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Romney won't 'take orders' from church
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Dofus | 6:39 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Ole' Mitt is so slick. He was one of us during the Olympics. He shook the
dust off his feet and went to "taxachusetts". He dumped them to run
for President. Seems it is about time the electorate shook the dust off their
feet and told him to hit the road. What would it matter to him? He's got
millions to salve his rejected ego. Sorry Mitt, sometimes you win, sometimes
you lose.
Fredd | 6:40 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Doug,
I meant one single individual appointed to lead and speak for God. I kind of butchered my post. While I know a faithful Mormon would say Prophets are only human, I think you understand my point. To a faithful Mormon or Catholic it would be difficult (in a hypothetical world) to disobey a prophet/pope. I don't think there are very many Momons out there who would blindly folow a single prophet in a radical departure from traditional behavior. Not shopping on Sundays and such has long traditions in the U.S. Same with quirky liquor laws. I asked a hypothetical that some took offense to but very few answered. If polygamy were restored tomorrow would anyone out there practise it? Assume Supreme Court legalized it and the Prophet said it was necessary for church survival (Sisters marrying out of the faith, lack of preisthoood holders etc)
I meant one single individual appointed to lead and speak for God. I kind of butchered my post. While I know a faithful Mormon would say Prophets are only human, I think you understand my point. To a faithful Mormon or Catholic it would be difficult (in a hypothetical world) to disobey a prophet/pope. I don't think there are very many Momons out there who would blindly folow a single prophet in a radical departure from traditional behavior. Not shopping on Sundays and such has long traditions in the U.S. Same with quirky liquor laws. I asked a hypothetical that some took offense to but very few answered. If polygamy were restored tomorrow would anyone out there practise it? Assume Supreme Court legalized it and the Prophet said it was necessary for church survival (Sisters marrying out of the faith, lack of preisthoood holders etc)
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 8:04 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
What would you Mormons like, a Theocracy? Unbelievable that you cannot
understand and appreciate the importance of Mitt - or ANY US President - NOT
having a conflict of interest with his subordination to some religious
authority. The US President must be sovereign from such influences, and is only
accountable to the people of the US. That is an essential foundation of a
democratic republic such as ours.
Anonymous | 8:51 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
If he becomes president I'm moving to Canada.
voiceofreason | 9:00 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
ok, I've heard enough of this stupid rhetoric. Mitt Romney was right on.
What he said was the truth. The man has done HIS homework about what the
church's official stand on politics is, why don't the rest of you do
YOURS. Here's what the church ACTUALLY SAYS ABOUT IT on LDS.org:
Political Neutrality
The Church�s mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral in matters of party politics. This applies in all of the many nations in which it is established.
The Church does not:
Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
* Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
* Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
* Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.
Political Neutrality
The Church�s mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral in matters of party politics. This applies in all of the many nations in which it is established.
The Church does not:
Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
* Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
* Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
* Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.
voiceofreason | 9:02 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
(continued)
The Church does:
Encourage its members to play a role as responsible citizens in their communities, including becoming informed about issues and voting in elections.
Expect its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting the fact that members of the Church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters.
* Request candidates for office not to imply that their candidacy or platforms are endorsed by the Church.
* Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church.
In the United States, where nearly half of the world�s Latter-day Saints live, it is customary for the Church at each national election to issue a letter to be read to all congregations encouraging its members to vote, but emphasizing the Church�s neutrality in partisan political matters.
The Church does:
Encourage its members to play a role as responsible citizens in their communities, including becoming informed about issues and voting in elections.
Expect its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting the fact that members of the Church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters.
* Request candidates for office not to imply that their candidacy or platforms are endorsed by the Church.
* Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church.
In the United States, where nearly half of the world�s Latter-day Saints live, it is customary for the Church at each national election to issue a letter to be read to all congregations encouraging its members to vote, but emphasizing the Church�s neutrality in partisan political matters.
voiceofreason | 9:05 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
(continued)
Relationships With Government
Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent.
THERE!! That's the church's official position!! Mitt Romney said exactly what he should have said. That wasn't political positioning, that was actually standing up for what the church's position really is. GET OVER IT.
Relationships With Government
Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent.
THERE!! That's the church's official position!! Mitt Romney said exactly what he should have said. That wasn't political positioning, that was actually standing up for what the church's position really is. GET OVER IT.
Common Sense | 11:27 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Just think...Mitt has to say this an abide by it. If he is elected, every
decision he will make will be scrutinized to ensure the church had no part in
the decision. Can you imagine the drama if someone suspected he made a decision
based on what the church told him.
Give the guy a little credit. He didn't make his millions by having the church tell him what to do. He's a smart guy that can make the correct decisions without the church telling him what to do. Also, the church has an interest to stay out of the White House. The church is smart too...they aren't going to want its name on the war and other social issues the country is facing...give the church credit for the restraint it has shown towards Romney so far and the restraint it will show if he is elected.
He isn't my favorite candidate, but he'd be a fine president, especially since the country would expect him to maintain separation from church and state more than any other president in history. Mitt knows he can't have those secret meetings with the prophet all you antis fear he'd have.
Give the guy a little credit. He didn't make his millions by having the church tell him what to do. He's a smart guy that can make the correct decisions without the church telling him what to do. Also, the church has an interest to stay out of the White House. The church is smart too...they aren't going to want its name on the war and other social issues the country is facing...give the church credit for the restraint it has shown towards Romney so far and the restraint it will show if he is elected.
He isn't my favorite candidate, but he'd be a fine president, especially since the country would expect him to maintain separation from church and state more than any other president in history. Mitt knows he can't have those secret meetings with the prophet all you antis fear he'd have.
Mike | 11:52 p.m. Oct. 22, 2007
Don't get caught up with everything Mitt says if you are LDS and think his
comments could be harsh towards the church or not in accordance with church
teachings, even if you are a former bishop and stake president...It really makes
you look ignorant and narrow-minded...just the way aniti-mormons want us to
look.
Just be thankful that you don't have cameras on you 24/7 scrutinizing everything you say...besides, we are imperfect people...I'm sure Mitt would even admit that he's imperfect.
If you're so worried about dissent from church teachings, there is always Rudi or McCain...We know Rudi's values...Not many people really know McCain's...They just think he's conservative because he's a Mississippi transplant who calls Arizona home. Read McCain's book...Faith of my Fathers and you'll see his true moral values....McCain is a wildman, but not to totally judge him unfairly, I will give him credit that he has grown up a little over the years.
Just be thankful that you don't have cameras on you 24/7 scrutinizing everything you say...besides, we are imperfect people...I'm sure Mitt would even admit that he's imperfect.
If you're so worried about dissent from church teachings, there is always Rudi or McCain...We know Rudi's values...Not many people really know McCain's...They just think he's conservative because he's a Mississippi transplant who calls Arizona home. Read McCain's book...Faith of my Fathers and you'll see his true moral values....McCain is a wildman, but not to totally judge him unfairly, I will give him credit that he has grown up a little over the years.
Hey DMN | 12:12 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
Hire a decent staff writer, I am not Mormon, but you do not have to be to smell
the rank posion in the way the article is articulated.
Saw the debet last night and ole Mac is about to loose his cool and show america that he's been foolin the public for years. POW, I think he has gotten all the miles out of that then he ever dreamed.
Saw the debet last night and ole Mac is about to loose his cool and show america that he's been foolin the public for years. POW, I think he has gotten all the miles out of that then he ever dreamed.
Lew Jeppson | 12:33 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
There's only one man in the Republican field whom I believe would be driven
by principle, and that's Ron Paul.
Sarah | 1:24 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
How unfortunate that so many good people are so blind that they can't see
what a racket the mormon church is. All you need is the faith to believe that
the One and only God can do anything, and that includes passing His Word down
through the generations exactly as He intended. Joe Smith and Brigham Young were
false prophets; all you have to do is do the research to see how many did not
come true. We don't need a blind president. Vote NO on Mitt Romney.
Larry J | 1:34 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
I have no problem with Brother Romney saying, "I wouldn't listen to
them [the church] on an issue that related to our nation."
I see nothing worng with that.
But then I'm not Mormon.
I see nothing worng with that.
But then I'm not Mormon.
Wondering | 3:03 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
What does Mitt Romney really personally believe? It seems he's not able to
express himself. What are spiritual leaders for if not to give guidance and
then we make up our own minds. Mitt--don't be afraid to stand up for what
you believe!
Dutchman | 7:59 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
Mike Huckabee is gaining support and may over take Romney for the Republican
nomination. He is a baptist minister but does not have to answer the same
questions Romney does about his religion. Since baptist ministers have
overwhelmingly over the decades preached anti-mormonism to their congregations I
beleive Americans need to know what Huckabee has said about Mormonism. The last
thing we need is an anti-mormon politician in the white house.
Anonymous | 8:07 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
EVIDENTLY MR ROMNEY IS TURNING OUT TO BE A DISAPPOINTMENT TO THE STATE OF UTAH.
East Coast | 8:23 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
First I would like to say thanks to VoiceofReason for pointing out that Mitt
Romney was practically quoting from the Church's position on political
neutrality:
"Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent."
He might have been somewhat off-base saying that he would take no input since we're Americans too and we pay taxes and vote like other Americans.
I find it weird that a conservative Mormon politician can't count on the backing of the conservative Mormon vote. You get all offended over the fact that he is a politician. For goodness sake, the point of being a politician is to work with the different parts of society to make compromises so we can all live together and protect everyone's rights. Compromising to get something done politically is not compromising your soul! Grow up.
"Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent."
He might have been somewhat off-base saying that he would take no input since we're Americans too and we pay taxes and vote like other Americans.
I find it weird that a conservative Mormon politician can't count on the backing of the conservative Mormon vote. You get all offended over the fact that he is a politician. For goodness sake, the point of being a politician is to work with the different parts of society to make compromises so we can all live together and protect everyone's rights. Compromising to get something done politically is not compromising your soul! Grow up.
East Coast | 8:39 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
Second I would like to review the choices if you are a conservative
Republican.
1. Guiliani. Nothing conservative about him.
2. McCain. I voted for him eight years ago but he's simply too old now.
3. Thompson. He's been campaigning in our state and I would just like to say that I can barely understand him when he talks. It would give me the heebie jeebies to listen to him talking for four years.
4. Romney.
5. Ron Paul. His campaign will go the way of Howard Dean's.
6. Everyone else. That about says it.
So if you're not for Romney, what is a conservative voter going to do? Vote for Clinton or Obama? I would suggest Bill Richardson or Christopher Dodd. Certainly not Romney. After all, you've read two or three quotes from him that indicate that he would not be the great spiritual follower that "Wondering" at 3:03 am is looking for. Honestly. I guess _your_ parents did not tell you not to believe everything you read.
1. Guiliani. Nothing conservative about him.
2. McCain. I voted for him eight years ago but he's simply too old now.
3. Thompson. He's been campaigning in our state and I would just like to say that I can barely understand him when he talks. It would give me the heebie jeebies to listen to him talking for four years.
4. Romney.
5. Ron Paul. His campaign will go the way of Howard Dean's.
6. Everyone else. That about says it.
So if you're not for Romney, what is a conservative voter going to do? Vote for Clinton or Obama? I would suggest Bill Richardson or Christopher Dodd. Certainly not Romney. After all, you've read two or three quotes from him that indicate that he would not be the great spiritual follower that "Wondering" at 3:03 am is looking for. Honestly. I guess _your_ parents did not tell you not to believe everything you read.
Anonymous | 9:46 a.m. Oct. 23, 2007
Dear "East Coast": Today's 'conservatives' favor the
assertive use of American power abroad to spread American values--something of a
bad name today.
America needs change and change is in the wind.
Thank God.
America needs change and change is in the wind.
Thank God.
To Anonymous | 12:04 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007
If you were to re-read my comments, I do not in any place admit to being a
"conservative." When I said "we" in my comments I was
referring to religion and not political ideology. Neocons give me hives.
I'm itching right now. I simply find it odd that conservative Rush
Limbaugh-listening, George-Bush supporting Utah Republicans are so conflicted
about supporting Romney when they really have no viable alternatives.
I wish I had a viable alternative. Give me a Scranton style pro-life Democrat like Senator Bob Casey Junior any day (and I'm not a Democrat either).
East Coast
I wish I had a viable alternative. Give me a Scranton style pro-life Democrat like Senator Bob Casey Junior any day (and I'm not a Democrat either).
East Coast
Always the "L" word | 12:56 p.m. Oct. 23, 2007
When the word "conservative" is used today, (especially in this
community) it is supposed to represent all that is good opposed to the word
"liberal" that is supposed to mean all that is bad. Nobody would have
ever guessed the bloated, OxyContin-inspired "conservative" guru like
Rush Limbaugh would have so much influence over so many people. Buy he clearly
does.
Gene | 10:52 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
The people that control this site has deleted my previous posts; but who knows,
maybe this one will get through. Perhaps my previous were to valid and real and
to the point.
Romney just lost my vote, as if he really ever had it. but mostly, he is proving you don't have to be a member of the mormon religion 24x7. He no doubt has a temple recommend, when will he turn it in? to have one, aren't you supposed to sustain and support the leaders of the church?
If anything, where is bishop and stake president. One can only look at his comments as approaching apposity. I welcome the opportunity that if I am ever in his ward I will raise my hand in opposition to any calling he might have. Amen to this brother's soul.
Romney just lost my vote, as if he really ever had it. but mostly, he is proving you don't have to be a member of the mormon religion 24x7. He no doubt has a temple recommend, when will he turn it in? to have one, aren't you supposed to sustain and support the leaders of the church?
If anything, where is bishop and stake president. One can only look at his comments as approaching apposity. I welcome the opportunity that if I am ever in his ward I will raise my hand in opposition to any calling he might have. Amen to this brother's soul.
Halwrite | 8:50 a.m. Oct. 25, 2007
While I am not a member of the LDS Church, I have read the BOM and the D&C
and the Pearl of Great Price. I find that with respect to seperation of church
and state,the LDS church is the only religous institution I know of that
specifically proscribes in its doctrine any interference with government or
government officials in the legitimate pursuit of their duties and
responsibilities. There may be reasons not to support Governor Romney, but his
church is not one of them. Many of those railing against the church on this
issue should examine their own relgious institution's doctrines (or lack
thereof) regarding church and state.
Mark Miller | 9:06 a.m. Oct. 25, 2007
Romney is running for US President, not just to make a statement and be the
political poster boy for the LDS Church. Which means if elected he will be under
oath to uphold the US Constitution. He's just trying to say that is what he
is going to do.
It's about separation of Church and state. A previous comment was correct when he meant he would not be dictated to. He didn't say he would cut off all ties to the Church and never talk to Church leaders again.
Besides, the prophet would never to go to the president to comment on his political policy. And even if he did the president is not bound in any way to follow that council. If he was, that would be dictating public policy (which the church has said it won't do) and would violate separation of church and state.
The last time I voted democrat I wasn't under the impression I would be excommunicated. And if you want to see how the church gets involved in politics just look at how the church got involved in the debate over the definition of marriage - grassroots through the members.
It's about separation of Church and state. A previous comment was correct when he meant he would not be dictated to. He didn't say he would cut off all ties to the Church and never talk to Church leaders again.
Besides, the prophet would never to go to the president to comment on his political policy. And even if he did the president is not bound in any way to follow that council. If he was, that would be dictating public policy (which the church has said it won't do) and would violate separation of church and state.
The last time I voted democrat I wasn't under the impression I would be excommunicated. And if you want to see how the church gets involved in politics just look at how the church got involved in the debate over the definition of marriage - grassroots through the members.
Judgment Day | 11:28 a.m. Oct. 25, 2007
Where does anyone get off questioning someone else's dedication to his/her
faith? Folks here are passing judgment on Romney and essentially saying he
doesn't follow the prophet because he stated that the church wouldn't
interfere with his presidency and he wouldn't allow them to.
Fortunately, Mitt Romney doesn't have to answer to you in the hereafter. Worry about your own spiritual state before self-righteously condemning others.
Fortunately, Mitt Romney doesn't have to answer to you in the hereafter. Worry about your own spiritual state before self-righteously condemning others.
Anonymous | 2:56 p.m. Oct. 25, 2007
Romney can worship the man in the moon if he wants.
Who cares?
He is STILL a politician who supports the assertive use of American power abroad to spread American values- something of a bad name today.
And that is why he will never be president. We've been there - done that.
Who cares?
He is STILL a politician who supports the assertive use of American power abroad to spread American values- something of a bad name today.
And that is why he will never be president. We've been there - done that.
Thomas | 4:22 p.m. Oct. 26, 2007
Anon 2:56, I've never heard Romney say he supports "the assertive use
of American power abroad to spread American values." I *have* heard him
say he will be assertive in using American power in defense of American
*interests*, including military power if critical enough interests (like our
interest in preventing Iran, which views us as an eternal enemy, from obtaining
a nuclear weapon) are involved.
I wouldn't vote for anyone who would not be that assertive.
I think it was Robert Frost who defined a liberal as a man who was too fair-minded to take his own side in an argument. Being fair-minded is wonderful, in proper doses -- but I've seen enough litigation to know that the equities are often closely balanced, and at some point, you just have to put your head down and work hard for the side you happen to be on.
Too many liberals go so far out of their way to be "fair" that they literally become the devil's advocate. For the record, I don't think the equities of America's present dispute with Iran are even close -- but even if it they were, I want someone who'd confidently advocate for our side.
I wouldn't vote for anyone who would not be that assertive.
I think it was Robert Frost who defined a liberal as a man who was too fair-minded to take his own side in an argument. Being fair-minded is wonderful, in proper doses -- but I've seen enough litigation to know that the equities are often closely balanced, and at some point, you just have to put your head down and work hard for the side you happen to be on.
Too many liberals go so far out of their way to be "fair" that they literally become the devil's advocate. For the record, I don't think the equities of America's present dispute with Iran are even close -- but even if it they were, I want someone who'd confidently advocate for our side.
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Where are your values Mitt? As a former bishop and stake president, it would appear you have no real faith to base on which to base your beliefs as you affirm. Too much like "a wave driven up on the sea and tossed."