Deseret News | Reader comments: Walker says education 'needs intensive care'

Reader comments
Walker says education 'needs intensive care'

Government Schools | 4:57 a.m. Sept. 21, 2007

We love Mrs. Walker. She was a great governor.

But she has helped perpetuate one of the biggest problems with education: an old belief that the Government approach to schooling our kids is the best/only way, that only government can assure education is done right.

It's time to
1- recognize that there are deficiencies in even the best of government schools. They are failing to meet the needs of many bright kids.
2- give charter and private schools more encouragement.

Parents (taxpayers/voters) can do very well at deciding whether alternative schools are suitable for their own children.

Instereo | 7:38 a.m. Sept. 21, 2007

Public schools are community schools, not governement schools. The teachers work for the school district which is directly accountable to a school board elected from the community. They are also accountable to the taxpayers for how they spend their money and for the progress children make in school. Former Gov. Walker is right in saying that vouchers are an entitlement that has no accountability to the taxpayers of Utah. If you are really upset with the schools, become involved with the PTA, or run for school board, or at least attend the meetings and make your voice heard. That's how to change schools. Not by tearing them down and trying to replace them with a for profit private education system. BTW, Charter schools are public schools and have plenty of support in the state but they are also accountable to the taxpayers.

I wonder | 8:17 a.m. Sept. 21, 2007

I wonder if the boy from Olympus High School who had a perfect score on the ACT test is a bright kid whose needs are not met, or the girl from Skyline a couple of years ago who had perfect scores on the ACT and SAT colege prep scores. If your school isn't good enough, you have the right to choose any public school in the state, not just those in your own school district.
It's fine to chooe private schools. Just don't expect me to pay for it.
Instereo's remarks are brilliant.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 8:49 a.m. Sept. 21, 2007

This "accountability" argument is a tired old dog. We have lots of official accountability measures in statute and rule, but the public schools are still "in intensive care." These accountability requirements drain resources from the public school system that could be used to improve the quality of education, but are not because the public system, being funded by the coercive power of taxation and its client base created by the police power to mandate attendance, has no other accountability mechanism.

Private schools are accountable to their clients, and that accountability is enforced when those clients "vote with their feet" and take their business elsewhere. These clients are the very same taxpayers for whom NCLB and UPASS were created, but they are closer to the individual school and student, and therefore in a better position to determine the quality of the product than some legislative committee with its abstract reliance on test scores and its political motivations.

The accountability danger from vouchers is not that private schools are unaccountable, but rather that some moron in the legislature will try to impose socialist accountability on the private schools and hamper their effectiveness.

Tom | 9:13 a.m. Sept. 21, 2007

Dear Anonymous,

I wonder if the same "moron" you seem worried about is the one who is dictating the accountability that has kids tested almost as much as they are taught.

In my opinion if you want public funding through vouchers you are also buying public accountability the public school system operates under. I think there are some private schools who are expressing that idea by saying they won't accept vouchers when and if they do become available.

public school administrator | 10:06 a.m. Sept. 21, 2007

I run a public school and I find it amazing that no one is talking about the single greatest threat to public schools. Over the next ten years our public school enrollment will increase by 160,000 students. That is 400% more than the last 10 years. These students will dilute the funding available to the children currently attending my school and will lead to massive increases in class size AND huge property tax increases to build schools for all these kids. This is a huge baby boom and we have our heads in the sand!

I am all FOR giving parents a small incentive to get some of this huge increase in student population to move to private schools. Any parent that is willing to invest thousands of dollars to take children to a private school should be thanked, not ridiculed. In most states 10-12% of their students are in private schools. This takes a huge amount of pressure off public schools. In Utah, only 3% are in private schools. This puts a huge burden on our schools and taxpayers. This whole debate has been twisted and we are not looking at the crisis that is upon us.

SBN | 11:21 a.m. Sept. 21, 2007

Anonymous believes that the free market will provide all the acountability that's needed, as parents "vote with their feet" and leave low-performing private schools. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case anywhere that vouchers have been tried before.

In Milwaukee alone, voucher school operaters have defrauded the taxpayers of millions of dollars by inflating their enrollment numbers. Even when parents do remove their children from unsatisfactory voucher schools, the school district isn't reimbursed the money that was paid to that private school.

And this doesn't even begin to address the quality of education these schools provide. As a taxpayer, I am unwilling to subsidize my neighbors' decision to send their children to a school that doesn't have to hire licensed teachers, follow the state curriculum, or publicly report how well all their students are performing.

Vote NO.

Rabbi | 12:17 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007

Public School Administrator, your thinking is refreshing--to think that someone so entrenched in the system can look to an issue beyond the common arguments is reassuring. Thank you. Faculty talk at the water cooler must be a frustrating exercise in patience for you. I'm not sure exactly which solution I prefer to help improve education (although I am fascinated and very partial to charter schools). But the bottom line for me is that public educators better start coming up with some solutions for the suffering system besides, "leave us alone, stop demanding accountability, and give us more money." That has been the MO for over a century now and things aren't improving here, while all around us are countries who are improving and leaving us in the dust. In the meantime we are arguing among ourselves as the wagon train that is the American education bureaucracy grinds to a pathetic and painful halt with hundreds of thousands of our children trapped in the spokes of the wagon wheel.

Public School Teacher | 12:30 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007

Oh yes, why don't we support the wealthy MORE by giving them MORE financial support. Let's get that disappearance of the middle class stronger, shall we? Face it, no one will be able to afford a private school unless they have a huge amount of disposable income--voucher or no voucher.

Are you really a public school administrator? I think not.

Mike M. | 1:35 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007

Gov. Walker is right on about vouchers. How can we feel comfortable about paying for a system that is not under the scrutiny of government?

A Taxpayer | 2:38 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007

I get so sick and tired of being hit for more money. In the last couple of years, the Republican Party passed a resolution asking what illegal immigrants cost us. Sen. Dayton, to my knowledge, IS THE ONLY ONE that bothered to honor the request of the resolution, that being to determine what illegals cost in our education system.

She came up with an estimate of at least $58 million. IF we are really hurting for money, when are we going to bill the feds for this amount? It is they, after all, that demand that we educate illegal alien kids!

To Publik Skool Teechur | 2:48 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007

If actually had read and understood the voucher law, then you would understand that it's not open to "wealthy" people -- only middle-class and poor families are eligible.

It's the type of government income re-distribution programs that left-wing organizations like the NEA traditionally support. Except when it threatens their lucrative stranglehold on education, of course.

Chuck | 4:03 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007

Wrong! Wealthy people can also get the voucher, and while middle class and poor qualify they won't have enough money to add to the voucher to use it. So even if it is only $500 that the wealthy take, it will mostly only be used by the wealthy. The poor can't afford it.

Anonymous | 1:01 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007

Public Schools are communism. Teachers are failing because there is no competition. The state is full of lazy teachers that hate the idea of competition (the kind of competition EVERYONE else who has a real job has to deal with daily). Thats why the school system is so aweful - the bad teachers cant be fired, the good ones are not rewarded. Thats the bottom line of socialism - and its the spine of public education. Replace the failing system with a free market. Freedom will fix the problem Gov Walker refused to tackle. Olene Walker is pathetic and gives republicans a bad name. Its think its funny that this article mentions that she left office with 89% approval. Thats Bull Crap- if she had such good approval, Why did she get destroyed when she ran for re-election?!

Art | 1:09 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007

The people should never be Accountable to the government. The constitution provides that the Government be accountable to the people. I support School Vouchers because they allow the people choice and freedom. Look back to the pre-public school era. Our education system was superior to the rest of the world. The Federal k-12 system is aweful. Dewey ruined our education system. Give the people back their power over the system! Support School Vouchers. Public Schools are broken.

P. S.Teacher, former home school | 9:45 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007

Rights! Freedom! It seems to me that is what we should be thinking of. What is best for the children. No system is perfect but what system works best for the child in question? That should be the parents right to decide. The tax money will be collected for education no matter how you school your children. Isn't it fair for the parent to get some of that money to educate their children in this state where the money is collected? Most Public school teachers do the best they can for the children. So do charter and private. Can't we all just think about the children and what is best for them. Not the money, not the tests, not the mandated federal accountability. Each child is different and should be treated a such. Not expected to fit a one size fits all standard or school if the parent chooses.

JGolden | 1:39 p.m. Sept. 23, 2007

The major problem facing Utah schools are parents; yes you Dad and you Mom. You wanna bring as many spirit children from our HF to Utah...You just don't wanna pick up the tab for educating them!!!!

:) | 1:51 p.m. Sept. 23, 2007

"leave us alone, stop demanding accountability, and give us more money."

That is an excellent quote Rabbi.

This is precisely why Vouchers are a bad idea as all those things are perfectly true of how Voucher money is going to be used. Yes the quote was aimed at the Public School system, but when put into context how most in Utah feel about the Voucher program it is quite adequate to what Vouchers feel like.

:) | 1:59 p.m. Sept. 23, 2007

"To Publik Skool Teechur | 2:48 p.m. Sept. 21, 2007
If actually had read and understood the voucher law, then you would understand that it's not open to "wealthy" people -- only middle-class and poor families are eligible."

This statement is entirely untrue. Regardless of income, all families are eligible so long as that child is leaving a Public school or starting the first year of Kindergarten. At a certain threshold the rich are still entitled to a $500 Voucher. The only ones not eligible are those with kids currently enrolled in a Private school. Oh yes, I did actually read the Voucher bills, and suggest that you do the same.

:) | 2:07 p.m. Sept. 23, 2007

Obviously several posters are from out of state, especially "Anonymous | 1:01 a.m. Sept. 22, 2007".

Governor Walker was and is beloved by her constituents. She was a fierce advocate for education and for children in her brief stay as Governor. But being in the Republican party where guys like Howard Stephenson and Curtis Bramble can make believe they are Pro-education and get re-elected when they are diametrically opposed to it kept her from ever being on the ballot so the people could vote.

Fortunately, Huntsman came forward as the Republican nominee. He has been very strong on Education despite his early leanings towards voucher subsidies. But I would have gladly voted for an supported Walker had the big wigs allowed her on the ballot.

:) | 2:16 p.m. Sept. 23, 2007

Art,

Back it up. What is the proof that Public Schools IN UTAH are broken. Until that point is fully proven no amount of money from Overstock or Walmart is going to persuade the taxpayers that we should subsidize our Private schools.

If parents want to (providing the schools accept their kids) they have the freedom to enroll their child in a Private school. They must pay the costs required for that choice. A government handout to these Private schools isn't going to make them a more competitive option in education, and is simply bad governmental policy.

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