Deseret News | Bluffdale charter school is jeered

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Bluffdale charter school is jeered

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Dave Compton | 3:05 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

All elementary schools create traffic. My elementary school was in the middle of a neighborhood as most are. I seems to me that these people are crying for the the safety of the children when what they really have is their own interests in mind. Some these picketers signs focused on putting their children in danger and that the school shouldn't be built because of the danger, yet I happen to know that several of the neighbors said that if their kids were GIVEN admission to the school rather than have to submit to the lottery enrollment system these schools employ, that they would back off. What?...Did the school all the sudden become a safe option when it benefited you? 4000 West is a road full of speed bumps and stop signs and traffic is moving at a wopping 25 mph pace. And the fact that it IS a dead end means there won't be anyone ripping by to get somewhere. There couldn't be a safer place for these kid's school.

False Lottery | 3:04 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

How many of the Founding "Volunteers" are garunteed a spot in the school.

BE HONEST.

David Compton | 3:05 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Not to mention that there will be a pretty descent sized parking lot which I believe includes a route circling traffic out of the school area and back out of the neighbor hood. Don't be mistaken, these picketers have their own interests in mind while the try to come accoss as saints. I know of one who attended a PUBLIC forum and while shaking in a fit of rage verbally abused the founding board of the school. GO PROVIDENCE HALL!

Comments continue below

To typical | 3:07 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

If "The SOURCE" would have told us what was going on we wouldn't have to guess. I agree that there are a lot of unanswered questions and speculation. It would be nice to know for sure. When you feel like you have purposely been left out to avoid conflict it just increases the level of intensity. We really are rational people. They should have given us a chance before they made everyone so upset.

Jeff | 3:10 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

What does it teach your kids when you have them outside screaming during a dedicatory prayer? Sounds like you have some reasons to be upset, but is pretty darn pathetic. Then you go home and teach them to be kind to others.

Topic at Hand | 3:12 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

The Topic at hand is the Location of the school.

It IS BAD.

The coruption is not directed at the school or the operation thereof.... but to the developer.

They profit millions, and they do it with an open check, with NO OVERSIGHT.

The school ideals look great and we support the idea of choice.

BUT NOT THE LOCATION.

Go to the website you will see plenty of OPEN land at the Begining of the Developmemnt, and all around.
It is also in RIVERTON where you have been holding you recruitment meetings.

Letter of Intent | 3:15 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

According to the "SELLER"

The property has not actually been sold or is it under contract.

Merely a letter of intent.

1.4 Million Dollars

BE HONEST

Anonymous | 3:17 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

If you are hoping to hold on to your "outskirts of town feel" you may want to look around you. The city has caught up to you and has swallowed Herriman, Draper and Riverton up. May want to move to Erda. It's not quite to Tooele. I see signs out there all the time that have 5 acre lots for sale. It is only about 20 min from downtown. That's better off than you are now.

Sports Complex | 3:18 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

There is also a new sports complex going up in our neighborhood on a street that supports the traffic.
Open land right there next door to the sports complex on 138th. Better access for patrons from multiple roads.

C. Sense | 3:21 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

My favorite argument- living next to this school will hurt my property values. Yeah, living next to a school hurts property values. That appears to be the generic go-to move for people who don't want something of value to society as a whole built in their neighborhood. I am sorry, but that argument does not pass the common sense test.

And shame on the people protesting the school for using their children as pawns in their silly, immature little turf battle.

upset at charter school | 3:29 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

ARE YOU KIDDING.

The owner of the school was out there yelling at our kids for standing up for THIER NEIGHBORHOOD AND WAY OF LIFE.
SHE AND HER DEVELOPER TAKE THIS ATTITUDE.."
"WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?"
I understand the reasoning behind the legislature.
However, there must be some order. There must be some local input.
Here we have had NONE.
NO ZONING
NO IMPUT
Evidently they are not even required to consult with the City.

Emergency Services | 3:32 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

BAD LOCATION

ONE WAY IN! One way out!!

Self Righteous C. Sense | 3:48 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

I see so much information with little regard to facts. There are two speed bumps in front of the middle school.

Our Kids Live here, ride horses in our neighborhoods, and why do we have to be like every where else... just because you decided to live in the middle of it you don't have a right to force the rest of us to conform our "country" lifestyle to meet your needs. This is what they do in Communist Countries. We can make concessions.
The way this has gone down is wrong, and our kids are as passionate about it as we are.. They live here too.

Build it in your neighborhood!!

Wolves in sheeps clothing | 4:00 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Hey, lets ask the developer if he'll get this one colmpleted on time?

red herrings | 4:08 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Every excuse and reason I have seen to protest the school is a complete red herring and translates to only one thing: NOT IN MY BACK YARD! If you can't be honest with all of us, at least be honest with yourselves.

I bet the community you live in was built in someone's back yard...you weren't wanted there either.

wolves in sheeps clothing | 4:07 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Lets ask the developer if this one will be finished on time?

To Jeff | 4:16 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Hey Jeff, How come the schools not going in in your neighborhood? You'll see, whether it's now or later, you'll see the truth, and I feel bad for you.

tax payer dollars | 4:15 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

If I am paying the bills to build and run this school, should I not have some say, if not at least city representation on some level??

Back Yard | 4:28 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

We already said we don't mind the back yard.

JUST NOT THE LIVING ROOM!!! Breaking in the back door to get there!

Or maybe you need to go back to school and learn how to read.

Build it in your Neighborhood!!

How stupid is this, that anyone who wants to build a Charter school can do so where or how they want.
With ZERO LOCAL INPUT.
HAVE THE COMUNISTS ALREADY TAKEN OVER?

Your neighborhood is next.

There has been no impact or plannning...
The location is bad FOR ALL involved in this school.
You are not being honest if you think otherwise.

The deeper question is where do we draw the line.
Is there NO oversight at all for location?
Emergency Services, Safety of all participants,
A little C. Sense would move it north a few blocks or around the corner.

There has to be something unconstitutional about the way this has gone down.

Concerned | 5:17 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

I just drove to the location. There is only one house in the area that really faces the school. Directly across from the school is what looks like an empty lot with trees. There are houses that back up to the property, but a fence would resolve that. I don't see that it is in anyone's living room - and very few houses will even see the school FROM their living room.

Founding Members | 5:21 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

I asked. 10% of the school goes to founding members and children of teachers. I have observed first hand how much work is going into this school. The "volunteers" as someone put it, are treating this as a full time job. They spend countless hours daily on it. If you feel you must criticize, please try to avoid criticizing those who are working so hard to make this school happen.

Outside Observer | 5:27 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Just read every post. I can feel the hate, selfishness, ignorance, and arrogance through my computer. One common sense question as an outside observer with nothing at stake here . . . if PH is so confident in their philosophy and location, why not involve your whole community instead of a small group of "The Village" people? A member of the Bluffdale Council didn't know about this? Wow. I don't know who looks worse, the council member or the PH people. Good luck Bluffdale, this is going to be messy and both sides look silly right now.

A caring parent | 5:33 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

I live by two charter schools, one by Airport Road and one on 6200 South with access to our neighborhood. I think there are 1,000+ students between the two. One starts at 8:00 and one at 8:30 so the traffic doesn't seem to impact each other. Parents drive into our dead-end neighborhood to drop off their kids while some use the dead-end road to the school and we're all fine and have survived.

We still have a bunch of neighbor parents driving their kids to the public school while the charters seem to have some sort of carpool system...And my taxes still went up...

Media | 5:35 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Last night on the news one of the representatives said that they did talk to the city. And then the city councilwoman said that they didn't. So which is it?

Maybe? | 5:37 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Maybe they could just annex themselves into Herriman.
Sorry, did I say that out loud?

Do we realize what we're saying? | 5:47 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Charter schools are publicly funded and can't "go out of business". They do NOT collect tuition so vouchers don't apply. I believe the one case of charter mismanagement reported in the media was taken over by another charter school via action by the state board.

Also, many posters do not seem to understand charter school operations as most of the postings contain misinformation such as going out of business, "special" enrollments away from the host neighborhood, etc. I live by a charter school and while there was congestion during the first couple of weeks, it tapered off as the carpool system took hold and it has worked wonderfully since.

Charter School = a publicly-funded school district of one school.

traffic | 5:49 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

I just have a few things to say, how is it that you picked a large road to live on (and yes i have seen it) and think that it will not have a lot of traffic one day, Anytime i have moved the first thing i do is look to see the size of the road, that way i know what streets to avoid building my home on. My other thing is after reading these comments i find it interesting that the people of this neighborhood were fine with the school when they thought they would be able to bypass the lottery and get in the school. So i take it they must have told you no! and so that must explain the sad seen you people created. I guess you people just are not familiar with being told NO!!! I guess money can't buy you everything after all.

l | 6:16 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

To 'bone head' who posted at 1:11, you don't need all the extra exclamation marks to make your point, since your all caps means you're yelling anyway. Turn off your caps lock and speak normally.

Now, to those of you calling it imminent domain. It's not, it's eminent domain. Imminent means something that is about to happen. Eminent describes something that is higher or more important or more distinguished than something else. So eminent domain means that the government can purchase property for a higher or more important purpose than it is currently being used for.

Now that it's been defined, you may see that it's not even eminent domain that is being used in this situation. With eminent domain, the government forces an owner to sell their property. In this case, no property was forced to be sold; the issue is that the school is being built even though the area was not zoned for that use. Is it bad? Maybe. Is it eminent domain? Definitely not.

Regardless of whether the location is good or bad, which I have no idea, try to make some semblance of intelligence in your arguments or be ignored as a raving lunatic.

Steven Jarvis | 7:30 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Do we realize...,

I taught at Liberty. The school developed a plan to move the management under a second Charter school, then submitted the plan to the State Board. This plan did not need approval to go forward, but the State will continue to monitor its progress.

With PA I don't have a problem with the school located in a neighborhood or with a dead end. Those seem to be the best and most safe locations for schools. However the 13400 S corridor is already stressed and overloaded with SHMS and the huge amount of traffic going to and from the city of Herriman. An increase of 200-300 cars using this corridor for an hour a day will have a significant impact. If this occurs within the same hour of SHMS's beginning or end of the day the traffic will stop because of cars turning into the schools (or roads of the schools).

Expanding 13400 S. is long overdue.

survivor story | 7:42 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Having been on the receiving end of having a charter school come to town, I can relate to many of the feelings posted here tonight. However, now that the event has come and gone, I really regret our community's handling of it. In the end, the school was built, we all lived through it without serious injury, and the sky didn't fall, but the effects of the fighting and accusations will be felt for years to come as we try to repair friendships and relationships. It wasn't hard to get caught up in the fervor, but it's really hard living with the consequences.

You have an opportunity to learn from experience and avert this same result. The school will be built and you will all live through it. Decide now how you want to live after it.

susie | 7:58 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

dear "media"
The city officials the charter school was talking about is the planning and zoning dept. of bluffdale who were only told of a "potential" site with no definite plan 2 months ago, and have only just in the last WEEK been talking to anyone in the city. Since they don't HAVE to work with the city on any codes or inspections, this whole thing was "snuck" in. So they can say they've been talking to city officials but if you ask them for how long, they'll tell you "a week".

Susie | 8:08 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

At the meeting last Wednesday the representative stated that they had worked with a man on the planning board for the city. The residents there seemed unhappy with who they had talked to and made a comment about him being an idiot or something similar. I don't remember the exact words. I am somewhat familiar with the process of purchasing land and I know that it is a complicated procedure with a variety of tests involved. It is also generally a short process, with about a 30 day turn around. So, it doesn't surprise me that they only talked to them recently. What surprises me is that your neighborhood is so on the attack. Why not try to work with the people involved in starting the school in a rational way instead of running your children through the streets with signs?

To Survivor Story | 8:09 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Well said.

David Johnson | 8:16 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Whatever happened to choice, and property rights? What difference does it make where one attends school? Socialism is a one school society. City council members don't make good city planners. What we have is tin horn gods dictating to property right owners. We have very few rights left. It is surprising that we don't have to get permit to add comments to blogs. Very disappointed in the unfriendly behavoir of "good" citizens.

Deseret Dawg | 9:23 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

One lesson learned from this sequence is that people might want to consider paying closer attention to what their municipal and county governments are doing. These type of developments generally require public hearings where citizens can express their objections for the record.

Being that during the recent primary election, Bluffdale had a 3% voter turnout, more attentiveness might be in order to prevent a recurrence of this controversy. Municipal government is like a toddler; it must be watched constantly.

DEAF AND DUMB | 10:13 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

CAN YOU HEAR ME or WHAT?

THERE WERE NO HEARINGS.

A SECRET MEETING WITH OUR MAYOR< THAT SHE DENIES.

BUT EMAILS AND PROVE OTHERWISE.

THE DEVELOPER ASKED A FEW QUESTIONS, BUT NEVER CONFIRMED HIS INTENTIONS QWITH THE CITY OF BLUFFDALE.

HE IS A PRO AT THIS. THIS IS NOT HIS FIRST CHARTER SCHOOL. HE MAKES ALOT OF MONEY. RECKLESS, SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, IN THE NAME OF CHILDERN AND FAMLIES, IREGARDLESS OF THE IMPACT IT HAS ON THE REST OF US.

DON'T BE FOOLED. HE MAKES ALOT OF MONEY AT THIS.

Stuart | 10:42 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

The fact remains the same.

The People who live here day and night, do not want the school to be located at the intended site. period. For a multitude of reasons that could be argued back and forth with speculation and finger pointing. Up until now Most of us have supported and have or are patrons of the charter schools.

How does a special interest group overide the rights and protections of property owners, and the expectation that established zoning plans, at least be subject to some sort of review.

Where does it stop. What group is next. To give any group such power to bypass any local review is wrong. I feel that my rights have not been protected. As these schools become more popular, when and where will we draw a line as to the power they have been so recklessly been given to build whereever they feel like. Here we hava situation where a "for profit" Developer comes into the comunity and picks what and where he is going to build with total disregard for the rest of the local comunity

The location does not make any sense to the residents that live here.

Desparate for options | 10:44 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

...Yes, we DO have the legislature and the local real etsate developers to blame for this. What a shame that a charter school doesn't have to disclose info like any other public entity. However, where do you expect all of Utah's children to go? Quit having so many children if you don't want to support growth, more development and yes, more traffic! Did you want them to be squished 60-70 in a classroom at the local school?!?

Anonymous | 11:03 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

Who is the school developer?

Without Caps please. Caps make it hard to read on the eyes.

Stuart | 11:06 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007

The school could be located in our comunity, it just makes better sense for the entire comunity for it to not be built in that spot.

There is plenty of space behind Mark Anthony's, across from the Middle School, or just around the corner on 138th across from the planned Riverton Sports Park.

Again I plead, how in the world did we get to a point in this country, in this state, where a special interest group can so grossly, and intentionally disregard the rights of the local community? Albeit in the sacred name of children and education.

For us this is not about the money, granted there are significant investments here. They are investments in our community by us for our children and our families. A unique community, that we feel is being threatened. Our faith in the process, and the parties involved in this project is forever damaged due to the sneaky, intentionally underhanded, corupt approach that has been used thus far.
Where do we draw the line?
Where is the order.
There is no justification for this law in its present state, its too open for abuse... case-in-point.

Suggestion | 7:48 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

I have read many headlines about problems in Bluffdale that make me think: Why don't all the wackos on Bluffdale move out to Eagle Mountain - perfect fit!

Land Issues | 8:21 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Charter schools cannot afford commercial land, therefore they have to purchase land that is zoned residential. The land near Mark Anthony's is zoned commercially, which increases the price substantially. A friend of mine is on the board for Providence Hall and when I asked her about it, she explained to me that the board had searched for land that would be big enough, and financially feasible for the school. That eliminates any commercial real estate.

Dale | 11:07 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

The laws passed by the Utah Legislature prevent the City from prohibiting a location of a private school.

Had Bluffdale accepted the Sorenson Developers settlement proposal, there would have been 3 rows of one acre lots south and west of the canal. It also guaranteed that 4000 West would not connect to additional development. When Bluffdale United torpedoed the settlement and Bluffdale lost the disconnection lawsuit,the chances of 4000 West becoming a collector street became virtually assured. Traffic is going to be terrible along both 4000 West and 13800 south.

dale | 11:20 a.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Should have said "charter school" instead of "private school"

Lies | 3:30 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

There is undeveloped residential land across from the Middle School which could give multiple access routes into the school. 1.4Million for the residential land.

Wait a second | 6:01 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

Stuart, have you seen 13800 South near the new park? Basically a one lane street with no lights, no sidewalk and limited access. And hey, now that the new drug and alcohol rehab. is opening on 13800 South, what a great combination. Bluffdale City asleep at the switch again.

To Lies | 6:02 p.m. Oct. 17, 2007

How many acres? Is it for sale?

Wake up | 8:58 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007

I have lived in two different cities where the same arguments have been used. I owned a home in a quiet neighborhood where we all feared the worst. I sold my home after the school was built, for $150,000 more than its appraised value before I "lost" my "dead end" street. The homes being built right next to the charter school are now selling for 4 times what I sold mine for 3 years ago. The feared traffic nightmare happened in the afternoon, when LOCAL residents would get in a hurry to pass a school at unsafe speeds. Only one family in the neighborhood went to the school. Many families attending the school were large. Mini-Vans and Suburbans lined the street at pick up time. No children have been hit or hurt by the charter school parents vehicles. The fighting against the schools in both cities will always stay with the people...and their children. The nightmare ends... when you wake up and see reality. Oh and if locals had a choice, think about it, schools would never be allowed in any neighborhood.

you are right | 10:15 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007

The Drug Rehab House that is across the street from the other Charter School would have been THE perfect alterneative for this School, and cheaper.

From what I understand there was an opportunity for the city to aquire it, a great location that the school could have an extremely positive impact on the community, while contributing their voice to the continued development of that part of the community.

138 is under development...perfect timing duh!?!

You are right Bluffdale City MAYOR, too busy licking her wounds to do anything much less the right thing. Absolutlely no Leadership.

That we can agree on.

Again for me the deeper argument is there is still no local review, if the developer wanted to come in here and build one, two, or four Charter Schools, he could. BUY LAND>>>BUILD PERIOD.

They are not subject to ANY public review.
No zoning hearings, no building permits from the city... If they have land they can build irregardless of the impact on the community.
Or the protection of infringement on established building and planning standards, or zoning regulations.
The develper knew, he has a reputation for being less than honest or fair in his business dealings.

your sleep walking pal | 10:26 a.m. Oct. 18, 2007

This is no a typical public school where there is public review and discusion for quite some time before a school is built.
He got a letter of intent to buy the land and had a ground breaking, we found out 5 DAYS before the ground breaking.
They have been having meetings all over the valley for two years. He decided he " liked the view" so he is going to build.

A Mayor from a different town is brought in for the ground breaking.

Total Disregard from the local Community.

Sneaky, dishonest and unneighborly.

How are we supposed to trust them now.

And who gave them so much power?...A special intrest group.

Who is next. What group will be granted these rights next?

Where is the order.

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