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Trolley Square survivor calls need for tighter gun laws 'obvious'
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Bob G | 6:31 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Gun laws don't stop crimes or the actions of the mentally ill or
physcopaths. Gun laws to allow more self defense actions are what we need.
Disarming the american people is not going to fix the acts of criminals and
their actions. People getting shot and killed are the results of strict gun
laws. The more you try to control guns the more violence and crimes grows.
It's not the gun laws that need to be changed, it's the justice system
that needs to be changed and enforcement of criminal detention.
Tom | 6:56 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
I'm sorry, but once again these people are completely oblivious to reality.
How many laws did he break already? How difficult is it for some people to
grasp that criminals are so named because they BREAK THE LAW? Let the innocent
carry to defend themselves instead of wishing there was a cop around the corner.
You may very well be dead if the off duty officer hadn't been there with a
gun. Your efforts to deny those not in the presence of an officer a chance at
survival are appalling and subhuman. I wish you a speedy recovery, but I wish
for every possible stumbling block in your path to disarming the innocent who do
not want to be prey for the mentally deranged murders that walk among us. spend
your time working on the social problems that contribute to the real problem
rather then blaming an inanimate object.
Comments continue below
Mahershalalhashbaz | 7:43 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Yes we are becoming uncivilized, but outlawing guns will accomplish nothing
except that the uncivilized will then be able to wreak havoc on the civilized.
What we needed were more people at trolley square with concealed weapons.
The thing that really needs to be outlawed because it kills WAY more people (like 1000 times more people than guns) in the US is illicit drugs. We need to do something about Heroin, Meth, cocaine etc Why haven't we outlawed these things? I demand that we outlaw them! Oh wait, we did, but uncivilized people still manage to get them from uncivilized people in other countries. Isn't that amazing. Same story with guns. If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.... How many times do we have to say that before you phony liberals wake up? Also, then if we are attacked by another country or by our own government which sees that we are sitting ducks, then we lose our freedom.
The thing that really needs to be outlawed because it kills WAY more people (like 1000 times more people than guns) in the US is illicit drugs. We need to do something about Heroin, Meth, cocaine etc Why haven't we outlawed these things? I demand that we outlaw them! Oh wait, we did, but uncivilized people still manage to get them from uncivilized people in other countries. Isn't that amazing. Same story with guns. If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.... How many times do we have to say that before you phony liberals wake up? Also, then if we are attacked by another country or by our own government which sees that we are sitting ducks, then we lose our freedom.
Dave | 8:10 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Gun control is not about guns, it is about control
Criminals love gun control, it makes there job easier and safer.
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, POEPLE KILL PEOPLE
Criminals love gun control, it makes there job easier and safer.
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, POEPLE KILL PEOPLE
just as obvious | 8:12 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Who among us doesn't feel sympathy for victims of violent crime? But should
we allow our emotions to dictate what laws are passed?
The facts are: Talovic broke the law when he went on his murderous rampage. He broke the law when he acquired at least one, and maybe both, of his guns. He violated the "No Guns" policy of Trolley Square. There are currently over 20,000 gun laws on the books in America. None of them stopped him and the Dept. of Justice has published the results of a study of those laws and could not provide evidence that they had been successful in stopping any gun crime. Criminals "just laughed at gun laws". Gun laws do not work. The only thing that stopped Talovic was another man with a gun. Thanks to him the body count was much lower than it could have been.
The facts are: Talovic broke the law when he went on his murderous rampage. He broke the law when he acquired at least one, and maybe both, of his guns. He violated the "No Guns" policy of Trolley Square. There are currently over 20,000 gun laws on the books in America. None of them stopped him and the Dept. of Justice has published the results of a study of those laws and could not provide evidence that they had been successful in stopping any gun crime. Criminals "just laughed at gun laws". Gun laws do not work. The only thing that stopped Talovic was another man with a gun. Thanks to him the body count was much lower than it could have been.
kbute | 8:51 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
I agree with what everyone has said. Do you really think Talovic would have
obeyed a gun law? We do need to change the law though. We need to require
everyone to carry a gun.
Anonymous | 8:56 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
My heart goes out to you red necks when your child ends up taking your gun to
school or blowing themselves away during a rough time in their life. When was
the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen deterring crime because
they were packing heat? My guess is not as often as some of these other
tragedies.
Stereotypes, again | 9:34 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Anonymous recycles the old "wild-eyed redneck" stereotype.
What he/she fails to recognize is that highly-publicized shootings such as the ones at Trolley Square and Virginia Tech are the rare exception, not the rule.
(And in the two cases described above, they occurred in "gun free" zones).
The Politically-Incorrect fact is that most homicide victims as well as most murderers are minority males aged 18-25, and most of these homicides occur as a result of the drug trade and gang warfare.
The average white middle-class Utahn has about the same chance of being murdered as his British and Scandinavian cousins.
What he/she fails to recognize is that highly-publicized shootings such as the ones at Trolley Square and Virginia Tech are the rare exception, not the rule.
(And in the two cases described above, they occurred in "gun free" zones).
The Politically-Incorrect fact is that most homicide victims as well as most murderers are minority males aged 18-25, and most of these homicides occur as a result of the drug trade and gang warfare.
The average white middle-class Utahn has about the same chance of being murdered as his British and Scandinavian cousins.
Wild Deuce | 9:39 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
For Anon: "When was the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen
deterring crime because they were packing heat? My guess is not as often as some
of these other tragedies."
Please Google for the website "Civilian Gun Self-Defense Blog." Be sure to read every account and check the extensive archives. This is only one location where this information can be found. There are more if you are willing to look unless you prefer making guesses. However, you really should do some research before you "guess" ... you'll sound more intelligent.
Please Google for the website "Civilian Gun Self-Defense Blog." Be sure to read every account and check the extensive archives. This is only one location where this information can be found. There are more if you are willing to look unless you prefer making guesses. However, you really should do some research before you "guess" ... you'll sound more intelligent.
Anonymous | 9:42 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
"When was the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen deterring
crime because...." hmmm...isn't an off duty police officer a "gun
wielding citizen"? The "gun wielding citizen" saved many lives
that day. Let's be realistic, Police don't stop crime, they
investigate crime. Arm yourself.
Anonymous??? | 9:50 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007
You said "when was the last time you heard of some gun wielding citizen
deterring crime because they were packing heat"? Did you not follow the
Trolley Square shooting?? A gun wielding citizen, STOPPED this madman's
rampage!!! You call the people commenting "rednecks", however, when
some criminal breaks into your home to rape and pillage your family, I would be
willing to bet you don't want to WAIT for the police to show up! I bet you
would be wishing you had a gun, to blow away the scumbag that is violating you?!
If you want stiffer gun laws? Why not stiffer knife laws? Knives have been known
to kill people too! Why not stiffer rope laws? People have been strangled by
using rope! Why not stiffer driving laws?, last time I checked automobiles kill
more people daily than do guns!!!
If you want to deter criminals, make them accountable! Make their punishments severe enough that they know the consequences. Enforce the death penalty! Have crimianls turn big rocks into small rocks (like the old days). The problem is criminals are NOT AFRAID of their punishments!
If you want to deter criminals, make them accountable! Make their punishments severe enough that they know the consequences. Enforce the death penalty! Have crimianls turn big rocks into small rocks (like the old days). The problem is criminals are NOT AFRAID of their punishments!
Jonny Fairplay | 12:08 p.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Stereotypes again, there has been a substantial increase in homicides from guns
in Salt Lake City/County this year and not just among minorities. Mass shootings
are not the exception. We've become so blase about this problem a shooting
where 3, 4 or 5 lives are extinguished often doesn't make the national
news. A sad indictment of a violent society.
Jay | 1:24 p.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Jonny, did you know more people are killed every year by drunk drivers than by
all other means of homicide combined? That includes guns! Yet, I don't see
anyone calling for more alcohol control.
So who's being blase?
So who's being blase?
Disheartened | 1:52 p.m. Oct. 18, 2007
So...we aren't a more violent, uncivilized society? You "arm
everybody" gun freaks contradict yourselves. If it's necessary that
everyone be armed to be safe, that qualifies the fact that we are indeed a
violent and yes, uncivilized society.
2nd Amendment | 2:05 p.m. Oct. 18, 2007
To Jonny and Anonymouse, please consider the following statement from a wise
statesman who recently passed away:
"Weapons are the tools of power. Weapons compound man's power to achieve whatever purpose he may have...without them man is diminished and his opportunities to fulfill his destiny are lessened. An unarmed man can only flee from evil and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
Jeff Cooper
"Weapons are the tools of power. Weapons compound man's power to achieve whatever purpose he may have...without them man is diminished and his opportunities to fulfill his destiny are lessened. An unarmed man can only flee from evil and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
Jeff Cooper
Reese | 3:40 p.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Indeed, gun laws only affect the law-abiding.
ABC News' 20/20 presented "Myths, Lies and Straight Talk." This was a list of 10 media-fed myths. #5 - Guns are always bad for us" Here are a few highlights:
"The Centers for Disease Control recently completed a review of studies of various types of gun control: background checks, waiting periods, bans on certain guns and ammunition. It could not document that these rules have reduced violent crime."
"The government wants to say regulations and laws like the Brady Gun Control Law are making a difference, but they aren't. Some maximum security felons I spoke to in New Jersey scoffed at measures like the Brady law. They said they'll have no trouble getting guns if they want them."
"A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed."
Did you catch that? Felons fear armed citizens more than anything else.
"It's a reason many states are passing gun un-control."
That is what we need more of in America.
ABC News' 20/20 presented "Myths, Lies and Straight Talk." This was a list of 10 media-fed myths. #5 - Guns are always bad for us" Here are a few highlights:
"The Centers for Disease Control recently completed a review of studies of various types of gun control: background checks, waiting periods, bans on certain guns and ammunition. It could not document that these rules have reduced violent crime."
"The government wants to say regulations and laws like the Brady Gun Control Law are making a difference, but they aren't. Some maximum security felons I spoke to in New Jersey scoffed at measures like the Brady law. They said they'll have no trouble getting guns if they want them."
"A Justice Department study confirmed what the prisoners said. But get this: the felons say that the thing they fear the most is not the police, not time in prison, but, you, another American who might be armed."
Did you catch that? Felons fear armed citizens more than anything else.
"It's a reason many states are passing gun un-control."
That is what we need more of in America.
4 Disheartened | 3:43 p.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Do you think disarming everyone would create a non-violent civilized society? It
certainly hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried.
Jonny Fairplay | 5:51 p.m. Oct. 18, 2007
Jay, I am not blase about any loss of life, whether it be at the hands drunk
driver or someone with a gun. A common theme throughout this thread is why
change gun laws, they don't stop criminals who are intent on committing
crimes. If that's the case, why do we have any laws if they are going to be
broken anyway? Sounds like you want to pick and choose which laws should be
passed and enforced based on the criteria of whether it is your ox (guns) being
gored.
Miles Fortis | 1:17 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
No Jonny, we're not picking and choosing.
My sacred ox is the safety of me and mine.
We've understood that to overcome those with evil intent, one must NOT 'play fair'.
IF there were no such things as guns, humanity would be ruled again by the law of
"THE STRONGEST, QUICKEST WINS".
If the strongest happens to be of evil intent.
Evil wins.
Guns are the ultimate EQUALIZER!
The 80yo, 98lb arthritic can STOP the assault of a 20yo, 300lb dopehead, hell bent on mayhem.
ANYONE can put down a madmad, armed with whatever, who has decided that TODAY, he will have his 15min of fame.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to completely disarm those of evil intent. So be it! Therefore, the law-abiding MUST be armed. This isn't a collegiant exercise, it's life. Mine, others and YOURS.
The right of SELF DEFENSE is an inalienable one and the intrumentality of that defense is of no concern. The EASIEST to use, most EFFECTIVE instrument of self defense is A GUN.
You may decide not to have a gun. That's OK. You have the right to decide that. I have the right to decide too.
I will have a gun!
My sacred ox is the safety of me and mine.
We've understood that to overcome those with evil intent, one must NOT 'play fair'.
IF there were no such things as guns, humanity would be ruled again by the law of
"THE STRONGEST, QUICKEST WINS".
If the strongest happens to be of evil intent.
Evil wins.
Guns are the ultimate EQUALIZER!
The 80yo, 98lb arthritic can STOP the assault of a 20yo, 300lb dopehead, hell bent on mayhem.
ANYONE can put down a madmad, armed with whatever, who has decided that TODAY, he will have his 15min of fame.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to completely disarm those of evil intent. So be it! Therefore, the law-abiding MUST be armed. This isn't a collegiant exercise, it's life. Mine, others and YOURS.
The right of SELF DEFENSE is an inalienable one and the intrumentality of that defense is of no concern. The EASIEST to use, most EFFECTIVE instrument of self defense is A GUN.
You may decide not to have a gun. That's OK. You have the right to decide that. I have the right to decide too.
I will have a gun!
CSR | 5:25 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
It's funny how Anonymous, Jonny Fairplay, and Disheartened foolishly
believe the solution to a crime problem is to enact more laws that - surprise,
surprise! - the criminals will ignore anyway. Only those who obey the laws are
weakened, and become easier prey for criminals.
Want to do something with gun laws that will lower crime? Get rid of "gun free" zones. Study after study have shown that criminals fear an armed victim more than anything else, and go out of their way to ensure they have the upper hand.
Want to do something with gun laws that will lower crime? Get rid of "gun free" zones. Study after study have shown that criminals fear an armed victim more than anything else, and go out of their way to ensure they have the upper hand.
Skirmisher | 5:41 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
But it was a "gun free zone"! How dare the perp disobey that sign.
Thank goodness there was an off duty cop at the mall or the carnage would have
been a lot worse. Will someone please tell me just what law this perp would have
obeyed?
Bruce in NH | 7:58 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
To "Anonymous". who asks "When was the last time you heard of
some gun wielding citizen deterring crime because they were packing
heat?"
March 2007: 42-year-old Gracie Watson is walking to her car in the parking lot of the local Dollar Store, when she's ambushed by her husband, who proceeds to knock her to the ground, pin her down, stab her more than a dozen times, and soak her in gasoline.
He was in the process of lighting a match to set her beaten and bloody body on fire, when an armed citizen intervened, drawing his concealed weapon, and holding Mr. Watson at bay until the police and paramedics could arrive on the scene.
No shots fired. No innocents "gunned down in a fusillade of bullets". No "O.K. Corral shootouts". No "Wild West" vigilantism.
Gracie Watson is alive today for ONE REASON ONLY.
My question for you is:
How many dead Gracie Watsons are you willing to cede as payment to achieve your gun-free Utopia?
(Google the phrase "gracie watson would likely beg to differ" for more stories like that one)
March 2007: 42-year-old Gracie Watson is walking to her car in the parking lot of the local Dollar Store, when she's ambushed by her husband, who proceeds to knock her to the ground, pin her down, stab her more than a dozen times, and soak her in gasoline.
He was in the process of lighting a match to set her beaten and bloody body on fire, when an armed citizen intervened, drawing his concealed weapon, and holding Mr. Watson at bay until the police and paramedics could arrive on the scene.
No shots fired. No innocents "gunned down in a fusillade of bullets". No "O.K. Corral shootouts". No "Wild West" vigilantism.
Gracie Watson is alive today for ONE REASON ONLY.
My question for you is:
How many dead Gracie Watsons are you willing to cede as payment to achieve your gun-free Utopia?
(Google the phrase "gracie watson would likely beg to differ" for more stories like that one)
Wiz | 8:43 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
I find it sort of ironic he wants to get rid of all guns in a "gun free
zone" when it was a gun in the hands of a private citizen (because an
"off duty cop" is just a private citizen) which stopped the bad guy.
It just boggles the mind that people still think a criminal will obey a law,
when, by definition someone is a criminal because they disobey laws.
keith collins | 8:48 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
Was it not already a "Gun Free Zone?" What more do you want? How
about free, campaign-style buttons you can wear on your shirts that say,
"Bad guys: Stay away from me!" Yeah, THAT should do it! Makes as
much sense as most anti-gun laws.
You people are afraid to take responsibility for your own safety, but that isn't enough for you. You want me and my family to be as helpless as you are. Sorry, but (to partially quote poet Dylan Thomas) I'm not going to go gently into that dark night.
You people are afraid to take responsibility for your own safety, but that isn't enough for you. You want me and my family to be as helpless as you are. Sorry, but (to partially quote poet Dylan Thomas) I'm not going to go gently into that dark night.
Haris Pilton | 8:54 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
Yes it is a tragedy that a Bosnian Muslim with sudden jihad syndrome opened fire
against helpess unarmed shoppers.
But Mr Hanson needs to remember who saved his life. A law-abiding citizen who happened to be an off-duty police officer who was carrying concealed, his PERSONALLY OWNED weapon.
But Mr Hanson needs to remember who saved his life. A law-abiding citizen who happened to be an off-duty police officer who was carrying concealed, his PERSONALLY OWNED weapon.
KH | 9:02 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
Those longing for a more "civilized", gun-free America need to realise
the inconvenient truth that posessing a gun is a right specifically outlined in
our Constitution to not be infringed upon by the government.
You may feel it would make things easier and better if we could just do away with that right, but keep in mind there are those in Government and our society that feel things would be "easier" and "better for them" if we could just do away with Free Speach, Freedom of Religion, Freedom to assemble, Freedom of transit, etc.
Those who are fighting to have this right infringed, restricted or removed need to think about what they are doing .
You may feel it would make things easier and better if we could just do away with that right, but keep in mind there are those in Government and our society that feel things would be "easier" and "better for them" if we could just do away with Free Speach, Freedom of Religion, Freedom to assemble, Freedom of transit, etc.
Those who are fighting to have this right infringed, restricted or removed need to think about what they are doing .
shotgun in Arizona | 11:54 a.m. Oct. 19, 2007
Let's see here. How many times has anyone heard of a gun carrying citizen
detering crime? Wasn't that the question? Well...how about this. I'm
a private citizen and I am usually armed. On TWO seperate occasions I was able
to deter a crime about to happen..to ME. I never had to draw my weapon in either
instance. All it took was the sight of my weapon,still in the holster, and the
assailant took off. No shots fired. No gun even drawn. I would call that
"deterance"..wouldn't you?
SD | 4:28 p.m. Oct. 19, 2007
Great another feel good event by people who want others to solve their problems,
people who think every one is as nice as they are. Moan all you want but I have
a CCW and will NEVER EVER give up my right to defend myself and my family no
matter what.
Mike Hunt | 5:14 p.m. Oct. 19, 2007
I don't like guns. They scare me almost as much as the person holding one.
MharperPG | 6:19 p.m. Oct. 19, 2007
Anon: My heart goes out to you red necks when your child ends up taking your gun
to school or blowing themselves away during a rough time in their life.
First, this is typical of a liberal socialist who has no idea about how to raise a child. I am a CCW holder and my children know what a gun is and what it is used for! I have it daily in their sight and not once have they ever asked to see it, never asked to play with it, never tried to get it without my permission, and never talked about using it in a bad way - period! It's about education. Take the mystery away and the children loose interest. Also, this individual should understand that the children should feel confident in talking with their parent to help resolve a problem - the parents are the failure here. Columbine was a testament to this very issue. Where were those parents? Not interested in their children - too busy making money and being stoned on so called happiness. Get real Anon!
First, this is typical of a liberal socialist who has no idea about how to raise a child. I am a CCW holder and my children know what a gun is and what it is used for! I have it daily in their sight and not once have they ever asked to see it, never asked to play with it, never tried to get it without my permission, and never talked about using it in a bad way - period! It's about education. Take the mystery away and the children loose interest. Also, this individual should understand that the children should feel confident in talking with their parent to help resolve a problem - the parents are the failure here. Columbine was a testament to this very issue. Where were those parents? Not interested in their children - too busy making money and being stoned on so called happiness. Get real Anon!
Wildfire | 8:58 a.m. Oct. 20, 2007
So Mr. Hanson tell us: Where has strict gun control laws lead to LOWERED violent
crime rate? Washington, DC? Chicago? Detroit? NYC?
This may be unfair to ask a castrati, but, if �It's obvious there needs to be stronger gun laws, not only in this state, but in the country� was a viable answer; why does Washington D.C., where guns have been banned from the law-abiding for the last 30 years have a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000, while across the river in Arlington, Virginia, where the law-abiding aren�t neutered and gun ownership is not deprived, yet the murder rate is a mere 1.6 per 100,000? (FBI, �Crime in the United States�, 1998)
Yes the Anti-Freedom Nazis, like Teddy Kennedy with his machinegun-totting bodyguards, tell us �Disarm! Just dial 9-1-1, the police will protect you!� If Kennedy and the others truly believed this: Why do they have armed bodyguards? What makes a Kennedy�s booze soaked body more valuable to you than your own loved ones?
Tell us Mr. Hanson, as a castrati, what new laws do you �feel�, a person willing to commit murder would have obeyed and thus prevented the crime?
This may be unfair to ask a castrati, but, if �It's obvious there needs to be stronger gun laws, not only in this state, but in the country� was a viable answer; why does Washington D.C., where guns have been banned from the law-abiding for the last 30 years have a murder rate of 56.9 per 100,000, while across the river in Arlington, Virginia, where the law-abiding aren�t neutered and gun ownership is not deprived, yet the murder rate is a mere 1.6 per 100,000? (FBI, �Crime in the United States�, 1998)
Yes the Anti-Freedom Nazis, like Teddy Kennedy with his machinegun-totting bodyguards, tell us �Disarm! Just dial 9-1-1, the police will protect you!� If Kennedy and the others truly believed this: Why do they have armed bodyguards? What makes a Kennedy�s booze soaked body more valuable to you than your own loved ones?
Tell us Mr. Hanson, as a castrati, what new laws do you �feel�, a person willing to commit murder would have obeyed and thus prevented the crime?
Wildfire | 8:59 a.m. Oct. 20, 2007
My grandmother didn�t really say that, SHE would HAVE SHOT
the son-of-a-Kennedy! NOT �shot at�
until the strangers with guns could finally get there. She was a MUCH better
shot than most cops are, and she KNEW she had only herself to DEPEND on for her
protection. Though you would not have seen it, she ALWAYS had her gun. She was
not raised with the welfare mentality:
�I�ll let someone ELSE take care of
me.�
Mr. Hanson; the carnage would have been MUCH less had you and the other willing victims not been neutered long before you entered a mall where the decent were stripped of their human and civil rights.
The carnage would have been MUCH WORSE had it not been for a shopper that did NOT disarm to enter the mall. Yes, he WAS an off-duty cop, endowed with no more �super-powers� than any of the victims themselves . . . except for his gun.
This common man, with no special skills or ability not possessed by 99% of the other adult shoppers at the mall that day, except for his GUN, kept the murderer busy until the other STRANGERS with GUNS could be called and finally arrived.
Mr. Hanson; the carnage would have been MUCH less had you and the other willing victims not been neutered long before you entered a mall where the decent were stripped of their human and civil rights.
The carnage would have been MUCH WORSE had it not been for a shopper that did NOT disarm to enter the mall. Yes, he WAS an off-duty cop, endowed with no more �super-powers� than any of the victims themselves . . . except for his gun.
This common man, with no special skills or ability not possessed by 99% of the other adult shoppers at the mall that day, except for his GUN, kept the murderer busy until the other STRANGERS with GUNS could be called and finally arrived.
Wildfire | 9:00 a.m. Oct. 20, 2007
OH YEAH! All of the above was already in effect when 18-year-old Sulejman
Talovic ignored all laws of court and decency and shot and slaughtered those
UNARMED sheep! The same people who were too cowardly to protect themselves with
guns, so they bleated for STRANGERS with GUNS to come and save them.
Maybe this was just evolution: �Thinning the herd�.
Well I guess what my grandmother said was true: �Anyone that would shoot you in a place where guns were not allowed for the law-abiding, with an illegal gun, for no reason . . . well they just ain�t your friend!�
Maybe this was just evolution: �Thinning the herd�.
Well I guess what my grandmother said was true: �Anyone that would shoot you in a place where guns were not allowed for the law-abiding, with an illegal gun, for no reason . . . well they just ain�t your friend!�
Wildfire | 9:01 a.m. Oct. 20, 2007
"It's just insane. We're becoming uncivilized," he said.
"No one can tell me we don't need to change our gun laws. ...
It's obvious there needs to be stronger gun laws, not only in this state,
but in the country. It's gotta happen today. It's gotta happen now in
a strong way.�
If ONLY there had just been some laws against such things taking place! If ONLY there were laws against premeditated murder, randomly shooting people, assault with a deadly weapon, or maybe there should have been a law against an 18-year-old running around with a .38. HECK, maybe this wouldn�t have happened if there had at least been a sign on the front door saying �NO GUNS ALLOWED!�!
If ONLY there had just been some laws against such things taking place! If ONLY there were laws against premeditated murder, randomly shooting people, assault with a deadly weapon, or maybe there should have been a law against an 18-year-old running around with a .38. HECK, maybe this wouldn�t have happened if there had at least been a sign on the front door saying �NO GUNS ALLOWED!�!
To Disheartened | 9:37 a.m. Oct. 20, 2007
Disheartened Bleats: �So...we aren't a more violent,
uncivilized society?� Where has strict gun control lead to
LOWER crime rates? Washington, DC? NYC? Chicago?
Disheartened Bleats: �If it's necessary that everyone be armed to be safe, that qualifies the fact that we are indeed a violent and yes, uncivilized society.� WRONG! You have the cowardly �Welfare Mentality�: you want OTHERS to risk their lives to take care of you. If you aren�t willing to protect yourself, why should the STRANGERS with GUNS (cops) risk their lives to protect you when YOU are unwilling to protect yourself?
Disheartened Bleats: �If it's necessary that everyone be armed to be safe, that qualifies the fact that we are indeed a violent and yes, uncivilized society.� WRONG! You have the cowardly �Welfare Mentality�: you want OTHERS to risk their lives to take care of you. If you aren�t willing to protect yourself, why should the STRANGERS with GUNS (cops) risk their lives to protect you when YOU are unwilling to protect yourself?
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Adriana Burgon, left, and Carmen Contreras plant daffodils in remembrance of gun victims.
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Consider the folowing statement by Marko Kloos: "When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act."