Deseret News | Nuances of vouchers elude many

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Nuances of vouchers elude many

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A Teacher | 10:34 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I want to send my children to private school when the time comes. I want them to have the best education possible. However, I want to also give the children who live in this state the best education they can get. I will pay the tuition, and I will pay my taxes. Vouchers are selfish on so many levels. I have worked in the public education system and I agree it is flawed, just like everyone is this world is flawed. People who villify public school Teachers are ignorant at best. Public school teachers who insult private and charter schools are also extremely close minded.

The whole problem is that vouchers aren't just about your kids, but your neighborhood's kids and the state's kids. Pulbic education makes society safer and keeps people out of prison. Why would we want to take money away from a program that does that? You have to look at the big picture. Private schools are private. I you want to send your children there, as I plan to, you need to pay for it, and not by taking it from someone elses chilren. Vouchers are just another method of tax evasion.

Conserned Parent | 10:35 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Here are the links you will want to view to make an important choice on this matter:

House Bill 148 http://le.utah.gov/~2007/bills/hbillamd/hb0148.htm

House Bill 174 http://le.utah.gov/~2007/bills/hbillenr/hb0174.htm

(Advocacy Group Against Vouchers)
http://www.utahnsforpublicschools.org/index.php

Advocacy Group For Vouchers
http://schoolchoiceutah.org/index.php

I wish the media would publish this information too.

I will be voting for Referendum 1. I believe from the cost analysis I have done with my personal finances, if you can afford daycare, it is reasonable to afford most private schools (that is in my area anyway) and a little help from the government could go a long way for the less fortunate. Also, it common practice today that the government "privatize" a lot of their work. I know Hill AFB is currently working on this with base housing. Also road construction crews are usually private and in education, we currently do this by providing Pell grants to college students to go to private universities. I think it is great the legislature made this a win/win where the bill allows public schools to keep more than half the $7,000 dollars allotted to each child and will evaluate in 5 years. Please take the time to investigate the links before you vote. Thanks.

Justin | 10:36 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

My children are grown and finished with school. Why do I pay for any school costs, public or private? The reason is that we as a society believe that educating children benefits society as a whole. Generations ago all schools were private and only the rich were educated. Government determined to fund education by taxing us, primarily through property tax assessments. All should be educated and all should help pay for the costs of education. However, that does not mean that there is only one way to reach the goal. For each child who receives a voucher and leaves the public education system, there will be more room and more money per pupil for those who remain in the system. Sometimes trying a new approach gets better results. I support the referendum and expect that over time we will see better results for both public and private aducation.

Comments continue below

JPH | 10:39 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I read all the comments and still find the pro-voucher group to be incredibly uninformed and ignorant (obviously publically educated). THIS IS NOT REALLY PUBLIC MONEY. It was extracted from all of us with the promise to provide schools. Evidently many of us including the legislature and the governor believe that we deserve a CHOICE in the application of those funds. And no, this is not a tax break for the rich. First, they paid the highest taxes to fund this; and second, the access to these funds is means based. And stop telling us that there is no accountability or that this is about religion. Are you faulting the education delivered by Judge or Juan Diego? Did not those people pay taxes for education?
This entire issue is based on fear of competency by members of the UEA.

arc | 10:40 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I like the cookie ads. Mr. Eyre makes the reason for voting for vouchers simple. I also like the fact that the laws (two of them) were passed by the legislature and governor. The 2nd one passed by a super majority.

If the UEA hadn't got their feeling hurt over this, or just power hungry, these laws wouldn't be in question.

Vote for cookies. Vote for vouchers.

Hello?????????? | 10:40 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

If it is in fact true that the public school system "loses" money when kids are pulled out, where does that money go? We all still pay taxes, even the parents of the child who "chose" differently. Is this the reason that the dollar amount per child has gone up? If so, there is, nor has been, any proof that the extra money makes a difference. Nothing in our system has changed for the better over the past few years, even though many studies have shown the poor state of our public school system!
I am all for the kids! I also believe public school is a good thing. However, it is not working! In other words, A LITTLE COMPETITION NEVER HURT ANYONE!!!!!!!
The public school system is no different than our welfare system...they both need to require a whole lot more from the adults who "use" them!!!!

Simple Economics | 10:42 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

The voucher system will only give up to $3,000 per student. That is less than the amount per student that comes into the public schools already (I think it's ~$7,000). So, even if a family qualifies for the full $3,000 voucher, that still leaves $4,000 in the public school system, as well as one less student to fund. That results in a net increase in funding for the remaining students in the public education system.

And why are private school teacher qualifications even an issue (according to some commercials)? It's the parent's decision to enroll their child there. Do we make sure parents have 'appropriate qualifications' if they choose to home school their kids?

Economically, this makes sense. The voucher program will result in more per-student funding for public schools as well as help parents who want to enroll their kids in private schools. It's a win-win scenario.

Anonymous | 10:53 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

To all those who are complaining about public money going to pay for private schooling, have you ever complained about public money being used to pay for a scholarship to send your children to a private university or to send special needs children to a private special needs school? How are vouchers any different?

Also with the bill holding schools harmless for 5 years, I say lets give it a try and if it doesn't work then we should repeal it.

Robo | 11:07 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

You can read the actual law on the State of Utah's website. It's not terribly long and actually fairly straight forward. Enjoy!

James | 11:09 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Vouchers have been done in Utah already, for almost a decade that is. It is called a charter school.

With charter schools the money follows the child. And it follows a child to an environment that some would not agree with, though that is the essence of choice.

Vouchers, the money follows the students. They just get even less burdensome regulation then charter school operators. That is what this is about: deregulation.

And ALL of the arguments used to try and defeat charter schools ten years ago - and I mean all of them - are being used again now.

Those arguments were wrong ten years ago, and they are wrong today.

And that includes the fear that charter schools are going to bankrupt the system, open religious academies, subsidize the super wealthy, etc, etc, etc

Didn't happen there, isn't going to happen here.

vouchers are good | 11:10 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

1. vouchers go to parents who then choose the school, it does not support religion.
2. Competition does improve education: compare the systems in Europe.
3. vouchers will help teachers and kids but hurt unions; that is why the UEA is against it.
4. the only teachers to be harmed will be those who should be fired but can't be due to UEA negotiations.
5. if you are a republican, then why do you want to continue supporting a socialistic school system?

Wasatch Back | 11:16 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Because I live off the Wasatch Front, in rural Utah, it seems that there is no benefit to us since public schools are our only option. So if you take the Pro-Voucher ad with the cookies, they are going to take our cookies away from rural Utah to benefit the elite in the Wasatch Front. Now why should I support that? The Pro-Voucher group has done a very poor job and selling their point, other than to say that you are a Liberal if you are against the Voucher. Those are fighting words when you take my money away and tell me I am a Liberal if I don't like it.

Amber in Ogden | 11:32 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Like the person said above. That extra money the pro voucher people keep talking about will only be in the public school system for five years. Then the public schools will be left high and dry and the private schools will still be getting money.
The idea that public schools will get more money is not only misleading but bordering on a flat out lie. And the people who are pushing this bill without letting the public fully understand are being very sneaky. They just want what they want and they want us to pay for it while the public schools suffer.
Public dollars should be in public schools where we have a say in what is taught

$100 million lost | 11:37 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Private vouchers will take out over $100 million before one additional student leaves public education. If 33,000 students already in private schools receive the $3,000 voucher, then there goes $100 million from the public schools. Another 25,000 students would have to leave public schools before the public schools break even. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I can't say that I don't drive on I-80, so give me a tax credit, parents with children in private schools can't either.

C is for Cookie | 11:51 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

The cookie commercial would be more accurate if they smashed the cookies up at the end and gave a few small crumbs back to the public schools.

See. You had a full cookie before. Now you get a crumb. Isn't that great?

Private vs Religious School | 11:51 a.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Your tax $'s SHOULD not go to RELIGIOUS schools. How is money that is going to a religious school that requires worship not funding religion? I don't think that any tax dollars should go to religious colleges and universities either. BTW, yes I am a religious person, and I would take a closer look at vouchers if they stipulated that $ could only go to non-religious private schools.

Kevin | 12:02 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Vouchers aren't good, "vouchers are good."
1. Uh... the money does go to religion.
2. There's already competition.
3 & 4. I cannot speak to these.
5. I'm an R, but vouchers are not less socialism. The tax money is still being handed out one way or another. I just don't want it going to unaccountable private schools, especially ones that teach religion I disagree with.

FUNDING | 12:05 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Money for schools is mostly from the federal government, except some from property tax, and some state sales tax. Thats why if test scores are not keep up funding is cut, by no child left behind. The money is done by a head count. No mater what the state does short term that money will be cut by the federals and the state will pick up the tab. Someone that use's cookies to show you money staying in the public system after a child is removed must not think you are very smart tax payer's.

Steven Jarvis | 12:06 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Thanks for the links Conserned (sic) parent. They used to be provided on the articles at the beginning of this monstrous debate.

Just to clarify your misconception about the "about half" the money that stays. That pays for the schools built the last twenty or so years that are still bonded and comes out of Property tax.

Sure would be nice if that money actually went to educate the child directly. But it doesn't.

Grant | 12:10 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I wonder what exactly is broken in our school system. I read generalizations, "the school system is broken," "studies show the system is broken." What exactly is broken? How do we fix it.

Will vouchers fix what is broken? Will privatization fix it?

Before I went to school to be a teacher I worked in the world of business. Do we want to run schools like some businesses are run? Look at Enron,GM, etc.

At least 50% of start up businesses fail in the 1st year of operation. Many large corporations when they don't do well fire their employees to save money, but you don't see the CEOs taking much blame - most of the time they don't take a salary cut because their company doesn't do well.

Document the problems with education and fix them. Don't just take someones belief and make a law. Fix the problem! (By the way the UEA is not the problem. The UEA came about because of the need for teachers to work together to gain the bennefits of protection from abuse by poor managers whether they were poor principals, superintendents, or legislators.)

OH NO!?! | 12:10 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

The more educated all people are the better off we all are ( lower crime rate, better economy, better health etc).

That having been said BOO HOO that some people are taking your tax dollars ( and thiers) and wanting to use them for private schools. Good for them!

Honestly let people have choice. Better yet- let them use ALL the tax dollars that would been used if their child had remained in public school and let them use it for the school of thier choice.

This is a democracy- its about having the ability to choose.

If the public schools are so afraid about losing students ( and money) maybe they should step up to the plate and improve. Competition is a great tool to make people or organizations shape up!

In precis, VOTE YES TO VOUCHERS!

Concerned | 12:17 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Having been a public educator for over thirty years, and having come from a family of public educators; let me join with those who state that changes need to be made in public education. That however, does not mean that taking public funds to support private education is the answer. Public educaton is being regulated to death while there is minimal supervision of privated education. Let's take the dollars that are being spent trying to accomodate federal reporting requirements and use them to improve instruction.

A concerned educator | 12:19 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I consider myself to be a Republican and yet I enjoyed the comment by ï¿½The Maestro.ï¿½ The leadership of our legislature does seem to think they are the smartest people in any room they happen to be in. There is an arrogance there that disturbs me, and I agree with him that their actions need to be scrutinized closely. I think this comes from the fact that many of them happen to be successful businessmen who think that any problem can be solved by ï¿½free market competition.ï¿½ What I think they lose sight of is that government needs to factor in how its decisions affect the playing field for all citizens. While. as a rule, I believe the free market to be the best mechanism to distribute goods and services, I do think there is a role to be played by our government in determining social balance and fairness.
As I said, I'm a Republican and one of my core beliefs as a Republican is the idea of federalism. I think our education system has worked remarkably well over the years. Why not make what we have better by becoming more active and informed in our school districts?

Steven Jarvis | 12:19 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Hello???????,

A very good question. The way we fund our educational system is quite mysterious, and I don't fully know how it works despite my best efforts.

When a child leaves so does the funding for the child by the State--the WPU (around $4,500). The money can be used for several educational programs like former Governor Walker's reading program, or diverted to other educational funds such as Higher education. Some of the 'excess' funds will no doubt go to furthering UVSC's transition to full University status, and I am quite pleased with that. But none of the money truly stays at the Public school when a child leaves to use a Voucher. That is why the Mitigation Fund was set up.

Mitigation money was set up to hold schools 'harmless' from the loss of funding as children leave. It lasts for five years and only comes into effect if the child was ever enrolled in the Public system. It will be averaged and divided up among all the district schools. This fund and Vouchers currently come from the General Fund, and not the Education Fund. But that can and will eventually be changed.

Oreos all soggy | 12:20 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

While the oreo analogy of more money, less students in public schools is interesting, I don't think it shows a true picture of what the voucher program does to public schools. Basically, as the funding decreases, the class size increases as schools are no longer able to pay for the same number of teachers. Less money in the school budget, means a decrease in the programs available for students. It's not just a matter of a few less students and dollars, it's less in the budget for what already poorly funded schools to work with.

The public system is not perfect, but it has been set up to offer an education to everyone. Charter schools are a great alternative for those who are disgruntled or aspiring to something else. Public funds should not be given to the private sector.

Hello Wasatch Back | 12:23 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

If no private schools are available in your area, then no students are going to leave, and no "cookies" will be removed. In fact, since the schools where students leave will eventually receive less "cookies", then there will be more for your schools. The overall education budget sure as heck is never going to go down, so vouchers actually help your schools. Try thinking a little harder next time.

fr1nk | 12:25 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

If we really cared about "fixing" public schools then we have to start with the students. The reason American students are falling behind the world is because in other parts of the world students are the ones in competition, and so they work harder than our lazy kids. If they fail they dont advance. When kids fail here in the states the parents run down to the school and blame the teacher. "Why did YOU give Jonny an F?" Because that is what Jonny earned. I agree competition would help our system, but that competition should be between the students. Say if you dont do well enough then you dont advance.

Steven Jarvis | 12:28 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Simple Economics,

Children should be taught by someone who has been properly trained and licensed by the State. This is a minimum standard, and I don't understand why someone would require less than the minimum level of competency. But here I see Voucher backers lauding substandard accountability.

If you were to take that line of thought to medicine (gee, I'd like to have my hairdresser cut me open for surgery because it is MY choice after all), it is easier to see why most think lack of credentials in Private schools is absurd.

Many in Private school are credentialed, but the simple lack of this accountability standard in the Voucher Bill is more than enough to condemn it for the safety and education of the kids. I fear that many parents just assume a 'teacher' has been accredited and don't ask. Having worked in a Charter school I know that parents don't typically ask.

Steven Jarvis | 12:31 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

The Voucher bill has an interesting way of dealing with the Religious issue. The Voucher (paid quarterly) goes to the school, BUT in the name of the parent who has enrolled the child. This is a clever way to allow parent's a religious education paid by the state, but not quite in violation of the State Constitution.

If the Voucher law does manage to pass, this is going to be the next battleground in the courts.

Steven Jarvis | 12:42 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

The education system IS broken, and this is how the legislature broke it.

The legislature broke funding off from Impact fees because of the amazing revenues that Park City was making beyond what their school district needed. While this was great for Park City and made quite a bit of sense, Granite, Jordan, Davis, Alpine, Nebo and other districts lost their primary source for building funds.

The legislature next broke funding by sharing Public K-12 funds with those of Higher Education during the 90's. This happened when more and more families were moving in and having kids.

I don't think many schools other than new ones built have been able to afford replacing text books because they haven't had money to do so for a long long time. I have been in schools where the current history book has been outdated for twenty-five years.

Yes Utah's educational system is broken. Our legislature wants to make it even more broke with Vouchers

UEA. Show a willingness to help | 12:48 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Maybe vouchers won't solve everything, maybe merrit pay isn't the total answer, but the UEA needs to show a willingness to try something... anything. Every time a new idea is presented to help public education, the UEA immediatley shuts it down. It seems the only acceptable solution to the UEA is to keep everything the status quo, and to just give them more money. I've got news for you. There no more money to give. There just isn't. We all want to give the best to our kids, but the tax payer has other obligations to meet as well.

To the UEA. You say you don't want vouchers...fine. You don't want merit pay... that's fine to. Then what? Do you really want to find an answer, or are you just interested in shooting down every other idea? Is there anybody in that organization willing to put some time into thinking of a different solution?

UEA. Show the tax payer you are willing to look at any other solutions other than give me more money.
Everybody business and government entity could demand that.

Thats the easy way out. Your better than that.

Steven Jarvis | 12:52 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

fr1nk,

Yours is one of the better posts because of the last line in it.

We need accountability for the students and parents as much as we have for the schools and teachers.

I simply could not teach a child in my classroom last year because his mother checked him out regularly on the few days he was in attendance. Yet his Zero on the year end test scores because he had not attended to take any of the CRT tests reflected solely on me his teacher. This child should have been retained the previous year for the same reason (and likely retained every year he was in a public school), because the behavior of his parent caused this child to be on a first grade level on the core subjects and he was still moved through the system.

Steven Jarvis | 1:04 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I am not a member of the UEA.

The UEA does show a willingness to improve Public education. For all its faults, the UEA provides quality training for educators willing to hone their teaching abilities, to address the needs of different learners and to improve the lives of students and teachers. As far as politics they barely make a squeak.

To my knowledge the UEA has been trying for decades to solve the funding issue for Utah kids basing it on quarterly enrollments not yearly ones (because a funding gap exists as hundreds of kids move in after October 1st). The UEA is powerless when it comes to Utah politics

Vouchers come about and the legislature has no problem funding those quarterly despite telling the UEA NO NO NO repeatedly to fix funding.

After Vouchers are defeated, hopefully the PTA and other voices in education press the funding issue in Utah. While the legislature can ignore the UEA, they can't ignore everyone else.

KH | 1:09 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I think both sides of this debate are well intentioned.

I am conservative by nature and would usually be FOR a movement like education vouchers. However I do not support the Voucher law because I don't like the unintended consequences I feel are almost certain to follow for my children and the state in general.

Many people will be left in the public school system (for various reasons). If enough people bail on it, that will just accelerate the decline of that system into a second-class education with a welfare-like stigma where snooty people look down their nose saying... Eeew, you go to a public school?

People need to be able to take pride in their education (public or private). Many people have pointed out the outsiders are watching Utah on this. What will outsiders considering moving to Utah (who expect a good public-education system)
think when they learn that our public-education system is considered abismal and 2nd class, good for only those on welfare? Do you think they will move here or somewhere with a good public-education system?

If Utah public schools are not good enough for you, they are probably not good enough for me.

JN | 1:14 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Still a NO to vouchers from me!

Tongue in Cheek | 1:18 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

You rich people just want to send your kids to private school and leave public schools with the extra money. What if most everyone left public schools altogether? Then the few remaining public school students would get a million dollars a piece. That is not fair! Stop the vouchers from spending all that money on public schools!

tongue in Cheek | 1:45 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I have so many fan-boys now (even in the paid voucher supporter club), though I am still the original tongue in Cheek and do not endorse Vouchers in anyway.

:P

I endorse free cookies and milk for everyone instead!!!

bob | 1:47 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

As a teacher I want to run my classroom like a business. If a student is not performing then I want to be able to kick them out and not let them come back. That is what happens in the business world. I am happy to work for merit pay if I get to choose the students. Since niether of these ideas would meet with public approval I am asked to perform a magic trick. I need to educate unmotivated lazy students and be held responsible when they cannot perform. Now you want to make do this magic trick without any money and still blame me for your problems.

E Smith | 1:49 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

To Anonymous: After having reviewed much of the information available on this issue and having read what little can be gleaned from tis forum, I can see why you use the pseudonym "Anonymous". If I were as illogical as you represent yourself to be in this comment forum, I too, would prefer to remain anonymous. Better to thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Steven Jarvis offers one of the better reasoned and informative comments in several day's reading even if I believe the logic is biased/flawed. Unfortunately, this issue will likely be decided on emotion rather than accurate information.

Blinded by the Light | 1:56 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

This article seems to imply that those who don't understand vouchers and the associated legislation are the ones who will vote against them? I think nothing could be further from the truth. Those who really understand the laws and the system are the ones who will vote against vouchers. It's about all of our kids not just a few. People already have great choices for their kids' education. Just one of them happens to be the public education system which deserves our utmost attention. I have to believe that all those public educators out there have my kids' best interest at heart and are almost all working diligently to provide the best they can with what we give them and I think they have served me and my children well. The teacher's I've met seem like dedicated professionals (albeit human and imperfect - go figure). Watching our legislature praise themselves highly for funding education in a way that puts us last in the nation in per pupil spending helps me understand why teachers need a union to help them with contract negotiations. I'm sure many of us would make the same choice given the circumstances.

Sam | 1:59 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Bob,
I wish you could kick out your bad students! I agree that we don't allow true discipline in the public classroom. Please vote for vouchers and you may eventually get discipline back for the good of students and society.

Cleetorn | 2:17 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

It has taken a lot of time/research for me to come to an educated conclusion about the voucher system. The origin and destination of funds notwithstanding, it seems like a wonderful idea EXCEPT for a couple of real flaws. Freedom of choice is one of this Country's rights and one I appreciate fiercely. However, ï¿½freedom of choiceï¿½ in this case has an important stipulation to it. A parent may choose to enroll their ï¿½poorï¿½ student in a private school but it doesnï¿½t end there. Private schools have particular standards they require of students. If the private school doesnï¿½t want to accept the application of an ï¿½undesirableï¿½ student, they donï¿½t have to. Choice will mean nothing in such a situation. And these ï¿½standardsï¿½ are determined by administrators who may/may not have any educational credentials. Do I want my children ï¿½administered toï¿½ by a business agent or taught by someone who has education qualifications of their own to draw from? I want the best my kids can have and am willing to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve that end, public or private. Vouchers as they are currently written are NOT good for the system. Reevaluate and resubmit better, more appropriate alternatives.

Kyle | 2:25 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

The Antagonists then respond:
"All children do not cost the same to educate. Chances are, according to the current system, the students who are most likely to leave the system are those who cost the least to educate. If those who cost least to educate leave, and take their money with them, the public school system will take an undocumentable loss.
Another thing to note is that if students who have born-advantage (generally those born into the upper and middle classes)leave the public schools, the public schools will lose an intangible social element, diversity, that will cause students of born-disadvantage to be at even further dis-advantage."

Jenny | 2:25 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I'm not going to pretend that I entirely understand this referendum, because quite frankly I don't. So far I feel that neither side has bothered to explain it in it's entirety.

However I have noticed that those who support vouchers imply that all of the struggling possibly qualified for special education students are the ones who will benefit from vouchers.

This idea is flawed. Most special education is held in public schools, and unless I'm much mistaken most private schools are either art schools or religious institutions not alternative learning centers.

I'm also offended by voucher supporters implications that public schools are harbors for corrupt and uncaring teachers. I attend a public school and almost all of the teachers I know are hard working and dedicated to helping students learn, despite the fact that they are paid next to nothing. Some of them may not be saints, but at least they're all certified, which is more than I can say for teachers who work at private schools.

All I ask is that voters support me where I cannot support myself and vote against vouchers.

Sam | 2:30 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Cleetorn,
If you had vouchers, your child would never be "administered to" by anyone. You would be free to send them to any school that didn't have such values or poor credentials, including PUBLIC SCHOOLS if you so choose. Unfortunately, the only alternative acceptable to some is no alternative at all.

VOTE NO | 2:54 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Just vote no. We dont want the public school kids messing up our kids private school education its for the smart kids with smart parents that can afford to send them and we dont want your kids.

Lane Meyer | 3:26 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Somehow the behemoth called the UEA needs to be broken. It is simply to large and corrupt. It's product is inferior do to its interest in self preservation at all cost and its unwillingness to improve of its own accord. Also, the socioeconomic impact of its continued dominance is detrimental to the proliferation of a healthy society.

Donald | 3:34 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

If all the rich white smart kids go to private schools, then public schools will be void of the the brightest, and public school teachers won't have to dumb down their lessons anymore. The middle becomes the high and the low becomes acceptable.
It could work.

Actual Utah Resident | 3:39 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

Lane Meyer,

The UEA is broken and powerless as far as politics in Utah are concerned. Or do you consider that because they actually got a candidate or two they supported at the last election into office makes them a political juggernaut?

The UEA is not the Public school system. Where does PCE come up with you posters? They should have paid actual people in Utah to comment on the boards instead of you out-of-state pushers.

Anonymous | 3:44 p.m. Oct. 12, 2007

I am for fair competition.

Vouchers is akin to having BYU play against Alta High School in football. They compete, but in different forums.

Will Voucher accepting schools be required to accept any student?

No.

Will Voucher schools have the same testing and accountability requirements of Public schools?

No.

Can people vote on Private school boards?

No.

Where is the choice? Where is the competition that Vouchers are heralding in?

Hogwash.

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Nuances of vouchers elude many

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Utahn's pet python dies at age 43

Harpring's NBA career is over

Letters: Liberal because LDS

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Harpring's NBA career is over

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Harpring's NBA career is over

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Reader comments Nuances of vouchers elude many

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Reader comments
Nuances of vouchers elude many