Comments about ‘Bluffdale charter school is jeered’

So not only do charter schools have "imminent domain" to build in people's backyards. But they appear to have a "Don't tell" policy with the neighbors until the ground breaking ceremony? When asked about it, the attorney for the school then flippintly says to one neighbor, "So what are you going to do about it?" Whatever happened to common sense, and people coming together. The charter school must have a lot on their plate to have "scheduling conflicts" for two years these plans were in the works and never notify the neighbors. Nor can they site growth as a factor. They admitted they liked the established neighborhood. But residents aren't even going to this school. This is unbelieable. Fight back neighboorhood!

This is a law gone bad. Not only do charter schools have in effect "imminent domain" to in a neighborhood, but can conveniently notify the neighbors and city officials about the idea on the day of the ground breaking. What about the cities rights to zone properly? And neighbor's property rights, traffic and safety issues?

I like charter schools, but not this way. This isn't about being in favor or opposed to vouchers. Or whether you think schools should be built or not. Because other surrounding property is available, but founders "like this neighborhood". It is about how one school lied about having "scheduling conflicts" for two years to not have the decency to inform the neighborhood, and then hire a lawyer to defend the actions by saying, "So what are you going to do about it?"

Another case of NIMBY. With a failed public schools system that benefgits employees of the system more than stundents future needs, you would think that the residents would now enroll their kids where they could an education.

NIMBY again

The only reason this story got any press is so that the media could try to portray charter schools as "bad" in the run-up to the vote on vouchers. How many other similar things happen in a day that could be reported on. This is just simple propaganda disguised as news.

Charter schools have nothing to do with vouchers. A charter school is a public school with a specific educational mandate. Do not confuse the two issues here. There is no more impact than if Jordan District had decided to put an elementary school in the same location.

Thank our legislature for this. I am a planning commissioner in a Utah County city and we have a new charter school coming in this year. Our city has virtually no say in the location and other matters over which we usually have jurisdiction. Watch for the day when "private schools" are considered eligible for the same rights. Eminent domain (that is the actual term) has now become a force for the imposition of the will of a state body (the legislature) over the cities and it has extended to entities such as charter schools whose financial backing and support is often tied to our state lawmakers. This illustrates why many Utahns are skeptical of vouchers and skeptical of the legislature.

As an outside observer, I have followed the recent Bluffdale/Herriman battle over land. If I'm not mistaken, this charter school borders that piece of land that was annexed into Herriman from Bluffdale. If this is true, I wonder if the big $$ of the developer(s), Sorenson??, have been involved behind the scenes to get this property for the charter school to facilitate opening 40th West to their new developing neighborhoods to be built in Herriman. Another possible case of big $$ pushing their way into people's lives. I hate that.

Traditional public schools have the power of eminent domain to place a school where ever they want, so long as they pay fair market value for the land. Why? Because cities would frequently block them otherwise -- schools do generate traffic, and they do not pay property taxes.

Charter schools are also public schools, and thus have an equal right to locate where they want. But they do not have the power of eminent domain, they have to negotiate with the landowner, and pay what ever price the landowner wants.

Furthermore, as a member of the State Charter School Board, I personally reviewed Providence Hall's application, and believe it has all the ingredients to be a SUPERB school. Providence Hall will be much less crowded than the neighboring public schools, and will be free. Fortunately, they still have a few spots left for enrollment -- I would encourage the parents around the school to take a tour as soon as possible, and decide if their child would be happier at Providence Hall. It is typically impossible to get your child into most charter schools after their first year because their enrollment is capped, and they cannot accept additional students.

Another reporter who couldn't be bothered to confirm facts. HB172 dealt with virtual charter schools and wasn't even passed.

And it is worth making two more points:

1. Notification of Bluffdale

The school's developer did notify Bluffdale, and has all required permits.

2. Traffic

The school only has 700 students, and most of the students will arrive in carpools. Furthermore, the drivers will all be the parents of school age children, and thus likely more sensitive to the safety of children. The impact of the traffic is unlikely to be nearly as bad as some of the neighbors seem to think. Furthermore, the school will not be open on weekends, or during the Summer.

a charter school is free but open for anyone in SL valley to enroll and a lottery that does not guarantee a spot even if you have enrolled. With thousands of enrollments, how fair is it to those residents to have a school so close but no guarantee (probably less than 20% chance) that they will even go there? a regular public school would have been a better choice.

I have read the guidelines for public schools, charter or otherwise. This school apparently doesn't have a copy of these, or they chose not to follow them.

What a crock!!! Most of you posting here don't even know what you are talking about. Why is it the Charter School's fault that the city did not communicate with themselves? If the city council wasn't aware of this school proposed placement it's the city's fault.
Recognize that public schools because they are children of the state are not required to get local jurisictional approvals either.
Schools typically have little or no activity in the evenings and weekends, are well maintained, no loud teenage parties at night, and great additional parking when my family comes over on the weekends. Wish I could get one next to me.

this may be a "superb" school, but that is not the issue here. this is a two-lane road, turning into a one-lane dead end street. 700 cars twice a day on that road will be a nightmare especially if there are middle schoolers walking to the middle school. Have you seen the traffic congestion on Bangerter and 13400 S. the time of day this will be taking place? Add 700 more cars to that.

Joel,
Not sure you would know this, but who is paying for the building and the land? Is there a way to find out? Does it all come from the State Legislature or is some private entity putting up the money? I think North Star Academy cost around $5 million and I believe it is leased. Just curious how this works and who is financially backing this new charter school.

Having worked in two Charter schools so far, traffic can be a problem during afternoon pick-ups, and will be worse the first two weeks and during inclement weather. Mornings aren't so bad because everyone gets there at different times and rarely have to wait to unload their kids. The size of parking lots and carpool plan have a huge impact in allowing this to happen.

The afternoon pick-up won't effect South Hills Middle school. The kids will be home before the build-up of traffic because SHMS likely gets out forty or so minutes before Providence will. If this is an actual concern I am sure Providence can adjust the start and end times of the day to allow this to happen better. Carpool build up starts about 15 minutes before school ends, and goes no more than 30 minutes after school.

As for house values, they certainly won't be going down because of a school being built nearby. The city or State may even widen the road which really seems to be needed already.

free but restrictive,

I would like to see that rule changed as well. Give families within a two mile radius of the school double the chances in the lottery to be admitted, but that sort of change must be done at the State level.

First, Charter schools don't "take" property, the property is purchased/leased by the school from a willing seller/lessor. Charter schools cannot "condemn" or cause "imminent domain" on property. They do not have that legal power. Cities and school districts can "condemn" or cause "imminent domain."

Second, Bluffdale City had to know if zoning needed to be changed as well as any permit the school or landowner needed. I can't see how this could be a "surprise" to anyone at the city. Any public school, district or charter, can build where it acquires property.

Third, our operating K-9 charter school has 550 students and only 200 vehicles in and 200 out per day due to a very successful carpool program organized by parents.

Fourth, a lottery is used for placement because more people enroll in all schools than there is space. Successful schools have more requests for enrollment. Just like open enrollment in a district school, enrollment is limited when space/school capacity is reached when outside a boundary. Charter schools have no boundaries so they fill up by lottery.

Best to all and best wishes to Providence Hall!

I am tired of people saying there will be 700 cars a day. If the school has 700 students, many of those families will be sending 2-3 children there and many others will be carpooling. The number will probably be more like 300 or less.