't built that quick because they have to go through a bond vote. Reduce the demand on the system means less cost to build new schools which results in more $$ per student because the existing money is spread to fewer students.
It's simple economics: raise revenue or reduce expenses. Where does the Ed fund get its money? TAXES! A "no" vote to vouchers is a vote for a future tax increase!
If a family can't pay the difference on the tuition that the voucher doesn't cover...they go back to public school. The state does not make up the difference. Also, the money from the vouchers comes from the General Fund, not the Education fund.
In 10 years there are going to be 150,000 additional students in the system. Who is going to pay for it? Schools aren't built that quick because they have to go through a bond vote. Reduce the demand on the system means less cost to build new schools which results in more $$ per student because the existing money is spread to fewer students.
It's simple economics: raise revenue or reduce expenses. Where does the Ed fund get its money? TAXES! A "no" vote to vouchers is a vote for a future tax increase!
A Public School Teacher | 12:31 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
As an educator I am voting for the voucher because I see too many public schools
run to please the administration rather than meeting the needs of students. I
remember being shocked at one of the trainings I went to where the presenter
spent 75% of her time telling us how to avoid providing needed services to the
students. When I came to Utah I was told they stack them deep and teach them
cheap. Unfortunately, I saw all too much evidence of that. I want to see the
whole climate of contention change between public and private--we need to
collaborate rather than be at war with each other. After all, it is the
nurturing of the child that should be of upmost importance--not pleasing the so
called boss or large tangled web of bureaucracy.
Cookies for the Rich??? | 12:56 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
But if we pass the vouchers, our kids will have more Oreos.
Richard Eyre must either have a HUGE EGO or think we are pretty stupid to believe his nonsense.
It's funny how a state who is at the bottom of cost per child educated is the most generous when it come to paying for vouchers. I have two daughters, one in sixth grade, and one in first. I would appreciate it if you would wait until they are out of school until you vote to destroy education.
Dislike your teachers all you want, but my daughters have loved theirs, and they are doing well in school. Having fewer kids in schools does not reduce expenses. It just takes away from their services.
The simple answer is if families are going to have 8 kids, you can't give them a huge tax break.
Utahns are always looking for a cheap shortcut. In this case it is taking a chance on our kids futures.
Hey Richard Eyring, Gov. Huntsman:
Look for someone else to Pay for your "RICH GRANDCHILDREN'S" private schools, to keep them away from the unwashed masses!!!
If my kids need Oreos, I'll buy them some.
Richard Eyre must either have a HUGE EGO or think we are pretty stupid to believe his nonsense.
It's funny how a state who is at the bottom of cost per child educated is the most generous when it come to paying for vouchers. I have two daughters, one in sixth grade, and one in first. I would appreciate it if you would wait until they are out of school until you vote to destroy education.
Dislike your teachers all you want, but my daughters have loved theirs, and they are doing well in school. Having fewer kids in schools does not reduce expenses. It just takes away from their services.
The simple answer is if families are going to have 8 kids, you can't give them a huge tax break.
Utahns are always looking for a cheap shortcut. In this case it is taking a chance on our kids futures.
Hey Richard Eyring, Gov. Huntsman:
Look for someone else to Pay for your "RICH GRANDCHILDREN'S" private schools, to keep them away from the unwashed masses!!!
If my kids need Oreos, I'll buy them some.
Jean | 1:02 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Teacher, you said it best.
From the UEA website | 1:12 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
UEA Five Year Strategic Plan
GOAL 1: Advance the Well-Being of Members
GOAL 2: Strengthen the Teaching Profession
GOAL 3: Engage in Meaningful Partnerships that
Promote Quality Public Schools
GOAL 4: Build Organizational Capacity
Good goals, but what about the students?
Laurie | 1:16 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
If UEA spent as much on teacher salaries as they have filling our mailboxes with
their propaganda, I think our teachers would have a nice little bonus in their
paychecks! Just today 3 more anti-voucher flyers came in our mail. I decided
long ago how nice it would be to be given a choice where I send my child and
what my child learns - with a little financial assistance . I'm so glad
Gov. Huntsman feels the same way as I do!!
Straight Cowboy | 1:35 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
I think Mr. Campbell said it best. "No issue is more important to the
future of our students, our careers and our schools than this one." He
says our students, our careers and our schools. It is his career, but not his
students or schools. It is above reproach that this union has one thing on its
mind and thats it. SURVIVAL. Competition in education is a great thing. Look
at the college level. You can choose your college. There are good and bad
colleges out there and you get to choose which one you want. Why not the same
options for lower education? Why is it that liberals want choice unless it
takes money and power out of their control?
Dale | 1:47 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
This whole debate is tired! I'll bet that not one person was swayed by
anyone's argument on this string. Just a lot of venting, vitriol, and
hateful ignorance - with a "few" good points.
November 6th can't come too soon - so we can see this ill-advised legislation go down in flames!
November 6th can't come too soon - so we can see this ill-advised legislation go down in flames!
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- Haws playing like a veteran 12:36 a.m.
- Hot Rod behind mic for Lakers 12:35 a.m.
- Jazz go up against 'the best' 12:33 a.m.
- Sports on the air 12:26 a.m.
- Bobcats stun high-flying Nuggets 12:23 a.m.
- Utes finally get to host Michigan 12:18 a.m.
- Flash apologize, offer refund 12:12 a.m.
- Editorial: Leave the economy alone 12:12 a.m.
- Dishonest global warming scientists 12:12 a.m.
- Tensions in Ceuta 12:12 a.m.
- BYU football: Bronco weighs in on Hall
- Yet again, we learn BCS is a big joke
- Snow brings big chill
- Andersen apologizes for Jordan hoax
- Cougars in better mood about bowl
- Williams' late jumper tops Spurs
- Ranking the bowl games
- $2M error could mean layoffs
- Witness: Mitchell stalked victims
- Expert calls Mitchell delusional
- Y. profs: Beck not all-knowing
278 - Letters: Global warming a lie214
- TCU to play Boise in Fiesta Bowl205
- BYU football: Bronco weighs in on Hall165
- Cougars going back to Vegas148
- Utah/BYU rivalry can be more civil143
- George lost in rivalry hatefest119
- Andersen apologizes for Jordan hoax110
- Ed Smart 'appalled' at testimony99
- Revive full food tax?94
For the latest news in the health care debate and how it affects you...
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette writer Joyce Gannon offers the following advice...
Latest comments
It will be good to hear "real play by play or even as analyst with Joel...
i hope hot rod gets confused while doing the play by play and thinks he's...
The BCS bowl team match-ups aren't what you think. First, yes the top two...
Even Ed Gein was found competant to stand trial.
So Bronco's okay with the churches "standard bearers" spewing hatred. Wierd....
By putting TCU & Boise together that means that the other 3 BCS games will...
Ticky... Tacky...
The DNews requests the lists from the region coaches. Ask your coaches why...
This story brings back memories of an Ogden base ball team, who promiced if a...
GO UTES!!!
Advertisements