Comments about ‘Pro-voucher group may be breaking law’

How about how the UEA is handing out anti-voucher pamphlets or leaflets in the schools. Is not this also breaking the law? Is this also being investigated by the Attorney General's Office?

This is easy to explain. Pro-voucher supporters don't believe in supporting social institutions, like public schools. "Society is corrupt and public school teachers are just a bunch of liberals trying to indoctrinate our kids!" they scream. They don't believe that there is any social contract or obligation to help other children in the community, it is all about "their" kids. They want no government restrictions on "their" tax money, which must be returned in the form of a voucher. When someone is so egocentric, why would one even think of obeying the law? After all, it's "their" money, isn't it?

I think Frank has been brainwashed by rhetoric from the anti-voucher groups instead of studying the real issues and concerns of those who support vouchers. I've found most in favor of vouchers to be very responsible citizens who care deeply about every member of our society. They recognize that there is more than one way to educate and not every child fits the public system. Those against vouchers seem more interested in perpetuating the system than in the needs of individual children.

Vouchers are really nothing more than an opportunity to shelter one's children from controversial and immoral ideas such as social justice and sexual responsibility. As gagged as public schools are on sex education, a child's more likely to learn about STDs there than at Moroni High.

Yes Frank. It is our money. What do you think the gov't is? Why is it there? Who funds the gov't? That would be all of us Frank.

When I went to South Jordan Middle School in the late nineties it was a haven for drugs, pornography, atheism, and socialism.

Why are you so afraid of people keeping their own money for their own kids? Isn't that the parents responsibility?

Truth Teller....what???
What is Moroni High?
Are you trying to be condescending to LDS homeschoolers?

I think it is sad and unhelpful to resort to mud-slinging and claims of "brain washing" when people feel strongly about their beliefs and opinions. We should offer our respect to both sides and assume the best of each other. That's the only way we can really engage in an intelligent debate over such important and impactful issues.

Personally, I am in favor of a school voucher system. The quality of education provided to ALL of our children deserves to benifit from the impact of competition. Details of how to work it will be much better if we can engage in an intelligent and non-offense-taking dialogue about what the needs are on both sides of the fence.

Turk,
"Drugs, pornography, atheism and socialism"? Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

Alana,
How exactly will vouchers provide competition to public schools?

It doesn't really have much to do with competition, the only difference I have seen between public and private schools is mandatory vs. voluntary parental involvement. If the parents are worried about their kids' education maybe they should volunteer some of their time at the public schools instead of putting them in a private school where it will usually be required. Then there wouldn't have to be this big fight over the vouchers.

Voucher proponents say what public schools need is competition. In sports, teams play by the same rules. That is what makes it fair competition. Voucher schools want to be exempt from the rules and still call it fair competition

The voucher law has been set up so that taxpayer money will go to private schools with....
1)NO thorough annual audit requirements for the first five years
2)NO public financial reporting requirements (GRAMA)
3)NO Core Curriculum requirements. Anything can be taught or not taught.
4)NO teacher training/licensing requirements
5)NO school accreditation requirements
6)NO required days or hours of instruction
7)NO uniform testing requirements
8 NO required protections of, or access to records

This is not fair competition.

The taxpayers of Utah deserve accountability for the use of their money and the education of their children! The voucher law is a law that subjects our children to an experiment without critical safeguards, and takes scarce money away from public schools.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS PUBLIC MONEY
PRIVATE SCHOOLS PRIVATE MONEY

Well said, Alana. No matter which side of the debate you fall on, being respectful to the opinions of others is the best way to persuade others to your point of view. Rallying others to your cause by demonizing the opposition just means that both sides harden their positions, but there's no net change in support. As I'm still trying to make up my mind on this issue, I'm hoping that civil discourse will prevail.

jackhp,
Are you going to tell me that these are not serious problems in our public schools? Are you attempting a joke?
My question to you is: Why are you still defending a broken ineffective school system?

My children attend private school because I don't believe in the ability of the public school system to provide a solid education. I myself was failed by the public school system in Utah and had to work very hard to overcome the damage done and become successful. The truth is, the public school system allows teachers and administrators to stereotype and categorize students into groups that may not always be accurate and because of this the students opportunities are greatly limited. Not only have I experienced this myself, but I am currently watching it happen in my own neighborhood between a teacher who lives next door to me and our neighbor across the street who does not belong to the same faith as the teacher next door. Here's the shocker. I DO NOT support the voucher program. I believe if a private school education is important to you, then you should do what YOU have to do to make that happen, even if that means you work 2,3 jobs! If you aren't happy with the education your child gets then find a way to pay for private school or get elected to the school board and fight for better.

This is my first year of being involved in a public school and it is a joke. Already I have been "required" to pay 20.00 for my son to have food experiences. Then later, after I paid, I am told that it is just a donation. Then I have to participate in silly fundraisers and fork out another 20.00. Plus they want my husband and I join the PTA for $3 a piece, I did not. Then they want other "donations" of tissues, wipes, kleenexes, shirts etc. I also put money into paying for school clothes.
For those who say this voucher law is only for the rich because they are the only ones who can afford it. I am being nickled and dimed by my "free" public education every time I turn around. I think it may actually be cheaper for me to put my child in private school then send him to public school. Please vote for a choice for me and my son.

I don't believe this issue is about education-- I've seen the curriculum taught in these schools and most of it boils down to old wine in new bottles. The same things are being taught in public schools, at different intervals. There might be an achievement difference between public and private, but that is only because the parents of private schoolers have given their children a better chance before Kindergarten begins. I believe this issue centers around safety and in some cases racism. Why do those who have social phobias have a right to be medicated with our tax dollars? Private schools are ivy towers in which severely delusioned children live and are educated daily.

Dear Dean of Ed.

Why are my kids in private school 2 grade levels ahead of the same aged kids in public school in math and science and 1 grade level ahead in language skills?

JJ

Turk,
Some yes, some no.

Drugs? Maybe in some places but I can't say that it's the huge epidemic you make it out to be.

Porno? Come on? Seriously?

Atheism? I take offense to that suggestion.

Socialism? Red-baiting is so eighties.

I don't believe the entire system is broken or ineffective and your little jabs aren't doing anything to convince me otherwise. Would you like to try again?

Marissa,
Your comment doesn't do anything to make me want to support vouchers. But it does make me determined to support FULLY funding public education so that you aren't "nickled and dimed" any more.

Thanks for bringing these things to my attention. Hopefully, by the time my kids are in school it won't be an issue anymore.

@Ada

Actually you are wrong. The sad truth is that everyone is focusing upon HB148 when there IS AN AMENDED HB174. The Amended bill addresses all of those.

1. There is an audit
2. There is reporting
3. There is a core (has to be approved)
4. There is testing to measure progress and reproted to the State Board
5. Schools must be accredted
6. Hiring of teachers taught at these private schools are clearly laid out in HB174.

Stop looking at the OLD Voucher law and read the Amended one. Its like trying to file today's taxes with the tax code of 1920.

There is nothing more than plain ignorance on the anti-voucher camp.

RE DEAN:

You are exactly correct. It's not about education. This is about not wanting their kids to have to go to school with your kids. Vouchers smack of elitism, racism and top-down class warfare. Sadly, most people won't realize this until it's too late.