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Utahns want crackdown on illegal immigration
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Bob G | 6:08 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
The crack down must come in the form of going after businesses that employ these
illeal aliens. They are not immigrants that have gone through any immigration
process. Our city and state laws require all business to obey state and federal
laws. Businesses are violating these state, city and federal laws by employing
them so we need to punish these businesses and take away there business license.
Then we need to make it unpleasant for the illegal aliens being in this state.
By state constitution the children of these illegals must prove citizenship and
legal status that burden the Utah education systems with their non english
speaking children. The illegals have no rights, freedoms, or the access to any
social programs. They do not pay taxes, except sales tax, and often falsify
documents to not pay that. Every aspect of the americans rights and freedoms
have and are compromised by the illegal foreign nationals. They have not earned
the respect of the american people as they live and hide in their underground
illegal communities of deceit, lies, and acts of terrorism. Laws atacking
businesses employing illegals openly is how it should be done and state
agency's forbidden to support illegals.
disgusted mexifornian | 6:46 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Agree'd. In California, where I live, my grandchildren can't get a
decent education because spanish speaking "anchors" demand and receive
spanish speaking teachers. All this does is hold the rest of the class back.
Enough of this nonsense. They also get free hot lunches under the WIC program
(which goes to waste) that my grandkids can't get! Its gotten so doggoned
out of control. No wonder people are mad.
Comments continue below
Justin | 7:05 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
A comprehensive solution is urgently needed. Expelling 12 million people will
only add chaos. Labor will be more expensive and prices will shoot up. Try
paying $5 for a piece of lettuce, potatos or tomatos. Some towns in NJ tried
tougher measures and now they are regretting it. Samll business owners,
contractors and landlords are luring them back. We need an enhanced or better
working permit program to allow those already here and with no criminal records
work in this country. Otherwise exploitation and other abuses will continue.
We need to accept the reality of this crisis, and move forward.
supporter of the Constitution | 7:23 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
US legislators are cowards. They see a chance for votes if they let illgals
become citizens with amnesty. Utah senators are just as bad as all the others.
In my opinion most all of them could be impeached---each one took an oath to
uphold the Constistitution. One of the major responsibilities of the federal
government is to protect our borders, which, obviously, is not being done.
Hopefully, our state legislators will have the courage to do what the federal government is unwilling to do.
Yes, my vote will always go to the one who is willing to address this issue and uphold the constitution at all levels of government.
Hopefully, our state legislators will have the courage to do what the federal government is unwilling to do.
Yes, my vote will always go to the one who is willing to address this issue and uphold the constitution at all levels of government.
Dave | 7:33 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
While Illegal emigration has to be stopped for numerous reasons, there is no
denying that there is a critical need for workers. These issues must be
addressed simultainiously.
Mike | 7:52 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
What a shocking headline!
When did this happen? News to me! Does this mean something will be done about it? I'm confident our elected politicians will move on this immediately. Surely this is something we can take care of in a timely manner...
When did this happen? News to me! Does this mean something will be done about it? I'm confident our elected politicians will move on this immediately. Surely this is something we can take care of in a timely manner...
Mark Butler | 7:55 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
It's interesting to watch the Republican Party falling on its sword on this
issue. They will lose the votes of an entire generation of Hispanic citizens
through their apparent bigotry (note that I said "apparent"--I'm
not suggesting that they're all bigots) on this topic. It's time for
the state to encourage the rising generation of Hispanics to become fully
integrated into American society, not to make them feel like unwanted outsiders.
It's the right thing to do, and Mr. Donnelson and his ilk are pandering to
the worst instincts in American politics.
Wade E. MIller | 8:05 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
It's extremely important that Utah, as well as the United States, return to
the rule of law which made this counrty great. For too many years lawmakeres
have mostly ignored the illegal immigration problem. As a result we're in a
very dangerous situation. It's dangerous not only for security reasons, but
for the tremendous unfair tax burden it is levying on its citizens. It would be
well for President Bush and Congress to take bolder, positive steps to remedy
the situation than has hitherto been done.
Keith, California | 8:10 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
I can understand the frustrations of the people of St. George about illegals.
I'm sure many of them "escaped" from California only to find the
same problem there. Something has to be done. Has anyone really calculated the
cost of illegal immigration?
Total Dispair | 8:14 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
After years of fighting the battle of illegal aliens I am finished! My job is
outsourced to the illegals, my kids are forced to learn spanish in the schools,
ect. ect.
I hope Utahns enjoy the future they have chosen by ignoring the illegal alien crisis. Good luck, I'm leaving the state .
I hope Utahns enjoy the future they have chosen by ignoring the illegal alien crisis. Good luck, I'm leaving the state .
Patriot | 8:22 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Councilman Orton sure didn't get it when he thought that other issues were
more important than Immigration for the citizens of St. George. Maybe he was
representing the wrong constituency? Sounds like he wanted to talk about issues
that business favors and not the real issues that affect real people? As for
comprehensive reform in Utah....it isn't comprehensive reform that is
needed. What is needed is a willingness on the part of coward politicians in
the state legislature to stand up to GOV. RHINO Huntsman Jr. and pass laws that
take the goodies and benefits away that attract illegals to Utah. Modeling our
laws along Oklahoma's is a great place to start. Contrary to some of the
people quoted, this isn't a complicated issue. Yes, it is emotional
because people are trying to protect their language borders and culture.
It's a natural self protection mode we all have when we want to survive.
Face it you elites we are being invaded and colonized and the people are sick
and tired of it. You have no right to cheap labor at the expense of our nations
future. "We the People" will stop you.
FromCali | 9:06 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
I just moved my family from California six months ago and have seen the problems
that illegal immigration cause. We had hospitals shut down because they were
inundated with illegals seeking medical treatment and then not paying the bills.
Crime is WAY up and most of the increase was from illegals. We lived in a lovely
neighborhood and started seeing gang markings on walls and houses and that was
the last straw that brought us here.
Don't get me wrong. I am 100% for LEGAL immigration but when people cross the borders ILLEGALLY so that they can take advantage of our system of government then there is something wrong with the system.
Don't get me wrong. I am 100% for LEGAL immigration but when people cross the borders ILLEGALLY so that they can take advantage of our system of government then there is something wrong with the system.
CA Resident | 9:26 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
I live in the Los Angeles area. Illegal immigration has for the most part
destroyed public education in CA. My wife, who is a teacher, has to dedicate a
lot of time during the class day to teach these kids English. The other half of
her classroom gets left sitting there with no instruction during that time. A
lot of time and money is spent on teaching children of illegal aliens, who even
in Spanish are far behind in the basics. You may have a 3rd grade class but the
children of illegal aliens are usually on Kindergarten level. So instruction is
dumbed down.
There is a huge demand now for private education in CA since the public schools are a mess.
There is a huge demand now for private education in CA since the public schools are a mess.
Arizona | 9:59 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
We have workers- just not ones that will work for the wages that those here
illegally will accept. Used to be that you could find a decent job as a
carpenter or working for an electrician. My brother earned money in the summer
mowing lawns in the neighborhood. Not anymore. "Landscaping"
companies hire day laborers, houses are built using illegal immegrants and the
list goes on- because the employers can pay them less aand make a bigger profit.
And meanwhile, identity theft is growing as those here illegally steal SS
numbers and identities- including those of children- so that they can slip
through the check that employers are required to run A number of new laws have
been enacted in Arizona in the past couple of years, much to the dismay of the
open border crowd, because people are tired of the inaction of the federal
government. Things like shwoing ID to vote (upheld in federal court), no instate
tuition for non-citizens, no bail for those here illegally accused of a serious
crime etc. States will take matters into their own hands if the federal
gov't refuses to deal with it- you can see it happening all across the
nation.
Rob | 9:59 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Don't forget that most of you have European ancestors. They came here and
built a wonderful nation. Most people that come here illegally don't want
to be in the country illegally, but they don't have a better option. They
also want to contribute to this great nation and our lawmakers can make the
difference by providing a solution to this issue. It seems to me that many
comments posted here make reference to the Hispanic community as a
"plague". Well like it or not they are also human beings that want to
have the same benefits you and I have here. It's not their fault for being
born in a foreign land. WE are ALL children of God and in the heavens there is
not a racial barrier.
Foolishness.... | 10:10 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
How do I become an illegal alien?....they have better benefits than the
citizenry!
Russ | 10:22 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
I would like to address some of the previous comments:
One mentioned a $5 piece of lettuce. Please! Try being honest for a change.
The cost of labor in getting our produce to market is about 7 percent of the total cost. If a head of lettuce costs a whole dollar (it doesn't!), doubling the wages from the present minumun wage, would add a grand total of seven cents to the cost of that whole head of lettuce! Seven cents!
Maybe even Americans could afford to take these jobs with this adjusted wage!
The real issue is that employers want to continue to 1) ignore the law, 2) treat these criminal illegal aliens as slaves, 3) profit from knowing that they can get out of paying the appropriate taxes that they would have to pay an American citizen.
My message: START HOLDING EMPLOYERS ACCOUNTABLE!
One mentioned a $5 piece of lettuce. Please! Try being honest for a change.
The cost of labor in getting our produce to market is about 7 percent of the total cost. If a head of lettuce costs a whole dollar (it doesn't!), doubling the wages from the present minumun wage, would add a grand total of seven cents to the cost of that whole head of lettuce! Seven cents!
Maybe even Americans could afford to take these jobs with this adjusted wage!
The real issue is that employers want to continue to 1) ignore the law, 2) treat these criminal illegal aliens as slaves, 3) profit from knowing that they can get out of paying the appropriate taxes that they would have to pay an American citizen.
My message: START HOLDING EMPLOYERS ACCOUNTABLE!
It's Too Late | 10:28 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
It's interesting the D Snooze is reporting Utah's citizens are opposed
to law violation, since they've long been an advocate and proponent of
illegals. They recently ran a sob story about ex-illegals now living in
Mexico.
Politicians (not statesmen) are not going to get tough on anyone who could vote for them--and illegals pose a potential large voting block for someone. That's why nothing has been done to enforce existing law, no physical or technological fence has been constructed, nor to resolve the state of those who are here illegally.
The stories printed here and there about 20 or 30 illegals rounded up and shipped back are intended to soften us, to make us think the government is finally cracking down on this problem. These are, however, nothing more than public relations stunts intended to get us to back off.
Government leaders, politicians, and the media know the gullibility of the (unwise) masses. I'm glad the masses haven't been won over on this issue.
Politicians (not statesmen) are not going to get tough on anyone who could vote for them--and illegals pose a potential large voting block for someone. That's why nothing has been done to enforce existing law, no physical or technological fence has been constructed, nor to resolve the state of those who are here illegally.
The stories printed here and there about 20 or 30 illegals rounded up and shipped back are intended to soften us, to make us think the government is finally cracking down on this problem. These are, however, nothing more than public relations stunts intended to get us to back off.
Government leaders, politicians, and the media know the gullibility of the (unwise) masses. I'm glad the masses haven't been won over on this issue.
Utah Patriot | 10:29 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Every elected federal and state official who refuse to support and enforce
current law concerning illegal aliens need to be impeached from office and
deported to a third world country
DustBowl | 10:37 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Rod Orton didn't make it past the primaries due to his inability to follow
the wishes of his constituents. It is a problem that is larger than
illegal-immigration, it's the eventual replacement of all elected officials
in Washington County. Illegal-immigration was just one of the many reasons that
we did not vote for him.
No hablo espanol | 10:48 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
I do not speak spanish but if you look at the help wanted ads a lot of
companies(fast food, clinics and hospitals) will state that being bilingual is a
MUST. Sorry but I was born in this country so why should I speak another
language for those who are not here legally. It should be a requirement to
immigrate to this country to live to be able to speak the language(Ingles) if
you plan to make it your permanent home and it should be required of all those
who wish to become citizens irregardless of the country you are coming here
from.
Not Black and White | 10:50 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
How much are you willing to pay for your produce? Are you willing to get more
and more of your food from other countries? At a certain point you have to
understand that this issue is more complex than building a fence.
You can put up all the walls you want, but until people can feed their families in their homeland (the ones they really don't want to leave in the first place) any other remedy is just a bandaid.
Until our corporations pay their workers a living wage, wherever they live, we won't have a fair playing field.
Everyone bemoans illegal immigration, but defends outsourcing as good business. They're essentially the same thing. Let's be the compassionate people we say we are and work to better the world, not just our own checkbooks.
You can put up all the walls you want, but until people can feed their families in their homeland (the ones they really don't want to leave in the first place) any other remedy is just a bandaid.
Until our corporations pay their workers a living wage, wherever they live, we won't have a fair playing field.
Everyone bemoans illegal immigration, but defends outsourcing as good business. They're essentially the same thing. Let's be the compassionate people we say we are and work to better the world, not just our own checkbooks.
Broken Arrow | 10:52 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
In a recent movie, "Broken Arrow" was a term used to call in all
available combat air-support when an American was being over run in a war
battle. For five years now, my friends have heard me say, "heck with the
fence on the border, lets put one up around Utah". We are being over-run in
Utah with the illegals. I'm not suggesting air-support of course, but a
"trip-wire" when entering our state. A law should be passed that when
entering our state, an illegal must stop at our Utah State Line possibly at the
truck weigh-in stations to register and recieve a pass to enter our state. At
that time, a certain amount of time is designated as to how long this person can
stay in Utah with illegal immigrant status. Their licence plate numbers and or
all personal infomation then goes in a data-base for future use. Non-conformity
would result in a trip back to the Mexican border with no chance of entering
Utah again to work or live here. Future employers would have to require this
pass before hiring the person in Utah. Bottom line, come here the right way, not
busting existing laws.
Legal Immigrant | 11:05 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
I moved to America for a better life more than a decade ago. I loved my old
home, but America is truly better.
In coming to America, I understood that I would need to master American English and identify with my new nation - assimilate fully into the local culture.
I don't understand why hispanic immigrants (legal or not) expect not to learn english and assimilate like the rest of us.
What made the US a world superpower is the philosophy of the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" - one nation, under God, speaking one language.
This doesn't mean that Americans shouldn't identify with their ancestry & heritage, but we ALL must ally with our nation and speak one unifying language.
I fear for the future of these United States if we don't preserve and defend the unity of one language.
The concept of one national language is not a matter of race, but it is a matter of culture & national identy. America has a culture all of its own, built on the heritage of immigrants from numerous nations.
Without one common language, our nation will fall.
We should tolerate all languages, but only embrace one - AMERICAN ENGLISH
In coming to America, I understood that I would need to master American English and identify with my new nation - assimilate fully into the local culture.
I don't understand why hispanic immigrants (legal or not) expect not to learn english and assimilate like the rest of us.
What made the US a world superpower is the philosophy of the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" - one nation, under God, speaking one language.
This doesn't mean that Americans shouldn't identify with their ancestry & heritage, but we ALL must ally with our nation and speak one unifying language.
I fear for the future of these United States if we don't preserve and defend the unity of one language.
The concept of one national language is not a matter of race, but it is a matter of culture & national identy. America has a culture all of its own, built on the heritage of immigrants from numerous nations.
Without one common language, our nation will fall.
We should tolerate all languages, but only embrace one - AMERICAN ENGLISH
tsm | 11:12 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
"They also want to contribute to this great nation..."
Yeah...that's why many get paid under-the-table, so they don't have to
pay taxes. Taht's why they send the majority of their money back to Mexico
to support thier families.
The illegal immigrants typically come to take advantage of a system that doesn't stop them from profiting.
I'm tired of my tax dollars paying for educations, medical care and housing those who break the law that aren't evn supposed to be in our country in the first place.
I understand most merely want something better for themselves...I do too, but I don't do something illegal to obtain that.
The illegal immigrants typically come to take advantage of a system that doesn't stop them from profiting.
I'm tired of my tax dollars paying for educations, medical care and housing those who break the law that aren't evn supposed to be in our country in the first place.
I understand most merely want something better for themselves...I do too, but I don't do something illegal to obtain that.
Patriot | 11:29 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Rob,
How do you know the ancestry of those who have written on this post? Your right though, the Western Europeans did build a great nation here on the American continent. What is it that you don't understand about illegality? How do you know that those who come here illegally want to be Americans? Playing the race card will not work, although the facts are that most that come here illegally are Hispanic. More Specifically they are Mexican. Those are just the plain facts. What does being Human have to do with anything? Millions of people in the world want to have what we have. However, wanting something and stealing it to get it are not rights of Humanity. Foreigners who break our laws to come squat on our land are not protected. The reason America is so special is because we once had a golden door of borders language and culture to protect the specialness of our land. Respect for law is what allows us to prosper and keep our liberty. Illegal immigration destroys everything good that we have. This is not heaven, it is the United States of America. Even Heaven has borders that keeps out hell.
How do you know the ancestry of those who have written on this post? Your right though, the Western Europeans did build a great nation here on the American continent. What is it that you don't understand about illegality? How do you know that those who come here illegally want to be Americans? Playing the race card will not work, although the facts are that most that come here illegally are Hispanic. More Specifically they are Mexican. Those are just the plain facts. What does being Human have to do with anything? Millions of people in the world want to have what we have. However, wanting something and stealing it to get it are not rights of Humanity. Foreigners who break our laws to come squat on our land are not protected. The reason America is so special is because we once had a golden door of borders language and culture to protect the specialness of our land. Respect for law is what allows us to prosper and keep our liberty. Illegal immigration destroys everything good that we have. This is not heaven, it is the United States of America. Even Heaven has borders that keeps out hell.
Tim | 11:52 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
The two groups most empowered to do anything about the illegal immigration issue
are doing very little or nothing. The U.S. Senate (AKA GlobalCorp Employees,
Chamber of Commerce Employees, and iVotesForSale) is doing nothing because many
make more money doing nothing. My apologies to those U.S. Senators who voted
against amnesty for the above comment.
The other group most able to influence illegal immigration is the American Citizen Hispanic/Latino community. The overwhelming majority of this community lives in close daily contact with illegal aliens. When they do nothing, they are giving implied consent to the illegal aliens to come and remain here.(more below)
The other group most able to influence illegal immigration is the American Citizen Hispanic/Latino community. The overwhelming majority of this community lives in close daily contact with illegal aliens. When they do nothing, they are giving implied consent to the illegal aliens to come and remain here.(more below)
Benjamin "El Chupacabras" Reed | 11:54 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007
As a former Utah resident and General Manager of a Mexican radio station in
Idaho, I'd like to say I am disgusted with the racism and anti-immigrant
sentiment. Immigrants are the background of our nation and only come to work. A
study released in June by Idaho Senator Larry Craig demonstrates they create
more economic output, generate jobs, taxes and the like, at a much greater rate
than they receive back. Not only that, I personally believe Christ would be
disgusted with such hatred. Frankly, I am not afraid to say I support AMNESTY
for those who can demonstrate they have no serious criminal record (which
represent the majority). Look at it this we, if we are Christians, we should
learn to forgive "our trespasses" in order to be forgiven. If someone
comes to work and a job is available that no US citizen wants (and there are
plenty), I say "BIENVENIDOS!" It's time to remember the immigrant
we all once were. Plus, last time I checked, John Alden (an ancestor) on the
Mayflower didn't bother to get a visa from the Native Americans!
Tom | 12:36 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Hey Rob,
Do you know that the Mormon Pioneeers came here to Utah when this was Mexico? they were scaping from the USA of then. If the illegal Mormons were able to progress why not give a chance to all the good working people of Mexico?
Do you know that the Mormon Pioneeers came here to Utah when this was Mexico? they were scaping from the USA of then. If the illegal Mormons were able to progress why not give a chance to all the good working people of Mexico?
Patriot | 1:00 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Tom,
This may have been Mexican territory but it was virtually empty. As you ant-American open border appeasers like to say were a nation of immigrants. Mexico had some nefarious claim to Utah through Spain who had actually claimed it from the American Indians. The facts of the matter are that today America is a sovereign nation and I for one intend to help keep it that way. Have you ever heard of the Mexican/American War? We signed a treaty that was ratified by both Mexico and the United States. We paid Mexico for this land and gave all Mexican citizens citizenship if they wanted it at the time. This argument is hollow Tom. How stupid do you think we are? Actually, Tom we do give lots of good working people a chance from Mexico through legal immigration. If we gave it to everyone that wanted it we would no longer exist. Looks to me like Mexico failed to enforce their immigration laws when the Mormons showed up. They probably didn't have any laws against it. Therefore, the Mormons weren't illegal now were they?
This may have been Mexican territory but it was virtually empty. As you ant-American open border appeasers like to say were a nation of immigrants. Mexico had some nefarious claim to Utah through Spain who had actually claimed it from the American Indians. The facts of the matter are that today America is a sovereign nation and I for one intend to help keep it that way. Have you ever heard of the Mexican/American War? We signed a treaty that was ratified by both Mexico and the United States. We paid Mexico for this land and gave all Mexican citizens citizenship if they wanted it at the time. This argument is hollow Tom. How stupid do you think we are? Actually, Tom we do give lots of good working people a chance from Mexico through legal immigration. If we gave it to everyone that wanted it we would no longer exist. Looks to me like Mexico failed to enforce their immigration laws when the Mormons showed up. They probably didn't have any laws against it. Therefore, the Mormons weren't illegal now were they?
Americans are overweight | 1:34 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
and can't do their menial jobs. They want illegal immigrants to take of
their yard, cook, take care of their children, clean their house while they
watch TV, play video games and go shopping.
Jammer97 | 1:36 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Act now while you can, before the situation gets any worse. Once the illegal
invaders become firmly entrenched with their gangs and crime it will only be
that much harder.
JWK | 1:42 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Rob - You mention that most have European ancestors and you indicate that they
came here illegally. Where do you get that data?
When this country was being populated by immigrants when the Mayflower landed, there were no immigration laws because there was no organized government.
After a government was formed by immigrants who fought for their freedom, laws were set up concerning this issue. European immigrants that came after that complied with the law and integrated into this new society called the United States.
The issue is not about legal immigration but illegal immigration. Those who stand up for doing the right thing will have a strong border, compel the obedience of law, and, at the same time, find a way to help those who want to live here legally.
If we don't do this, there will be no reason to be a citizen of this great country. It won't exist.
A country without law is a country of chaos.
When this country was being populated by immigrants when the Mayflower landed, there were no immigration laws because there was no organized government.
After a government was formed by immigrants who fought for their freedom, laws were set up concerning this issue. European immigrants that came after that complied with the law and integrated into this new society called the United States.
The issue is not about legal immigration but illegal immigration. Those who stand up for doing the right thing will have a strong border, compel the obedience of law, and, at the same time, find a way to help those who want to live here legally.
If we don't do this, there will be no reason to be a citizen of this great country. It won't exist.
A country without law is a country of chaos.
chris | 1:44 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
alot of hype around this issue is fabricated. Furthermore, soon after the last
amnesty those poor workers who were doing these jobs that we won't do, quit
those jobs for better ones leaving another vacuum for more illegal immigration
because those employers were still unwilling to raise their wages. I don't
understand why you liberals cannot comprehend the mechanics of this issue. Pay
more for your lettuce now, or pay ten times more in entitlement programs through
your taxes. I have heard many people argue that illegals don't qualify for
foodstamps. That is technically true in most states, however you must consider
that the average three children anchor babies that they have are considered
legal and therefore their families are defacto recipients since they qualify for
all social services no matter what their unaccounted for parents earn.
JWK | 1:55 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Black and White - true compassion is when all are willing to abide the same
laws and work for the common good. I have compassion for those who come here to
better themselves but they must want to help themselves also.
For them to help themselves they must find a way to obey the laws and integrate into this society. The real issue in my mind is that business wants to have a cheap labor force and Socialists want to have people under their control by doling out freebies that can be taken away if the people do not conform to their beliefs.
Corrupt business and Socialists only want a slave class. They are not compassionate nor worthy of the labor of these good people.
Compassion is not found in raising everyone's taxes to pay for social programs that will doom this country to become like many European countries that are being crushed under heavy taxation and low labor output.
For them to help themselves they must find a way to obey the laws and integrate into this society. The real issue in my mind is that business wants to have a cheap labor force and Socialists want to have people under their control by doling out freebies that can be taken away if the people do not conform to their beliefs.
Corrupt business and Socialists only want a slave class. They are not compassionate nor worthy of the labor of these good people.
Compassion is not found in raising everyone's taxes to pay for social programs that will doom this country to become like many European countries that are being crushed under heavy taxation and low labor output.
Wilkey | 2:05 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
P.S.
I have a suggestion for all those businesses claiming they're "struggling" to find labor. Instead of claiming that you're short of labor and that you're offering market wages, prove to us that you're truly can't raise wages. If you want "guest" workers, show us how much money your business made last year. What were the profit margins, what was the return on investment, how big was your paycheck?
Forbes Magazine just came out with its list of the 400 richest Americans and you know what? The average net worth of the 400 richest climbed from $1 billion to $1.3 billion in a single year - a 30% increase! My 401(k) had better returns than average last year but I sure didn't make 30%.
What's more, between 1979 and 2005, the percent of income earned by the richest 1% of Americans went from 9% to 16%.
I have a suggestion for all those businesses claiming they're "struggling" to find labor. Instead of claiming that you're short of labor and that you're offering market wages, prove to us that you're truly can't raise wages. If you want "guest" workers, show us how much money your business made last year. What were the profit margins, what was the return on investment, how big was your paycheck?
Forbes Magazine just came out with its list of the 400 richest Americans and you know what? The average net worth of the 400 richest climbed from $1 billion to $1.3 billion in a single year - a 30% increase! My 401(k) had better returns than average last year but I sure didn't make 30%.
What's more, between 1979 and 2005, the percent of income earned by the richest 1% of Americans went from 9% to 16%.
Pop Smoke | 2:05 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Sorry Rob, but most illegals couldn�t care less about
contributing to this country. They come here for jobs and benefits and send
much of their earnings back to Mexico, where their allegiance still lies.
�Patriot� hit the nail on the head when he said that Rod Orton mistook the concerns of business for the concerns of the people.
The problems associated with illegal immigration could be easily dealt with if the motivation was there. A system for providing temporary work permits to those who wish to work could be put in place, while businesses that hire illegals could be prosecuted and penalized. If there were no jobs available for illegals, then most would return home to get the proper documentation. So why hasn�t this been done? In my opinion, it is because businesses are raking in huge profits off of the backs of illegals. And documented workers can�t be abused and cheated, as much as illegals can be.
Politicians, bought off by business, continue to shift blame and look the other way, while our hospitals, schools, jails, communities, and our culture, suffer the cumulative effects of illegal immigration, and the honest, hard working illegals continue to be exploited.
�Patriot� hit the nail on the head when he said that Rod Orton mistook the concerns of business for the concerns of the people.
The problems associated with illegal immigration could be easily dealt with if the motivation was there. A system for providing temporary work permits to those who wish to work could be put in place, while businesses that hire illegals could be prosecuted and penalized. If there were no jobs available for illegals, then most would return home to get the proper documentation. So why hasn�t this been done? In my opinion, it is because businesses are raking in huge profits off of the backs of illegals. And documented workers can�t be abused and cheated, as much as illegals can be.
Politicians, bought off by business, continue to shift blame and look the other way, while our hospitals, schools, jails, communities, and our culture, suffer the cumulative effects of illegal immigration, and the honest, hard working illegals continue to be exploited.
Bill | 2:11 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
"Do you know that the Mormon Pioneeers came here to Utah when this was
Mexico? they were scaping from the USA of then. If the illegal Mormons were able
to progress why not give a chance to all the good working people of
Mexico?" - Tom
Tom, There were virtually no Mexicans living in the territories "stolen" during the war. In 1850, California's population was less than 100,000 people. There were NO major Mexican settlements in Utah (and none, period, so far as I know). And in Colorado there was only Pueblo. The Indians living here had no loyalty towards Mexico.
That's why the Mexican government actually encouraged Americans to move into Texas and California - they wanted to earn revenue and secure their claims through settlement. The stipulation was that Texans would have to learn Spanish and convert to Catholicism. Of course the American settlers never did that - kinda like all those people who claim that Mexican settlers will adopt American language, customs, habits, and political and religious beliefs.
Tom, There were virtually no Mexicans living in the territories "stolen" during the war. In 1850, California's population was less than 100,000 people. There were NO major Mexican settlements in Utah (and none, period, so far as I know). And in Colorado there was only Pueblo. The Indians living here had no loyalty towards Mexico.
That's why the Mexican government actually encouraged Americans to move into Texas and California - they wanted to earn revenue and secure their claims through settlement. The stipulation was that Texans would have to learn Spanish and convert to Catholicism. Of course the American settlers never did that - kinda like all those people who claim that Mexican settlers will adopt American language, customs, habits, and political and religious beliefs.
Wilkey | 2:29 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Chamber of Commerce, cheap labor types idolize Adam Smith and the free market.
So let's debate on their terms. What did Adam Smith say would happen when a
good (such as labor) was in short supply? He said the price would rise. But the
price of the unskilled labor that we're allegedly short of HASN'T
risen over the last 6 years. In fact real wages have been stagnant, while
business profits have soared.
What should that tell you? The obvious: there is no shortage of labor, just a shortage of honesty on the part of poor mouthing lobbyists.
"Maybe even Americans could afford to take these jobs [in agriculture] with this adjusted wage!"
Where are the teenagers? Isn't helping with the harvest the traditional reason kids get out of school for the summer? Last summer barely 36% of teens 15-19 had summer jobs.
"Everyone bemoans illegal immigration, but defends outsourcing as good business. They're essentially the same thing."
No, they aren't. Outsourcing doesn't bring in more people to put more stress on our environemnt and roads.
What should that tell you? The obvious: there is no shortage of labor, just a shortage of honesty on the part of poor mouthing lobbyists.
"Maybe even Americans could afford to take these jobs [in agriculture] with this adjusted wage!"
Where are the teenagers? Isn't helping with the harvest the traditional reason kids get out of school for the summer? Last summer barely 36% of teens 15-19 had summer jobs.
"Everyone bemoans illegal immigration, but defends outsourcing as good business. They're essentially the same thing."
No, they aren't. Outsourcing doesn't bring in more people to put more stress on our environemnt and roads.
Julius Caesar Tuli | 2:36 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Remember illegal immigation does not just include people from Latin American
countries. Where did your ancestors come from and did they all arrive here to
the "Promise Land" unlawfully too?! And when they established
themselves, how did they treat the real Native Americans whom occupied this land
way before them? Where did they moved the few that survived? Where did they
placed their children? What did they do with their language and their beliefs?
You see where am getting with this. No you don't because you never experience this type of treatment. We Native Americans have and continue to. We are told that with the stroke of the Great 'White' Fathers pen our sacred and precious land will be no more. But this is now all we have.
You see where am getting with this. No you don't because you never experience this type of treatment. We Native Americans have and continue to. We are told that with the stroke of the Great 'White' Fathers pen our sacred and precious land will be no more. But this is now all we have.
RTB | 2:41 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
"It's not their fault for being born in a foreign land." - Rob
Are you saying that a person born in China or England or Mexico has as much right to live in the United States as you or I do? Do you have any idea what utter fanaticism you speak?
Do I have the same right to move to their countries to "better my life" that you think they should have to move to mine? The governments of Mexico, China, South Korea, India, Japan and countless others certainly don't seem to think so.
Every country has laws on immigration. Only America gets called racist for wanting to enforce them. This is the ONLY country we have. We have a right to protect it for the benefit of "ourselves and our posterity."
Are you saying that a person born in China or England or Mexico has as much right to live in the United States as you or I do? Do you have any idea what utter fanaticism you speak?
Do I have the same right to move to their countries to "better my life" that you think they should have to move to mine? The governments of Mexico, China, South Korea, India, Japan and countless others certainly don't seem to think so.
Every country has laws on immigration. Only America gets called racist for wanting to enforce them. This is the ONLY country we have. We have a right to protect it for the benefit of "ourselves and our posterity."
RPB | 4:07 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
A lot of you have the focus on the wrong things, including your solutions. If
you want illegal immigration to stop, start punishing EMPLOYERS. That's
right. The reason they come here is to get jobs. If you severely crack down on
employers who don't take sufficient measures to ensure that immigrants are
legal, you will see the problem disappear overnight.
Throw a $5000 per worker fine on a business for the first time offense, and you will see that no one is willing to hire illegal labor.
The reason no one is doing anything about illegal immigration is because too many large businesses are benefiting from cheap labor. Labor that doesn't have a voice. These workers can be made to work long hours, with no benefits and no ability to voice their concerns.
I agree that people should have a chance to improve their lives, and perhaps we should look at expanding legal immigration options. But, if you truly want to reduce the immigration problem, crack down on the source - employment options and those who provide them. No jobs = no money = no incentive to come here.
Throw a $5000 per worker fine on a business for the first time offense, and you will see that no one is willing to hire illegal labor.
The reason no one is doing anything about illegal immigration is because too many large businesses are benefiting from cheap labor. Labor that doesn't have a voice. These workers can be made to work long hours, with no benefits and no ability to voice their concerns.
I agree that people should have a chance to improve their lives, and perhaps we should look at expanding legal immigration options. But, if you truly want to reduce the immigration problem, crack down on the source - employment options and those who provide them. No jobs = no money = no incentive to come here.
ST GEORGE VOTER | 4:08 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Good article, too bad Rod Orton still doesn't get the message.
Unfortunately illegals bring too much welfare, education problems and excess
crime which are reflected in our taxes. My parents immigrated from England and
Canada, paid taxes, worked hard and legally applied for and became very proud
citizens. I grew up in southern California and everybody spoke perfect English
including the large number of Mexican students that attended my high school.Many
of them were my friends and some excelled in various areas.
NCG | 4:32 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
There is a complete lack of acknowledgement that these illegals come from
countries, most particularly Mexico with horrific civil rights violations. The
Mexican oligarchy has made no effort to improve the lot of the Mexican people.
No decent schools, not decent housing, no decent medicine. Mexico,a country
with wealth and natural resources demands a censure from the world, not the
United States taking in millions of illegals which lowers wages and standard of
living for all American except the elites who make bond with the Mexican
oligarchy. I don't want native born Americans riding around in the back of
pickups, standing on corner for work and living 15 to a household. Soon the
Mexican will be working for the pennies they made in Mexico and so will a great
segment of Americans. Allowing this mass migration is a death wish. Further,
they resent and undermine America. Hope someone stops it, or this country will
be a lousy Mexican outpost.
LEN STEVENS | 5:35 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
MEXICANS , LEAVE OUR JOBS ALONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AMERICANS , FIX THE BORDER
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GVS | 5:50 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
The sob stories and and the argument that all of us have immigrant ancestors are
irrelevant, as well as is where will employers be able to find enough cheap
labor workers. Even the illegal drug users have sob stories,and migration
patterns of the past have no bearing on now or the future. As for finding
enough cheap labor, when employers raise wages enough, they will find the
workers. Employers paying below subsistence level wages are actually being
subsidized by the taxpayers.
American Made | 5:51 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
The "Republocrats" had better pay close attention to the will of the
American People that put them in office, and stop their shameless pandering of
illegal aliens and those (like the A.C.L.U. & La Raza) that enable them.
No drivers licenses.
No path to citizenship.
No anchor babies.
No nothing. Go Home.
Deportation? Si Se Puede!
Like Frankie Laine used to sing...
"Head 'em up...Move 'em out!"
No drivers licenses.
No path to citizenship.
No anchor babies.
No nothing. Go Home.
Deportation? Si Se Puede!
Like Frankie Laine used to sing...
"Head 'em up...Move 'em out!"
HH | 6:25 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
Tom: The good old USA won't remain a sovereign country much longer if the
North American Union
has been established!
has been established!
Rule of Laws | 6:36 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007
How can we give any credence to someone who enters the USA wanting to "be
part of society" if they can't even respect our laws.
They enter the country illegally, don't pay taxes, steal ID, fraudulently abuse our public assitance system.
If you really want to be an American, then follow the law. This isn't a matter of race, it is a matter of national sovereignty and rule of law.
Enter legally, or don't enter at all.
These "illegals" don't love America, or our way of life. They still cleave to Mexico and want America to become a Mexican colony. That's why the Mexican government supports illegal immigration into the USA.
This is an undercover invasion of our country by non-military personnel with the sole intent of colonization - why can't people see this ?
They enter the country illegally, don't pay taxes, steal ID, fraudulently abuse our public assitance system.
If you really want to be an American, then follow the law. This isn't a matter of race, it is a matter of national sovereignty and rule of law.
Enter legally, or don't enter at all.
These "illegals" don't love America, or our way of life. They still cleave to Mexico and want America to become a Mexican colony. That's why the Mexican government supports illegal immigration into the USA.
This is an undercover invasion of our country by non-military personnel with the sole intent of colonization - why can't people see this ?
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It is an overwhelming problem!
I was shocked and disheartened to hear our state was going to Mexico, to hire teachers from Mexico, to teach in our public schools. I think that was the breaking straw for me. The illegals get enough benefits already, it is not fair to the students whom are english speaking US citizens. The school system has already been dumbed down enough to accomodate for these non english speaking students. It puts our children at a disadvantage when it comes to learning. 6th grade in Utah is comparable to 3rd grade in other states.