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Evangelicals bristle over Mitt's faith

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Army Guy | 1:06 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Since when is declaring that Jesus Christ is your personal Savior "picking a fight" with Southern Baptists? And who are they to claim sole ownership of worshipping Jesus Christ? I am very disappointed in some of these so-called "Christian" ministers. If it's voting for the Republican agenda that they are worried about, they should look no further than the state of Utah--when is the last time Utahns voted for a democratic presidential candidate? Truman? That's fifty years of toeing the red party line--shouldn't that be a clue that Mormons and Southern Baptists vote for the same values? Sadly, it looks like that's not the central issue here--they just can't handle the idea that Mormons are Christians--even though the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints is called by His name, not by a geographically identified ritual convention. Oh well, all the while we Mormons will continue to worship Jesus Christ, even if Southern Baptists say we don't. And we'll continue to claim divine authority from Christ Himself, even though they make no such claim. And if that's "picking a fight," that's just too bad.
pointless | 3:42 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
right on the nose army guy.
Anita Davis | 5:53 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Just a brief comment: It seems to me that we're struggling with a definition problem here. Many Christian faiths define Christianity by their belief in the Bible as the only word of God to men. By that definition, Mormons are not Christians. In the other camp, Mormons, in general, look at the word "Christian" itself, and start thinking and talking about a definition based on belief in Jesus Christ as Savior, which definition we fit very nicely into. Definition problems. Let's not fight over it incessantly. "We believe in . . . Jesus Christ . . . We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." While we would be happy if other Christians would use a different word to describe their belief in the Bible as the only scripture, they have chosen the word "Christian". It's an awkward choice. So let's admit that we are not Christians by THEIR definition. That's okay. We do love and worship Jesus Christ as the son of God, our redeemer, resurrected, and glorified, and we are trying to live to become like Him.
Comments continue below
RL | 6:24 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
How do the Mormon haters expect to get to heaven???
I am stunned at such bigot attituded's. I live in the South and am ashamed of the Southern so called Christains. To me they need to explain their religion - not Romney.
Blaine Nay | 6:37 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Well said, Amy.
David | 7:14 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
It's unfortunate how this article is filled with so much misinformation.
suffered from bigots | 7:27 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
The authors need to be accurate in their facts. I personally believe HBO stands for �horribly base and offensive� and therefore do not subscribe; print articles I have read about their program, �big love� stated that the producers made an effort to distinguish between the religion practiced by its central characters and the LDS faith. Apparently they have failed to do so. As to setting 1827 as the founding of Mormonism, I guess they are referring to the year the Book of Mormon was published? The church was organized in 1830, but Joseph Smith�s first vision was 1820.

I wouldn�t be too offended that evangelicals claim Latter Day Saints are not Christian. I have heard evangelicals say the same thing about other protestant denominations. If you�re confident in your own faith, you don�t need to worry about what others say. The true �Christian� attitude of the evangelicals is on display every six months as they protest outside LDS General Conference.

As for Noah Crowe studying Mormonism at his bible college; it�s like studying the virtues of capitalism from Karl Marx, you�re not going to get the straight story.
SFC RET DENNIS | 9:11 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
ARMY GUY, Well Said
Veuve Cliquot | 9:20 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Either way, it all boils down to "My Jesus is better than your Jesus."
Ruth | 9:48 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
To All | 10:12 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Since I've lived here, I've had a number of insults whispered to me. I've had a lot of comments made at me. I've had neighbors that would not let their kids play with mine. I've had neighbors that turn their back so that they do not have to wave. This is only because I'm not LDS. I've given them no reason to dislike me, yet because of my faith, they do. We do a lot of tings as a family, are very religious, and try to be friendly to all our neighbors, even the ones who won't talk to us. I've help a lot of our neighbor with projects (even the ones who won't talk to us). There are some that I work with that call Utah the home of the American Taliban. I love it here.
I read these post and hear a lot of "those guys" tone in them. We all worship the same God but in different ways.
Maybe we ALL need to look at how we think of each other. Maybe we need to follow Jesus' teaching and turn the other cheek. I know I have and it is very sore but I'll continue.
Old Corps Dad | 10:43 a.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Thank you Ruth for an excellent thought. I would only hope that our Baptist friends might pay a little more heed to the book that we all, LDS and Baptists and other Evangelical Christians hold as the word of God which states in Matt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Doug | 4:55 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Interestingly enough, the dictionary definition of Christian is:

1. of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings. 2. of, pertaining to, or adhering to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. 3. of or pertaining to Christians. 4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ, as in having a loving regard for other persons. 5. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; an adherent of Christianity. 6. a person who exemplifies in his life the teachings of Christ.

I don't see anything there about the Bible as the only scripture. Hmmm....
John in FL. | 7:02 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
Well "To All" looks like another "back" job. Come to Florida, we'd love you what ever religion you are. Things are looking up for Gov. Romney here and I am excited! He will make a great president!
Enjoy!
question | 8:14 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007
So, what ever was wrong with being referred to as 'saints'? Not many years, back, mormons would never have accepted 'Christians'.....so, why the change?
Ben Jones | 5:29 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
My brother, a born-again Christian, asked me recently how I could have turned my back on all my parents taught me by becoming a Mormon 25 years ago. I found that that question really strange not only because Mormons do believe in Jesus Christ as their savior but because my parents set an example of community service, kindness to their neighbors, patience for those suffering from handicaps, tolerance for people of all faiths, and respect for people throughout the world including those who were regarded as our country's enemies; which I always understood to be at the heart of Jesus' teaching.

I was visiting my sister's church when I overheard her teacher saying, "Yeah, Mormons are evil." I said, "Excuse me. I'm a Mormon and I don't consider myself evil. Why do you say that?" He rattled off a number of doctrinal differences and then admitted that every Mormon he'd ever known was a good neighbor, honest in their dealings, etc. I wanted to know by what criterion does someone decide whether someone is evil. Didn't Jesus say, "By their fruits you will know" whether people are good or evil?
Lame | 6:15 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
How many times will someone quote "judge not lest..." I think its time everyone who quotes that verse look it up for a change! Jesus called Herod a snake, pharisees, Hypocrites and even Peter when he sought to avoid the cross, Satan. You don't have to judge a adulter, liar, thief, murder or non christian, they are already in judgement. (John 3:17-19) This verse doesn't mean we allow any kind of action of others and reckon it as personal choice and its ok. This verse is indicating a "better than thou" attidude, which this whole debate seems to be saturated with it. Not based on my assessment but the doctrine of love (1Cor 13 4-6)
Steve | 7:18 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
To Army Guy:

You hit it right on the head! Truer words were never spoken! Well, maybe... "I saw a pillar of light..." ;-)
Legal guy | 7:37 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
To "Army Guy":
The President you are referring to once stated "The Constitution is just a piece of paper."

This does not sound like a person who answers to us, as you suggest.
Bob | 7:51 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
I have the recent comments with interest. Being LDS, I have no doubt as to whom I worship and follow..that is my Heavenly Father and His Son and my Savior, Jesus Christ. As to who is Christian and who is not, I tend to believe that it is Christ that will make that judgement, not me nor any other man/woman. I believe as Americans we need to choose the best person to serve us as President. We have a responsibility to make an informed decision based on what we know about the candidates. Does religion factor in? Only to the extent as to how the person's faith has affected thier character. For those candidates that declare themselves to be Christian and flaunt the teachings, I think that tells us something of importance about character. This election is critical, I firmly believe. I hope and pray that as Americans of whatever faith, we make wise and prayerful choices.
NY | 8:06 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
Mormons can't acknowlege Jesus Christ as their savior??? WOW! Mormons are most certainly Christians, but they are not EVANGELICAL Christians. They are not Protestants. Nobody is saying that Mormons are just like Evangelicals. There are profound differences. But the notion that ONLY Evangelicals are Christinas is ridiculous.
annette | 8:13 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
This issue shows the danger of mixing religion and politics. The First Amendment states that there shall be no religious test for public office. It looks like the "Christians" on both sides of the fence here have created one. We are in danger of becoming an Iraq here where different factions kill each other.

I don't care about a candidates particular faith - I'm not voting for "minister in chief" and a President should not impose his religious values on the people.
Yellow Rose of Texas | 8:15 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
I appreciate all the interesting thoughts and insights. I guess the only way any of us will know truth for sure is to pray and ask God, with a sincere heart, the source of all truth. Right?
Have a great day!
susan | 8:15 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
I don't understand the fear and hatred people have for the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. There are many many Christian religions who all teach different doctrines. The leaders of our church teach us to love and appreciate the goodness of the members of other churches, and all the good works they do. I assure anyone who wonders if we are Christians, that we are. And we are taught to follow the examples of Christ and try to live as he did. We sent millions of dollars and thousands of man hours to Katrina victims and many others at home and abroad including many semi truck loads reciently to victims of the fires in California. I feel sad that the gospel I love is so misunderstood. Good people are good people whatever their belief.
Which Church is True | 8:20 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
If Mormons aren't christian because they have different beliefs, which church is the true christian church? The last time I looked Methodists believed differently than Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, in fact isn't that what distinguishes a church from another is that they have a different belief about the same being (Christ)?

If the bible is the absolute word why do all the different religions prefer their own bible? Why isn't one version of the bible specifically used for all these "Christian" religions? Seems like they all have their own "Book of Mormon".

The good thing Mitt Romney has done is shown clearly that bigotry is alive and well in uneducated, self righteous America.

I thought bigotry was strong in Utah. Turns out it's a national trend.
Mississippi Steel Magnolia | 8:28 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
Mitt Romney has intelligence, experience, love of family and unpaid church service to God (unlike paid ministers who have their congregations' tithings support them even in retirement-from God's service??!!) written all over him! He has the values of the Republican Party I endorse to select the Supreme Court justices during his tenure. This is why he will make a great president.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints receives it's authority from God, the AUTHOR of the Bible, not the book. God is an awesome God who can create the universe, raise the dead but not give his Word to anyone else in the world?? Come on, He is the Lord God Almighty for a reason! The Book of Mormon has the same teachings as the Bible just to a different people. It does not take away from the Bible, it testifies of it's truthfulness! It is a second witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah. All Christians should think that is wonderful, this former Southern Bapist sure does!

A man who can believe and serve THAT God will surely make a great servant to his country. He has my vote but only as a Republican!

Birdman | 8:36 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
To "To All": To quote the late Mr. Rodgers, "Won't you be my neighbor?" You are the neighbor I should be, but am not all the time. A wonderful family of another faith lived down the street from us when our kids were growing up and their three boys were great friends of our boys. They played sports together and hung out at both houses. Their parents were two of the best people I was acquainted with. I am saddened that your experience with your neighbors is not a positive one.
They trump us | 8:42 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
The born agains I have known are the most bigoted folks I've ever met. They even trump some of the pious LDS folks I've met here in Utah. Seriously, Romney has no chance so there is no point in engaging in a religious war with these closed minded folks. Let it go. Be what you are, let them think what they want.
Scott | 8:42 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
So here we go again, spiralling off topic with yet another argument about who's Christian and who's not. Read Elder Holland's latest General Conference address, then argue with him about it.

As to Mitt's viability as a candidate, religion shouldn't play a role in it. Sure, his beliefs will influence his decisions, but that can't be avoided no matter who is elected. I, too, choose to let peoples' actions speak for them, and Mitt's indicate that he's a pretty wobbly on several policy issues, but a solid family man and devoted father. To me, that beats a cross-dressing former mayor or a double-talking senator any day.

If you're going to vote solely on religion, then all LDS members should be voting for Mitt and stumping for Harry Reid to be his running mate. The misguided notion that religion is the basis for choosing a candidate says that would be the ideal LDS ticket. Anyone care to guess how it'd work in real life?

Stop fighting over our faiths. As Christians, we should all be turning our cheeks and stop the war of words. Let everyone exercise their agency in faith and politics, and be judged accordingly.
Nate | 8:42 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
In regards to "To All" and actually everybody else. The LDS have their own preconceived prejudices, just like anybody else. Everybody needs to be more tolerant not just the Evangelicals, but Mormons also. Not letting your children play with other children because of their faith directly goes against anything that Christ taught, and for the LDS anything that the GA's teach during general conference. Lets all get more tolerant folk. The excuse, they do it so we can to, just proves how stupid people are.
Anonymous | 9:03 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
To Army Guy regarding your statement: "But Satan being Jesus brother is blasphemey "God gave his ONLY Son.."

The scripture you are misquoting is John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only *begotten* Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Was Hosea blasphemous when he said: "...and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God"?
Gaucho | 9:10 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
The Argentine Constitution (which was largely based on the US Constitution) once stated that the president of the country had to be Roman Catholic. Although removed in 1994, it still states a support for the Roman Catholic Church.

Is this what we want for the US? To have the constitution state that only a Christian can be president? And who decides or defines a Christian? Do they have to pass a worthiness test as to their true beliefs? The Clintons claim to be Christian but they don't support many of the values I do and I could never vote for them.

I believe that though the founding fathers were strongly Christian (believing in Jesus Christ) they wouldn't fit the definition that these same Christian Leaders claim. It is for this reason they left out any religious requirement.

Why Romney doesn't want to try to address this is very obvious. He says he's Christian and these preachers take to the pulpit and says no he's not. It is these same religiously intolerant preachers who keep claiming he needs to address the issue that are the ones creating the problem in the first place by promoting their intolerance from the pulpit.
dennis | 9:34 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
At the rate the liberals are going, it won't be long before our country has an official policy mandating the separation of church and state.
Carl | 9:38 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
These good "christian churches" already had their day when they killed Joseph Smith. That was pure murder because they thought he was wrong then and not much more has changed. Let's not be too hasty to judge Mitt Romney because his ancestor was a polygamist or had a brand of christianity different from the protestants. All of these churches had members of the mob that blackened their faces and shot Joseph and Hyram in cold blood. The ministers of the day were glad to be rid of him. The ministers of this day will do anything to supress the freedom of religious choice that is guaran-g.d.-teed by the constitution. So vote up folks. If you don't like a candidates views you are free to vote for Hillary who will eat your families alive--figuratively speaking. Mitt Romney is not your enemy and neither is the LDS church. You are your own enemies and you will crumble under her leadership but Mitt and his fellow Mormons will park your cars for you and watch your stuff while you hold your own church meetings and figure out how to stab them in the back.
Mormons Against Romney | 10:03 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
I got news for you. Mitt Romney's faith has never been an issue in this campaign. It's simply his gimmick as to why he cannot get conservatives to vote for him.

Mitt Romney is a liberal who represents liberal interests and liberal causes. Mitt Romney supported gay civil unions in Massachusets, and even that is against the Church Handbook of Instructions.

Fred Thompson will beat Mitt Romney like a goverment mule. Who care if Mitt is Mormon. It's a lame gimmick.
Johnny Come Lately | 10:06 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
What? Evangelicals don't like Mormons? When did this happen?

What's more, when was it established that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or any other church, had to get permission to proclaim beliefs?

Here I was thinking that I can define my faith for myself. Next time, I would like to see a list of who I need to go through for such clarifications, since apparently I need permission for faith.
To Army Guy: | 10:09 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
Next time you spell the name of the Church, remember that the "d" in the words "Latter-day" is in lower case. Geez, learn how to spell the name of the Church.

You don't represent the Church and neoither does Mitt.
Awful | 10:39 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
I can't believe Deseret News even printed this article. It is terribly written, full of factual errors and missinterpretations and it clearly has one agenda, to try and stir up controversy and contentions. The fact that TWO people wrote it makes it even more pathetic.

I have watched Big Love and it make very clear the distinction and relationship between the LDS religion and the practice of polygamy. Moreover, Romney WON THE STRAW POLE AT THE VALUES CONVENTION, beating a former Baptist minister I might add.

All of this Blog Rage about biggotry and who owns and believes what is pointless.

Lets try talking about something that really matters like what Romneys health care plan is going to look like. Does he still wan't to mandate coverage for all Americans like he mandated coverage for Mass? How does he think america can cope with the skyrocketting cost of healthcare? Why is it that we seem so motivated to get treatments for deadly diseases to third world countries when our own people can't even afford to get them?

Somebody help me out here, I'm starting to loose faith in people...

xscribe | 10:42 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
Look at all this fighting, over whose religion is true and whose is not. Religion is what most wars are fought over, in one aspect or another. Get rid of religion, get women in power in all countries, and you will see war disappear.
Dave | 10:48 a.m. Oct. 31, 2007
For those who are worried that a Mormon president would have to follow directions from church leaders, explain why Mitt Romney and Harry Reid seemingly have almost no beliefs in common.
sb | 12:10 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
When will all of this stop? What right do those saying that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are not Christian and tell them that they can't say that Jesus is their personal savior when He very much is? Pastor Crowe and those teaching at his Bible college need to take an honest look at the teachings found within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints rather than teaching hatred towards others. Perhaps all of us need to do better in following this commandment. John 13:34-35 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
sb | 12:15 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
Perhaps we should also follow this admonition from Paul. Ephesians 4:31-32. "Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Blucoug | 12:22 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
Who cares if the baptist or other faiths say Mormons aren't Christians. Baptists aren't christians. They don't believe in the true Jesus. Mormons need to stop being defensive and give them a dose of their own medicine. When I have people tell me that I am not a christian because I am a mormon, I tell the they are not a christian because they are not a mormon. It really throws them for a loop when they hear how stupid it sounds.
Jason | 12:35 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
Heres a guy, a decent, caring,god fearing and faith filled man, one who would most likely restore some integrity to the office. Unfortunately,this candidate will not get elected because of his religious affiliation. Wow! we deserve what we get!
dh | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
The hatred, bigotry, and close mindedness of the "so called" Evangelical Christians against Mormons runs long and deep. Most of the lynch mob who murdered Joseph Smith were evangelicals. Like many of their twisted counterparts in the Muslim faith, they depsise anyone who doesn't view God as they do. As a returned LDS Missionary myself, I can personally say how close minded and even "simple minded" many of the hard core Southern Baptists and their confused evangelical counterparts are. I will say that most Catholics that I taught were much more open minded and not afraid to exam their own faith as the Baptists are. Most Baptists are VERY fearful of examining their own roots and the origns of their own doctrines. They don't want to hear that their own " confused and false version" of God WAS NOT TAUGHT by Christ or his apostles but rather sprang from Constantine and the Nicene Creed. No sir, they simply cover their ears and refuse to listen even though it is a historical fact. Their own founder (Roger Williams) recognized that the "true church of Christ" was not on the earth.
Puzzled | 12:41 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
I grew up in a SLC neighborhood with Mormon and non-Mormon friends and recieved my eagle scout award the same night as my best non-Mormon friend.

Later in life, serving in a SLC bishopric, I helped "call" the Episcopalian father of my son's best friend to serve as assistant scout master in the troop sponsored by our ward. This man was one of the best scouters ever and we have been all over the state together. We attended the consecration of his remodeled church and he has attended meetings in our church.

Some of our dearest family friends comprise the leadership of a local Presbyterian congregation. These are wonderful, sincere, intelligent, Christian people to the core. They have attended meetings in my church and I in theirs. At social functions I have prayed in their homes and vice versa.

Fifty years in the Mormon Church has taught me to act in no other way than to rejoice in the worship, or no worship, of others and to find goodness, value, and worth in each individual and his or her beliefs.

When a person refers to me as "non-Christian" because of my religion I am not only saddened but genuinely puzzled.
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
The reporter for this story is obviously simply a Democrat opposed to Romney and is trying to play up the religious division issue in order to portray the Evangelical Christians as religious bigots who refuse to "share" Jesus Christ with other people (including Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox). My analysis is based on the fact that the story completely OMITS any reference to the endorsements Romney received recently from prominent Evangelicals. There are NO quotes from any of the many Evangelicals who recognize that picking a president on the basis of being a member of your own religious denomination got them Bill Clinton, a sexual predator, and Jimmy Carter, a self-righteous peanut brain.

Evangelicals who insist on the unassailable authority of the Bible should remember that Martin Luther hated the Epistle of James because teaches that good works are integral to true faith, and made it an appendix to his German translation of the Bible. Certain Evangelicals reject James and the Sermon on the Mount and other commands of Jesus, such as baptism, as well as the Old Testament, as applying to them because of their belief in salvation without righteous works! Yet they are allowed to call themselves Christians.
Gary M | 1:02 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
I spent 24 years in the military and have lived in many places, in and out of the United States. What I've come to know is that there are too many religions to know everything about, so trying to compare one to another or decide whos' is better or more right seems futile to me. Are You going to convince me I'm wrong or am I going to convince you you're wrong? I don't think so! There are about 47 posts on this subject and there are about 47 different points of view, more or less. LOOK AT THE CANDIDATE and decide who you think would be able to lead this country based on their past actions, experiences. I would rather have a good, moral, virtuous, richeous (sp), person in office even if he doesn't believe (religiously)all of the same things I do, than to have the alternative
Oliver in Ireland | 1:09 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
America waken up! Vote for the best cadidate. Vote for the one who will protect your values, your freedoms, and that great American way which I have seen in catholic, protestant,mormon, jew and gentile. The only way that the great American way can be distroyed is from within. No outside force will be strong enough to defeat you as a country, as the most generous, freedom loving people on this earth. But you can rip yourselves apart from within, and while that may be some time off, it seems you are sowing the seeds of self distruction. But thankfully its not too late,but while you argue and critise over religion, abortion laws will be librilised, same sex marriage will be part of the norm, and paedophiles will be looking to your children claiming to have the constitution at their backs. If America falls then the world is on a very slippy slope.
A Warning to Evangelicals | 1:13 p.m. Oct. 31, 2007
If it's truly a religious litmus test you desire for your candidates, we're certainly capable of providing one. Are you familiar with the term "tit for tat?" It means that what goes around, comes around. What makes you believe that you can reject a completely legitimate Mormon candidate on the basis of his faith, alone, and not then expect the same treatment in return? My advice: Tread lightly. This is dangerous territory you're proposing to enter, and you stand to lose the fiercely loyal Republican (and, yes, there are some Democrats) support of MILLIONS of U.S. Mormons. It's not the entire tide you'll be fighting, but it's a strong enough undertow to drown future Evangelical candidates if you tick us off enough with this ridiculous and unwarranted standard.

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