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Warren Jeffs' accuser no longer anonymous
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Duh | 5:34 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
Of course she won't get any of the money, her lawyer will get it all!
Sara | 5:56 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
Elissa is an amazing young woman. Regardless of the outcome, she has won. She is
a hero for legally challenging the omnipotent power of this group's
religious leader(s), which has victimized men, women and children for
generations. Congratulations, Elissa. What you've done will change many
lives for the better.
NCG | 6:00 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
I think it is pathetic in this modern age that these little girls are forced
into sex slavery. Polygamy has been a blight on Utah and the church for more
than a century. When my daughter was in high school she knew some polygamist
girls whose father was molesting them. Their mother turned a deaf ear because
at least he wasn't molesting her. This abomination of living must be wiped
out. I am the great great granddaughter of a polygamist and the stories from
that era were the same as today. This poor child deserves everyone's
respect for fighting back and speaking out.
Comments continue below
happy plyg kid | 6:58 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
There are terrible things that have happened in some polygamist families. I am
proud of Elissa and glad she has done what she has. But I was disturbed by
NCG's comment. She is blanketing all polygamists by the few encounters she
has had. I grew up in a polygamist family and had a very good childhood.
Nobody ever molested me and I had a very normal childhood. Nobody would have
guessed that I had two moms. That was the only way my family differed from
other families. There are very good people who live polygamist lifestyles
because of their religious beliefs. It's sad the way too many have chosen
to warp it as Warren Jeff's has. I will never agree with forced marriage
or arranged marriages, child abuse and the like. But I have to wonder how so
many of you can say all polygamists are bad people and in the next breath say
you believe Joseph Smith was a prophet.
Many Christians did terrible things throughout history. Were all Christians bad?
Many Christians did terrible things throughout history. Were all Christians bad?
NCG | 7:12 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
I don't know is Joseph Smith was a prophet or not. I don't know is
Mohammad was a prophet or not. Both were men, and innately fallible. As Christ
said 'There is only One who is perfect. My Father in heaven.' Every
story of polygamy in the bible is a cautionary tale and having two mothers who
sleep with the same father, is a BIG DEAL and way not like everyone else, thank
God. Besides..the hygiene!! I wouldn't even share a toothbrush with
another woman.
shavidaria | 7:12 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
Warren Jeffs seems quite warped and power hungry, but this trial is a farce.
Why is he being tried for rape as an accomplice when it's not even clear
that rape happened? I want to know if Elissa is telling the truth. She may
have been 14 but now she is 21 and very capable of giving the whole truth. I
wonder. And if she isn't, why does that make her a hero? There are so
many things that we are learning about the FLDS in this trial that point to the
opposite of what the media is cramming down our throats, and still people seem
to want to label polygamy as all the same when there are so many different
angles. Way more than abuse, child neglect, forced marriages, which I
don't believe are really happening down there, incest. Everyone knows that
the media will minupulate to their view and bad news is what we get constantly.
Why can't people broaden their views a little? Instead taking each bite
they feed us?
happy Plyg kid | 7:27 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
I totally understand where your coming from. I never said that having two moms
was normal. I said my childhood was normal in every other way. I know that it
is a very different life style. I understand why people don't like the
idea of a man having more than one wife. I just felt it is important that we
recognize that not everybody who lives that way is bad. My dad is a good man,
who always taught me to do what is right.
grammaC | 7:46 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
I once heard Elder Maxwell say in a BYU speech, "All Indians walk
backwards! At least the one I saw did."
He was trying to make the point that not all people behave the same way in the same circumstances. I doubt very much that all those who have a family history of plural marriage will have stories of abuse and/or neglect. When it was instigated by the Prophet Joseph Smith, very few people practiced it.
It is a law that would be very difficult to live, although if they brought it back, I think I would vote "yes". It would be great to have help in the kitchen, laundry room, and taking care of the children.
I know people (even now) who recognize those who are members of polygomist families, but I would never think of it if they didn't point them out. They are not bad people, but their leaders are causing them to do something illegal; i.e. Warren Jeffs told his people not to pay property tax. I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
He was trying to make the point that not all people behave the same way in the same circumstances. I doubt very much that all those who have a family history of plural marriage will have stories of abuse and/or neglect. When it was instigated by the Prophet Joseph Smith, very few people practiced it.
It is a law that would be very difficult to live, although if they brought it back, I think I would vote "yes". It would be great to have help in the kitchen, laundry room, and taking care of the children.
I know people (even now) who recognize those who are members of polygomist families, but I would never think of it if they didn't point them out. They are not bad people, but their leaders are causing them to do something illegal; i.e. Warren Jeffs told his people not to pay property tax. I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
plyg kid | 7:56 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
I think the point that should be made is that sexual sin is in every religion.
Baptist, Catholic, Mormon, Polygamists. Sadly it is way to rampant. You
can't say all polygamists are molesters and bad people because of the
actions of some. The sad thing about this case is that because Warren
Jeff's is a sick minded man, he has done way to much harm. It is sad when
a man like him has so much power. I think Elissa is doing the right thing. He
needs to be stopped.
DEBATER | 8:26 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
===
THIS ACCUSER IS ABOVE THE LAW
ABOVE STANDARD POLICY OR
ABOVE PROCEDURE
THIS IS HOW THE SECULAR AND RELIGIOUS KINDERGARDEN-CHURCH-STATE AND GOVERNMENT OPERATES
KINDERGARDEN PROCEDURE TO BE EXCUSED...THE [FLDS] KINDERGARDEN PRINCIPAL i.e. W.Jeff will read the note for you to be excused.
You'd better write or note or SIGN a note written by a third party to be either (a) excused from anything or (b) terminated from the army, SEPARATED OR DIVORCED, OR whatever...
===
THIS ACCUSER IS ABOVE THE LAW
ABOVE STANDARD POLICY OR
ABOVE PROCEDURE
THIS IS HOW THE SECULAR AND RELIGIOUS KINDERGARDEN-CHURCH-STATE AND GOVERNMENT OPERATES
KINDERGARDEN PROCEDURE TO BE EXCUSED...THE [FLDS] KINDERGARDEN PRINCIPAL i.e. W.Jeff will read the note for you to be excused.
You'd better write or note or SIGN a note written by a third party to be either (a) excused from anything or (b) terminated from the army, SEPARATED OR DIVORCED, OR whatever...
===
Zeb | 8:30 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
Notice how the attorney didn't say she would be getting any PROPERTY. And
very valuable property at that, seeing how real estate values in this area have
shot way up since around 2002, with the St. George area being the largest real
estate growth area in the state of Utah since 2003.
What's fueling this growth is retirement communities being built all around this area, and these same developers would surely like to get their hands on this church's other properties around there as well. Which is the REAL reason this entire persecution of Jeffs and his church began in the first place after over 100 years of the government leaving these people alone when their land wasn't worth the dirt it sits on... (continued)
What's fueling this growth is retirement communities being built all around this area, and these same developers would surely like to get their hands on this church's other properties around there as well. Which is the REAL reason this entire persecution of Jeffs and his church began in the first place after over 100 years of the government leaving these people alone when their land wasn't worth the dirt it sits on... (continued)
Zeb | 8:32 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
...Just follow the money, people, and see the REAL reason why Jeffs is being
persecuted, and also ask yourself that if this young lady was raped as
prosecutors allege, then WHY HAVEN'T THEY INDICTED THE ALLEGED RAPIST, HER
HUSBAND?
Because he's not worth diddly squat, that's why, and they're only interested in taking away this land from Jeffs and his church.
And no, I'm not a Mormon and I don't think Jeffs a prophet and I don't care for this church. It's just that I hate BS, and I love the 1st Amendment freedom of religion clause, and I hate corrupt government and their greedy lobbyists, like the ones who want Jeffs land.
Because he's not worth diddly squat, that's why, and they're only interested in taking away this land from Jeffs and his church.
And no, I'm not a Mormon and I don't think Jeffs a prophet and I don't care for this church. It's just that I hate BS, and I love the 1st Amendment freedom of religion clause, and I hate corrupt government and their greedy lobbyists, like the ones who want Jeffs land.
Lindsay | 9:02 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
I agree the husband should be charged and maybe the parents for child
endangerment. Jeffs is being charged because he ordered the marriage and forced
her to be married at the age of 14. After being married sex is going to happen
even if she didn't want it to happen. Look at her picture and then tell me
you don't think Jeffs should be tried for this. Does she look like she
would be a great wife? and Sexual trauma can take years to heal from if ever,
and yes being married and "forced" to have sex is criminal act and
sexual trauma!
Tiny | 9:29 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
Elissa I commend you for coming forward. In my book you are already winner!!!
DEBATER | 9:35 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
==
ACCUSER FAILED NORMAL PROCEDURE
If you want: (a) FLDS Execuse from anything, (b) "FLDS Annulment, (c) FLDS Separation, and/or (d) FLDS Divorce, you put it in writting and service it to the FLDS leader for action.
If you failed to do so, you will "FALL TRHOUGH THE CRACKS OF THE [FLDS] SYSTEM."
The Accuser failed to write a letter to the appropriate secular and FLDS authorities; therefore accuser fell throught the cracks of both systems, Secular and FLDS Systems.
===
ACCUSER FAILED NORMAL PROCEDURE
If you want: (a) FLDS Execuse from anything, (b) "FLDS Annulment, (c) FLDS Separation, and/or (d) FLDS Divorce, you put it in writting and service it to the FLDS leader for action.
If you failed to do so, you will "FALL TRHOUGH THE CRACKS OF THE [FLDS] SYSTEM."
The Accuser failed to write a letter to the appropriate secular and FLDS authorities; therefore accuser fell throught the cracks of both systems, Secular and FLDS Systems.
===
DEBATER | 10:03 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
==
ACCUSER FAILED NORMAL PROCEDURE
If you want: (a) FLDS Execuse from anything, (b) "FLDS Annulment, (c) FLDS Separation, and/or (d) FLDS Divorce, you put it in writting and service it to the FLDS leader for action.
If you failed to do so, you will "FALL TRHOUGH THE CRACKS OF THE [FLDS] SYSTEM."
The Accuser failed to write a letter to the appropriate secular and FLDS authorities; therefore accuser fell throught the cracks of both systems, Secular and FLDS Systems.
===
ACCUSER FAILED NORMAL PROCEDURE
If you want: (a) FLDS Execuse from anything, (b) "FLDS Annulment, (c) FLDS Separation, and/or (d) FLDS Divorce, you put it in writting and service it to the FLDS leader for action.
If you failed to do so, you will "FALL TRHOUGH THE CRACKS OF THE [FLDS] SYSTEM."
The Accuser failed to write a letter to the appropriate secular and FLDS authorities; therefore accuser fell throught the cracks of both systems, Secular and FLDS Systems.
===
Whazzit? | 11:52 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
What language is Debater writing? I don't understand a sentence he (or
she) has written.
Nate | 12:14 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007
According to the debater you may fall through the cracks without putting
something int writing, but what is the point of writing something up if you know
that it is going to get rejected? According to her she went to Jeffs to have him
annul the marriage. When he said didn't grant her that than what is the
point of going through the formalities? If she knew that she was going to sue
him and this is all just to get the money, than yes that would have been the
smart thing to do. However, if she is sincerely trying to get recompense that it
is perfectly understandable to not write something up if the leader that has to
approve it anyways has already rejected it.
? For Debater | 12:43 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007
The Debater uses "mumbo jumbo" and has also fallen through the
cracks!!! Imagine a young teenage FLDS child knowing all about the "mumbo
jumbo" the debater is talking about and being able to executeon it!!!!
Seeing how many of these FLDS polygamist women look repressed and act that way
also, in public, one can imagine how they were molded for that role as little
children. Try smiling at one some time in Wal Mart or Costco, most likely she
will look away, especially if their husband is around.
NCG | 9:50 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007
I have a granddaughter who will turn 14 this November, she is a 4.0 student with
many awards. She is not mature enough to stand up to adult authority. I
don't believe she is mature enough to have physical relations. How can
some of you people look at pictures of that little and believe she was capable
of consent. This cult has to be broken up and stopped. Besides, her first
cousin!
That gives me the creeps. Warren Jeff is a dog.
That gives me the creeps. Warren Jeff is a dog.
live the law of the land | 11:05 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007
how sad for this girl, I have a daughter of this age. Hence this is theft of the
sacred. Native Americans once practiced this principle and there were alot of
good people who came from such unions however they were forced to give it up. I
agree with the main church as this man ruled ..taking the free will away while
back in the day such unions may have been needed for a survival of a people.
this one seems to be built on greed and lust for sure. As my family and I travel
around the state we visit alot of polygamous areas and it has become a
"group think" kind of thing. Takes away the free will of man for sure
so thanks to all those who do stand up against this practice as it is a tribute
to recogize the wrong...not saying that no good came from this practice when the
right principle was practiced just that don't accept something like this as
it stands against the true, honest heritage many have in their family
history.Feel sorry for the Lost Boys too as have met some..just tell it like it
is and "Get er done".eradicate!
warren Jeffs on the internet! | 11:12 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007
there would be not debate!
MoJules | 1:55 p.m. Sept. 22, 2007
Some ask why it is Jeff's that is getting sued. In this society, there is
one mind and one master, that is Jeff's, they are brainwashed to believe
and do what he says. Yes the husband was 19, but he was doing what he is told,
these people do what they are told or they lose everything. Don't forget
the men who were excommunicated from this church and were left with nothing,
because it is mandatory that they give all their property and put it in their
church's name. Don't forget about the young boys that are kicked out
at a young age from that community because they do not want young boys to be
competing with these old men. Some do stay, I would guess because of who their
father is. These people are segregated, they are forced to dress and do what
the top man says, be it a sad little 14 year old girl, or a 19 year old boy.
Many are quite slow, they are inter-marrying and we are only seeing the ones
that are not severely disabled, I worked with many who had two or three children
who were physically and mentally disabled.
Powerful Women | 2:06 p.m. Sept. 22, 2007
Hooray for this woman that she would step out of her "comfort zone" in
an effort to prevent other young girls of this religion from being put through
the trauma of such sexual acts. Marriage is not a placement, but a desired union
between two mature adults that are in love and want to spend their lives
together. This whole case is about a bunch of sick men that got together and
created a "religion" that they felt would justify their immoral,
incestuous, deviated child molestation. They have brain washed so many and will
certainly be held accountable on Judgement Day. My prayers are with this young
woman for all she has been put through. Jeffs should certainly be held
accountable for his illicit teachings.
Molly | 6:27 p.m. Sept. 22, 2007
If the jurors find Jeffs guilty, soon we will have women coming out of the
woodwork, blaming their polygamous leaders for their own teenage marriages to
much older men. Come on, Jeffs is no more to blame than others in their
community. Her mother and father let this happen to their daughter, because
all the girls marry as children, and some of the mothers even marry the same guy
their own daughter marries. Sick! This is what they do, and what they believe!
This is such a weird case!
Jeffs might be a wack-o, but it is pretty weird that he even has followers. ????
Jeffs might be a wack-o, but it is pretty weird that he even has followers. ????
amazed | 6:32 p.m. Sept. 22, 2007
I also think what this woman is doing is brave and great.
I am amazed at how many people who write either do not read what they wrote before they push the enter button, or don't know when they are or are not making a complete and understandable sentence, or do not have a train of thought in their paragraph that is easy to follow. Some of these are hard to understand. A few misspelled words or typos are not what I'm stumbling over.
Punctuation, grammer, the noun and verb, etc. in the sentence are not just boring things we were compelled to pretend to learn in English classes. They actually help you write your thoughts so the reader can understand you. Isn't that why you write your ideas? So someone else can know what they are?
I am amazed at how many people who write either do not read what they wrote before they push the enter button, or don't know when they are or are not making a complete and understandable sentence, or do not have a train of thought in their paragraph that is easy to follow. Some of these are hard to understand. A few misspelled words or typos are not what I'm stumbling over.
Punctuation, grammer, the noun and verb, etc. in the sentence are not just boring things we were compelled to pretend to learn in English classes. They actually help you write your thoughts so the reader can understand you. Isn't that why you write your ideas? So someone else can know what they are?
Zeb | 12:30 a.m. Sept. 23, 2007
The defense SAYS that the picture they released of the girl was when she was 14,
but how can that be verified? even the girl has apparently stated that the pic
was taken "around 7 months before the marriage." It seems like a ploy
to me by her defense lawyers to try and make her look like a little child.
The whole matter could be solved quite easily by simply releasing pictures of their wedding, or when they were together after being married, etc.
This gal never even went to the police first; she went to a CIVIL LAWYER first to see what kind of money she could get out of Jeffs. This was the first person she ever claimed to that she was raped. Then the lawyer advised her that it would help her case if Jeffs was first convicted in a criminal court. The lawyer is famous for going after religious people.
This thing stinks to high heaven, and I'm not even Mormon but I know a person being railroaded when I see it.
The whole matter could be solved quite easily by simply releasing pictures of their wedding, or when they were together after being married, etc.
This gal never even went to the police first; she went to a CIVIL LAWYER first to see what kind of money she could get out of Jeffs. This was the first person she ever claimed to that she was raped. Then the lawyer advised her that it would help her case if Jeffs was first convicted in a criminal court. The lawyer is famous for going after religious people.
This thing stinks to high heaven, and I'm not even Mormon but I know a person being railroaded when I see it.
Zeb | 12:35 a.m. Sept. 23, 2007
By the way, Jesus Christ is a descendent of at least 2 different first cousin
marriages (one being Jacob and Rachael), and there's nothing in the Bible
that says such a thing is a sin.
Don't let ignorance fool you.
Don't let ignorance fool you.
mshal | 5:47 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
SHE WAS 14 YEARS OLD!!!!
She was a CHILD!!!!
She was a CHILD!!!!
Zeb | 11:38 p.m. Sept. 25, 2007
Utah law allows a 14 year old the right of consent.
So does Arizona, provided a Superior Court judge witnesses it.
And all Jeffs told the young lady is the same thing Apostle Paul, speaking through the Holy Spirit, states in the Bible:
"Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body, but the wife.
Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and to come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." - I Corinthians 7:3-5, The Holy Bible
Jeffs was railroaded because of this area of his land having the highest increase in the country in land value since 2000, something which has not been reported, of course.
So does Arizona, provided a Superior Court judge witnesses it.
And all Jeffs told the young lady is the same thing Apostle Paul, speaking through the Holy Spirit, states in the Bible:
"Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body, but the wife.
Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and to come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency." - I Corinthians 7:3-5, The Holy Bible
Jeffs was railroaded because of this area of his land having the highest increase in the country in land value since 2000, something which has not been reported, of course.
Zeb | 10:12 a.m. Sept. 26, 2007
If this isn't a set up against Warren Jeffs and his church, then someone
please tell me of any other time in American history that the government charged
and convicted an alleged ACCESSORY to a rape, but never charged or tried the
RAPIST for the rape when they had the rapist in 'custody'.
Hello?
Hello?
Dave Broder | 7:13 p.m. Sept. 26, 2007
Yes, it is pathetic that little girls, and sometimes boys, are forced into
sexual slavery by those that they have been raised to trust. Jeff's case
might not be as bad as Joseph Kibwetere's Movement for the Restoration of
the Ten Commandments of God, which is a subject of a recent book, Ashes of
faith: a doomsday cult's orchestration of mass murder i Africa, but is
nonetheless equally immoral.
Zeb | 10:15 p.m. Sept. 26, 2007
'Forced?' if she was 'forced,' then why the marriage
ceremony in which she was asked whether or not she took the guy to be her
husband or not, upon which she then said "I do."
She had the right to say "I don't."
And something for the so-called law professors to ponder, and that is if the government claims that a so-called 'child' cannot lawfully consent to sex, then how is it that they can lawfully NOT consent to sex?
And I see today that they've finally realized the contradiction they were in, the law, in charging and convicting Jeffs but not having even charged the alleged RAPIST, so they apparently have now charged her former husband with ONE count of rape today. The problem with this is that they convicted Jeffs of TWO counts of rape.
Why then haven't they charged her former husband with TWO counts of rape?
The entire think reeks to high heaven, IMO.
She had the right to say "I don't."
And something for the so-called law professors to ponder, and that is if the government claims that a so-called 'child' cannot lawfully consent to sex, then how is it that they can lawfully NOT consent to sex?
And I see today that they've finally realized the contradiction they were in, the law, in charging and convicting Jeffs but not having even charged the alleged RAPIST, so they apparently have now charged her former husband with ONE count of rape today. The problem with this is that they convicted Jeffs of TWO counts of rape.
Why then haven't they charged her former husband with TWO counts of rape?
The entire think reeks to high heaven, IMO.
RLG | 12:09 a.m. Nov. 20, 2007
The right to say "I Don't"? Give me a freakin' break.
Kirk | 5:11 p.m. Nov. 20, 2007
Are they going to do anything to the former husband?
Also I agree with putting this guy behind bars but her request for the $110 million trust to cover her legal fee's is quite ridiculous. There is no way her legal fee's cost that much.
She's definatly a victim but I hate it when people try to use their victim status to run off with loads of cash. A couple mil maybe, but not 110.
Also I agree with putting this guy behind bars but her request for the $110 million trust to cover her legal fee's is quite ridiculous. There is no way her legal fee's cost that much.
She's definatly a victim but I hate it when people try to use their victim status to run off with loads of cash. A couple mil maybe, but not 110.
Evelyn | 9:41 p.m. June 30, 2009
Will we ever know if the former husband got charged?
Elissa didn't want any restitution. Not even counseling!?
The
book kept me mesmorized and I just gobbled up the last 1/3.
Elissa didn't want any restitution. Not even counseling!?
The
book kept me mesmorized and I just gobbled up the last 1/3.
Anonymous | 5:08 p.m. Nov. 18, 2009
I cannot understand this kind of sect, but I feel that Allen Steed is also a
victim of Warren Jeffs once he did what was told as from God, that is to have
children and was followed up to reach the goal. And he was pretty young when
they got married. So I think he should have an small punishment of about six
month not more. I think that his problem was that he defended Warren jeffs in
the trial. Otherwise he would have got free of the crime. I read the book and
felt astonished with the story. I can not believe that those kind of things
happen in our days. I think that the freedom that you have to choose and follow
a belief has a limit which was far overcome.
My name is Mary Gonçalves, I am from Brazil and fortunately we don´t have these kinds of absurds here.
My name is Mary Gonçalves, I am from Brazil and fortunately we don´t have these kinds of absurds here.
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Photo of Elissa Wall, at age 14, the alledged rape victim who testified against FLDS leader Warren Jeffs who is charged with being an accomplice to rape in arranging the marriage of Wall to her 19-year-old cousin. Wall is now 21 years old. Photo was released today by Wall's attorney Greg Hoole.
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