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Procter & Gamble plant Utah-bound?
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Kjirstin Youngberg | 7:16 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Utah would be an excellent choice for P & G. A strong, smart and stable
work force, low humidity, and our earthquakes so far haven't been as large
as California's. It's a no-brainer!
anonymous | 7:46 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Thank you!!!
Comments continue below
Be clear.. | 7:53 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
This deal and RSL seem like very different deals. Both have the opportunity for
positive economic impact but the first line of the article said its a rebate
which would indicate to me that the company has to "PAY" first before
the state pays anything. In fact as I read the article further it seems to me
the state is only giving back 30 cents on the dollar. I don't know about
you but if you gave me a buck and then told me some time later I only had to
return 30 cents, I would do that deal every time. Wouldn't you?
Anonymous | 7:53 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
You are absolutely correct! Gov't should use incentives to draw private
companies. But when they use taxes, it is made up somewhere. Hold on to your
wallet!
Same deal | 9:04 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Be clear - this is exactly the same deal (almost to the dollar) as the RSL
stadium. SCP had to fork out $110M before the state would write the check,
making it a rebate.
People, government gives money to private businesses all the time! Why do they do it? Because they have the potential to get even more money back through taxes on those businesses and taxes on the money its employees make. It's called an investment, and it's a major source of income for almost all governing bodies. Utahns need to stop being so afraid that the government is out to get them & bleed them dry.
People, government gives money to private businesses all the time! Why do they do it? Because they have the potential to get even more money back through taxes on those businesses and taxes on the money its employees make. It's called an investment, and it's a major source of income for almost all governing bodies. Utahns need to stop being so afraid that the government is out to get them & bleed them dry.
MINNIE | 10:23 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
WOW! Eighty five Million!
110 Million!
MIND BOGELING!!!!
110 Million!
MIND BOGELING!!!!
BH | 10:42 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Anonymous:
Your comment suggests that you feel the incentives include taking money out of current tax revenue. This is not the case. Instead, the government is offering a cut on the taxes that Procter and Gamble would have to pay for a time.
When all the numbers are done, Utah citizens and state tax commision would all come out winners, as the revenue that the business would bring into the state far exceeds the tax cuts.
As a past Box Elder County resident, I hope this works out for Utah.
Your comment suggests that you feel the incentives include taking money out of current tax revenue. This is not the case. Instead, the government is offering a cut on the taxes that Procter and Gamble would have to pay for a time.
When all the numbers are done, Utah citizens and state tax commision would all come out winners, as the revenue that the business would bring into the state far exceeds the tax cuts.
As a past Box Elder County resident, I hope this works out for Utah.
Casey H | 10:52 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Congrats to our Governor and the leaders working on this opportunity. This
would be great for Utah and especially for Box Elder County if this works out.
The numbers are simple enough to run and I am sure the fiscal analysts have done
them and checked them twice to make sure that this is a net increase to
Utah's economy. I for one am glad Utah is trying to be more competitive
recruiting top companies.
Corporate Welfare | 11:48 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Many people have a negative opinion of tax money subsidizing the RSL stadium in
Sandy. Do the same people have a negative opinion of tax money subsidizing
other corporations, such as Micron, IM Flash, and now Procter & Gamble?
I figured... | 11:59 a.m. Oct. 10, 2007
It would not take long to bring up the Stadium issue. And look, it's on
the first comment!
Utahns can not continue to complain about low wages if they get upset about the state putting out incentives to bring jobs here.
What happens if there are more jobs than people...wages go up.
Utahns can not continue to complain about low wages if they get upset about the state putting out incentives to bring jobs here.
What happens if there are more jobs than people...wages go up.
Soccer Vs. Jobs | 12:08 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Tax money for soccer �entertainment�
and money for job creation are two different things. Without employment nobody
could go watch soccer. Not that many pay to see it anyway. Why just this
morning on 103.5 the arrow, the DJ�s were laughing about
how they can't even give away RSL tickets.
Soccer doesn�t have an economic impact like a plant that employs thousands of people. Also, P&G is a proven company, RSL is a soccer team that has little support and will eventually fail.
Soccer doesn�t have an economic impact like a plant that employs thousands of people. Also, P&G is a proven company, RSL is a soccer team that has little support and will eventually fail.
Make up your minds | 12:42 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
So we have the Governor's Economic Development commission offering $85
million in taxpayer dollars to bring a plant to Utah that will produce throwaway
paper products.
At the same time we have the Governor's Global Warming commission telling us that our carbon footprint is too big and we're killing Mother Gaia.
Make up your mind, Governor Silver-Spoon. Do we want economic growth, or not?
If so, then stop pretending that we need to cut down on carbon emissions.
If not, then don't waste taxpayer dollars to subsidize a factory that will surely increase our "carbon footprint".
At the same time we have the Governor's Global Warming commission telling us that our carbon footprint is too big and we're killing Mother Gaia.
Make up your mind, Governor Silver-Spoon. Do we want economic growth, or not?
If so, then stop pretending that we need to cut down on carbon emissions.
If not, then don't waste taxpayer dollars to subsidize a factory that will surely increase our "carbon footprint".
Are you serious | 1:11 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Wow, soccer vs. jobs, that might be the most ignorant anti-soccer post I've
ever seen (and I've seen a few). Let's analyze your statement point
by point, shall we?:
"Not that many pay to see it anyway" - Ummm, actually RSL averages 16,000 paid per game. That's a statistical tie with the Jazz, yet RSL has 1/20th the payroll. RSL is 4th in MLS in attendance.
"Soccer doesn't have the economic impact like a plant that employs thousands" - You do know that when Real Madrid and the U.S. National Team came that each game brought over $10M in out of state revenue, right? 100% of that was discretionary spending. How long would it take "thousands" of employees to spend that much disposable income?
"RSL is a soccer team that has little support....." - See my comments above.
".....and will eventually fail" - What makes you think that? Where's your evidence? Just because you don't like or understand soccer doesn't mean it will fail.
Yep, your comment was a real gem. Full of truth and facts and all that.
"Not that many pay to see it anyway" - Ummm, actually RSL averages 16,000 paid per game. That's a statistical tie with the Jazz, yet RSL has 1/20th the payroll. RSL is 4th in MLS in attendance.
"Soccer doesn't have the economic impact like a plant that employs thousands" - You do know that when Real Madrid and the U.S. National Team came that each game brought over $10M in out of state revenue, right? 100% of that was discretionary spending. How long would it take "thousands" of employees to spend that much disposable income?
"RSL is a soccer team that has little support....." - See my comments above.
".....and will eventually fail" - What makes you think that? Where's your evidence? Just because you don't like or understand soccer doesn't mean it will fail.
Yep, your comment was a real gem. Full of truth and facts and all that.
RE: Are you serious | 2:13 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Thanks for posting that data. The old "soccer stinks" crowd
don't realize the impact of having an MLS franchise had on Utah. Soccer is
only going to appreciate in value for the coming generations. RSL is going to
be part of it.
property | 3:29 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
It is my understanding that the property has already been purchased about three
miles west of Bear River City in Box Elder County.
CWS | 3:58 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
I'm embarrassed by some of the comments from my native state. I have lived
away from Utah for the past 24 years. I love Utah, but I cannot comprehend your
hestitation with this company. By the above comments, I am led to believe that
you simply do not understand the positive impact that Procter and Gamble will
have on your community and State. Where P & G is: good things happen. Small
communities and larger ones all benefit from the numerous projects and
organizations that Procter and Gamble consistently is involved in. For the past
23 years we've been a Procter and Gamble family. Read, get informed, ask
questions and then make your comments.
Reader | 4:03 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
For good or bad, tax dollars for economic development is the way the game is
played by all states. I would much rather have my taxes help subsidize a
business of this type which can bring tangible economic benefits to Utah than a
ridiculous soccer stadium that is merely a status symbol for Checketts and his
bunch that will likely struggle to stay financially afloat. More people in Utah
and elsewhere will notice and care that a P&G plant is located in Utah than
an unnecessary stadium for a sport that relatively few adults care about.
BE CLEAR... | 5:00 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Read the article! No Utah citizen tax dollars are being used or will be used for
the "$85 Million dollar" P&G deal. P&G will have to generate
tax in payroll, corporate income and sales tax paid to the tax commission before
they get a dime REBATED. The state is not writing a check. If I give you a
dollar today and asked for 30 cents "BACK" next week, "who"
is giving "who" money? Think about it. P&G is giving Utah a
dollar and they are getting 30 cents back AFTER the money has been paid and
sitting in the Utah Tax Commision bank account. Its not tax payer dollars.
Seems clear to me! That being said, the P&G deal is NOT the same as the RSL
deal.
Ken Goddard | 5:29 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
Internationally, bribery is a crime. Within the United States, bribery is the
method that the individual states use against one another to attract business.
Call it what it is.
Dave | 7:57 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
I'm surprised that no one seems to differentiate between giving a tax
rebate to encourage a soccer stadium and in giving a rebate to encourage a fine
manufacturing and distribution to locte in Utah.
The soccer stadium collects its revenue from Utahns, not from out-of-state customers. Thus it is like making money by taking in each others' washing.
On the other hand, P & G products produced in Utah will be overwelmingly purchased by out-of-state customers. This brings new revenue into the state!
The Utah incentive program makes sense in that it rewards the out-of-state company for what they do, not for what they assume and promise they will do.
The soccer stadium collects its revenue from Utahns, not from out-of-state customers. Thus it is like making money by taking in each others' washing.
On the other hand, P & G products produced in Utah will be overwelmingly purchased by out-of-state customers. This brings new revenue into the state!
The Utah incentive program makes sense in that it rewards the out-of-state company for what they do, not for what they assume and promise they will do.
John | 8:33 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
"No Utah citizen tax dollars are being used or will be used for the
"$85 Million dollar" P&G deal. P&G will have to generate tax
in payroll, corporate income and sales tax paid to the tax commission before
they get a dime REBATED. The state is not writing a check. Think about it.
P&G is giving Utah a dollar and they are getting 30 cents back AFTER the
money has been paid and sitting in the Utah Tax Commision bank account. Its not
tax payer dollars. Seems clear to me! "
The fact that such convoluted logic and ignorant math seems clear to you, indicates that the quality of education in this country is declining faster than I thought.
This is really a sad commentary on the intelligence of the american tax payer.
You are aware that if their tax burden is $100, and big brother gives them back $30, then there is $30 that has to be made up by the rest of the taxpayers????
Good grief. Free money for everyone!!! Come and get it from BE CLEAR!!
The fact that such convoluted logic and ignorant math seems clear to you, indicates that the quality of education in this country is declining faster than I thought.
This is really a sad commentary on the intelligence of the american tax payer.
You are aware that if their tax burden is $100, and big brother gives them back $30, then there is $30 that has to be made up by the rest of the taxpayers????
Good grief. Free money for everyone!!! Come and get it from BE CLEAR!!
Dave | 9:27 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
John, get real!! Their tax burden will be zero if they do not move to Utah!!
You are the one with convoluted logic and of economic reality. I suppose you
will dismiss my thoughts as evidence of a lack of economic education on my part
since I merely received my MBA from Harvard Business School.
Dave | 11:58 p.m. Oct. 10, 2007
#Are you serious:
"actually RSL averages 16,000 paid...4th in MLS in attendance."
You're conveniently skipping over how both of those figures have dropped consistently over the past years. MLS isn't new anymore. And the team just doesn't win games. That's not destined to bring in new converts.
"RSL has 1/20th the payroll" (Compared to Jazz).
Unless the taxpayers are footing the bill for the players' payroll, this isn't even relevant to the discussion.
"When (two major exhibition games came)...each brought over $10M in out of state revenue... How long would it take thousands of employeees to spend that much..etc"
Since new employees are residents rather than visitors, a fair comparison between the two must include employees' full income, not disposable, when calculating the impact on our economy.
300 employees at an average of $43k equates to $12.9M in the first year alone. Also per the article, $400M in 10 years and over a billion in 20.
RSL's every-other-year event bringing in $10m is nice, but ain't even close to those figures.
Giving up $85M in taxes for $280M return seems a decent investment, especially since otherwise they'll just build elsewhere and send that huge revenue to someone else.
"actually RSL averages 16,000 paid...4th in MLS in attendance."
You're conveniently skipping over how both of those figures have dropped consistently over the past years. MLS isn't new anymore. And the team just doesn't win games. That's not destined to bring in new converts.
"RSL has 1/20th the payroll" (Compared to Jazz).
Unless the taxpayers are footing the bill for the players' payroll, this isn't even relevant to the discussion.
"When (two major exhibition games came)...each brought over $10M in out of state revenue... How long would it take thousands of employeees to spend that much..etc"
Since new employees are residents rather than visitors, a fair comparison between the two must include employees' full income, not disposable, when calculating the impact on our economy.
300 employees at an average of $43k equates to $12.9M in the first year alone. Also per the article, $400M in 10 years and over a billion in 20.
RSL's every-other-year event bringing in $10m is nice, but ain't even close to those figures.
Giving up $85M in taxes for $280M return seems a decent investment, especially since otherwise they'll just build elsewhere and send that huge revenue to someone else.
a different Dave. | 12:08 a.m. Oct. 11, 2007
@John:
"You are aware that if their tax burden is $100, and big brother gives them back $30, thenthere is $30 that has to be made up by the rest of the taxpayers????"
Let's be a little more realistic.
If their tax burden is $100, and we give them back $30, but because this plant has opened in Utah and employed Utah residents, we bring in $50 in income taxes and $60 more in sales taxes, I would have to say we've come out ahead, wouldn't you?
If you add that all up, you've got $210 in tax revenue coming in, minus $30 being rebated, for $180 in net tax revenue that can go to good use. Or, they can build in some other state whose residents can figure this out, and we can get... hmm.. diddley-squat?
"This is really a aad commentary on the intelligence of the american tax payer."
Your post is a sad commentary on the intelligence of the average tax whiner. I look at this deal and see more revenue coming in than going out because I look at the whole picture, not JUST the rebate. Try it.
"You are aware that if their tax burden is $100, and big brother gives them back $30, thenthere is $30 that has to be made up by the rest of the taxpayers????"
Let's be a little more realistic.
If their tax burden is $100, and we give them back $30, but because this plant has opened in Utah and employed Utah residents, we bring in $50 in income taxes and $60 more in sales taxes, I would have to say we've come out ahead, wouldn't you?
If you add that all up, you've got $210 in tax revenue coming in, minus $30 being rebated, for $180 in net tax revenue that can go to good use. Or, they can build in some other state whose residents can figure this out, and we can get... hmm.. diddley-squat?
"This is really a aad commentary on the intelligence of the american tax payer."
Your post is a sad commentary on the intelligence of the average tax whiner. I look at this deal and see more revenue coming in than going out because I look at the whole picture, not JUST the rebate. Try it.
Be Clear. | 9:01 p.m. Oct. 11, 2007
John,
A simple "You were right, I was wrong" will show contributing to this BLOG was worth the time spent. Insulting me or my intellegence is your right, not admitting that you may be misinformed or uneducated on the matter would be the true "sad commentary". Thanks Dave and Dave for sharing "unconvoluted" logic.
A simple "You were right, I was wrong" will show contributing to this BLOG was worth the time spent. Insulting me or my intellegence is your right, not admitting that you may be misinformed or uneducated on the matter would be the true "sad commentary". Thanks Dave and Dave for sharing "unconvoluted" logic.
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I'm willing to bet no one throws up their arms in protest like those who did just that in regards to the recent construction of the RSL stadium. Utahns should all take a course in economics before complaining about government creating incentives for businesses and individuals. It's pathetic how short-sighted some of us are.