Reader comments
Bluffdale charter school is jeered
111 comments | Read story
Not this way | 7:36 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
So not only do charter schools have "imminent domain" to build in
people's backyards. But they appear to have a "Don't tell"
policy with the neighbors until the ground breaking ceremony? When asked about
it, the attorney for the school then flippintly says to one neighbor, "So
what are you going to do about it?" Whatever happened to common sense, and
people coming together. The charter school must have a lot on their plate to
have "scheduling conflicts" for two years these plans were in the
works and never notify the neighbors. Nor can they site growth as a factor. They
admitted they liked the established neighborhood. But residents aren't even
going to this school. This is unbelieable. Fight back neighboorhood!
For Schools - But not this way | 8:00 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
This is a law gone bad. Not only do charter schools have in effect
"imminent domain" to in a neighborhood, but can conveniently notify
the neighbors and city officials about the idea on the day of the ground
breaking. What about the cities rights to zone properly? And neighbor's
property rights, traffic and safety issues?
I like charter schools, but not this way. This isn't about being in favor or opposed to vouchers. Or whether you think schools should be built or not. Because other surrounding property is available, but founders "like this neighborhood". It is about how one school lied about having "scheduling conflicts" for two years to not have the decency to inform the neighborhood, and then hire a lawyer to defend the actions by saying, "So what are you going to do about it?"
I like charter schools, but not this way. This isn't about being in favor or opposed to vouchers. Or whether you think schools should be built or not. Because other surrounding property is available, but founders "like this neighborhood". It is about how one school lied about having "scheduling conflicts" for two years to not have the decency to inform the neighborhood, and then hire a lawyer to defend the actions by saying, "So what are you going to do about it?"
Anonymous | 8:23 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Another case of NIMBY. With a failed public schools system that benefgits
employees of the system more than stundents future needs, you would think that
the residents would now enroll their kids where they could an education.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 8:24 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
NIMBY again
Guaglione | 9:08 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
The only reason this story got any press is so that the media could try to
portray charter schools as "bad" in the run-up to the vote on
vouchers. How many other similar things happen in a day that could be reported
on. This is just simple propaganda disguised as news.
Z | 9:09 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Charter schools have nothing to do with vouchers. A charter school is a public
school with a specific educational mandate. Do not confuse the two issues here.
There is no more impact than if Jordan District had decided to put an elementary
school in the same location.
alvin | 9:11 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Thank our legislature for this. I am a planning commissioner in a Utah County
city and we have a new charter school coming in this year. Our city has
virtually no say in the location and other matters over which we usually have
jurisdiction. Watch for the day when "private schools" are considered
eligible for the same rights. Eminent domain (that is the actual term) has now
become a force for the imposition of the will of a state body (the legislature)
over the cities and it has extended to entities such as charter schools whose
financial backing and support is often tied to our state lawmakers. This
illustrates why many Utahns are skeptical of vouchers and skeptical of the
legislature.
smells bad | 9:20 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
As an outside observer, I have followed the recent Bluffdale/Herriman battle
over land. If I'm not mistaken, this charter school borders that piece of
land that was annexed into Herriman from Bluffdale. If this is true, I wonder if
the big $$ of the developer(s), Sorenson??, have been involved behind the scenes
to get this property for the charter school to facilitate opening 40th West to
their new developing neighborhoods to be built in Herriman. Another possible
case of big $$ pushing their way into people's lives. I hate that.
Joel Wright | 9:32 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Traditional public schools have the power of eminent domain to place a school
where ever they want, so long as they pay fair market value for the land. Why?
Because cities would frequently block them otherwise -- schools do generate
traffic, and they do not pay property taxes.
Charter schools are also public schools, and thus have an equal right to locate where they want. But they do not have the power of eminent domain, they have to negotiate with the landowner, and pay what ever price the landowner wants.
Furthermore, as a member of the State Charter School Board, I personally reviewed Providence Hall's application, and believe it has all the ingredients to be a SUPERB school. Providence Hall will be much less crowded than the neighboring public schools, and will be free. Fortunately, they still have a few spots left for enrollment -- I would encourage the parents around the school to take a tour as soon as possible, and decide if their child would be happier at Providence Hall. It is typically impossible to get your child into most charter schools after their first year because their enrollment is capped, and they cannot accept additional students.
Charter schools are also public schools, and thus have an equal right to locate where they want. But they do not have the power of eminent domain, they have to negotiate with the landowner, and pay what ever price the landowner wants.
Furthermore, as a member of the State Charter School Board, I personally reviewed Providence Hall's application, and believe it has all the ingredients to be a SUPERB school. Providence Hall will be much less crowded than the neighboring public schools, and will be free. Fortunately, they still have a few spots left for enrollment -- I would encourage the parents around the school to take a tour as soon as possible, and decide if their child would be happier at Providence Hall. It is typically impossible to get your child into most charter schools after their first year because their enrollment is capped, and they cannot accept additional students.
Bad reporting | 9:57 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Another reporter who couldn't be bothered to confirm facts. HB172 dealt
with virtual charter schools and wasn't even passed.
Joel Wright | 10:04 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
And it is worth making two more points:
1. Notification of Bluffdale
The school's developer did notify Bluffdale, and has all required permits.
2. Traffic
The school only has 700 students, and most of the students will arrive in carpools. Furthermore, the drivers will all be the parents of school age children, and thus likely more sensitive to the safety of children. The impact of the traffic is unlikely to be nearly as bad as some of the neighbors seem to think. Furthermore, the school will not be open on weekends, or during the Summer.
1. Notification of Bluffdale
The school's developer did notify Bluffdale, and has all required permits.
2. Traffic
The school only has 700 students, and most of the students will arrive in carpools. Furthermore, the drivers will all be the parents of school age children, and thus likely more sensitive to the safety of children. The impact of the traffic is unlikely to be nearly as bad as some of the neighbors seem to think. Furthermore, the school will not be open on weekends, or during the Summer.
free but restrictive | 10:12 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
a charter school is free but open for anyone in SL valley to enroll and a
lottery that does not guarantee a spot even if you have enrolled. With thousands
of enrollments, how fair is it to those residents to have a school so close but
no guarantee (probably less than 20% chance) that they will even go there? a
regular public school would have been a better choice.
integrity | 10:18 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I have read the guidelines for public schools, charter or otherwise. This school
apparently doesn't have a copy of these, or they chose not to follow them.
Bill | 10:21 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
What a crock!!! Most of you posting here don't even know what you are
talking about. Why is it the Charter School's fault that the city did not
communicate with themselves? If the city council wasn't aware of this
school proposed placement it's the city's fault.
Recognize that public schools because they are children of the state are not required to get local jurisictional approvals either.
Schools typically have little or no activity in the evenings and weekends, are well maintained, no loud teenage parties at night, and great additional parking when my family comes over on the weekends. Wish I could get one next to me.
Recognize that public schools because they are children of the state are not required to get local jurisictional approvals either.
Schools typically have little or no activity in the evenings and weekends, are well maintained, no loud teenage parties at night, and great additional parking when my family comes over on the weekends. Wish I could get one next to me.
this is a traffic hazard | 10:31 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
this may be a "superb" school, but that is not the issue here. this is
a two-lane road, turning into a one-lane dead end street. 700 cars twice a day
on that road will be a nightmare especially if there are middle schoolers
walking to the middle school. Have you seen the traffic congestion on Bangerter
and 13400 S. the time of day this will be taking place? Add 700 more cars to
that.
For Joel | 10:42 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Joel,
Not sure you would know this, but who is paying for the building and the land? Is there a way to find out? Does it all come from the State Legislature or is some private entity putting up the money? I think North Star Academy cost around $5 million and I believe it is leased. Just curious how this works and who is financially backing this new charter school.
Not sure you would know this, but who is paying for the building and the land? Is there a way to find out? Does it all come from the State Legislature or is some private entity putting up the money? I think North Star Academy cost around $5 million and I believe it is leased. Just curious how this works and who is financially backing this new charter school.
Steven Jarvis | 10:54 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Having worked in two Charter schools so far, traffic can be a problem during
afternoon pick-ups, and will be worse the first two weeks and during inclement
weather. Mornings aren't so bad because everyone gets there at different
times and rarely have to wait to unload their kids. The size of parking lots
and carpool plan have a huge impact in allowing this to happen.
The afternoon pick-up won't effect South Hills Middle school. The kids will be home before the build-up of traffic because SHMS likely gets out forty or so minutes before Providence will. If this is an actual concern I am sure Providence can adjust the start and end times of the day to allow this to happen better. Carpool build up starts about 15 minutes before school ends, and goes no more than 30 minutes after school.
As for house values, they certainly won't be going down because of a school being built nearby. The city or State may even widen the road which really seems to be needed already.
The afternoon pick-up won't effect South Hills Middle school. The kids will be home before the build-up of traffic because SHMS likely gets out forty or so minutes before Providence will. If this is an actual concern I am sure Providence can adjust the start and end times of the day to allow this to happen better. Carpool build up starts about 15 minutes before school ends, and goes no more than 30 minutes after school.
As for house values, they certainly won't be going down because of a school being built nearby. The city or State may even widen the road which really seems to be needed already.
Steven Jarvis | 10:56 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
free but restrictive,
I would like to see that rule changed as well. Give families within a two mile radius of the school double the chances in the lottery to be admitted, but that sort of change must be done at the State level.
I would like to see that rule changed as well. Give families within a two mile radius of the school double the chances in the lottery to be admitted, but that sort of change must be done at the State level.
Charter Parent | 11:04 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
First, Charter schools don't "take" property, the property is
purchased/leased by the school from a willing seller/lessor. Charter schools
cannot "condemn" or cause "imminent domain" on property.
They do not have that legal power. Cities and school districts can
"condemn" or cause "imminent domain."
Second, Bluffdale City had to know if zoning needed to be changed as well as any permit the school or landowner needed. I can't see how this could be a "surprise" to anyone at the city. Any public school, district or charter, can build where it acquires property.
Third, our operating K-9 charter school has 550 students and only 200 vehicles in and 200 out per day due to a very successful carpool program organized by parents.
Fourth, a lottery is used for placement because more people enroll in all schools than there is space. Successful schools have more requests for enrollment. Just like open enrollment in a district school, enrollment is limited when space/school capacity is reached when outside a boundary. Charter schools have no boundaries so they fill up by lottery.
Best to all and best wishes to Providence Hall!
Second, Bluffdale City had to know if zoning needed to be changed as well as any permit the school or landowner needed. I can't see how this could be a "surprise" to anyone at the city. Any public school, district or charter, can build where it acquires property.
Third, our operating K-9 charter school has 550 students and only 200 vehicles in and 200 out per day due to a very successful carpool program organized by parents.
Fourth, a lottery is used for placement because more people enroll in all schools than there is space. Successful schools have more requests for enrollment. Just like open enrollment in a district school, enrollment is limited when space/school capacity is reached when outside a boundary. Charter schools have no boundaries so they fill up by lottery.
Best to all and best wishes to Providence Hall!
Simple math | 11:11 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I am tired of people saying there will be 700 cars a day. If the school has 700
students, many of those families will be sending 2-3 children there and many
others will be carpooling. The number will probably be more like 300 or less.
Charter supporter | 11:11 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I can't see 700 cars for 700 students (assuming 1 student per car?) Most
charter schools I've seen appear to have some form of carpooling system
where 3-7 students arrive per car or van. I'll bet it is under 300 cars a
day both to and from the school.
cdmom | 11:12 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Unless you live near a charter school, you have no idea of the impact the
increased traffic has on the residents.
I live near a charter school and have encountered some problems with the traffic including:
1. With a cap of 675, the school insisted that the number of cars would be less then 170 because they would mandate carpools of 4 or more students. This mandate has not worked and more then 250 cars are coming and going twice daily and another 30 for kindergarten pick up mid-day.
2. They promised that they would not interfere with the start times of the local schools. They start at the same time. This creates a safety issue for children walking to ALL the schools(there are three).
3. Because of the increased traffic at least 4 children have been almost hit, while in crosswalks.
4. The charter school parents are turning right out of their parking lot and then trying to turn left on a residential street. The charter school administration told the city that the parents would not use this street.
In general charter schools are not a bad option for education, just bad at being neighborly.
I live near a charter school and have encountered some problems with the traffic including:
1. With a cap of 675, the school insisted that the number of cars would be less then 170 because they would mandate carpools of 4 or more students. This mandate has not worked and more then 250 cars are coming and going twice daily and another 30 for kindergarten pick up mid-day.
2. They promised that they would not interfere with the start times of the local schools. They start at the same time. This creates a safety issue for children walking to ALL the schools(there are three).
3. Because of the increased traffic at least 4 children have been almost hit, while in crosswalks.
4. The charter school parents are turning right out of their parking lot and then trying to turn left on a residential street. The charter school administration told the city that the parents would not use this street.
In general charter schools are not a bad option for education, just bad at being neighborly.
Stuart | 11:18 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I reside in this subdivision, I support choice, but, to the ignorrant and
arrogant I say, this not only smells bad it is bad. We have been lied to.
There has been no impact studies, our mayor knew of the school but neglected to tell us, she did not even show up for the ground breaking, The mayor from another town (Riverton). The fact is the location is BAD. with 700+ students your talking an average of 2000 cars a day... Students... staff... support... food..and what about PTO and working parents running late racing down the street. This is in no way like a public elementary school in our neighborhood. The KIDS WOULD WALK. Common Sense!!
There is space across from the middle school.. down at the entrance to the sub-division, and on the out skirts of the subdivision that ARE DESIGNED TO HANDLE THE TTTRRRAAAFFFIIICCCKKK. This feels like a comunist government take over, what happened to our rights... BAD LOCATION PROVIDENCE HALL > AND SHAME ON THE DEVELOPER WHO PROFITS MILLIONS FROM TAXPAYERS WITH TOTAL DISREGARD TO THOSE WHO ARE NEXT DOOR
There has been no impact studies, our mayor knew of the school but neglected to tell us, she did not even show up for the ground breaking, The mayor from another town (Riverton). The fact is the location is BAD. with 700+ students your talking an average of 2000 cars a day... Students... staff... support... food..and what about PTO and working parents running late racing down the street. This is in no way like a public elementary school in our neighborhood. The KIDS WOULD WALK. Common Sense!!
There is space across from the middle school.. down at the entrance to the sub-division, and on the out skirts of the subdivision that ARE DESIGNED TO HANDLE THE TTTRRRAAAFFFIIICCCKKK. This feels like a comunist government take over, what happened to our rights... BAD LOCATION PROVIDENCE HALL > AND SHAME ON THE DEVELOPER WHO PROFITS MILLIONS FROM TAXPAYERS WITH TOTAL DISREGARD TO THOSE WHO ARE NEXT DOOR
BE HONEST | 11:27 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
again you forget the fact this is not a traditional school where the majority of
kids WALK to school, or ride a bus. We already have one charter school down the
street and have a great relationship with them.... Parents line UP AND DOWN the
street in cars waitng to drop off or pick up kids, ON A STREET WITH MULTIPLE
ACCESS ROUTES... DESIGNED TO HANDLE TRAFFIC.... Wake up UTAH, THERE NEEDS TO BE
CHANGES TO THE LAW THAT OVERIDES INDIVIDUAL AND LOCAL COMUNITY RIGHTS.
LEARN TO ADD | 11:59 a.m. Oct. 16, 2007
how about more like upwards of 2000 cars a day passing in front of my house on
4000 W
There is only one way in and one way out.
750 students, okay say half carpool, that is still 750 trips in the morning, then again in the afternoon, not to mention kindergarten, staff, support, food deliveries, how about for once lets be HONEST and UPFRONT.
There is only one way in and one way out.
750 students, okay say half carpool, that is still 750 trips in the morning, then again in the afternoon, not to mention kindergarten, staff, support, food deliveries, how about for once lets be HONEST and UPFRONT.
wrong again | 12:00 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
There were NO ZONING CHANGES OR HEARINGS.
CITY COUNCIL KNEW NOTHING.
CITY COUNCIL KNEW NOTHING.
OUR LIVING SPACE | 12:11 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
WHEN the DRAW of a neighborhood is the fact that it is a RURAL, QUIET, jogging,
Horse Riding, Dark at Night, KIDS freely WALK TO SCHOOL and BUS STOPS,
Then you run this level of Traffic through the middle of it IN and OUT... Who wants that?
YES HOUSE PRICES WILL FALL, PEOPLE HERE WHO BOUGHT because of what it is, will now leave. Our house values are what they are because of the lifestyle we have all fought to protect and keep, only 4 KIDS from the entire bluffdale area are even enrolled at this school, this was sneaky, and underhanded. Its is all about and Land owner making Profit along with The (DON"T BE FOOLED) MILLIONS to be made by the developer. BAD LOCATION> WE DO NOT WANT YOU HERE.
Then you run this level of Traffic through the middle of it IN and OUT... Who wants that?
YES HOUSE PRICES WILL FALL, PEOPLE HERE WHO BOUGHT because of what it is, will now leave. Our house values are what they are because of the lifestyle we have all fought to protect and keep, only 4 KIDS from the entire bluffdale area are even enrolled at this school, this was sneaky, and underhanded. Its is all about and Land owner making Profit along with The (DON"T BE FOOLED) MILLIONS to be made by the developer. BAD LOCATION> WE DO NOT WANT YOU HERE.
Anonymous | 12:13 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I know the area decently. What is the approximate address of the school. I am
trying to visualize the location.
Yes, let's be honest | 12:37 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
All you complainers are nimbys. I live in a community with a charter school and
yes, there is traffic, but guess what? The neighborhood schools are 3X WORSE,
even with their walkers and buses. That's because people who attend
neighborhood schools don't carpool, and the walkers only walk on good
days.
Every school has the exact same problems that cdmom cited. I don't know of any school that hasn't had traffic or near-misses with children. It sounds to me as though he/she is looking for reasons to join in the feeding frenzy.
As for charters being neighborly, get a life and deal with it. The district school in my area didn't ask me if they could build a junior high school kiddy-corner from my home. I don't know of any developer or business or school or anyone who asks permission from the surrounding neighbors about what to do with his personal property. If you want to hold charters to this standard, at least have the integrity to be non-discriminate and hold all development to this standard. And remember, we are talking about a school here, not a brothel.
Every school has the exact same problems that cdmom cited. I don't know of any school that hasn't had traffic or near-misses with children. It sounds to me as though he/she is looking for reasons to join in the feeding frenzy.
As for charters being neighborly, get a life and deal with it. The district school in my area didn't ask me if they could build a junior high school kiddy-corner from my home. I don't know of any developer or business or school or anyone who asks permission from the surrounding neighbors about what to do with his personal property. If you want to hold charters to this standard, at least have the integrity to be non-discriminate and hold all development to this standard. And remember, we are talking about a school here, not a brothel.
school failure? | 12:47 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
on the END OF 4000W in the Valley, the middle of a neighborhood against a
canal.
What happens if this School Fails?
It is a private Enterprise, and like any private enterprise, the possibility remains that it could fail, for a miriad of reasons, bad leadership, CORUPTION, BAD LOCATION, then what Are we stuck with a 2 story 52000 sq ft eyesore, empty shell
neglected facility, in the middle of our LIVING ROOM? Then what, other businesses move in to occupy it?
Why not put it closer to the Main Road where there could be other alternatives for the building, and easier access for the patrons? This does not even make good business sense.. The drive for the patrons down ito a subdivision with poor access, the liability, and the discontent of the surrounding community
What happens if this School Fails?
It is a private Enterprise, and like any private enterprise, the possibility remains that it could fail, for a miriad of reasons, bad leadership, CORUPTION, BAD LOCATION, then what Are we stuck with a 2 story 52000 sq ft eyesore, empty shell
neglected facility, in the middle of our LIVING ROOM? Then what, other businesses move in to occupy it?
Why not put it closer to the Main Road where there could be other alternatives for the building, and easier access for the patrons? This does not even make good business sense.. The drive for the patrons down ito a subdivision with poor access, the liability, and the discontent of the surrounding community
Barbara | 12:59 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I live in the neighborhood that will be affected and I have many reasons to be
upset over this. Most of these have already been mentioned. However, someone
with the information should inform the people that have already enrolled in the
school what a nightmare it will be for them to bring their kids twice a day
(whether there are 500 cars or 2000, it is 500 too many). I don't think of
the 700+ enrolled, that many know what they will be up against, first trying to
get off and onto 4000 west from 13400 south and then trying to get to the school
and out again. Maybe some of the people enrolled should take a serious look at
this situation. Unfortunately, no one in this neighborhood was given the
opportunity to enroll which would have cut down on the number of cars, because
our kids could have walked! I am all about being open minded but all parties
should be. This could create a disaster. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY IN AND
OUT!!!!!! It is at the end of 4000 West on the only remaining 5 acre plot of
land, designed for 4 homes, not a 52,000SF building.
Charter Supporter | 1:04 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
True, it will create traffic. Then how about working with the people running
the school instead of fighting against them? It sounds like the school is going
to be built, so make the best of a situation and stop hurling accusations in
print and in the media. Charter schools are started by parents for children
(their own and in the community). It is not a money making venture for them.
Board members are not paid, and spend thousands of hours volunteering to make
the school a success. These parents care about their childrens' education,
and they just want to have the choice in that education. The purpose is not to
directly offend you or make your lives miserable.
sufficiently annoyed | 1:04 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Alvin, if you are a planning commissioner you would serve your community better
by learning the facts before you speak. In your position, you should know that
charter schools DON'T have the power of eminent domain, which is why it was
necessary for the legislature to give charters the right to build their school
wherever they were fortunate enough to acquire land. This levels these charter
public schools with district public schools, who DO have the power of eminent
domain and can build wherever they darn-well please WITHOUT city approval.
I can see that getting a taste of your own medicine isn't going down very well. Cities don't seem to mind exercising the power of eminent domain and condemnation when it suits them, but when another entity exercises the powers they have been given and it inconveniences the city, you act all offended. Perhaps we should start lobbying the legislature to remove your powers too...
I can see that getting a taste of your own medicine isn't going down very well. Cities don't seem to mind exercising the power of eminent domain and condemnation when it suits them, but when another entity exercises the powers they have been given and it inconveniences the city, you act all offended. Perhaps we should start lobbying the legislature to remove your powers too...
get a clue bone head | 1:11 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
THIS SCHOOL IS ON THE EEENNNDDD OF A STREET NOT MADE FOR THE TRAFFIC!!!
WE PURPOSELY BOUGHT HOMES WITH A DEAD END STREET!!!
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT!!!!!!!
THERE ARE PLACES ALL AROUND US THAT EVEN IN OUR SUBDIVISION THAT ARE BETTER SUITED FOR THE SCHOOL.
BESIDE THE FACT THAT THE ONLY WAY WE EVEN FOUND OUT THE SCHOOL WAS COMING WAS ONE WEEK AGO SOMEONE IN THE COMMUNITY READ THE LAST PAGEOF THE PAPER. THE MAYOR LIES AND SAID SHE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT, AND THE DEVELOPER AVOIDED THE AREA EVEN TO HAVE AANNYY RECRUITMENT.
LIES, AND DECIEPT POINT TO CORUPTION.
GET OFF MY PORCH!
THE SIZE OF THE LOT AND BUILDING CAN'T POSSIBLY AFFORD ENOUGH ROOM FOR ENOUGH PARKING.
WE PURPOSELY BOUGHT HOMES WITH A DEAD END STREET!!!
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT!!!!!!!
THERE ARE PLACES ALL AROUND US THAT EVEN IN OUR SUBDIVISION THAT ARE BETTER SUITED FOR THE SCHOOL.
BESIDE THE FACT THAT THE ONLY WAY WE EVEN FOUND OUT THE SCHOOL WAS COMING WAS ONE WEEK AGO SOMEONE IN THE COMMUNITY READ THE LAST PAGEOF THE PAPER. THE MAYOR LIES AND SAID SHE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT, AND THE DEVELOPER AVOIDED THE AREA EVEN TO HAVE AANNYY RECRUITMENT.
LIES, AND DECIEPT POINT TO CORUPTION.
GET OFF MY PORCH!
THE SIZE OF THE LOT AND BUILDING CAN'T POSSIBLY AFFORD ENOUGH ROOM FOR ENOUGH PARKING.
cdmom | 1:27 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
The difference with the three district schools in town and the charter school is
that the district school parents are more likely to have their children walk and
ride the bus then drive them to school, or at least we were. With the added
traffic of the charter school, walking to the middle school in our town has
become a hazard. The charter school did not like the placement of the
crosswalk, so they had one painted a half block closer to the school and it is
on an angle because of an existing parking lot. Instead of painting this
crosswalk, the charter school could have come to the city and ask about moving
the crosswalk to the south corner instead of the north corner, this would have
been safer for all the children. But, I have come to believe that charter
school parents care for only their children and do not care for the children who
still have to get to school with increased traffic!
If charter schools are so great and do not disrupt lives and neighborhoods, how come the Founding Parents never seem to build charter schools in THEIR neighborhoods?
If charter schools are so great and do not disrupt lives and neighborhoods, how come the Founding Parents never seem to build charter schools in THEIR neighborhoods?
location!!! | 1:29 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
PLEASE understand. No one in the area of the new charter school is against
charter schools!!!! It is about where it is at! There are clearly better
choices. Residents AND parents of kids at the school will be negatively
affected by this choice. Come drive by and see for yourselves. The address is
14200 S. 4000 W. (Enter from 13400 S. and 4000 W.) In 13 years of living in
this neighborhood I've never seen the community unite as I've seen the
last couple of days. There is a reason for this. This is a community of
rational, hard working, honest people. We are not out to be difficult, we are
just very familiar with the neighborhood and understand the impact it would
have.
To Barbara | 1:32 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Everyone has the option of enrolling. You just go to the school website at
providencehall.com and enroll your kids. It's open to the public. Yes,
it's a lottery system which is the only way to make it fair, but your kids
stand a chance of getting in as much as any other kid. I was at a meeting that
said the first lottery is the best chance to get in and I talked to someone that
said this first lottery ends October 31st. It's on their website.
Unbelievable! | 1:42 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Wow. I am appalled. Can you believe that a group of parents would be so
selfish as to care enough about the education of their children and your
children too that they would spend years and thousands of volunteer hours to
found a school?!? The gall of them to sacrifice time with their families, jobs
and personal activities, some to the point of financial instability and personal
reputations, all so that 700 children can have a chance at a better education!
And without a dime in compensation, why, it's absolutely sinful!
Hey but I'm glad to see you all are here behind the anonymity of your computer screens spreading rhetoric to let them know that their wicked ways will not be tolerated. Thank goodness you have the decency to prize your contrived home values, which will mean nothing after this life, over truth, respect, the value of a child, and the good deeds of others. You are true examples of virtue to your children and your neighbors...bless you...
Hey but I'm glad to see you all are here behind the anonymity of your computer screens spreading rhetoric to let them know that their wicked ways will not be tolerated. Thank goodness you have the decency to prize your contrived home values, which will mean nothing after this life, over truth, respect, the value of a child, and the good deeds of others. You are true examples of virtue to your children and your neighbors...bless you...
Barbara - response | 1:52 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
We were told by multiple sources that the enrollment is complete and only 4 kids
from Bluffdale made it in. None that are in are neighborhood.
To unbelievable | 2:14 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Its not about the property values. Read a little closer. Its about the
traffic. Its going to be just as bad on the educators and parents/kids that are
attending the school as the neighbors.
You people are saints! Keep up the good work. You would be better off with a different location, regardless of the neighbors.
You people are saints! Keep up the good work. You would be better off with a different location, regardless of the neighbors.
Steven Jarvis | 2:14 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
CDMom,
"But, I have come to believe that charter school parents care for only their children and do not care for the children who still have to get to school with increased traffic!"
This statement is very discouraging. I have never met a parent that didn't care for children in general, slowed down when approaching a school and looked after children's safety not just their own.
That being said, I don't like the location of the school. I have never been down this particular road, but have been to SHMS many times as a sub. The 13400 corridor is always packed and needs to be widened, and the additional traffic on the street pushes the need even further.
The school is going to built so I suggest finding workable solutions to the problems that this will cause. It would help if the street was connected, and no longer a dead end, 13400 widened (which is already a need) and the city council to become more informed of the permits the city is giving out.
"But, I have come to believe that charter school parents care for only their children and do not care for the children who still have to get to school with increased traffic!"
This statement is very discouraging. I have never met a parent that didn't care for children in general, slowed down when approaching a school and looked after children's safety not just their own.
That being said, I don't like the location of the school. I have never been down this particular road, but have been to SHMS many times as a sub. The 13400 corridor is always packed and needs to be widened, and the additional traffic on the street pushes the need even further.
The school is going to built so I suggest finding workable solutions to the problems that this will cause. It would help if the street was connected, and no longer a dead end, 13400 widened (which is already a need) and the city council to become more informed of the permits the city is giving out.
Wow! | 2:15 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I find it interesting that you choose to be upset with the charter school. What
about the planning commission? Sure seems like it would have been a good idea
for them to inform their citizens about a new school, which is exactly what our
planning committee did for us in our community. What a ridiculous notion that
the charter school should inform you, when they were clearly within their
rights. If your planning commission, who live in your community and are your
neighbors somehow didn't think this was a big enough deal to let you know
about it, then you should be a little more involved in who serves on that
committee rather than get upset with people who are trying to improve the
educational opportunities you can offer your children.
Anonymous | 2:16 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I for one would like my home value reduced. I plan to stay for awhile and the
property tax is killing me.
Steven Jarvis | 2:22 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
What Happens if the school fails:
To my knowledge that has happened to one Charter in the Salt Lake City School District since schools have been formed this way. There are a few that have the potential to do so.
If the school closes, it should happen at the end or beginning of the school calendar year. The landlord has an empty property and is losing money on his/her investment. At some point a Private school will take the vacated space. The students go elsewhere (most to local District schools, some to Private, a few back to home school and a handful to other Charters).
I expect this to happen quite frequently if/when Vouchers are approved.
To my knowledge that has happened to one Charter in the Salt Lake City School District since schools have been formed this way. There are a few that have the potential to do so.
If the school closes, it should happen at the end or beginning of the school calendar year. The landlord has an empty property and is losing money on his/her investment. At some point a Private school will take the vacated space. The students go elsewhere (most to local District schools, some to Private, a few back to home school and a handful to other Charters).
I expect this to happen quite frequently if/when Vouchers are approved.
To Barbara | 2:25 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Enrollment is not complete. The first lottery hasn't even been held yet!
typical | 2:33 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Barbara, let me guess...you were "told from multiple sources" but you
didn't actually go to the SOURCE to find out anything. That happens a lot
around here...
To Steven Jarvis | 2:51 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
With the huge overcrowding problem in our district schools and the very healthy
waiting lists for charters, I see no reason why any of them would shut down
if/when vouchers are approved. This is a typical anti-voucher tactic - scare
people. Stick to the topic at hand, which has nothing to do with vouchers.
Brain check | 2:55 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Unbelieveable,
GET a clue!!
Coruption, Traffic, and the "railroading" of our right to peace, safety and comfort. No one has said anything derogetory about the efforts or ideas of those who run the school. The developer and the Owner on the other hand have been devious in their tactics.
The Bottom Line is it is a bad LOCATION>
Don't Change the argument.
Ther are alot of other spots in and around the same development that are better suited for the school.
which by the way will be the second charter school in our community.
Build it in your neighborhood!!
These people are coming from everywhere else in the Valley, except from the community they are trying to railroad.
Why should we accept that??
GET a clue!!
Coruption, Traffic, and the "railroading" of our right to peace, safety and comfort. No one has said anything derogetory about the efforts or ideas of those who run the school. The developer and the Owner on the other hand have been devious in their tactics.
The Bottom Line is it is a bad LOCATION>
Don't Change the argument.
Ther are alot of other spots in and around the same development that are better suited for the school.
which by the way will be the second charter school in our community.
Build it in your neighborhood!!
These people are coming from everywhere else in the Valley, except from the community they are trying to railroad.
Why should we accept that??
Location | 2:58 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
Stupid Location ....Period.
Thoughtless, and total disregard for being good citizens... Selfish...
Just because you have the right does not always make it RIGHT.
Thoughtless, and total disregard for being good citizens... Selfish...
Just because you have the right does not always make it RIGHT.
Steven Jarvis | 3:02 p.m. Oct. 16, 2007
I was responding to a previous poster who asked what would happen if the school
closed.
The Private school that took over my former elementary school failed three times during its first year and changed names/ownership. Many of these schools will not make it. Charters are more likely to work than a Private school, and by track record have proven themselves.
The Private school that took over my former elementary school failed three times during its first year and changed names/ownership. Many of these schools will not make it. Charters are more likely to work than a Private school, and by track record have proven themselves.
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