Deseret News | Voucher issue unifies Demos, divides GOP

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Voucher issue unifies Demos, divides GOP

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Anonymous | 12:25 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Then it's going to cost the state $43-60 million more to have the voucher program while not helping the public schools out at all.

Anonymous | 12:26 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Public education generally takes 13 years per student. A few years of double funding isn't going to make that much difference overall when the program is going to end up costing so much without any guarantee that it will make any difference at all.

Anonymous | 12:26 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Comments continue below

hi | 12:26 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

public education is failing then we need to blame ourselves Mark. We are the people and we choose who runs our government.

We are also responsible for our children and our neighbors children. Something Parents for Choice in Segregation cannot understand.

wrong | 12:27 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

The Public system does not keep the total money when a child goes to the private system because the state only gives money based on actual students attending each school. Some money stays at the school for the first five years if mitigation funds, spread out evenly between schools that have lost enrollment to Private Voucher schools, but after that five years is up none will. None will come via students that never enrolled in the public system, which is where I suspect most voucher recipients will come from.

Anonymous | 12:27 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

The voucher program alloted nine-million to public schools as mitigation funds for the first year, and has been the highest selling point of the Voucher program. But the program is going to cost a lot more than that. Consider that it is not capped, that every kindergartener entering will be elligible, and the costs double the second year. At the point that all kids have them the State should be shelling out over a hundred million each year for the program. This is going to be costly tying up funds from other needs.

sj | 12:27 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

I only wish a tax break, at least equal to the cost of supplies was available to homeschoolers. I do believe those costs are deductible. I have worked with a handful of home-school children in their first experience in Public eduction, and found some way ahead of their peers and others that in the upper grade could not read or write. Not all parents are up to the task of making objective decisions for the education of their child because of the closeness they have.

Anonymous | 12:28 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

The example of a parent in sports is rather apt as a comparison. The parent know more than the coach how talented the child is, what position they should play and whether they should hand off or pass. They are always second guessing the coach because they know their child. They really don't need a coach at all.

were | 12:30 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

The proof that vouchers will cost public dollars rather than save dollars is found in the Utah Voter Information Pahphlet which is legally required to be impartial.

Read the fiscal impact statement. It proves that vouchers, when fully implemented will cost somewhere between $43 and $60 million per year.

It's another entitlement program -- that is not needed.

teach | 12:31 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

I want to teach year round on an extended contract. Few are offered. But you are right. More (or less) money will not make teachers care more about the children. It has never been about money for caring. More money will mean your child will have better materials, fewer students to compete for the teachers attention and air conditioning.

db | 12:34 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Don't ever underestimate air conditioning for helping students focus. Comfort is a luxury some Public schools can't afford.

Anonymous | 12:34 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Public schools and private schools should not be regarded as competing like some people suggest. Since public schools are governed by a completely different set of rules than private schools, how can one make a fair assessment as to who is doing better? Don't forget one other thing, at least with public schools, the public owns the buildings, property, and materials within. Private schools are owned by investors who expect to turn a profit. This equates to public education dollars finding their way into a few well-positioned pockets. I wonder how many of our state legislators will be financially benefiting from school vouchers?

ohio | 12:34 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

We were not rich and could not afford to take her to a school that would help her. So my wife homeschooled. It was a great experience for all. But I would have loved to have had the choice to take my daughter to a school that would work!!

Anonymous | 12:35 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Great teachers and administrators will ALWAYS be in demand. They should embrace vouchers.

mmm | 12:35 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Public funds should be used on public education, period. If you can't afford to send your kids to private school, but want to afford it, work 3 jobs, borrow the money, live in a trailer instead of a house, but don't hold out your hand asking others to help pay.

In the meantime, work on making public school education better.

Anonymous | 12:35 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

I for one don't want our tax dollars to be used to teach the FLDS, LDS, RLDS, or Catholic religions. And, I happen to consider myself a religious person. The public system is not failing in Utah. Get a grip.

tony | 12:36 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Under the heading "Impartial Analysis" it says vouchers will cost "$71 million during the Program's 13th year, after all private school students in Utah have become eligible..."

Anonymous | 12:36 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

For all of you who think charter schools are not held to the same standards as public schools, you need to know that charter schools ARE public schools. They have the same expectations as any other public school and get the same funding.
Also, to say that private schools have no accountability is a little bit of a stretch. If you read the actual proposition it is clear that there are expectations. In addition, if the schools were that bad they would loose students; parents would not send their children there. I have encountered enough certified teachers to know that being certified means only that you jumped through the hoops. It does not mean you like kids, or can actually teach your subject. This is not to say that there are not excellent teachers in the public system; there certainly are. You should also know that there are teachers in the public schools who are not certified and are doing a great job. I would like to see a system that rewards good teachers whether they are "certified" or not.

Health | 12:37 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

With the health insurance we will get healthy illegals and undereducated citizens while the school employees increase their larder.

Jules | 7:16 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Our public education system is not falling apart. Our kids have one of the highest percentages of college bound students in the nation. If you're unhappy with the public schools, get involved to help them to better educate your children. Public education is a bastion of the American way of life. Our forefathers came here for freedom and opportunity. Public education provides that for all. By taking funds from public schools to help families choose to send kids to private schools,you'll help kill the public school program. No matter what they say, the infrastructure expenses of public schools will remain almost the same and dollars per student will definitely go down in public schools. Through the years, the effect will be felt more and more until eventually the majority will be wanting to go to private schools. And that will be the end of public education in Utah. Then, we'll have religious or other schools slanting education to their bias that will be teaching our kids,and what looks like freedom for a few now, will eventually be freedom lost for the majority. Don't do it Utah.

Anonymous | 7:45 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

We make people pay according to how much money they have. In fact, we make them pay if they have kids or not. Eveyone pays, not everyone uses the system.

So within that frame work we are trying to create sound economic principles: Choice.

Anonymous | 7:45 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

And on this side of the debate, we know that vouchers won't destroy the public system. It hasn't anywhere vouchers have been implemented. What has happened is the system overall improves. Harvard has studied this several times over the last decade and every study shows that.

Work within the context of education for all, with as many sound economic principles as possible.

v1 | 7:46 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Why is there so much controversy about vouchers..The ultimate goal is to give the children a quality education and give the parents a tool to use in achieving that end. Whether the child being educated comes from a wealthy family or a poor one is irrelevant..there are dumb rich kids and there are smart poor ones. Right now, with "teaching to the lowest level" none of the potential geniuses are helped to achieve greatness.

ll | 7:46 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Gee, what a shocker! Of course the Democrats are completely united when it comes to big corrupt unions, higher taxes, and more government control over all of our lives. This is the center of their lives and existence.

Anonymous | 7:46 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

I just had a thought. If the marketplace is going to control the quality of private schools, what happens to the kids in the private school that fails? Are they just out of luck? They get the rest of the quarter off? Or is the public system going to be required to help out? With no funding. Gee, sounds like a real fair system to me . . . sarcasm intended.

Anonymous | 9:41 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

I recently heard that a legislator from St. George threatened the public, "Give us vouchers, and we'll give you increased health insurance coverage. Don't give us vouchers, and no new insurance plan for Utah. Wow!! That's mighty vicious and right to the point. These ultra conservative big boys are definitely in to play hard ball.

Anonymous | 10:18 p.m. Sept. 30, 2007

Charter Schools are not the same as District schools. They get significantly less funding per student and no property tax. The state does kick in extra funds the first few years to make up for the lack of tax funds, but it stops at some point.

Since a full voucher is worth 3K, and the Charter only receives about 2.5K per pupil we can expect much fewer Charters if Vouchers pass.

Utah Children Sold Out ! | 11:12 p.m. Oct. 2, 2007

Why don't you all check with the Lieutenant Governor's Office and see which Republican legislators have been given money from the Parents for Choice PAC. I think you will find that most of the Republican leadership has sold out the children of Utah for PAC money. Senator John Valentine has taken thousands of dollars from Parents for Choice. Howard Stephenson and the Utah Taxpayers Association is also in bed with Parents for Choice.
The list goes on Chris Buttars, Margaret Dayton,
Steve Urquhart, Bradley Daw, Carl Wimmer,Ken Sumsion,Etc. It is becoming more evident, that in Utah it is possible to get the best government that money can buy ! Please don't quote the Utah Taxpayers Association on anything that has to do with education. It is an organization that has a proven anti-public schools stance and as far as I am concerned is public enemy number one in its actions against utah's public schools. PLEASE GO TO THE PAC SIGHT AT THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND SEE WHICH ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE ON THE PARENTS FOR CHOICE PAYROLL. VOTE NO FOR VOUCHERS !

I vote | 9:37 a.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Can I vote in a public election, for the board of a voucher school?

Concerned Teacher | 1:56 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

I am a Secondary Teacher who has taught for several years. I would like to understand how all of a sudden it is teachers vs. students and parents. I never in my wildest imagination would have thought that I am against any student or parent for that matter, but I am being portrayed as a left-wing liberal simply because I do not support the voucher proposal in this state. I feel that there are some fundamental flaws in our education system, but the answer is not to be reactionary and throw the current system away. Our public education system can be fixed in the following ways: 1. We need parental involvement in schools. I welcome parents in my classroom. Parents are complaining that they have no choice in who is employed in the schools, but where are they when it comes time for parent/teacher conferences? 2. We need to change the way we evaluate our educators. We need to make those evaluations reflect the teacher's ability, not how well they know the evaluator, how funny they are, or how good of a coach they are. (By the way, I am a coach). This could bring about fundamental changes.

Cleo | 6:06 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

The division of parents and teachers was unfortunately first seen with the UEA claiming that anyone for the vouchers is against children. I being a supporter of the Voucher referendum and having children in private school which means our family is ineligible for the vouchers, still support it wholeheartedly! It is a wonderful opportunity and incentive for parents to be given the option of where to educate their children. My family and I will be voting for Vouchers this Nov 6th!!!

Voucher Truths | 7:41 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

"Early voucher bills may move us only slowly toward separation. They may include provisions that temporarily prolong the power of unions, school boards, and other remnants of the socialist regime; limit the number of students who can participate; set voucher amounts too low; and place restrictions on qualifying schools. But once established, those programs will be broadened.

Vouchers offer a halfway house to wean the public from their addiction to government provision of education. By removing institutional barriers to privatization and setting in motion a dynamic that ensures further movement toward competition and choice, vouchers are a necessary step toward complete separation."

Joseph Bast
President, Heartland Institute

There's why Walmart, Amway, and Neo-cons support Vouchers

VLAD | 9:45 p.m. Oct. 3, 2007

Mr, Blast,
I know who you are. I also know about the Heartland Institute. First of all, you and your institute are a major enemy to Public Education. You hate anything that has to do with government agencies. One of your big goals in life is to totally minimize big government...at any cost. You are far right of far right. You and your Heartland Institute have brought your money and your dismal plan for vouchers to Utah. If your plans to dismantle public education succeed, you will cause great damage to the United States. You and your voucher plan will be defeated here in Utah. I urge any of you who read this to go to the Heartland Institute web page and read what they and their like-minded friends have in mind for this country and for public education. VOTE NO ON VOUCHERS !!!!!

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