Deseret News | A $400 million Utah surplus?

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A $400 million Utah surplus?

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Steven Jarvis | 12:48 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I got a suggestion---pay off some of that bond debt our school districts have acquired for building all these schools. Let the schools use the money they would have spent on interest and principle to buy current history books.

Let's also look at actually releasing those 'surplus' funds that are supposed to be going to public education, and let them actually go toward funding education for a change. We need to increase the WPU, build more schools in high growth areas so our kids aren't shut up in portables.

After that let's cut the food tax at grocery stores. Paying a tax on something that is essential makes sense because it effects everyone, poor and rich included fairly evenly. But only cut after we actually fund what we need to at appropriate levels.

Curt | 1:49 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Funding for education?!?!?! Harumph! I want my $5.35 back! That is one more meal at McDonald's after all...

Sure it would speed up my heart exploding, but the state will take care of that one right?

Higher Ed | 5:11 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

How about some MAJOR investment in the key to Utah's economic future: higher education. Capital facilities are badly needed on campuses throughout the state and our neighbors in the West are investing big time in basic research as a spur to economic development. Investment on the front end with some of this surplus will pay HUGE dividends on the back end. Promise.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 5:19 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I agree with Steven. Put the money in the educational system. Increase teacher's salaries. Draw more qualified teachers to Utah.

J Q | 5:32 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Please. Help Education!

Great Idea | 5:39 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Took the words right out of my mouth!!

Let's move that money towards education! We all agree that it is important, let's give even more than we already have. A large sum was placed in front of education last year, let's do it again and then some!!!

Continue to show our dedication to our kids, help change the future, and let's continue to improve our schools!

Colin | 6:08 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I will take them in fives and twenties... if not possible. Build more schools.

Steve in Hurricane | 6:16 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Ah, the old "What are we going to do with all out extra money" dilemma. Here's a clue: IT AIN'T YOUR MONEY! Get it? It our money - the taxpayers. Don't debate what to do with it. Give it back. You took it from me. Give me my share back. I earned it; not you!

AW | 6:52 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

yeah too bad our government doesn't practice common sense. Funding our schools should be priority one. I mean if you collect that much extra maybe we are underfunding something??? hmmmm Utahs Schools need to be improved so we are not so far behind the rest of the country. And yeah I want my food to be cheaper. Lets tax cigarettes to make up for that tax. Makes sense to me.

lost in DC | 7:02 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

My son is one of over 40 students in two of his ninth grade classes. That may work in certain required courses at college, but such numbers are not conducive to learning in junior high. Pay teachers a living wage so we can attract and retain qualified educators.

I agree | 7:35 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Amen! Give me my money back. The tax burden is ridiculous and I don't trust the governemnt to spend MY money correctly!

Anonymous | 7:35 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Give it back to the peopel it is there money and money in individuals hand is better spent than money in governments hand.

Margaret | 8:26 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

How about putting it towards cutting class size once and for all. Instead of playing games with - oh let's get vouchers. NO - let's use the surplus to cut class size. I have been pushing this for 20 years and the legislators have done it only once, by 3 children per class. CUT the Class Size with the Surplus!!!!!

High hope... | 8:33 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Could we actually get to 49th out of 50 instead of 50th out of 50 in education spending?

Hopefully a light will go off in the legislature's collective heads and see that the public wants our schools to be better funded. Not vouchers, not charters, not some new program. Just good old fashioned schools with good, well paid, teachers. Well paid not paid just enough to keep them around.

We need teaching to become the profession kids aspire to. The top of every kids list of dream jobs. Well paid, treated with respect, held in high esteem in society.

It can and should be done.

Scooter | 8:34 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

The "Extra" tax money is not the states, it is the taxpayers money. It should be returned to them. I need it back to help pay for the increase in my property taxes & the school bond increase that is soon coming. ... If a bank announces it was robbed of $250,000 & the bank robber is arrested with $350,000, does the bank robber get to keep the "Extra" $100,000? ... Hmmmmm?

Reinhard | 8:44 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

There is this mentality that there should always be tax cuts. I say if utahns are stupid enough to push for tax cuts, they deserve what they get--which is the reputation of having worse schools than Mississippi. (If anyone has been to Mississippi, they should know how frightening that is.) If this education problems continue, Utahns will be known as the most stupid lot in the country. Ivy League universities will look at applications from students from Utah high schools and know their 4.0 really could never reach a 4.0 in a Massachusetts high school. Having left Utah--I'll leave it up to other Utahns to decide if they want to keep their positions as one of the most inferior states in the union.

Anonymous | 8:56 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Why doesn't Utah pay more money to teachers and teachers? Why do teachers in Utah have one of the lowest pay scales in he United States? I've heard there is a shortage of teachers in Utah. How can Utah get quality teachers if they are desperate for teachers?

As a native Utahn, I wouldn't dream of coming back to Utah to work for such low pay. I am in school in Texas to become a teacher. When I graduate, I will make over 43,000 my first year here.

How can Utah have such big surplusses and not give it to education? Where are their priorities? It is a sad state for Utah.

Ed U. Cate | 9:19 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Give the teachers a raise!!!

Not one penny for the socialized soccer stadium

Dave | 9:24 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I spent my winters in Arizona, and I have found that they spend more on education down there. The schools are better and the roads are better. So why can't we spend more for schools and roads? Utah is a wonderful place to live, but the teachers need more money, is this so hard to understand? Why don't the Politicians get it? The planning for roads in Utah is bad. We build a sub division first roads second. Why not plan better for both schools and roads.

More for failing schools... | 9:30 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

My children are home schooled because the schools are not doing their job. So we should just keep rewarding the schools for failing? In New York City they spend 64K per student and they still can't read.
If a company overcharges for a service and does not complete the work they were contracted to do should we just let them keep the money? Should we force their customers to pay more in hopes that next time they will do a better job? It is not the governments money its the peoples money. They need to refund the overcharge.

Please | 10:11 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Spend it on wildlife and habitat. Parents educate your children!

Echo | 10:21 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I echo the comments of the others here. We don't really have a surplus when we are woefully underfunding education.

another brick in the wall | 10:49 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

most of the teachers working have huge families any way so just raise their pay and consider it a form of gratituity..just a joke ...funny how a basketball player here in Utah can earn millions while the real good talent such as a teacher is not justly rewarded in the same state. Put your money into intellegence and stop bringing up the rear by being such tight wads on education!

Show Me The Money | 10:52 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I'd like to see more money escape the black gates of mismanagement and fraud, a.k.a. public school administrations, and actually make into the classroom for higher teacher salaries, books, etc.

If the teachers want a raise the first place they should look is the school districts.

Didn't the Jordan School Board just try to give themselves a raise over the summer?

How much was it that couple in Layton stole from the Davis School District? $4.3 Million

There needs to be real-time, detailed, financial disclosure via the internet for all public agencies, especially school districts. And until we get that I want my money back.

BC | 10:59 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Increasing funds for education too much and too quickly only increases the chances of careless spending. I would support an independent committee researching better ways to improve education. If money is proven to solve the problem then give them the money. I'm for increasing teachers pay along with state workers who are in the same boat. Letï¿½s continue to give businesses a reason to be here. They are the ones responsible for the surplus. The economy is doing great if not perfect. Unemployment rate is currently 2.7% and job growth rate is 4.4%. Lets have everyone employed with higher pay.

Daniel | 11:32 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

It's ridiculous that our elementary schools have 30+ kids per class and junior high has 40+ kids. The state legislature doesn't like giving money to schools without extracting something in return, so how about this:

1) Have the state take over building schools. This solves the problem where a school district splits and one half has to take responsibility for building new schools, as is happening in Salt Lake.

2) Use part of the surplus to build enough schools so our kids have class sizes in the low 20s.

3) Mandate a maximum size for school districts, so they remain small and responsive to parents.

4) Use the remainder of the surplus to provide for hiring new teachers to fill our new schools.

Duane Blackburn | 11:33 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

In years past I have been pretty sympathetic to giving excess funds to education, arts, etc.. But with the recent increase in property tax assessments no more!!! I'm single, never been married, don't have any kids and I'm tired of seeing tax breaks to families while mine continually increase with no break at all! I want my money back!

Anonymous | 11:34 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Education what a joke give the money back to those who paid it. Teacher have large families and just keep adding to the problem Twenty years ago we had the same problem why is it that every few years teachers feel like they need more money. Produce kids that can read and write and then we will talk about a increase in pay.

Teacher | 11:34 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I'm a middle school teacher and the sole provider for my family. Through careful budgeting and working 2 jobs, I was able to buy a small house to use as a rental a few years ago. With this recent house pricing boom, I sold my house, paid off all but 60k on the small house and moved my family into it. I no longer get rent and currently don't have a 2nd job, and with an interest only loan on my 60k house, my budget is still $200 in the hole each month. We never go out to eat, sometimes go to the dollar theater for a night out. I've been teaching for 9 years, have a master's degree, and can't provide for my family. Please spend the excess on teachers' salaries.

Three Words! | 11:35 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

EDUCATION,TEACHERS,SCHOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

R | 11:37 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

What about health care. I know of families that cannot afford health care for the adults. I know a single Mom who is sick and cannot go to a specialist to find out what is wrong. It is affecting the whole family. She luckily does have coverage for her children.

Quinn | 12:20 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

The legislature should see most of the posts here agree- put the money towards our future- invest in Utah's future- Education, Education, Education to borrow a phrase from real estate. Spend the money on the kids, NOT administration! Let's get and KEEP great teachers!
We could also save Utah some money by
finding a way to fire, let-go, lay-off INEFFECTIVE teachers!
Thanks

Guns or butter! | 12:25 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

you better butter the bread(teachers)that feed you(your childrens' education) while you can or face losing them to other surrounding states that will!

KH | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I see so many people saying... "Use the money to attract more qualified teachers". What do you propose we do with the ones we already have?

Why do we have to spend it. If I had to go on a spending spree and blow it every time I got a surplus... I would never be prepared for the rainy days. Put it away for a rainy day. I guarantee there will come a day when the economy and the State budget are not so rosy and because we had to spend the surplus when we had it, we will have no recourse but raise taxes (and raising taxes is a one-way road. You will never see taxes go down, surplus or no surplus).

If it's burning a whole in your pocket and we have to spend it, at least do something responsible, like paying off some of the state's debt, not blow it on pet-projects.

Numbers | 12:31 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

FY06 had a revenue surplus of $390m, the budget surplus was $308m. FY07 the revenue surplus is $257m the budget surplus is $242m. The potential growth in revenue of $200m to $400m should not be comparted to the $308m number, it is not a surplus! Last year the extra growth was $462m. Reporters, please try to get the numbers right...

Buck Beaver | 12:32 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Everywhere I have gone it is the same story, give to education, from one end of the country to the other. Everytime the state has a surplus it can be guaranteed the education monster rises from its hole to demand more. What about our aging population living on fixed incomes, why not eliminate the sales tax on all foods or lower the gas tax and help every one.

Da Critic | 12:43 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

How about this:

$400M over about 1M taxpayers is ~$400 for each of us taxpayers.

Offer everyone the choice of either a $400 voucher redeemable only for private education or having the money go directly to the public school systems on a per-captia basis to dole out the rest.

Betcha that $395M would go to public schools. There are few private schools and even fewer people that can afford several thousand dollars per kid annual for private schools.

Hmmmm.

Trout-P | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Why are we having surpluses every year?

Can you say, stop taxing so much in the first place!

Utah is one of the few States that have a higher tax rate than the Feds.

Stop taxing the citizens of Utah so much during the year, cause it is obvious that State Government doesn't know who to use surplus money right. There will be everyone lined up again to get their share, and then watch, they give out token shares to everyone just to make everyone a little bit happy. Use the surplus to fix the Utah tax code, and to make it so businesses and corporations will locate here instead of Idaho Falls, Boise, Pokey, etc. etc. Idaho. Wake up Huntsman, more specifically wake up Mormon legislatures. It is okay for the poor and the middle class to reap some financial gain. You can't always use this as a way to control the little people. Now, all you beautiful people legislators, do something good for a change, instead of dividing the State down the lines of the Voucher or No
voucher. Unite us for a change! Don't be a divider like Mr. Bush!

Steven Jarvis | 12:55 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Da Critic,

Excellent suggestion.

Tax poor | 1:00 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Heres an idea.. lets not give the money to the underpaid, alpo eating teachers and put it back in the hands of those who earned it. Teachers work 9 months out of the year and many of them make good money for 9 months of work. Try taking your salary and multiplying it by 9/12 and see what you'd be making if you only worked 9 months of the year. I personally know several teachers that make in the $50,000 per year range for a 9 month contract.. If they worked all year long it would be the equivilent of $67,000 per year.... Stop the whining and just deal with it.

Spending property tax money | 1:23 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Mr. Jarvis,

Unfortunately, state law prohibits spending property tax revenues on text books. Property tax money has to be spent on building and maintaining schools.

@Trout-P | 1:26 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I assume you're talking about income tax rates when comparing state to federal rate.

Just so you know, the top rate for Utah income tax is about 7%. The lowest federal rate is 10%.

How does Utah have a higher tax rate than the feds?

Scartissue | 1:28 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

To: Ed U. Cate
You stated "Give the teachers a raise!!! Not one penny for the socialized soccer stadium."

Are you complaining about socialism?... because education is the biggest socialist system we have in the U.S.

Or are you complaining about teacher's salaries. Personally, I can complain about my salary as well. I am tired of teachers acting like they have the monopoly on complaining about pay and being overworked. It seems that all the teachers union does is complain about teacher's salaries...but maybe they just complain the loudest.

Part of that surplus is mine...and I want it back.

Help Da Critic | 2:08 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Give it back to the taxpayers before the Legislators take it!

Utah Legislators might come up with a way to take it from us to pay for self-serving projects like a nuclear power plant in Kane County.

Utah Citizen | 2:13 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I'm wondering how many of todays write-ins are school teachers? Seems to me that the smell of money always brings out government workers, especially teachers. I wish I could sign a work contract for 186 days a year.

Anonymous | 2:19 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Put some of the money into serious development of Utah's online highschool, both higher, secondary, and elementary.

Teacher | 2:41 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Dear Utah Citizen:

Yes, I am a teacher who works 186 days a year, but I also spend hours chaperoning your children, taking tickets at events,and doing extra duty with no additional pay. I teacher because I love working with students, but more and more I don't get to teach, I'm too busy getting ready for mandatory tests for my students. It's also becoming less and less exciting to come to school because I have to deal with students who don't want to be here and I get no support from parents. You know it's always the teachers fault. Yes, I deal with it because I need the job. Put the money in education by all means--higher ed needs it, lower ed needs it,technology in schools needs it.

frustrated | 2:41 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

We hate surplus money. Legislature is not as accountable to money that hasn't been budgeted and we aren't as informed as to where the money went. Did anyone hear where the last surplus money went.

We can't believe that property taxes increased so much this year and now we're told that Utah has a $400M surplus. $400M is a big chunk of money without any earmarks.

Seems to us we've tried to give teachers more money, but they continue to complain. Teachers, please make some good teaching plans and really teach. Many are doing a good job, but it's probably the teachers that aren't doing as well that do the most complaining.

As far as reducing class size: Over the past few years much money has been given to the schools to reduce class size. Instead, somehow instead of funding what they are suppose to fund it ends up with more office help or aids that do the copying for teachers. Not always a good thing as more work sheets don't make good teaching.

California has the right idea for property tax. When houses sell, at that point in time collect the property tax!

Utah Citizen | 2:58 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

To Teacher,
Sounds to me like you had better quit your job and find new employment where you are not being abused. You have that right as an American.
It occurs to me that 186 days a year is actually approximatly 6 months, not nine months like most people think. Six months working time spread over a nine month time span is part time work.

jackhp | 3:52 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Utah Citizen,
You imply that teachers only work 6 months of the year. That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I work 12 months out the year, but I sure as heck don't work every single day . . . do you?

Your disdain for teachers is disgusting.

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