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Most Salt Lakers want to loosen liquor laws; so do 2 candidates
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CH | 10:47 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
To NH:
With respect to drinking laws, yes, I want us to be like other cities.. So you are saying by loosening the drinking laws, we will somehow lose our identity?
The laws are being set by religious beliefs.
With respect to drinking laws, yes, I want us to be like other cities.. So you are saying by loosening the drinking laws, we will somehow lose our identity?
The laws are being set by religious beliefs.
Dave | 10:55 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Well said JQ. I don't think I could have said it any better myself.
I'm also from Salt Lake but live in Colorado and am always defending the
state from misconceptions. After reading some of these very narrow minded
postings and the related article maybe I'm the one with misconceptions
about the state.
Say hello to the 21st century Utah and come out of the dark ages. People who enjoy alcohol in moderation are not bad people contrary to what some or most of you non drinkers believe. Get a CLUE!!!
Say hello to the 21st century Utah and come out of the dark ages. People who enjoy alcohol in moderation are not bad people contrary to what some or most of you non drinkers believe. Get a CLUE!!!
Comments continue below
Boozer | 11:02 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Mormons don't need alcohol. They use anti-depressants instead. They like
to be "peculiar" and they're succeeding. Utah...Hightest per
capita usage of anti-depressants in the entire U.S.A. Many here will dispute
this statement...provide PROOF...because I can provide the proof of my statement
if you'd like.
Sacto | 11:10 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I spent my growing up in SLC, Utah as a non-LDS. In my adult life, I have lived
in Colorado and now reside in California. Utah is beautiful place with a lot of
great outdoor opportunities (skiing, mountain biking, fishing, and hunting).
However, some of the locals in Utah need to loosen up and stop being so
judgmental and hypocritical. If a responsible adult would like to drink within
moderation with out getting drunk, that is their business. There is an old
saying in Utah �Whenever you go fishing you should take two
Mormons with you, because if you take one Mormon with you he will drink all of
your beer�.
no evil | 11:18 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
When you compromise with evil, evil always wins. Alcohol is evil.
avazd | 11:38 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I'm not a big drinker, and frankly don't care for people who are. That
said, Utah is one of the fifty United States, and as such it's laws should
only be passed by civil institutions, not religious ones.
Re: Stevan | 11:43 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
So you are looking to "bridge the divide" between Mormons and
Gentiles, are you? Let me guess, that would entail Mormons lowering their
standards so Gentiles don't have to feel so bad about themselves when they
have a drink?
If only we could go back to the times when non-Mormons were so tolerant of our religion and way of life. You know, like in Kirtland...no, that's not it. Oh, I know! Jackson County Missouri...nope, not there either. Oh, uh, Nauvoo! No, not there. Oh wait, there has NEVER been a time in history when non-Mormons have been tolerant to the church...
And now that there is a non-Mormon majority in SLC, the games begin again. That's all fine, but don't try to mask reducing the church's influence with the lame "bridging the divide" argument. Lame.
If only we could go back to the times when non-Mormons were so tolerant of our religion and way of life. You know, like in Kirtland...no, that's not it. Oh, I know! Jackson County Missouri...nope, not there either. Oh, uh, Nauvoo! No, not there. Oh wait, there has NEVER been a time in history when non-Mormons have been tolerant to the church...
And now that there is a non-Mormon majority in SLC, the games begin again. That's all fine, but don't try to mask reducing the church's influence with the lame "bridging the divide" argument. Lame.
Tia | 11:47 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Actually, alcohol is not evil. Even ol' Joseph Smith, God, or Jesus never
said it was. Jesus even drank wine in the bible, look it up. Trust me, it
wasn't non-alcoholic.
The Word of Wisdom gives direction on how to live healthy lives, it does not say coffee and tea and liquor and tobacco are all evil.
Alcohol in moderation was talked about in old works, and Joe took it a step further.
The Word of Wisdom gives direction on how to live healthy lives, it does not say coffee and tea and liquor and tobacco are all evil.
Alcohol in moderation was talked about in old works, and Joe took it a step further.
cb | 11:50 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I've got a solution to keep Utah safe and beautiful...everyone could move
out! Nobody would be getting drunk and no differences of religion would spark
any conflict!
A density of bars would reduce drunk driving. Bars would be able to be located in areas near Trax stations, reducing it even further.
Conflict is always going to be there. People do stupid and inconsiderate things. We can reduce the problems though. Locating bars nearer one another can do very little wrong, but can add significant nightlife to a few areas in the city while reducing drunk driving.
I hope when you read this it sounds as stupid and ignorant as some of the previous statements written from the opposite perspective - Salt Lake is home to many people different people, not just LDS people. If LDS people have a problem with that then they can just go somewhere else.
A density of bars would reduce drunk driving. Bars would be able to be located in areas near Trax stations, reducing it even further.
Conflict is always going to be there. People do stupid and inconsiderate things. We can reduce the problems though. Locating bars nearer one another can do very little wrong, but can add significant nightlife to a few areas in the city while reducing drunk driving.
I hope when you read this it sounds as stupid and ignorant as some of the previous statements written from the opposite perspective - Salt Lake is home to many people different people, not just LDS people. If LDS people have a problem with that then they can just go somewhere else.
cb | 11:54 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
stevan, you're so picked on. The church doesn't own salt lake city.
And your religion being persecuted is not a unique historical situation.
Re: Re: Stevan | 11:56 a.m. Oct. 4, 2007
As one of your despised "Gentiles" here, let me state unequivically,
and for the record, I have never once felt bad about myself for having a drink,
a beer or a glass of wine. Nor have anyone I know.
Tia | 12:02 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Too funny, Re: Stevan, too funny.
"Gentiles" are not asking Mormons to lower their standards. Do you see them saying you should have to drink? Non-mormons are asking that they be allowed a little more freedom to do what is LEGAL, and allowed in most other states.
I love how the MMM isn't supposed to be brought up since it's in the church's past, along with polygamy, but you bring those times up and expect modern-day people to care?
If you want "gentiles" as you call them to be tolerant of your religion and ideals, it must be a 2-way street. Utah, especially SLC, is not Mormon, they are NOT the majority anymore. Learn to live together.
"Gentiles" are not asking Mormons to lower their standards. Do you see them saying you should have to drink? Non-mormons are asking that they be allowed a little more freedom to do what is LEGAL, and allowed in most other states.
I love how the MMM isn't supposed to be brought up since it's in the church's past, along with polygamy, but you bring those times up and expect modern-day people to care?
If you want "gentiles" as you call them to be tolerant of your religion and ideals, it must be a 2-way street. Utah, especially SLC, is not Mormon, they are NOT the majority anymore. Learn to live together.
JJ | 12:02 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I was born in Utah and have lived here my entire life. My family has been here
since 1847. Don't tell me that I have to move to Las Vegas if I want to be
treated as an adult.
PhxCop | 12:10 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Street scene and atmosphere?? I am a Phoenix Police Officer and let me tell you
what a liberal liquor law will do for you. It causes nothing but problems. You
aren't gonna get a warm happy party atmosphere. Try more DUI's, more
bar fights, more drunken lewd behavior. Definitely not a family atmosphere.
Take pride in the fact your city is unique. Salt Lake City has always had a
wonderful sense of community and you have managed to accomplish that without the
aid of liberal liquor laws. People move and live in Utah for it's family
atmosphere. And as was noted in an earlier post there are other beautiful
states in the mountain west that have all that Utah has to offer (with regards
to the outdoors). If you can't appreciate the conservative, LDS influence
try moving somewhere else.
John | 12:10 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
To Bob H: You wrote: Make them miserable so that type of a person won't want to stay here and we can live a safer life because of it.
I am willing to bet that you have never had a drop of alcohol in your life. You (you and whoever your friends are: because you would never associate with "that type of person") have no right to judge those who decide to drink responsibly. I am willing to bet that many of the people who are judgmental of those who drink alcohol have a) never had a drink before and b) have never lived outside of Utah or Idaho.
As someone who just moved here from New Hampshire--one of the most quaint and beautiful states--I am appalled by the elitist attitude of people like you, Bob H. I bet you didn't know that NH consumes the most alcohol per capita in the US and that it also has one of the lowest crime rates over HALF of your beloved Utah in property crime. Do a search for per capita alcohol consumption and per capita crime rate in google�you can�t put urls in here.
John | 12:11 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
A lot of people (I think all of them are LDS) have posted crap on here about how
alcohol is the devil and will lead to the demise of this city. Lets see some
proof. Google is easy to use.
You need to travel to other cities, or even live there, and realize that having 20 bars in a square mile area LEADS TO A VIBRANT DOWNTOWN SCENE! Go to Burlington VT and check out their downtown scene. Go to Portland ME. I feel much safer walking the streets there then I do here.
You need to travel to other cities, or even live there, and realize that having 20 bars in a square mile area LEADS TO A VIBRANT DOWNTOWN SCENE! Go to Burlington VT and check out their downtown scene. Go to Portland ME. I feel much safer walking the streets there then I do here.
John | 12:12 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
As for the post claiming that you don�t need alcohol to have a good time: you�re right. You don�t need alcohol if you want to go dancing, or sit around and talk with friends with a nice virgin daiquiri in front of you. A vibrant downtown usually is involved with a) things to do, b) places to go, and c) a younger crowd. As far as I can tell, not many young people are going to go to the Zoo (which isn�t downtown) or the museum (how much does that cost) or the opera (not many young peoples cup of tea). They will probably go to a bar though (unless they are mormons). If you don�t like it, move to Bountiful or Toelle�But I�m going to guess you don�t live in Salt Lake City proper anyways unless you live in the mansions above the avenues.
Sauced | 12:12 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I just want to be able to get my drink my drink on. I don't care if I need
to pay cover charge posing as a private membership fee.
As far as people from out of town thinking our laws are strange goes, I don't care, at least it gives me somthing to talk to them about.
Bars are all about small talk, and strange laws make for great small talk. For example did you know a Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man while riding in an ambulance? In addition to normal charges, the woman's name will be published in the local newspaper.The man does not receive any punishment. And you thought drunk driving was dangerous?
As far as people from out of town thinking our laws are strange goes, I don't care, at least it gives me somthing to talk to them about.
Bars are all about small talk, and strange laws make for great small talk. For example did you know a Tremonton, Utah law states that no woman is allowed to have sex with a man while riding in an ambulance? In addition to normal charges, the woman's name will be published in the local newspaper.The man does not receive any punishment. And you thought drunk driving was dangerous?
What in the world??? | 12:18 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Ya, what we need is more drunks more marital problems, more DUI's, more
innocent people killed by drunk drivers, more violent crimes, more gangs. Lets
just make liquor more available. This will solve all of societies problems and
we all will be happier.
Sean | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Guess what, kids. The demographic of this state are changing at an exponential
pace. It's simply too nice a place to live and it attracts swarms of
gentiles and blessed alike. The idea of "majority rules" and "if
you don't like it, then leave" will soon turn around and bite you.
It's not a matter of if but when.
The whole point of democracy is not simply "majority rules", but the jealous and vigorous protection of the MINORITY. I am genuineley disappointed at the reaction in this forum of the "majority". Kudos to those of you who recognise that it is Satan's plan to force morality upon the masses.
Oh, and go read the part of the Constitution called the 19th Amendment. Prohibition does not work, even "soft prohibition". What we currently have in this state is a communistic public takeover of an entire industry. We rightfully call Hugo Chavez a tyrant for doing the same.
The whole point of democracy is not simply "majority rules", but the jealous and vigorous protection of the MINORITY. I am genuineley disappointed at the reaction in this forum of the "majority". Kudos to those of you who recognise that it is Satan's plan to force morality upon the masses.
Oh, and go read the part of the Constitution called the 19th Amendment. Prohibition does not work, even "soft prohibition". What we currently have in this state is a communistic public takeover of an entire industry. We rightfully call Hugo Chavez a tyrant for doing the same.
Texas Ute | 12:34 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Lived in SLC for 5 years. Same LDS hypocrites as I'm reading now. If you
don't like it leave. Brillant deduction. Personally I wish all those
Mormons that left Utah trying to influence the world would go back and stay.
Texas has the same religious zealot, cultists as Utah. Just not as bad because the so-called Gentiles keep them in check. Gambling is the issue here. Drinking is controlled by county. So one can drive drunk coming back from the neighboring county line that sells the Devils brew miles away instead of at the local bar. Brillant.
Texas has the same religious zealot, cultists as Utah. Just not as bad because the so-called Gentiles keep them in check. Gambling is the issue here. Drinking is controlled by county. So one can drive drunk coming back from the neighboring county line that sells the Devils brew miles away instead of at the local bar. Brillant.
Unknowingone | 12:40 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I'm from cali and if this is an issue about money like few have said than
keep in mind that cover charge is $20 verses $4, not to mention if you
can't afford the averge $20 for a one year members to your favorite spot
then drink at home.
Sean | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I bow down before thee!!
Great post.
Great post.
CM | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
To suggest that anyone who doesn't like the absurd liquor laws in the
city should move out, or move to Las Vegas is ridiculous. I was born and raised
in this state and SLC is just as much my city as it is any mormons that live
here (LDS world headquarters or not).
It's really amazing how some mormons (especially those who were raised here and have never been in a bar or club) view those who drink socially. People who drink are not immoral, reckless heathens who will inevitably do bad things and harm others. Nor do people who drink do so only to get drunk. Those who imbibe are normal people who simply want something that resembles a thriving nightlife downtown. And believe it or not our liquor laws do collectively undercut the nightlife here.
If the MAJORITY of SLC residents want fair alcohol laws and even the eventual mayor wants that then no lawmaker from outside of SLC should have the means to stop it.
It's really amazing how some mormons (especially those who were raised here and have never been in a bar or club) view those who drink socially. People who drink are not immoral, reckless heathens who will inevitably do bad things and harm others. Nor do people who drink do so only to get drunk. Those who imbibe are normal people who simply want something that resembles a thriving nightlife downtown. And believe it or not our liquor laws do collectively undercut the nightlife here.
If the MAJORITY of SLC residents want fair alcohol laws and even the eventual mayor wants that then no lawmaker from outside of SLC should have the means to stop it.
RE:Sacto | 1:06 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
"There is an old saying in Utah �Whenever you go
fishing you should take two Mormons with you, because if you take one Mormon
with you he will drink all of your beer�."
HA-HA LOL that is the funniest quote I have ever read...I seriously think that deserves the quote of the year award...Very Nice Sacto...very nice!
HA-HA LOL that is the funniest quote I have ever read...I seriously think that deserves the quote of the year award...Very Nice Sacto...very nice!
Ken Baguley | 1:15 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Two cities I worked for in California wanted to tighten liquor laws because of
complaints from citizens about drinking in public. They now both have such laws
prohibiting drinking in public. When this was allowed in SLC during the Olympics
we had a little riot downtown which included throwing of those cans and bottles.
I deduced that the reason UCLA lost their game to U of U is due to too many
bars in SLC. Could that have been a factor? Not that I care they lost.
Praises to U of U.
Let's be honest | 1:15 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I know soooo many "faithful" LDS people who love to tip back good
ole' Jacky D...remember, those who are quickest to stand up and rant, rave,
and scream about this are usually the ones who have partaken of the sweet
nectar. Some of my best friends are LDS "faithful" and they love to
party! Trust me...
Burn (Bouncer) | 1:16 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Utah needs to relax. It is a wonderful place to live... Thats why were here.
Just because someone goes to a bar or dance club does not make them a bad
person. Just because someone chooses to drink alchohol doesnt make them beat
there children. Wake up and get real people. Make it easier for the clubs to
get their visitors inside so they can have a good time. Im sick of long lines
freezing my butt off outide. Im sure the patrons are too. Turn the heat up on
Utahs Hospitality... Life is short have fun... I love going to church with a
hangover... Its called Free Agency. Look it up in the scriptures. Shoot me a
myspace friends request while your at it.
Burn-
Burn-
jackhp | 1:26 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Dan Jones posed a biased question by mentioning that Rocky Anderson is in favor
of more progressive liquor laws.
I wonder what the favorable percentage would have been if the question had mentioned that both Ralph Becker AND Dave Buhler favor more progressive laws that would allow more bars per block and make it easier for tourists to "get a drink" in SLC. Probably another 5-10% in the "favor" column would be my guess.
I wonder what the favorable percentage would have been if the question had mentioned that both Ralph Becker AND Dave Buhler favor more progressive laws that would allow more bars per block and make it easier for tourists to "get a drink" in SLC. Probably another 5-10% in the "favor" column would be my guess.
Amen Sean And CM | 1:40 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I can't believe all the "everyone who drinks is an immoral criminal
who's going to get in the car and kill people" mentality in so many of
these posts. To say SLC will become another Las Vegas is laughably absurd.
Believe me, I am a multi-generation Salt Lake native, and I've never known
anyone here who believes that or wants it. Salt Lake's downtown could,
however, become more like say, San Diego's downtown: safe, clean, vibrant,
economically successful-and fun. Why do so many here deal in such extremes???
Anonymous | 1:43 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
News flash! The people that chose to move to Utah do so primarily for the
outdoor recreational possibilities, not for the 'wholesome' Utah
lifestyle. The local flavor (bland) is more of a detriment to the economic
success of this area than anything else.
RC | 1:50 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Ahh, the old LDS vs. Non-LDS debate over loosening the ol' liqour laws.
Almost as if I never left! I spent a vast majority of my life in Utah and have
lived away from there for the past 6 years while serving in the military. There
is no reason for me to believe that these backward laws will ever change. It is
for these reasons that I would never relocate my family back to Utah nor
recommend Utah to anyone. My friends have served their country, and lead
moral/religious lives while raising good families who partake in social drinking
from time to time. Thanks to these draconian Utah laws, I'm saving them
from being shunned from Utah society.
Allure of Drinking | 1:52 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Is part of the "allure" to some people to buy and drink alcohol just
in the fact that it's a little risque?
I heard a study that stated that young people sometimes just want to buy liquor to make a statement. In some other countries the allure isn't as much there because it's used for special occasions and dinners (of course not exclusively), but still I don't think it's as much of an issue. If the example was there for alcohol to be used sparingly (for cooking or special occasions) I would guess it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Prohibition was an example of going too far with alchol control and didn't work at all. Possibly, we're going too close to that.
I heard a study that stated that young people sometimes just want to buy liquor to make a statement. In some other countries the allure isn't as much there because it's used for special occasions and dinners (of course not exclusively), but still I don't think it's as much of an issue. If the example was there for alcohol to be used sparingly (for cooking or special occasions) I would guess it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Prohibition was an example of going too far with alchol control and didn't work at all. Possibly, we're going too close to that.
Do it for others | 1:53 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Quite honestly I'd like to see Prohibition back.
Which by the way banned the production of alcohol not the consumption.
Seriously yes many people can drink and do so responsibly. That having been said many people DO NOT drink responsibily. I am of the opinion that if you never open the door then there's no chance of coming in. Likewise if you don't drink there is a zero chance that you will do something foolish.
Drinking should be banned for the weakest of the weak of them that can be called Citizens of the US. Or in other words, just because you can drink responsibly how about you stop drinking and support a ban of drinking to help those that CAN NOT , WILL NOT and DO NOT drink responsibly.
Is it too much to ask yall to give up something that hurts you and has the potential to make you hurt others physically,emotionally etc?
I don't think so.
That having been said- I am very saddened that Buhler would want to loosen Liquor laws.
Which by the way banned the production of alcohol not the consumption.
Seriously yes many people can drink and do so responsibly. That having been said many people DO NOT drink responsibily. I am of the opinion that if you never open the door then there's no chance of coming in. Likewise if you don't drink there is a zero chance that you will do something foolish.
Drinking should be banned for the weakest of the weak of them that can be called Citizens of the US. Or in other words, just because you can drink responsibly how about you stop drinking and support a ban of drinking to help those that CAN NOT , WILL NOT and DO NOT drink responsibly.
Is it too much to ask yall to give up something that hurts you and has the potential to make you hurt others physically,emotionally etc?
I don't think so.
That having been said- I am very saddened that Buhler would want to loosen Liquor laws.
Tia | 2:22 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
"Is it too much to ask yall to give up something that hurts you and has the
potential to make you hurt others physically,emotionally etc?"
It doesn't hurt me. And it will only make me hurt others if I give my own power and control over to it, just like prescription drugs can do to a person.
Listen, no, I will not support such a ban because, once again, prohibition would happen (and probably this time be much worse), and you can't control the morons out there who screw this type of stuff up. Great, take away their booze, but there are plenty of other things they can take, are you going to outlaw those? Painkillers, antidepressants, even MOUTHWASH? The problem is with the individual.
Plus having a nice cold beer or glass of wine after a bad day at work or with some old friends is a great part of my life. I refuse to let you take it away from me. Want me to take away your hot cocoa and jello salads?
It doesn't hurt me. And it will only make me hurt others if I give my own power and control over to it, just like prescription drugs can do to a person.
Listen, no, I will not support such a ban because, once again, prohibition would happen (and probably this time be much worse), and you can't control the morons out there who screw this type of stuff up. Great, take away their booze, but there are plenty of other things they can take, are you going to outlaw those? Painkillers, antidepressants, even MOUTHWASH? The problem is with the individual.
Plus having a nice cold beer or glass of wine after a bad day at work or with some old friends is a great part of my life. I refuse to let you take it away from me. Want me to take away your hot cocoa and jello salads?
mb | 2:29 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I am sad to keep being reminded of so many people who will not investigate the
real character of the LDS people. It is much easier for them to accept the old
lies, assumtions and hear-says about the Mormons. W
Loosen alcohol laws... | 2:30 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
raise crime, DUI's, adolescent drinking, divorce, poverty, traffic
fatalities, health care costs, date rape, time off at work, alcoholism,
death...is everyone to drunk to see this?
There is no redeeming benefit to drinking, none.
If you need booze to bolster you personality and increase your "fun", you need a new personality, not more booze.
There is no redeeming benefit to drinking, none.
If you need booze to bolster you personality and increase your "fun", you need a new personality, not more booze.
amb | 2:39 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Mr. Bernick: How do you figure that 226 people out of 403 constitutes the
majority of SLC people 'who want the liquer law changed'? What is the
exact population number in SLC? Where was the poll done, and of what area or
personalities?
utahkeith | 2:58 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Stealing a quote from "Re: Steven (11:43 Oct 4th) "there has NEVER
been a time in history when non-Mormons have been tolerant to the
church..." My opinion is this, I moved here because I love the Church and
the area, Others moved here because they loved the area and it is "Family
Oriented" If you don't like the Liquor Laws" do those who have
roots here a favor: MOVE!!! I can here to get away from people like you,
"We" (Mormons) have always been accepting of all, and always will
(SHOULD) be! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE LAWS MOVE TO A STATE THAT IS ALCOHOL
FRIENDLY, We would be more than happy to see you drunk and happy there, while we
are sober, happy and SAFER HERE! My Opinion is that Drinking Laws are NOT tough
enough, nor are the liquor taxes high enough! DUI should be .0001 and fines
should be tripled! Alcohol has riled men, invoked murder and abuse, divided
families. The only good thing it has done is clean cuts, kill germs, good
heating fuel, and burns cleaner in gasoline engines! Leave the laws ALONE!
Re Do it for Others | 3:02 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
You've got to be kidding me? Prohibition back? Banning for the
"weakest of the weak of them" (lol!). Prohibition prohibited the
Manufacture, Transportation and SALE of alcoholic beverages. How old are you?
TS2 | 3:09 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Goodness people. People in support of loosening the liquor laws aren't
trying to make this city Las Vegas. Just trying to create a more user-friendly
night life for the citizens and visitors.
Ang | 3:33 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
From what pool of people interviewed did these statistics come from? Teenagers?
Dysfunctional singles? Bar-hoppers? Alcoholic husbands? It just doesn't
seem well-represented.
Anonymous | 3:37 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Vote for either candidate because it DOES NOT MATTER! you will NEVER get a bill
like this past the Utah legislature.
But maybe we can reach a compromise. If the Mormons want to restrict our right to "evil" alcohol, maybe we can restrict their right to evil overpopulation.
But seriously- not even the Mormon Jesus believes in forcing people to obay the Word of Wisdom. It is simply a recomendation if you were to ever read it and think for yourself.
Salt Lake NEEDS an entertainment district to support the conventioneering business, which puts money/tithing in a lot of Mormon pockets. The currant laws are hampering the development of our city. Most of you clones live in the suburbs where this is of no concearn anyway.
But maybe we can reach a compromise. If the Mormons want to restrict our right to "evil" alcohol, maybe we can restrict their right to evil overpopulation.
But seriously- not even the Mormon Jesus believes in forcing people to obay the Word of Wisdom. It is simply a recomendation if you were to ever read it and think for yourself.
Salt Lake NEEDS an entertainment district to support the conventioneering business, which puts money/tithing in a lot of Mormon pockets. The currant laws are hampering the development of our city. Most of you clones live in the suburbs where this is of no concearn anyway.
tf | 3:41 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
For Justin and the rest of those that think Utah is so different when it comes
to our alchohol laws haven't lived anywhere else. Try New Jersey where you
have to go the the connecting liquor store to buy your drinks for dinner. How
about the south where there are still blue counties that don't sell
alcohol at all. As my Grandmother that was not LDS used to say, no one is
forcing you to
stay here. Why should we worry about what the "rest" of the world or country thinks. Frankly, we have lots of non-LDS friends from outside this country and state visit here and they all have said that they wish their home state or country was more like Utah.
stay here. Why should we worry about what the "rest" of the world or country thinks. Frankly, we have lots of non-LDS friends from outside this country and state visit here and they all have said that they wish their home state or country was more like Utah.
Tia | 3:51 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
This whole "MOVE AWAY!!!" thing is completely ludicrous and without
merit.
Did ANY of you consider what I said before, about Non-mo's leaving Utah? LDS is no longer the majority and if even half of the residents of Utah left you'd be in SUCH a recession.
Many moving in recently aren't LDS because more and more companies are building offices out here and transferring workers in. This is part of your current "thriving" economy.
It doesn't matter if YOU moved here to get away from "it all," everyone has the right to move to and live wherever they want, just like you do.
If YOU don't like it, and you're all for people having to leave somewhere if they don't like it, why don't YOU move? =)
Did ANY of you consider what I said before, about Non-mo's leaving Utah? LDS is no longer the majority and if even half of the residents of Utah left you'd be in SUCH a recession.
Many moving in recently aren't LDS because more and more companies are building offices out here and transferring workers in. This is part of your current "thriving" economy.
It doesn't matter if YOU moved here to get away from "it all," everyone has the right to move to and live wherever they want, just like you do.
If YOU don't like it, and you're all for people having to leave somewhere if they don't like it, why don't YOU move? =)
Oh really? | 3:54 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
We are supposed to the United States of America. I don't like to see us
being divided. The facts everywhere are this:
Some people are going to drink. It's fine if others don't like it. But because some people will drink we need to make laws that work the best for that situation.
Prohibition didn't work and there's no indication that it would work again. People can wish it would work, but that probably will not change.
People will not leave the state of Utah simply so they can have more rights in other states. Maybe a few will, but mostly you will have to live with people who have as many rights as you.
Time will tell if the laws in Utah are more effective at cutting down drinking abuse. As I understand it now, it has not.
Some people are going to drink. It's fine if others don't like it. But because some people will drink we need to make laws that work the best for that situation.
Prohibition didn't work and there's no indication that it would work again. People can wish it would work, but that probably will not change.
People will not leave the state of Utah simply so they can have more rights in other states. Maybe a few will, but mostly you will have to live with people who have as many rights as you.
Time will tell if the laws in Utah are more effective at cutting down drinking abuse. As I understand it now, it has not.
J_Houston | 3:57 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
I am shocked and saddened to see fellow LDS members so willing to expel good
people from Utah just because they don't choose to follow the Word of
Wisdom. Jesus consistently taught principles of patience, tolerance and
acceptance to all mankind. Modern day application if His teachings would
necessitate turning the other cheek and permitting others to exercise tolerance
and forgiveness of others that you feel may be making unwise decisions.
Ultimatums and invitations to leave the state have no part in a Christian-based
community. Further, LDS members should re-read the Word of Wisdom. The
admonition to refrain from alcohol is presented in the form of a promise. If you
abstain from the use of alcohol, you will be blessed with a healthy body and
mind, as well as other spiritual blessings. Nowhere in the Word of Wisdom does
it state that failure to follow the rule should result in mass shunning or
expulsion from the LDS community. At most, failure to follow the WoW results in
forfeiting blessings a person may not want or need. LDS members should welcome
the opportunity to live in diverse communities where they can befriend and
welcome people of all faiths and beliefs.
hiUtahKeith | 4:01 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
"Steven (11:43 Oct 4th) "there has NEVER been a time in history when
non-Mormons have been tolerant to the church"
Has the church ever had a time in their history of being tolerant? I would submit, that tolerance is not in their teachings.
There is nothing more dividing in Utah than the church. The believers group together and quake at the "imbibers" of alcohol worrying that they will destroy their values. The non-believers worry about if their children will be made fun of because they were not in primary.
Let me ask another question. So if we members are so worried about people who want to drink moving to Vegas, why do we always assign "friendshippers" and missionaries to go over to the homes of the people we want to move to Vegas?
I hope you can share your testimony about this stuff in the next meeting utahkeith. I think your strong testimony of the gospel and that people who drink should move to Vegas will really bring your ward members together. Uplifting them with every fiber of your being.
Not all non-mormons are evil... try making some new friends.
Has the church ever had a time in their history of being tolerant? I would submit, that tolerance is not in their teachings.
There is nothing more dividing in Utah than the church. The believers group together and quake at the "imbibers" of alcohol worrying that they will destroy their values. The non-believers worry about if their children will be made fun of because they were not in primary.
Let me ask another question. So if we members are so worried about people who want to drink moving to Vegas, why do we always assign "friendshippers" and missionaries to go over to the homes of the people we want to move to Vegas?
I hope you can share your testimony about this stuff in the next meeting utahkeith. I think your strong testimony of the gospel and that people who drink should move to Vegas will really bring your ward members together. Uplifting them with every fiber of your being.
Not all non-mormons are evil... try making some new friends.
Take it ALL | 4:02 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007
Yes take away all my Green Jello and my Hot Cocoa if ther are proven to be
addicitve and cause many people to make poor choices that infringe on the rights
of others.
The request above to do it for others is not outrageous. I think it very socially selfish to want to continue in a "habit" that damages your brain and liver among other things and is proven to cause you to have a higher chance of making stupid decisions that may affect others.
Drinking is a self destructive action in slow motion. Some people speed it up by drinking more however. Do your health and wallet a big favor and switch over to water.
The request above to do it for others is not outrageous. I think it very socially selfish to want to continue in a "habit" that damages your brain and liver among other things and is proven to cause you to have a higher chance of making stupid decisions that may affect others.
Drinking is a self destructive action in slow motion. Some people speed it up by drinking more however. Do your health and wallet a big favor and switch over to water.
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Laws are not set in stone, and if people who belong to a community wish to change them, it can happen. Whether or not you like it, non-mormons are moving into Utah, they are part of your economy (especially right now) and if they were to leave the state Utah would be in more trouble than it already is. These laws would not make more people want to drink, people already do! And most drinkers are moderate and can have just a few drinks and be fine. It's laughable that you say that alcohol and drugs are the root to all evil, especially when spousal abuse and depression are EXTREMELY high in Utah...and most are LDS....