Deseret News | Don't count votes, west-siders urge

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Don't count votes, west-siders urge

Mom | 7:51 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

As an east side resident, I've always thought this proposal was heavily in our favor. I have 5 kids and love the idea of my rich neighbor's money going to my kids, but have never understood how it is fair to all the west side kids. How are they going to fund their schools? How can we in good conscience do this? Maybe a no count is a good solution until things get worked out a bit more.

I agree | 8:09 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I completely agree. I too am an east-side resident living in Draper and think the entire District division is immoral and unfair. I am glad that at least one west-side city is trying to stop the vote. My worry is for ALL kids, regardless of what side of the river they live on. I've always been very happy with Jordan School District and think people just don't understand why anyone would want something different.

Whay??? | 8:11 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Fairness?? Are you kidding me? The East side pays far more than it's fair share, always has, and will continue to pay for West side schools even with a split. At no point in history has the West side been a net positive contributor to the East side schools. Fairness? Good conscious? Give me a break!

Comments continue below

dtm | 8:20 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

The west side industries (Kennecot), built Brighton, Hillcrest,Alta and all the feeder schools long before there was any tax base on the east side. Copperhills and Riverton have only been around for the last 10 years, and now the east side don't want to build any more schools. I live on the east side and this is about the Mayors' egos. Each city is making a power grab. I have never heard one east side official say that this is in the best interest of the students. I only hear them say it will save their residents $20 a month in taxes. Is that what education suppose to be about?

Tax payer | 8:27 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

You like the idea of your rich neighbors money going to your kids? Have you ever asked them how they like paying for your 5 kids?

Steven Jarvis | 8:33 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I am concerned still whether more schools in declining enrollment areas would be saved by this. What I think would be a better idea to have more local control while keeping the District intact would be a small parent elected board for each feeder system (ie One High School and all middle and elementary schools that feed into it).

These sort of boards do not need to be paid, while a new district administration will. If we do see a split the overall cost of administration is going to be doubled or tripled for the area as each city-district employees the necessary personnel.

Dad | 8:38 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I agree with the article. Let them create a new district and then they can either build their own schools or purchase the schools and other assets that are there, from the Jordan school district. Those buildings, land and every other asset belong to the Jordan School District, not to those cities.

evensteven | 8:47 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Comments about who paid for what need some perspective. Kennecott did not build the east side schools any more than it built Washington County schools. In the late 1970s, Kennecott was taken of JSDs tax rolls and treated just like other large utility landowners such as Utah Power and Mountain Fuel. Their taxes went into a pool that was then divided up.

East and west side facilities have always, from the beginnings of the district, been funded overwhelmingly by east side taxpayers. You have no further to go than the district's own growth summit to see the population growth (and, thereby tax base grwoth) versus school construction. Even today, the east side is expected to pay more than half of the costs for all the construction for the next decade, more than 80% of which will occur on the west side.

And one comment about rich, MOM. The demographics show that the west side is about to eclipse the east side in terms of household income and property values. Your concept of rich is pure personal bias and is not based in fact.

The east side schould chose its destiny. Its only fair.

evensteven | 8:51 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

One more comment about assets. If the east side taxpayers paid for the schools to be built, who really owns them? The Herriman Mayor's comments reveal a lack of honesty about how the district functions as a political subdivision. Given the recent dust up with Bluffdale over the Sorenson property, I would think Mr. Crane would be more sensitive to issues of self determination and the processes involved in changing political boundaries.

Selfishness | 8:56 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

As a community, we all bear the burden of insuring an educated electoral base. To the reader who entitled your comments "Whay??" I ask you, is $20/month too much to pay for the sake of educating our community's children?

You go ahead and answer that while I encourage everyone else to think of something other than their own pocketbook, especially when it comes to something as vitally important as the education of our kids.

J.draper | 9:05 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

No one is addressing what is the best for the student, everyone talks about money. They will lose services. If you are not aware of this, you are ignorant of what opportunities Jordan District provides for its students. Do some research and you'll realize that no new smaller district can provide the same opportunities to its students. I grew up and attended Jordan school district and live on the east side. If you think you can just break off and have the same services you have not researched this issue very much.

Wrong | 9:37 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

To selfishness I say, I want that $20 to help remodel the eastside schools, not build new westside schools, because eastside students need to learn also. You may have fallen into the trap of believing this is just about money, but it is very much about the students and an opportunity to improve their educational experience.

To Jdraper: If you had studied this issue you would know that the services and opportunities currently being offered will remain. While we use the term "smaller", these will still be large districts.

Anonymous | 9:46 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Its not my responsibilty to take care of everyone elses children by paying higher taxes. Do you believe in Socialism? It sure sounds like it. Ive already paid over $20,000 in taxes this year and you are telling me I should pay more. I dont even have any kids.

Mike | 9:55 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I live in Herriman, and though I don't favor the split, I don't think we are very smart on trying to prevent it. Did England vote on the colonists seperating? Did the Union vote on the Conferderates leaving? Why do we have to vote on someone else wanting to leave. Wake up Southwest valley! They are going to split, instead of spending all this money and resources on trying to prevent it. Let's start thinking of the kids and what we can do to help when it happens!

L | 10:03 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I don't live either on the east side or the west side but I find the various comments interesting.

I do agree with the west siders, that since they are currently effected ( and taxed ) by the proposal that they should have a vote.

I also suspect there are certain economies that are a result of the larger district thus some services will be reduced ( or taxes raised ) in order to continue at the same level.

Because I have observed "unhappiness" with "local" school boards in the past, it may not make everyone happy even if the split is completed.

The final analysis should be what is best for the kids.

I have a few words left in response to the question on how the neighbor likes to pay for the 5 kids next door. My observation is that he is better off than he would be if they were "uneducated." Indeed as long as we have not restriction on family size, we will have differences, but I think I do benefit from the education of children which are not mine biologically, that includes income to me as my potiential customers as well as their knowledge.

JLT | 10:10 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

To Whay? I beg to differ. In the early 70's my husband worked as a loan officer on the east side of SL valley. Properties were not re valued for taxes regularly and our home on the west side which was worth $35,000 was taxed for as much and often more than homes homes valued at anywhere from 50-100,000 on the East side. Check the old tax records, if they will let you, and see for yourself.

Anonymous | 10:24 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Think of someone else for a change? You do believe in socialism dont you? Thats the problem. People and cities can take care of themselves. Mike said it perfect. Spend the time and energy on fixing the problem rather than relying on the eastside.People on the West Side can overcome any problems they have to face. You make it sound like the west side is a welfare state who needs the east side to survive. The west side could flourish on their own. And if the split takes place the West Side will overcome the obstacles and wil prevail.

Re: L | 10:29 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Thank you for your wise, calm analysis. You've given me additional fodder for thought.

When I go to the ballot box, I'll be thinking about more than money. I'll be thinking about the kids next door, whether that's 1 house down the road or 100 houses down the road. You are right. It's about all of us, and educated children from both sides of the river will eventually be my customers, employers, and even civic leaders.

Gaston | 10:58 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Jordan School district is too top heavy and it has everything to do with it's size, every issue that has been brought up has to do with the conflict of intrest that such a large district causes.

The growth of the west side is a daunting issue and is getting much attention at the loss of attention to the east side issues.

jDraper | 11:03 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

To wrong, you're wrong. The westside tech center will not be in the eastside district, the eastside will have to contract with it like Murray and Granite does. And if you have a child with any disabilities as I do, you will not be guarenteed access to the westside facilities, and if the eastside is required to facilitate my child under the ADA and build facilities to accomodate her...there goes your $20 a month tax break. And by the way, Utah has one of the best funding programs in the nation. It equalizes funds throughout the state. My concern is for every student in the state, not just my own or the one accross the street. All students should have the same opportunities. I live on the east side and have 4 children in Jordan district. NONE of them has ever be deprived of an educational opportunity because they built schools on the west side. Do your research and look at how well Jordan does academically. It is also one of the most financially responsibly districts aroud and is considered one of the top districts in the nation. Why would anyone want to tear it apart for $20 a month?

My Two Cents | 12:44 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I reside on the west side.

On a side note:
Quite honestly I do not believe we should have to pay property taxes at all. Why should we be taxed over everything? It is bad enough that the Goverment takes a large part of my paycheck twice a month and then taxes me again on my house, when I buy gas etc. Necessary items such as Food, Water, Electricity, and housing shouldn't be taxed.

Sure tax me if I buy a luxury item such as a nintendo or boat, but not on the things that are necessary for living in America.

Now concerning the possible split.
We are a Union. If the South couldn't leave the Union legally then some cities CANNOT leave the school district without the consent of all. If we start to justify the departure of cities from school districts without the consent of everyone we might as well start allowing States to leave the Union.

Simply stated: Majority rules. Nobody leaves the school district(Union) without the majority's apporval.

Those of you that advocate leaving without the majority's consent you make for fine MODERN DAY CONFEDERATES.

Random | 1:26 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Gaston, you could not be more wrong. You said "Jordan School District is is too top heavy and it has everything to do with it's size."

Exactly the opposite is true. Jordan District is one of the most efficient in the nation and it has everything to do with size. According to the US Census, administration costs in Jordan are $344 per student, compared to $378 in Utah and $655 nationally. Why are costs so low? Efficiencies of scale (i.e. Size).

KH | 1:27 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Why are all the comments and concerns about who should pay for who's education? Is this all about money?

Our concerns should be about what is best for the students?

Socialist? | 3:03 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I assume all those who are concerned that paying for someone else's education is socialism are planning to opt out of the social security system.

Those checks, of course, will be made possible by taxing the paychecks of those future workers who are now students in the district. And the better education they have, the more likely it will be that your SS check will arrive every month. (You didn't think your contributions were going into a savings account every two weeks, did you?)

Even if you are planning not to cash a SS check, you must realize that the invest you are planning on to fund your retirement will, at that point, be managed and grown by these children. Better get 'em some good book-learnin' now, don't you think?

amazed | 4:51 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

It is amazing to me that this has become such a ridiculous East side /West side issue of who pays for what! Sounds Junior highish to me!

Missing the point! | 12:36 p.m. Oct. 4, 2007

This isn't about who pays what! This is about giving parents more control in their child's education.I could care less if my taxes go down as a matter of fact keep them the same (put the money where it is needed most), just give me a voice in my childs education.

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