Reader comments
Prominent Dallas minister says Romney no Christian
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John Pack Lambert | 2:04 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
I just have to speak out against another lie. COntarary to what was written by
one of the posters, Barak Obama was never a Muslim.
For the record, I do not think it would be bad if he had been. However I believe in truth and so would argue for it.
For the record, I do not think it would be bad if he had been. However I believe in truth and so would argue for it.
Anonymous | 2:12 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Who really knows about Romney (didn't he flip-flop on the gay and abortion
issues?)
And who really knows about Joseph Smith for that matter? (he was either telling the truth or was a liar)
What we have today are so-called "Christians" trying to out-Christian other Christians.
And who really knows about Joseph Smith for that matter? (he was either telling the truth or was a liar)
What we have today are so-called "Christians" trying to out-Christian other Christians.
Comments continue below
John Pack Lambert | 2:13 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
I just have to defend being worked up. Church members have been writting book
for years that argue that the church is CHristian, and I have heard many, many
talks to this effect in general conference.
The only thing that has changed is we know get this issue played out in the mainstream press and not just in Latter-day Saint and Evangelical publications.
The only thing that has changed is we know get this issue played out in the mainstream press and not just in Latter-day Saint and Evangelical publications.
Anonymous | 2:46 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Book of Mormon, Moroni, 8, says infant baptism is an abomination.
Is this how brotherhood is spread between Mormons and Catholics? Can Mormons understand how Catholics might view them for this?
Is this how brotherhood is spread between Mormons and Catholics? Can Mormons understand how Catholics might view them for this?
Chicago Perspective | 2:54 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Long ago I made the decision not to let random ministers in Dallas define my
faith for me. I will do that for myself.
In hindsight, that looks like a wise decision.
In hindsight, that looks like a wise decision.
Silliness | 4:27 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
you have a copy of where baptist give a definition christians? and where exactly
do you have your source, I'd like to get a copy of that for future
reference
Silliness2 | 5:16 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Yes the source is baptist/protestant tracts that I have received over the years.
Usually they are titled, "Are Mormons Christians" or something like that.
Each time I came upon one of these and read through them. It became very clear that what they meant by Christian was Baptist/Protestant. The rules also exclude Catholics because they always say that Christians believe that the Bible is the only source of the word of God. This excludes the Pope, so Catholics are not Christians also.
So I came to the conclusion that it is true, Mormons and Catholics are not Christians according to their definition.
I am sure you can find similar tracts or information on the internet. You may be able to get this tract from a local baptist or protestant church. I have seen it around many times.
The problem is that they have created a definition automatically excludes other religions that believe in Christ but do not have the same exact teachings.
The whole discussion becomes pointless.
Usually they are titled, "Are Mormons Christians" or something like that.
Each time I came upon one of these and read through them. It became very clear that what they meant by Christian was Baptist/Protestant. The rules also exclude Catholics because they always say that Christians believe that the Bible is the only source of the word of God. This excludes the Pope, so Catholics are not Christians also.
So I came to the conclusion that it is true, Mormons and Catholics are not Christians according to their definition.
I am sure you can find similar tracts or information on the internet. You may be able to get this tract from a local baptist or protestant church. I have seen it around many times.
The problem is that they have created a definition automatically excludes other religions that believe in Christ but do not have the same exact teachings.
The whole discussion becomes pointless.
catholic means universal | 5:32 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
The history of Christianity is well-known. It started in Rome. Different groups
protested for one reason or the other (Mormon protestants included) but the
original church is still standing infant baptism and all.
Silliness | 6:13 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Funny I thought that historically speaking Christianity started with Jesus in
today's Israel. If we want to speak strictly historically lets be honest.
Certain Churches started at different locations. But Christianity is generally accepted as starting with Christ, who lived in what is today Israel.
Certain Churches started at different locations. But Christianity is generally accepted as starting with Christ, who lived in what is today Israel.
Anonymous | 6:56 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent
a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth
century." - Prophet John Taylor
"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith
"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith
Sillness | 7:42 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Couldn't find a tract like that but help me find the publisher, I've
never read where baptist have their own definition for a christian, just wonder
because you spoke as you had such information. The folks I enjoy dialog with we
look at resource material, just I heard it or I read it somewhere is considered
out of bounds. Sorry you couldn't find the source it up it would have been
helpful for discussion.
anon | 8:03 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
"The only men who become Gods, ever the Sons of God , ae those whoenter
into polygamy" Journal of Discourese 11:269
"Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified and they would atone for their sins and be received into the kingdowm of God. I would do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have ho wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands"
Brigham Young March 16, 1856: SLT
Some how that sure doesn't sound like Christianity but if you say so I can have many wives and if I fool around you kill me and we all go to heaven, wow and I thought it was hard to get there.
"Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified and they would atone for their sins and be received into the kingdowm of God. I would do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have ho wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands"
Brigham Young March 16, 1856: SLT
Some how that sure doesn't sound like Christianity but if you say so I can have many wives and if I fool around you kill me and we all go to heaven, wow and I thought it was hard to get there.
Correction | 8:11 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
The only men who become Gods, ever the Sonds of God, are those who enter in to
polygamy. Journal of Discourses 11:269
please forgive the spelling | 8:18 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
wow two tries and I still mispelled even, Sons. Joseph Smith is rubbing off on
me I to feel like an illiterate. My apologies, just look it up for
yourselves....lol
Silliness | 8:41 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
I found a good source with tells the same story as the tracts I have found in
the past. Here is how to find it. Go to the ASK search engine. Type
"mormons christians" without the quotes. The eighth listing down says
"Mormonism - Does it follow Jesus Christ?" The site is
ChristianAnswers dot net. It takes you through a list of questions comparing
differences in "Christian" and "Mormon" doctrine step by
step. The fourth point relates to the Bible being the only source of authority,
so Catholics are out.
The necessary conclusion is Catholics and Mormons are not Christian because they are not Protestant.
It is obvious that Mormons and Catholics are not Protestants. They are not interested in being Protestant, so the whole thing is silly and pointless but some people get a lot of mileage out of thoughtless word and definition games.
I am sure there are similar lists out there like this, the game has been played for many years.
The necessary conclusion is Catholics and Mormons are not Christian because they are not Protestant.
It is obvious that Mormons and Catholics are not Protestants. They are not interested in being Protestant, so the whole thing is silly and pointless but some people get a lot of mileage out of thoughtless word and definition games.
I am sure there are similar lists out there like this, the game has been played for many years.
Wow, Politics and Religion | 9:22 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Now this thread on this story is over 200 entries long........
Isn't it amazing that so many statements, opinions,
and other such can come out of these two subjects when mixed together?? Makes for good reading....
Beats the boredom of typical commercial TV, right??
Thank you Mitt Romney, JFK, and George W. Bush, and many, many, many others. The rest of this year and next year until early November will bring up much more to read and debate and to ponder about.
I'm not being sarcastic, It IS Great to live in a democratic country where there IS Separation of Church and State and the Freedom to go to any church or to not go if chosen, and to vote for anyone that makes it to the ballot. There's even room for "write in" candidates on the ballot.
People 200 to 300 years ago fought and died for that right to have "decision power". In some countries that fight is still going on.....
God Bless America!!!
Isn't it amazing that so many statements, opinions,
and other such can come out of these two subjects when mixed together?? Makes for good reading....
Beats the boredom of typical commercial TV, right??
Thank you Mitt Romney, JFK, and George W. Bush, and many, many, many others. The rest of this year and next year until early November will bring up much more to read and debate and to ponder about.
I'm not being sarcastic, It IS Great to live in a democratic country where there IS Separation of Church and State and the Freedom to go to any church or to not go if chosen, and to vote for anyone that makes it to the ballot. There's even room for "write in" candidates on the ballot.
People 200 to 300 years ago fought and died for that right to have "decision power". In some countries that fight is still going on.....
God Bless America!!!
define Christianity | 11:59 p.m. Oct. 24, 2007
Who's definition do you use? Is it the one that says there is one god? Or
the one that says there are many gods?
Mainstream Protestants and Catholics believe in one spiritual God, three personages. Mormons believe in multiple Gods, each unique with physical bodies.
There is quite a difference between the two.
Both claim to live there lives by following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Therefore both sides are correct in calling themselves Christians, or Christ followers.
How about the "Church of Jesus Christ Aryan Nations"?
Mainstream Protestants and Catholics believe in one spiritual God, three personages. Mormons believe in multiple Gods, each unique with physical bodies.
There is quite a difference between the two.
Both claim to live there lives by following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Therefore both sides are correct in calling themselves Christians, or Christ followers.
How about the "Church of Jesus Christ Aryan Nations"?
silliness | 6:28 a.m. Oct. 25, 2007
those are not baptist publications, you said there was a baptist definition,
that was your point. I wanted proof because Christian mainstreams for years
have called LDS JW and the likes cults. I thought you stumbled on some
definitive information sorry for your trouble.
Brigham and the Journal | 4:02 p.m. Oct. 25, 2007
Many anti-Mormon writers quote from the Journal of Discourses.
Not everything that Brigham said is Necessarily
"official" Doctrine. Brigham, like many can "ramble" about things too. Not everything said
is revelation. There's room for personal flavor
and opinion... Official Revelations is generally so stated.
If one carefully checks the Journal of Discourses,
Brigham did say at least once some to the effect that now that (I, Brigham) have talked/rambled on for several days, LET'S NOW Listen to what the Lord has Said.....
That too is in the J of D.
Not everything that Brigham said is Necessarily
"official" Doctrine. Brigham, like many can "ramble" about things too. Not everything said
is revelation. There's room for personal flavor
and opinion... Official Revelations is generally so stated.
If one carefully checks the Journal of Discourses,
Brigham did say at least once some to the effect that now that (I, Brigham) have talked/rambled on for several days, LET'S NOW Listen to what the Lord has Said.....
That too is in the J of D.
Wake-up | 10:17 p.m. Oct. 28, 2007
SFCFRETDENNIS and Wrong,
I've read more about your religion and doctrine (LDS authors)then you have read about Christianity, obviously. Mormonism and Christianity are as far apart as the east is from the west.
By your current prophet's admission, the Jesus in the Bible is not the Jesus defined by J.S.
'Comments on Elder Holland' is an example of the extent to investigating Christianity. Just ask the bishop or go to conference...how easy and ignorant is that?!!
I've read more about your religion and doctrine (LDS authors)then you have read about Christianity, obviously. Mormonism and Christianity are as far apart as the east is from the west.
By your current prophet's admission, the Jesus in the Bible is not the Jesus defined by J.S.
'Comments on Elder Holland' is an example of the extent to investigating Christianity. Just ask the bishop or go to conference...how easy and ignorant is that?!!
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On the other hand, I would have to say I very rarely have heard such comments, and most comments are positive towards others. On the same note, a better analogy for Jeffereies comments would be statements by a Bishop or other church leader.