Comments about ‘Both sides making quiet voucher moves’

So I suppose in order to be a good Mormon and Republican I must vote for vouchers blindly to destroy that nasty teacher Union that controls all the education legislation because the people in the paper want me to. Sign me up!!!

No wonder the Pro Voucher crowd has a tough sell in Utah. Voters actually read and become informed and can smell when something is funny. They should try a different approach--honesty. But let's be honest, even our legislators who were bribed into the voucher mess by out-of-state special interests don't know what the law is or is not supposed to do.

I don't feel vouchers are going to harm public schools, nor going to cause Public schools to change. I do think vouchers are an excellent way to get some government control in Private schools, and if they can lead to more regulation then they MUST be good.

There really isn't any reason to approve vouchers.

My children are grown, so I have no dog in this fight -- except my grandchildren. Our government schools desperately need competition. When taxpayers are required to cough up money to run government schools, it reduces their ability to send their children to other schools that give better results without the socialist indoctrination imposed by NEA teachers. Vouchers are a big step in the right direction. My big complaint is the income-based sliding scale the legislature imposed. If a taxpayer pays $3000 in taxes to support government schools, he should get that money back if he choses to send his family to non-government schools. He should not be required to still send a part of his income to support a school system that is crippled by the NEA.

Silly me! I have always thought that our legislators are in place to listen to their constituents and then act on their behalf. I must have been absent or sleeping in my government & political science classes when they taught us the part about our elected officials working in collusion with small segments of special interest groups to defeat and/or circumvent the will of the majority.

The legislators in the last session passed the voucher bill in spite of the outcry of large segments of the people of this state. If they were so confident that they acted on behalf of, and in the best interest of the majority at that time, why do they now feel the need to band together to defeat the lawful efforts embodied by the referendum?

Given these examples of the attitudes of our representatives in this matter and their recent decisions to limit public access to the chambers, offices, hallways and stairway of OUR government buildings, it is ever more evident that these folks are most at ease to have us out of sight and out of mind - leaving them free to do their own will, not ours.

To tongue in cheek: What does being a good Mormon have to do with this article? The LDS Church isn't even mentioned in it.

My kids go to public school, but I feel it's the right of every parent to decide where they want their kids to go. If I could I would put my kids in a private school, but I can't afford it.

Why would it be wrong for legislators to try to educate people on why they support this program? When people understand the voucher scholarship program, they tend to support it. Those who don't have the details tend to oppose it. So - big vote coming up - why not explain the program? I think they owe it to us to make an effort to do that.

Silly me John M, using your logic then the legislature would pass legislation that fires bad teachers (overwheliming support), provides teachers with merit pay (overwhelming support), implementing more money for classrooms in the form of .65 percent solution (overwhelming support), passes paycheck protection (which is ovrwhelmingly supported by voters but held up due to unoin lawsuits), etc. There are more support for these public school reform measures then there are people opposed to vouchers. So using your logic, hopefully you will be on Capitol Hill this winter pushing these wildly popular and important public school reform measures. Because you have a special interest group who has a personal financial self interest of a teacher's union does not qualify for as a "large segment" opposing vouchers. Apparently you did sleep in your political science class.

Good to see these politicians willing to stand up on principle for a change. Taking on the powerful teachers' union takes guts as well as brains. They have a big challenge as the power hungry union bosses have been very deceptive in misrepresenting what vouchers will (and will not) do to help our kids. Let's all invest in quality education by donating to support vouchers!

Apparently it's not enough for all the multikid families out there to ask me, being single, to pay more in taxes to educate their multitudes while they get a bigger tax break for having even more kids. Now they want me to pay more so they can have a "better" education.

They say our schools need competition. Guess what? Competition already exists. Just don't ask me to foot the bill for you. I don't ask for a tax refund when I use Fedex or UPS to avoid the massive blob of incompetence known as the US Postal Service - that would be ludicrous. But that's the logic the pro-voucher folks are using.

Lastly, I don't know why our legislators are bothering to organize and defeat this. The sad thing about referendums is they last only as long as the Legislature wishes. Remember the referendum to put drug forfeiture funds into the general revenue base to ensure cops aren't biased to abuse the system in order to enrich them and their department? The referendum passed overwhelmingly. Soon after, the legislature overturned the people's vote by eradicating that law. Amazingly, no one seemed to care.

Trust me, they'll do it again.

Put your kids in private schools just don't ask for a government handout. And don't tell me about how unfair it is to pay taxes when your kids are in private school. I don't have any kids.

Quite frankly, vouchers are a bad idea. They are not going to allow anyone who already can't afford to go to a private school to go to one, they are only going to make it more affordable for the people who are already going there. My main gripe with vouchers is that they are going to take more money away from public schools (the great equalizer) and give more money to the priviledged upper class. How is this supposed to be a good thing?

It concerns me when supposedly neutral legislators or legislators that should be listening to the people are engaged in such obviously one sided campaigning against this referendum.

Communities for Quality Education, the organization mentioned in the article, also gets its funding from NEA and the union's state affiliates. It was formed in 2004 by NEA and is run entirely by current and former NEA staff and officers.

I've said this before and I'll say this again. I wouldn't have a problem with vouchers if private schools were held to the same standards as public schools. Why should private schools be able to have public money, but not have to take the special needs children? Why should private schools not have to take and pass the same Core tests that public schools do? Why should private schools be able to "cherry pick" which children they want to admit, or keep in their schools. Accepting public money means you should be held to the same standards as public schools.

It's really very surprising that our legislators are more interested in convincing us that they were right to vote in vouchers, even though the majority of their constituents are against them.

More surprising still is the arguments that they use. For most people the biggest problem with vouchers is accountability when spending public money. Under the voucher bill private schools are not required to pass state accreditation or use certified teachers.

The legislators well orchestrated response to this concern is that accreditation and certification don't mean anything.

If you get a chance, ask them about accreditation and certification. Then when they say "it's only a piece of paper," (I actually heard one say this - I am not making this up. I'm just not that funny or imaginative.) - when they say "it's only a piece of paper and doesn't matter," ask them about certification for doctors, lawyers, plumbers and truck drivers. My so called "conservative" representative told me those people didn't need state licensing either.

It's pure cognitive dissonance and money is driving the process.

Blaine,

I have no kids in school. Why not give me back 'my' tax money too since it is 'my' tax money and I am not using 'my' tax on public education.

Your argument doesn't hold any water. It isn't an individuals money once tax is paid. It is the State or local municipalities revenue to be used for the public benefit. Breaking down the taxation system would end or reduce such services as roads and free public education, and that is what vouchers presently do.

Then consider that many families with children pay much less tax then is used for their child's education. I doubt there are many families that pay more in tax then the benefits they receive because of the child tax credit. We ALL shoulder the costs of education in Utah. I just see vouchers as a way for the few elite who are able to go to a private school to be able to opt out on their responsibility to pay for the education of others.

Wow. "John M" and "tongue in Cheek" ... spoken like true teachers union members, as only a teacher would be against competition in a completely failed public school system.

THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS HERE is to note that teachers unions are dumping MILLIONS of dollars into this anti-voucher cause. Why in the world does a teachers union have that much money? I thought all teachers were so underpaid. What are they afraid of, that kids might get well educated enough to see how terrible public schools are?

A vote against vouchers is a vote against parents rights because you believe that teachers know better than parents. And that's just silly.

Looks like the BIG BUCKS are all coming from a single out-of-state source, the NEA. Why would that be? Is the leadership of this organization so terrified of competition that they'll spend such a large amount of teacher's union dues to prevent parent's choice in seeking the best education for their children? Aren't these some of the same people who demand "Pro-Choice" in other areas of our lives? Throughout our history, competition has proved to be beneficial in every aspect of our lives. Why not this one?

Cheek nails it, there is no reason to approve vouchers. Look for big time revenge from our beloved legislators when their bill is chrushed by the informed voters. I would even look for them to try to get rid of the referendum process, you just can not leave law to the silly voters.

The problem with Blaine's logic is that most people don't pay enough taxes to support even one child in public schools for a year. Many people who will take advantage of vouchers are doing so on someone else's dime. And what about childless people. Should they even have to pay taxes to support other people's children?

What is most ironic of all, is that government subsidies of private entities is socialism. Everyone keeps touting vouchers as leading to competition, but I view it as government interference in private schools. Vouchers are simply socialism. I will make sure my children will remain in a private school that doesn't accept vouchers, not in a hybrid private school with the state government calling the shots as time progresses and abuses begin to happen.

The quality of our education have steadly declined since the unions were allowed in our schools I think during the Kennedy administration.Test scores have dropped.It seems the emphatus has been more on our teachers rather than the Students.I know God has completly disappeared from our socialist schools.I believe without competition the schools will never improve.The Teachers and there familys have led the fight to get rid of vouchers encouraged by there unions who doesnt believe in free enterprise.