Deseret News | Separation of church and dance

Reader comments
Separation of church and dance

164 comments | Read story

Much Ado About Nothing | 7:16 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

People say "the mormon influence has been around for a long time"--are they foregetting that Utah was established by Mormons as a haven from the persecution in the East? Of course the influence of the Church will be evident in all aspects of life here.

I don't agree with the negativity and religion bashing. If you live in Utah, you're going to have to learn to live with Mormons--and Utah Mormons need to learn to truly be more tolerant of people who have chosen another religion or lifestyle. This is a free country, so anyone can live here. Let's learn to get along!

Mary's two cents | 7:49 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

This was obviously just a conflict in scheduling but the change affected more than just the LDS audience. I donï¿½t see why a ï¿½specialï¿½ priesthood session or equivalent could not be given at an earlier time or date for the kids at Murray High. We sometimes step our bounds and impact non-members but give very little thought to there concerns and it end up in forums such as this. We have a great deal of work to do with mending fences with our non-member neighbors and it does not involve missionaries or the though of conversion. Just my two centsï¿½

Proud2BeLDS | 7:52 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

to "It Could be Worse", thank you! You expressed my thoughts beautifully! I admire our youth of today that have their priorities straight; kudos to them and their parents for raising them right.

Comments continue below

lars | 8:04 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Move to a Non-MO MO area like Park City and you will not have toput up with it. got tired of ignoring them and moved to sin city

Dear Neighbors | 8:25 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

THANK YOU, fellow Saints, so much for the overwhelming "if you don't like Utah leave it" sentiment.

I am SURE that that is exactly how President Hinckley would put it ............... NOT!

This is pretty much a non-story, due to the fact that ALL of Murray should be ashamed of the state that the Football program is in. I know I am.

But I believe it is just a little weird.
Most schools have a week of enthusiastic activities designed to highlight and encourage their school's athletes to perform to the best of their ability followed by the game on Friday night. Then the culmination of the week, a day of activities followed by a formal dance event.

How novel of Murray High to start their "homecoming" with the "grande finale" followed by a week of activities designed to forget the beating they will take at the Football game.

AND as far as Jefferson we ARE talking about the same man who fathered all of his own slaves. Times change, nobody's perfect.

But for next year, maybe Murray High should plan things a little better so this issue never comes up?

Steve Wilkie | 8:26 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

You know, I am tired of being abused because I choose to live my life with the our lord, Jesus Christ. If these people cannot accept the declarations being handed from mouth of god and that action taken by the brothers and sisters of this high school then I wish them far adieu and let me know when you get to Wyoming. We will be better off without you and will be able to regain what Utah was all about before we had this influx of people who are committed members of the church.

To: Marys Two Cents | 8:31 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

You can't do a "special" Priesthood session for the Murray students seeing as how it is done by the First Presidency of the church. It's not like a fireside. I commend these kids for wanting to do both and having their priorities straight.

Comment from a Catholic | 8:43 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Wow! From top to bottom what a train wreck. From reading each of these posts it would seem to indicate the LDS religion is far from Christian and the opposing side is equally as far from mentally stable.

But what do I know, I am just a good Catholic boy and may be expecting too much from my neighbors on each side of this debate.

BTW, Pope Benedictï¿½s plan is working. Weï¿½ll let you two groups go at it a few more years, totally trash the Utah culture, which is already in the most dysfunctional I have been apart of, then weï¿½ll move in all the Catholics.

Seriously folks this population will continue to become more diverse and you will all have to adjust. For the LDS folks your population will continue to be outpaced by outsiders and you will become the minority in both culture and politics. For those who oppose the LDS folks, minority groups will rise in population and have an influence on the culture you may not agree with. Youï¿½ll both have to be big boys about this and deal or as Iï¿½ve read many times today----MOVE!

Where is all this hatred?? | 8:59 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I keep hearing how we mormons in Utah are so mean and intolerant of Catholics. I have been LDS and lived in Utah my entire 30 years of life and NEVER have I heard of or felt that way toward any religion. I'm sure it exists to an extend but I think some of you are making it bigger than it really is. And especially in this situation...this had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with attendance, inclusion and the all important dollar sign.

Non-Utah LDS | 9:13 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Actually, there are LDS in places like Santa Fe, Texas, who sued the school district over school prayer when the district was taken over by the Baptists and the LDS were ostracized.

That's very similar to how non-LDS are treated in Utah. LDS who live in Utah always claim to never see the problems they cause.

Traditional Christian | 9:17 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

to Where is all this hatred - the hatred the LDS have for us is reinforced every week in your church. Before I went back to my faith of birth, I attended Church faithfully. Few weeks past without someone bashing the Catholics, or the Baptists, or any number of other faiths... with comments like, "The Church is so wonderful because we do X, but the Catholics believe Z and they are wrong!"

I dont get it | 9:21 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

In the article it said several students said they would not be able to attend due to conference. So how many is several? A handful? A few? I doubt it was 500 hundred students who went whining to the principal.

It was most likely 15 students who got this dance postponed.

BJ | 9:21 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Where is all this hatred,

Apparently, you are sheltered and blinded by a pollyanna view. I have seen it, too. LDS think because they are "the one and only true church" that anything they do is fine. That is why they are so inconsiderate of other faiths ("move if you don't like it!"). Consider Conference... everybody laughed when Holland said "we agree that [trinitarian doctrine] is incomprehensible." That was a we-are-superior-to-you, mocking laugh at the religious beliefs of others.

Jennie | 9:26 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

If people donï¿½t like it here they should not move here. I have had two neighbors buy houses on my street and it raised my property taxes to where I canï¿½t afford. All these people do is complain about Utah I donï¿½t say anything but want them to move back to California. My husband thinks life was better before all these people started moving in.

Anonymous | 9:39 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Miked, you are an idiot. Pray to the true god and he will tell you so.

Karl | 10:06 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Hi Im from california, and i love all people and i wish to hear all the opine that i can on all the subjects that i can, i love to listen to people, and one thing i hope i can see from these comments today is this, i would invite my latter day saint friends in utah to hear publicly apologize for without realizing it, in the heat of the moment, inviting their catholic brothers and sisters to leave the "this is the place" state designated by President Young. Shame on you my fellow latter day saints. If you are one who voiced an opinion for catholics to leave th state because "they don't like it" Which most times isn't true, you need to apologize here and point out who you are on your comment, point out what number box if you have to, because this is shameful. I am from california and I am ashamed of many of these so called mormons posting catholic hate comments. To my catholic friends, I can only say i am sorry for what you have read, it in no way represents the churchs teachings or Even all its members. Some missed conference today

B | 10:13 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

There is a war going on where thousands are dying, there are children starving all over the world and all you people can argue about is a stupid dance?? Why not put some of your frustration and anger into good use and go volunteer somewhere. Stop wasting your breath on an issue no one will be thinking about in two weeks!

Karl | 10:13 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Bj that's not true. It is not hatred. People laugh at our beliefs too. So in my opinion are we not allowed to laugh at anyone elses beliefs? Its ok that we find on each side of us are beliefs amusing because you know its true. I hope you understand this in the spirit i tried to give it. I Just want you to know that you can laugh at what i believe anytime. I won't get angry at it, But i will find you even more amusing. I Respect what everybody believes But that doesn't mean i can't poke fun. People do all the time about joseph smith. We all just need to take things with a grain of salt. Smile if you have to, just don't frown, people hate it when you frown.

Dance Dance Dance | 10:17 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

What is this, Footloose? Where is Kevin Bacon when we need him?

Frank | 10:23 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I just got through watching all sessions of Conference and listening to the priesthood session and guess what? I would have preferred a dance! How many times must we listen to the same thing over and over again?

Jazz practice | 10:24 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I think it is wrong that the Jazz coach held a practice today. Didn't he know it was conference? I am sure his players wanted to attend conference and they had to do basketball things. How inconsiderate of Sloan. Get a clue people. Everything needs to stop for conference! Do it now!

Ridiculous. | 10:26 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I have difficulty believing how changing the date of a dance is creating such animosity between neighbors. Being the son of a Jew and a Catholic I grew up with no religion forced on me, and no attendance of religious services. This is mainly as a result of my father's belief that no religion is worth being hated or killed for. After World War II, the only relative found to be alive was a second cousin. The rest were slaughtered.

I found a religion that I believe is of so much worth that I am not afraid to be hated or killed for it. But I tell my wife, who grew up in the LDS faith that I would never want to move to Utah. This just reinforces that attitude.

It was a dance. It is a dance. Why doesn't everybody take the passion that they have on this irrelevant issue and try to do something about the problems we have with our government. For example, Social Security is going to bankrupt this country and is currently bankrupting the younger generation.

Please, do something useful.

Carol | 10:28 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I cannot believe what I am reading !!! I think President Hinckley would be so ashamed of all of my brothers & sisters in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for what is being written here. Conference was so uplifting today & what are you thinking ??? I live in Hawaii but think this is very shameful..There is room for us all to have our individual beliefs w/o bashing each other. What has happened to the GOLDEN RULE ??

Karl | 10:30 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

To B, The only reason i am posting now is because there are people who Do not apparently realize that the religion they seem to espouse teaches that judgment will begin at the lords house. Im basically saying, look, the latterday saints have a responsibility to apologize for telling everyone to move out of utah. Latterday saints, this is supposed to be a day of mercy. You let the lord Decide when it will be a day of wrath. That is not up to us. So calm down your spirit, and realize, you may just be Kicking people from wanting to learn about the church. And for that day of judgment for those with such comments, i fear they will look back at this day and realize they should have listened one of their own, it doesnt take a prophet of the lord to call people to repent. 19 year olds do it everyday. I know what i have said is true, and i hope that some people come forward and realize their mistake, and create an atmosphere where the spirit can dwell. please smile, it does wonders ! (=

Carol | 10:33 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Whatever happened to the Golden Rule ?? I am ashamed by what I am reading..I am LDS & think President Hinckley would be ashamed of all of my LDS brothers & sisters who are writing such negative comments.

Good Idea | 10:40 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Ridiculous, you are a genious! Let's hold a dance to raise money for the social security program! That's the ticket!

It is foolish to be willing to die for a bunch of silly stories (religion).

Will | 10:56 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Carol,

Your position strikes me as naive and silly. People can disagree without it necessarily being "negative". You need thicker skin. The Church is not designed to turn us all into Mr. Rogers!

Anonymous | 10:58 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

carol I am also disgusted by these comments. With you all the way on that one. I am particularly upset with the men. I expected better. I loved seeing so many members of the church at conference, if any of you saw conference who have written hateful things, you too can now get involved in the work and apologize for these ugly comments many of you have made. The principal here isnt the dance though i do sympathize for both sides, The principal is the comments spewing from the mouths of hypocritical latter day saints. Saints, we have the responsibility to repent. Show your love for father in heaven that you know how to love him by apolizing for these damaging comments. I truly hope that you do not really want all these people to move out of utah, because that is hateful indeed and i am ashamed.

BeRob | 11:16 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

Anyone complaining that the University of Utah scheduled their football game for Friday night this week. Amazing since it was not even a home game. Maybe they wanted to be back for conference, or maybe it just was logical to avoid conflicts. Does anyone even know if Murray won the game, or if the students had a good time at the dance? Seems like that is the issue we should be worrying about!!!

Amazing | 11:49 p.m. Oct. 6, 2007

I bet all of you angry people are just mad because you didn't get to go to the dance. Wait, homecoming dance was a big deal in high school... not anymore

solution | 12:46 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

We don't want anyone to move. We just want to convert them.

Anonymous | 1:12 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

Nice going bonehead, you've given up 'solution' to all our social problems.

To Frank | 1:12 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

I guess Frank, as many times as it would take for us to respond to these comments like the Savior taught us by his example. We just have to keep hearing it over and over till we start living the principle.

To Jennie | 1:54 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

"My husband thinks life was better before all these people started moving in." Your quote not mine.

I think that the Native Americans felt the same way when Brigham Young declared that "this is the place"!

Dave | 1:58 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

What a ridiculous story!!! After reading this article it only reaffirms the fact that I am oh so happy not to live in that backward thinking state anymore.

I couldn't agree more with the parents and students who are upset about their homecoming dance being changed due to a mormon conference. Come on people the world does not revolve around mormons. Get a CLUE!!!!

You are Clueless | 4:46 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

You are plain clueless, or willfully ignorant, if you think this is limited to Utah and LDS. I have lived on the east coast (Boston, NY, DC) for the past decade and can't tell you how many times things are scheduled around Catholic or Jewish occasions. Those of you who complain about a school changing/choosing the date of an event to fit the schedule of a majority of people who will attend (who cares what religion!) would be laughed out of the room if you made the same complaints outside Utah. Do you realize how silly you sound to the rest of the country?

Enough | 8:49 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

Why can't you Mormons respect people for who they are AS they are - different from you, and yet just as valuable as human beings. We don't need to be saved or converted or changed into clones. Just let us worship god (or not) in our own way without condemning us and forcing us to adjust our schedules to fit your religious calendars! If you don't like non-Mormons as much as these posts suggest, perhaps you should MOVE to somewhere where you don't have to put up with us - how about the MOON! Didn't Joseph Smith prophecy that the Mormons would all move to the Moon?

Boy, Am I Sorry! | 8:51 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

What a mistake it was for me to comment here yesterday morning as "reality check." Mostly I see reasons why I and others should leave Utah, spews on Catholics and other neighbors, and more "lame" defenses of the actions at MHS that led to this discussion. I'll reiterate, though. It is lame to say if the Catholics and Baptists do similarly and the LDS don't complain, then it justifies that bad behavior here. It does not. And now I wonder--do those Bostonians and Texans demand the LDS among them leave? I wrote that kids at MHS were bothered by this weeks ago (because they were snubbed in the decision process which arose only after the date was originally set. Even if it reached the same conclusion, those kids would have felt better just by being informed and involved, not just given a "deal with it" proposition like most of you folks here, do)---how pitiful that virtually none of you mention kids. I said parents who condone and defend this, only perpetuate the boorishness and selfishness seen all over this site and throughout Utah. What a shining light this is, and during an important conference weekend to boot.

Wow! Again | 11:55 a.m. Oct. 7, 2007

Why have the persecuted become the persecutors? I am LDS. If we as LDS people complain that we had to put up with some supposed offense(Intentioned or not)...We should not give offense because we have been the object of an offense. Turn the other cheek, and do good to those who depitefully use you! Talk of "get out of our state" should not even be part of our vocabulary. To non-members, not all LDS people approve of the posts requesting that you leave. We don't have to agree to be good neighbors. I ask you to stay!

To Wow! Again | 1:57 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

Thank you. I, as a Catholic, would like to hold out an olive branch to my new LDS friend Wow! Again. If I am respected for who I am I am more than happy to respect you. My neighbors in Seattle happened to be LDS. We had a great relationship. We got together on many occasions. The only time religion was mentioned was when I either asked them a respectful question or they ask a question of us. While we all love and live by our religion, it is important that we respect each other. After all we are worshiping the same God only in different way. This is not unlike what is going on in Iraq. Three different Mulsim groups that despise each others way of worshiping the same God that they're willing to kill over it. I don't believe that anyone here is going to kill over this topic but it isn't much better how we are treating each other. I'm sure Jesus would be turning over tables at our temples if he were with us today.

CONGRESS shall make no law | 2:18 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

For those who keep screaming "church and state", may I quote: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." What on earth does this have to do with whether a high school schedules a dance at a time when the students thereof will be most able to attend?

Wow ! Again | 4:23 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

To my Catholic friend...What a better world it would be if this could be duplicated everywhere. Now that's more like it! See everyone we can get along. If we at least try to be friendly miraculous things can happen. We don't have to hate someone just because they have a different faith. Let's all just try to be a lot slower to anger(In fact don't get angry at all! Talk it out!), and both sides try to accommodate, understand each other(If you can't come to a consensus at least don't be uncaring about the other sides feelings.), and then we'll all be friends. That wouldn't be so bad would it.
No more LDS people giving offense to Catholics, Baptists, etc., and vice a versa.

To Wow! Again | 4:52 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

Thanks again.
Does this mean I don't have to leave? (just a little humor to lighten things up).
I fully agree we can live together and show tolerance a probably very good friendship while having different beliefs. It happened everywhere else I've lived.

Your Catholic Friend.

Ramona | 4:56 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

I is no wonder that non-mormons have a shorter than national average life expectancy if they live in Utah.

karen | 7:12 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

I don't think it is fair that Ms. Smart was the target of the majority of these comments. She was not the one writing the article, she just stated her opinion.

Ed Smith | 8:57 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

It disappointing that on a day when many of us have sat at the feet of those we consider and sustain as prophets, and have heard them preach of peace and forgiveness and "love thy neighbor" charity, that such invective spews forth in this forum. Civil accomodation ought to be a fact of life without respect to group affiliation, but all I read here is mud slinging and back biting. Those of us who read and believe the Bible and Book of Mormon would do well to re-read the teachings on "motes and beams". If you want respect and accomodation, you must be willing to offer the same. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth only leaves us blind and hungry. Think about it.

wondering | 9:18 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

I wonder how ms. smart's kids feel about her hissy fit. if they're like most teens they're probably embarassed and want to hide. i wonder how she'll feel in the future when this ridiculous thing dies down but her kids will always remember her over reacting. too bad parents need to pick their battles and this doesn't qualify in any way shape or form. it's a high school dance not some horrible crime being committed against her kids. i doubt the hs leaders conspired to make all the non lds kids upset. it's a good experience to let kids learn to move to plan b. that's a major part of adult life. things don't always happen the way you initially plan for.

ediddy | 9:17 p.m. Oct. 7, 2007

Those who would hurl stones at the LDS will always find a reason to do so. It would be a good deal less opportune if we as LDS didn't so often provide a ready target. Joseph Smith once chastised his brethren for wanting to kill an offending rattle snake, noting that if they were ever to find peace in this world, they needed to eliminate the constant desire to retaliate (not an exact quote), but the message is on point. Take a read at what you've posted here.

Anonymous | 10:32 a.m. Oct. 8, 2007

Some interesting and emotional banter. I know some was said just to introduce a colorful and dynamic conversation but I'm not sure we ever got there. Don't take this all to seriously as it looks some comments we're in jest to invoke a meaningful debate. This is good that we can recognize issues that divide on forums such as this and this will help us become closer as a community through the understanding of each other.

Karl | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 8, 2007

I just want people to know that i love to bloom where i am currently planted in california. I love living among people even whose opinions are vastly different from mine. I want all the non LDS to know i love them and that I am grateful that at least one catholic noticed a good latter day saint (wow again) Im still looking for people to rise up and express guilt and humiliation for much of what i read. Their are no excuses. I repeat, judgment will begin at our house, and i hope by then, you have at leased tried to apologize on this forum, theres no excuse for hate from the latter day saints. The word should not even be close to synonym, yet many of you these past two days made it that way. I know im sorry. Who else is?

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.