Deseret News | Packing heat, no apologies

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Packing heat, no apologies

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A True American | 3:52 p.m. Oct. 26, 2007

Those guys up there in Washington are tryin' to take our guns away, but we ain't gonna let 'em, No siree, Bob!

utoc-45-44 | 4:09 p.m. Oct. 26, 2007

The Proclamation of Emancipation came about 1862 and Thomas Jefferson died 1826.
" Some find it baffling that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves yet was outspoken in saying that slavery was immoral and it should be abolished. Biographers point out that Jefferson was deep in debt and had encumbered his slaves by notes and mortgages; he chose not to free them until he finally was debt-free, which he never was.""He wrote about slavery, "We have the wolf by the ears; and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other.""Jefferson "believed that it was the responsibility of the state and society to free all slaves.In 1769, as a member of the House of Burgesses, Jefferson proposed for that body to emancipate slaves in Virginia, but he was unsuccessful""Jefferson condemned the British crown for sponsoring the importation of slavery to the colonies,...

Anonymous | 4:49 p.m. Oct. 26, 2007

Uh-Oh! One of our precious "Founding Fathers" had some flip-flopping incidents they never explained!
What else is new?

Comments continue below

What the ...? | 5:31 p.m. Oct. 26, 2007

Wait a minute JVB! "angry, dismissive, sarcastic and just downright rude?"
You don't have to bring Rush Limbaugh into this issue do you?

Man | 6:27 p.m. Oct. 26, 2007

The only guns I need to carry are the ones attached to my shoulders.

Grapeshot | 9:30 p.m. Oct. 26, 2007

The Virginia Tech students and staff had only "the ones connected to their shoulders!" Do not fear the gun, fear the man. As Col.Jeff Cooper replied when a lady asked him if his side arm wasn't dangerous - Yes Mam, decidedly so to those that would bring harm to me or mine. (paraphrased) Please tell me, no guarantee when and only when, I shall need a weapon and maybe I'll only carry it then - if I have time to go get it. We have suffered no OK corrals, no shoot out of angry citizens. We have had 2-3 million defensive use of firearms annually though. Did you know that concealled weapons permits holders cause less violent crime than law enforcement officers? Open your mind and trust your neighbors - they are good, honest citizens taking responsibility for the protection of themselves, their family and who knows maybe one day your children.

Utah Cop | 1:39 a.m. Oct. 27, 2007

Dear Anonymous, After 6 years of LE, I wish I could regain the blissfully ignorant rose colored glasses that obscure your vision of reality. The results of the world you seek can be seen in LA, Chicago and DC at least. Oh and I have yet to take a report with injuries where the victim was armed. Just showing a firearm stops most attacks with no shots fired. Rapes and assaults? Victims were unarmed. Do Cops a favor, get a defensive firearm and learn how to use it.

Larry B | 5:53 a.m. Oct. 27, 2007

Guns R Us,
"The NRA has declined in power over the last decade, and its once-potent lobbyists have come out on the losing end of key legislative battles like the Brady Bill, causing many members to bring their lifelong subconscious fears to the fore."

The NRA supported the Brady Legislation as far as background checks. They also support the proposed legislation involving mental health records. You can't say that the NRA is losing power, they are just supporting certain legislation. That does not make then weak. I prefer misguided, in some cases.

My kids are well trained in the use of firearms. They are 12 and 13 years of age. Both know when and what firearms are to be used for. Nothing more entertaining out there than watching your sons banging away on steel plates with your semi-auto UZI with big grins on their faces.....

Both those kids have more common sense and a better grasp on reality then the majority of the anti-gun posters. The comments from most anti-gun posters seem to support the idea that anti-gun people have emotional issues.

$0.02

XD Owner | 10:53 a.m. Oct. 27, 2007

Jack in New Jersey - Get on I-95 and move to Virginia, a shall-issue state for concealed carry, and no permit required for open carry! Just be careful going through Philly, Baltimore, and avoid DC!

Jeff | 9:57 p.m. Oct. 27, 2007

Thomas,
The "we" I refered to was my wife and myself. Though I hardly see why that is relevant.

Jeff | 1:00 a.m. Oct. 28, 2007

Ever notice how many of the antis that are posting do not seem to have the ability to rationally debate this issue? It is refreshing to occaisionally stumble across a post from an anti that is rational and articulate. But those are so rare. Instead we get ones like the post by anonymous at 5:44 a.m. Oct. 26 2007. I ask you anonymous, please name one of these terrible Jack Clancy novels. The Library of Congress has no listing in its on line catalog for "Jack Clancy". I can't find him on Amazon either. I think it would be safe to say that none of us have ever read one of these Jack Clancy novels you hate so much. Does that make you feel any better? Are we less scary to you now?
We don't go around stating your reading list consists of Mein Kampf, Mao's Little Red Book, or The Turner Diaries. We are above that, you should be too.

Mudruck | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007

Wow, some of the comments here are pretty scary.

Are people really that much like sheep? Follow the herd, dont make eye contact, keep the peace. If you leave them alone, they will leave you alone.... right?

I mean the police are there to protect us right?
Guess you never asked a policeman what his primary duty is then?

You have people who would refuse to 'be in the same room' with someone with a gun. Wonder how many times you have sat next to someone who has a concealed one that they didnt tell you about. If that same person defends your life or a life of a loved one... are you still going to stand behind your beliefs?

You have people that feel that only police and military should be allowed to carry. What an absolute shame. Read up on some history. Russia, Germany, China and Africa are some good places to start.

Here in the US look at Washington DC. It has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation. It also has one of the highest crime rates. Hmmm I thought you said that fewer guns means less crime...guess somebody should tell criminals that.

Jeff | 2:34 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007

If armed citizens are such a danger to the community why are the anti's not able to show us any numbers to support that position? News papers all over the country have stories every day about citizens using their legally carried weapons to successfully defend themselves and others. If we are so dangerous and such poor shots and have such poor judgement that we shoot wildly into crowds, where are all of the news stories about it? Why isn't the Brady Campaign shouting in the streets about how many innocent people have been killed and wounded by stray bullets fired by legally armed citizens? Could it be that they just don't have any facts to justify the hype?

Bryan | 3:13 p.m. Oct. 30, 2007

I really like the comment by Massob Ayoob, a retired NYC Cop:

"Certainly, those with uncontrollably violent tendencies should not own guns. When asked this question, I always respond with a question: ï¿½Could you pick up a gun and kill someone you love because they angered you?ï¿½ If the answer is No, I reply, ï¿½Then how dare you imply that I, and everyone else, would be that unstable?ï¿½ If the answer is Yes, I suggest they stop attempting to counsel well-adjusted people and immediately seek psychiatric counseling for their own self-admitted tendency toward acting out impulses of uncontrollable violence. "

Chad | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 1, 2007

Massob hit the nail on the head. It's called 'projection' by the psychiatric community. You assume that all the 'paranoid trigger happy gun slingers' are going to overreact and kill innocents because you're afraid that's what YOU would do in that situation. Please, for all our sakes, keep fearing and avoiding guns at all costs. But I'm not you and I don't think like you do. I intend to keep my guns AND my right to carry them.

Dennis H | 2:52 p.m. Nov. 10, 2007

Its about time open carry was addressed properly and with out bias. When I lived in the southwest, colorado, arizona and new mexico i carried openly even though i had an AZ CCW. Now that i live in the Northeast, i have to rely on CCW. I much prefer open carry.As far as the ninnies decrying open carry and/or gun toting in general, I can only say PAH!! You're an idiot. I have needed a gun twice in my life as a civilian. Both times it saved my bacon without firing a shot. By the way I think "An armed society is a polite society" came to us Robert Heinlin via Jeff Cooper. Semper Fi. Today is the Marine Corps birthday.

John | 9:31 a.m. Nov. 12, 2007

First of all Mas Ayoob IS a currently serving Law Officer in New Hampshire (a Captain last time we spoke). He's taken about every worth while firearms class himself and has been teaching others the best
firearms techniques for over 30 years. As an NRA instructor and LFI level 4 graduate, if Mas says something, I listen. I can almost guarantee that
those that criticize him don't know him and haven't trained with him.For the price of a good pistol you can take a course at Lethal Force Institute. It's on the net. Good Luck.

Tom | 11:09 p.m. Nov. 13, 2007

Recently, an anti gun politician from Ohio was robbed at gun point. The next day he applied for a gun permit. As one blogger stated, all the anti gun sentiment goes down the literal toilet when you or your loved ones are at the mercy (or lack, thereof) of a violent criminal. If 911 and the police can protect you then what are all these murder statistics about? Foolish sheep. I have stared down the barrel of a gun and it is the most helpless feeling in the world. Maybe we could sing, "Give Peace a Chance" or ask the meth heads if we could hold hands around the camp fire and sing, "Kumbaiya". Yeah, that's the ticket. baaaaaaaaaah.

Johnny | 3:05 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Do you people flip out when you see a person with a pocket knife clipped to their belt? Unless you're crazy, you think nothing of it. A lot of people with knifes carry them as a weapon for defense. Same goes with a gun. Just about anyone who openly displays a firearm will not cause any harm. There is this wonderful thing called "the element of surprise" that criminals take to their advantage. Why would they open carry and draw attention to them selfs before they even had a chance to follow through with their plans? I've carried firearms for some years now..Both open carry and concealed. I've never come across anyone who carries a weapon legally that has used it in an improper manner. A decent person who carries a gun is not a threat to society. You should thank them for being armed if anything. They are the ones that keep crime at bay just as much as the police do. Criminals think twice about doing something if they feel the victim is armed or there is an armed civilian around. There is nothing wrong with having the means to protect yourself.

Joseph | 11:22 a.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Hello I had to post my comments after reading the first couple.

First I am only 22 years old. I shot my first firarm when I was about 8 years old. I was taught to respect and understand what a firearm could do. With that I'm not afraid of them and that's what people need to do to keep kids from playing with them. TEACH THEM.

Second the comment was made that around the happy valley in Utah there isn't crime to worry about. let me tell you there is. I grew up in the Springville Provo area and I know what goes on. I know about the rapes (3 friends), the physical assaults (2 requiring hospital visit), the armed robberys (3 that I know personaly) and not to mention all the drug dealers around.

Personaly I would like to see more permit holders open carrying then there are now. What the sheeple don't understand is that when you're carrying you typically very aware of your surroundings and the people around. I personally would feel safer around people carrying then unarmed people.

SPC bobcat (us army) | 4:35 p.m. Nov. 14, 2007

Personaly i admire these people that look to make my life easier. the more people that are willing to return america to the prosperouse, safe and armed society it once was the less i'll have to be taken away from my family to protect the illiterate gun banners from the terrorists whom they help. criminals ar not detered by making things illegal nor will they be detered by the police. and to those who choose to go unarmed i am hope there is a better american around in your moment of need for i will probably be deployed.

Mike H. | 3:04 p.m. Nov. 16, 2007

To Bob G: Here, here. My feelings exactly.
For these people that don't want to carry a gun, that's fine, they don't have to. They should be glad that an honest, law abiding citizen is willing to take on the responsibility to protect them if the chips are ever down. Those that criticise open or concealed weapons carry have shifted their responsibility to those that do, and that includes shifting their responsibility to the police officer who will most likely arrive after the fact. (In most situations, the police are a "reactive" force that arrive after the crime has been committed. This is not a critique of the police.)

Uphold the Constitution | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 26, 2007

Any coward who fears the proper exercise of constitutionally guaranteed rights, please consider the words of the founders of the Constitution.

Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

And to those who labor under the delusion that the second amendment refers to anything other than a citizen's protection against a corrupt government, read the words of Jefferson and Washington.

Thomas Jefferson quote: "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government".

George Washington- "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."

Study the Constitution and the Founders' original intent. Don't allow your fear of guns to distort the truth. If the Constitution offends you, move to a socialist country with gun control.

Andrew | 9:05 p.m. Jan. 8, 2008

To throw in my two cents. Like Tacomatose, I happen to have spent a lot of time talking to the people who were at this event. They are not crazy, paranoid people. They are honest, law-abiding Americans with a real concern for the safety of themeselves, their families, and their friends. They train often with their weapons and know the law better than most lawyers when it comes to deadly force and legally carrying. While those of you who do not carry have no reason to argue one way or the other (remember, this is America, you do not have the right to not be offended), those of you who choose to conceal can at least concede that carrying openly would be physically more comfortable with a larger handgun for all day carry. Those of you who would argue with this must live in a magic place with no hot weather. While many carry openly for political and educational reasons, as a gun carrier myself, I can assure you that OC is much more comfortable than CC.

For those of you who are obviously just plain anti-gun, YOU are the ones with irrational fears.

Theodore | 11:49 p.m. Jan. 12, 2008

i read a comment speaking about 'police offices open-carrying with only a tiny strap with a small steel snap holding the gun' not being a safe way to stop from being disarmed by a 'bad guy' and my only response was to shake my head and laugh... there is much more to the engineering of a retention strap that prevents from accidental disarming or your firearm being lifted from you unknowingly. the strap due to its placement, can really only be undone from the angle of the holster's wearer, and most importantly the armed civilian / officer would most certainly be aware of his surroundings, and most likely have his elbow locked at his strong side in an always defensive stance (ask any carrier with an iq higher than their shoe size)

keep doing what you are doing, excersize your right to defend your daughter, son, wife, husband or friend, neighbor, or stranger because his/her life is worth it.

JeffLrrp | 6:44 p.m. May 11, 2008

I've read through a few hundred comments on this page already. Notice how those who have taken steps to ensure their own safety use logic and facts to back their positions up. Those who don't like guns or think they're scary just start commenting on how the world will turn into a MAD MAX type society if any more law abiding citizens choose to carry a gun

trail dust | 11:11 a.m. Feb. 19, 2009

I am going to take a ccw clas this sat.In michigan you are required an 8 hour class.5hour classroom with laws and 3 hours on the gun range.In MI. concealment is the law with permit.But,how many banks or stores or any place for that matter,would get heldup or robbed,or a woman rapped if the perpatrator saw people all around him carrying guns?I believe he would think twice.Criminals will always be able to get weapons.There is always a good guy willing to sell out for the right price.

Shellback - Grantsville, Utah | 1:35 p.m. Oct. 26, 2009

Gee AVA...your right - I guess people would be much better off just being targets for criminals instead of taking responsibility for themselves..... its a good thing I'm not required by the Constitution to ensure that your COMFORTABLE with my lifestyle...

Wow...what a nation of weak-minded sheep most people have become. Because some of you are passive cowards you therefore expect all others to adhere to your ethic. AND Greta lest we forget about you - your a massive tool and a cake-eater...since you seem to like quoting phony statistics, I suggest you get your numbers straight. Check Dr. Lott's website (he's done ACTUAL research) or better yet - go straight to the Dept of Justice (DOJ) and quit getting your "data" from Gun Control Inc and other biased sources. Your ignorance is spellbinding.

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