Deseret News | Church issues apology for massacre

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Church issues apology for massacre

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Liz | 2:46 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I am concerned by the lack of tolerance on both sides reflected in these comments. I am also wary of the word "fanatic." I love my church. It has done nothing but bless my life and encourage me to serve others, never hurt. I believe the people involved in MMM were tragically misled by their LOCAL leaders because all of them were angry and afraid. At any rate, I do not follow blindly. I believe all of us are accountable for our actions, hopefully in this life, but always to God after this life. We cannot blame our leaders for our actions because we each have a conscience to discern right from wrong. I have a choice as to what I believe and to whom I listen. I allow all others the same choice. I would hope that if some other person in authority told me to do something obviously horrible, that I would follow my heart and not comply.

Rex | 8:39 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Either Brigham Young and George A. Smith knew about and condoned the harassment of the Fancher party or they did not. That must be sorted out by professional historians and scholars, not by the uninformed opinions of newspaper readers.

What historians and everyone else must agree is that the LOCAL LDS Church leaders - the Stake President and his counsellors - are the ones who carried out this horrific murder. That is fact with which nobody can argue.

But the issue is the same either way. The Temple recommend (and the doctrine of the Church) is that local Church leaders are "called of God" and they are to be "sustained" and "obeyed."

As such, in one sense it does not really matter whether or not Brigham knew or condoned - in the final analysis, members MUST NOT BLINDLY FOLLOW THEIR CHURCH LEADERS. And that runs contrary to what the official Church demands. This is a problem no matter how you slice it...

Yankee Mormon | 8:51 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Come on people. LDS history as we know it likely does not reflect absolute reality. The problem lies in the fact that there tend to be only two types of accounts - Mormon and Anti-Mormon. In order to be considered accurate, history needs to be first hand accounts by those who are not swayed by beliefs for or against what is being accounted.

Even when something is written down by someone with no alterior motives, it is not necessarily correct. Five people witness the same event and write about it and you end up with five different accounts with varying contradictions. How do you know which was the most accurate? You don't!

All history has to be looked at with a grain of salt. Published accounts of Joseph Smith's account of the first vision have many contradictions. Does this mean Joseph Smith told the story differently each time? Did people innacurately capture what he told them? Could be either.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 9:07 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I have to agree with Liz. And when it comes to following local leaders over the general teachings of the church or scriptures your on your way to trouble, and that goes for any church. Many of these past members probably didnt think long and hard about the similarity of what they were doing to the evil tribes in the book of mormon who marked their faces before they killed their own kind. I would like to express my regret for what happened, but I too dont feel its my right to take credit, apologize, or make restitution for it.

William | 9:43 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Where was the actual word apology used in the "apology"? They regret. That is it. They regret what happened but this is not a real apology.

Scott | 9:57 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I don't think the Federal Government will do nearly as good a job at taking care of this property as the LDS will. The LDS have a good track record for maintaining their historic sites. This site should stand as a reminder of what over zealousness can lead to for all generations.

To all non mormons! | 10:01 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Coming from a member of the church i would just like to say i agree with all of you! The members of the church here arguing with you are just afraid to admit for once the church isnt perfect! They are racist, judgemental, and liars! They come off as perfect people who think they will be the only ones saved by god! But honestly look at them they they judge everyone but themselves and never accept responsibility for anything! Their leaders are supposedly picked by god but their leaders are like 90 and above and can barely talk! Just would like to give my condolences to Hinkley about the loss of his dear friend Faust! Maybe they will replace him with and african american!?!? LOL WHO AM I KIDDING!

So.Id. Liz | 10:11 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Liz--your statement-- I believe the people involved in MMM were tragically misled by their LOCAL leaders because all of them were angry and afraid.

Trouble followed the Mormons wherever they went. Polygamy and treachery was their hallmark. The King James Bible says plural marriage was, and is wrong. I had an ancestor who participated in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I doubt your claim that everyone was angry, mislead and afraid. He was a bishop at the time, or soon after. He started a town near Cedar City in 1858, the spring after MMM. He was in GOOD standing with Brigham or Brigham would not have allowed him to do so. He also had some of the murder victims items in his possession for personal use or use by his wife(s). This indicates no remorse.
I am not proud of this fact, but he had his own "free will" as you and I do. I say all this to caution everyone not to follow blindly what anyone says, prophet or priest ---

The citizens of the 1850's were not tolerant.
Golden tablets? Seer Stones? Shafts of Light? Meso-America? Lost Hebrews? Lamanites and Nephites? DNA evidence? The Mormons church continues to believe in D & C 132 proselytized by Joesph Smith promoting plural marriage; celestially now. (exception, locations Utah and Arizona)

Point is, what the Mormon organization teaches is worlds apart from the way Bible based churches teach. I was raised by my LDS pioneering mother, and father. All I can say to all Mormons is read the KJ bible and "outside your own historians" history of all that surrounds our (your) church. Then compare. You will have to allay your programmed defensiveness as I did.

I hate to think where my ggg grandfather is now.

Rex | 10:16 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

To Liz and Anonymous,
Now imagine if you really were in John D. Lee's position: Your local Church leaders (who are also the MILITIA leaders) have commanded you to manipulate the Indians to carry out this deceptive plan so as to establish "plausible deniability." Because this is a military order, if you refuse, you will be killed.

But the Indians are not stupid, so they insist that you make sure some Mormon whites participate, too. And they insist in such a way that you understand completely that you will be killed if you try to trick them.

Damned if you do; damned if you don't. And that is why John D. Lee was originally exonerated from his involvement. He was in a no-win situation. Only 20 years later, when it was convenient for Brigham Young to do so, did he betray John D. Lee and another atrocity was committed!

Alma | 10:16 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Thank goodness the apology has been made. Now I need to understand why John Lee had all his Priesthood blessings restored in 1961 after having been convicted of mass murder of more than 200 innocents. I quote Juanita Brooks:

For more than a hundred years, the families of John D. Lee have borne the opprobrium of the massacre alone. For that reason, they have welcomed every effort to probe the question; certainly no truth could be worse than the stories to which they were subjected. Now they have special cause to rejoice, for on April 20, 1961, the First Presidency and the Council of Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints met in joint council, and: "It was the action of the Council after considering all the facts available that authorization be given for the reinstatement to membership and former blessing to John D Lee." Word of this was sent out to members of the family, and on May 8 and 9, the necessary ordinances were performed in the Salt Lake Temple. A complete record is in the files of the Latter-day Saints Genealogical Society.

Bill | 11:19 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Alma,
Thank you for this quote. I was actually trying to find it myself.

There can be no doubt that, over the years, the LDS Church (with supposedly inspired leaders, who should be able to use their clairvoyance to know the truth) has gone back and forth in a puzzling and inexplicable way regarding John D. Lee.

If the trump shall give an uncertain sound, who shall rally to the call?

Anonymous | 11:59 a.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Wow the amount of responses on this are enormous. It is obvious to me that the specific subject is far from the issue here. Everyone is taking the opportunity to generally either support or bash the LDS church. Its really war all over again-- in words. Move on with your day and just be as good of a person as you can be.

Its too bad we have to sit and waste time fighting like this- nobody is proving anything. I read many of these comments and nobody has changed my mind, but I did waste a bunch of time and ended up feeling kind of depressed!

The article iteself is not a problem, its the responses! Isn't the point of apologies and forgivness to move on find peace and learn from the mistake? If we sit here and argue we haven't learned too much.

Disgusted | 12:28 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

To all non-mormons:

1)How dare you say all mormons are "racist, judgemental, and liars!" Have you met every single mormon out there? Have you ever looked around to see how many people in this world are that exact same way, yet they are Protestant, Buddhist, Muslim, etc? Each person can believe and act as they want - its called free agency. So if you've come across someone in the LDS church who has acted this way, I am sorry for you and as a mormon myself I hope I never come across that person! They are a pathetic human being and have not a caring bone in them if they tear down the people in their lives that are different than them. Truly pathetic!!

2) "They come off as perfect people who think they will be the only ones saved by god!" is a pathetic comment from someone who apparently does not know about the LDS teachings. Your comment was very close minded and in a sense pathetic. We have blacks and asians and people from all over the world, from every culture imaginable serving as great, prominant leaders in our church! As for the leaders that are 90 and above....they have been serving as our amazing leaders for years! Some for 30-40 years. People age and as they age they become more wise and I am proud to follow them!

3) The LDS religion is not wrong or corrupt. But I would fully agree that some people who claim to be LDS are. I have come across them many times in my life and I am sickened to be associated with people who are so hypocritical. They make those amazing members of our church look bad. People always see the negative and never the positive.

Wes | 3:00 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Although the MMM took place 150 years ago, the conspiracy and failure of the present day church to acknowledge the truth regarding the event was still deserving of an apology. The people who did the killing are not alive today, that much is certain, but ever since that day there have been members of the church that have been guilty of knowing the truth and denying it to the public. It is responsible and brave of the church to finally come forward, especially if it helps some of the victims' descendants sleep easier at night. And from reading these comments, it sounds as though some members of the church are more at peace now as well.

Show Me State | 3:23 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I want to Thank You Mormons for moving on from Missouri. Better?

mn | 4:24 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Who's going to apologize for September Dawn? I want my ten dollars back.

MMM Descendant Fred | 4:31 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Let me preface this by saying I am a descendant of MMM survivor, Louisa Dunlap and an evangelical Christian. After reading the article and comments, I wanted to chime in with my $.02.

I'm curious whether this apology was motivated as a response to the release of "September Rain." Sure, it was done on the 150th anniversary of the MMM, but the cynic in me says the timing is somewhat suspicious.

As previously pointed out, I can understand the word "apology" being omitted to avoid culpability and potential legal action. This statement released the Paiutes from responsibility while maintaining the integrity of Young and the LDS leadership at the time. However, since leadership includes taking responsibility for the actions of one's underlings, directly or indirectly, at least some of the responsibility must be on Mr Young's shoulders.

Am I satisfied with this statement? Yes. Whether the decision was made locally or by church leaders, this statement admits Mormon instigation removes the finger of blame from the Paiutes.

Did I feel an apology was necessary? No, but I was glad to read about it.

Is this enough? Yes. (But if someone else wants to bother pursuing reparations, I won't refuse a check. Would you?) I didn't suffer because of this, so I don't think the LDS church owes me anything.

As for the fate of the MMM site? I've visited the memorial and the LDS church is doing a fine job of maintaining it. As long as they are willing to continue doing so, I'm comfortable with that. call it a penance if you will. Besides, as has been pointed out, they are doing a better job than the Feds probably would.

to SO ID Liz: I want my family's stuff back (JK)

Wondering | 5:55 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Joseph Smith was a descendant of John Howland and Elizabeth Tilly who came over on the Mayflower. He was Mormon. I also am a descendant of John Howland. I was raised a Catholic and am now a Methodist. George Bush is also a descendant of John Howland. My point is we are all Americans with the same roots. I can't understand why all the bitterness and hatred. I'm sure someone will have a comeback for this perspective. I just hope it isn't a nasty one.

Dan | 6:12 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

To Wondering,
The most important thing you said is that you can't understand. But just because you cannot understand the hurt others are feeling, does not mean their hurt is illegitimate or unjustified or inappropriate. The descendants of the victims of MMM have every right to be hurt and offended, and it is the epitome of arrogant, unChristian, absurdity to demand that they not feel bitter over the wholesale slaughter of their ancestors.

Bob forward and Bob backward | 6:14 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

"Who's going to apologize for September Dawn? I want my ten dollars back"... Bwha.

That is hilarious,

Thanks,

Now I wont bother going to see it..

Herbert | 6:22 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

If the phoney baloney religious organization was really sorry, they would correct their mistake by doing something about it besides saying I'm sorry. It is easy to say I'm sorry abd do nothing but talk. I was here when you terroist invaded my land.
A former TBM Lamanite

Wondering | 6:50 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Dan, I agree with you. They have every right to be hurt. That I understand. But I was not thinking of the victims of MMM or its descendants when I said that. I was refering to those on this blog who instead of offering intelligent input, are saying such mean things to each other. I didn't read all the comments, but what I read was enough to get the picture.

Mormonism | 7:06 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Anyone who commits such atrocities evidently has no moral compass. Anyone in community with someone who commits an atrocity without experiencing revulsion is also without moral compass. The point at which these people decided to carry out these crimes is the point at which they decided to become less than human. I find it bizarre that John Lee participated and was in direct community with Brigham Young.

Additionally, I'm too many of the people seem to have the general impression that Mormons are Christians. They ARE NOT - they're Mormons. Christians are the individuals who believe in the Old and New Testaments as their rule of faith and the creeds laid down over a thousand years ago at Nicea, Chalcedon etc. Mormonism is as close to Christianity as Christianity is to Islam, probably less so. If you're in doubt you should look to the cannonization of the Christian Bible and compare to the Book of Mormon, its creation and the history of Mormonism in general. I find it disconcerting that LDS members deceive others by calling themselves Christians, much like I would be if Wahabi Islamists insisted they were Buddhist. Why?? Weird. Weird.

Dan | 7:10 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Wondering,

I understand your point, and I did not intend to detract from it, simply to ensure we are not being insensitive to the MMM victim descendants.

If there is anything to learn from this it is that religious fervor tends to distort rational and ethical thinking. MMM is clearly an example of that; radical Islam is as well; and the historical record of the human race is filled with examples of how religious zeal has led to distorted thinking, rendering other human beings as sub-human, expendable, alien, non-entities.

Rather than squabble over whose Church is right/true/best/complete, we should be aware that the non-believers are sitting around laughing at how irrational, unethical, and absurd we "believers" are. The track record of the believers is dismal, and faith and the "name of god" has been used to justify the most atrocious violence humans can imagine.

Through dialogue, perhaps we can come to terms with this brutal fact and discuss serious ways to avoid the kind of sectarian, fascist, religio-centric, dogmatic thinking that led to MMM and is, ultimately, at the heart of the contentions manifest in this blog.

But how do you persuade the dogmatists? How can someone who is so absolutely convinced that they are the only "true" or "right" view be convinced otherwise? How much more blood must be spilt before people stop being so absolutely positive about their own views and running rough-shod over others around them?

Anonymous | 7:25 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Christians are the individuals who believe in the Old and New Testaments as their rule of faith and the creeds laid down over a thousand years ago at Nicea, Chalcedon etc....

Boy, those creeds wiped out millions of people, I guess you heard of the dark ages and inquisitions?...

These Mormons only killed 150..

I think I prefer the Mormons.

TTK | 7:45 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

RE: MMM Descendent Fred,

So...? If I go out and kill a bunch of people, and I hold a leadership position in the LDS church, are you saying the prophet should publicly apologize for my actions. Now, I am also a government employee, so should the govenor of my state or the President of the US also apologize since I am one of each of their "underlings"?????

To all the others wondering about saleries. The apostles's saleries come from payment because each are on boards of the various business holdings that the Church owns, not from tithing.

Bob forward and Bob backward | 8:12 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Anonymous, I agree..

Christians should never bring up any numbers of people killed because of their faiths.

If we look at history and modern history,
More people have been killed by Christians for their faith, than any others on the planet..

But I have wondered if it only went up to Bishop Lee,
I read that he was the only one executed by firing squad for the deed, and he was in charge..

Dan | 8:15 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Anonymous,

Take a current history class and leave the 200-year-old, outdated Talmage and BH Roberts history in the trash where it belongs.

Anonymous | 8:26 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Dan,
Just recent history Dan,

I served several years in Vietnam as a Lutheran 'Christian'
We killed 2 million Vietnamese and caused the deaths of 2 million more Cambodians, we called them heathens..Undeclared war..

Don't lecture me on history.. Son.
And you dare bring up 150 and blame it against a religion. Sheeesh..

Take a look at Iraq? Unlawful invasion,
Christians killing thousands of Muslims..

no one important | 8:46 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

it is sad
that a church still supports the daily abuse of women and children,
that no one stands to defend or change the fate of these victims

it is sad
that much attention is paid to a long past occurence
and none to the plight of those who suffer in this moment
at the hands of the faithful self righteous

it is sad indeed

no government, no religion is clean, none is free from error,

how bout concern for those whose silent screams pierce this very night?

super important someone | 9:10 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

It is sad that some feminist nutjob makes unrelated comments on a topic and fails to cite examples on the agenda she is tring to push, all the time trying to wax eloquent, but in the process making herself look like a moron. Sad indeed. Can you hear my screams of agony at such drivel? How long must I endure?

Anonymous | 9:39 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Well, I guess Dan doesn't want to lecture me any more about Christian history,
So I will bid you good people good night..

The only reason this 150 so called 'Mormon' massacre was introduced to the media was because Mr. Romney is running for President..

Guess what Dan?

I am voting for him. heh.

Meadow | 9:51 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

I was recently down in the Meadow area... I spoke with an individual who grew up in Meadow Utah in shadow of the MMM. I asked this individual who is 92 years old what happened at the MMM.

To my surprise...The person counted that the uprising of the MMM was based on the local leadership in the area.

The word that came down directly from this persons grandparents was that the local leadership made some extremely bad decisions.
I just wanted to share this those who wanted a pretty valid source.

The Watcher | 10:33 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just got along? Sure is a nice thought.

Does anyone have any proof or anything that has been released by The Church that says the historical records are closed off to general membership? I'm interested to find out if this really is true or just some "anti-mormon" statement that has filtered down the comment thread.

Most religions in this world, if properly abided by, lead people to live good, honest lives. If someone were to sit down and study the teachings that LDS members live by they would see that there aren't all that many differences between them an Catholics, or Baptists or even Muslims(I've lived among Muslims for many years and good ones don't drink or smoke and are very family oriented.) Many of the beliefs may be different in religions of the world, but most boil down to the "10 Commandments", each with their own additions to those commandments.

Any person in their right mind can't believe that God(assuming they believe in God) will damn people to hell for not being part of a certain religion. As mentioned before, it's God's right to decide that, not ours and he is mercyful. Ignorance is bliss. Someone that lives their life the best they know how wont be held accountable for the things they never learned. So 150 years ago there were some Mormons that didnï¿½t obey the commandments like they were supposed to. Yesterday I read a story about a Catholic priest that molested little boysï¿½ Itï¿½s all the same crap just on a different day. A world full of people that make mistakes. Maybe if we all weren't so critical of others and spent a little more time looking at ourselves things would get better.

John | 10:35 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

As a long time meber born in the church I must say I am disappointed that the church caved to the pressure of a bunch of whiny anti-mormons and apologized for Mountain Meadows. The Saints were driven from Missouri, Ohio, New york, and Illinois. They were sick and tired of having their men beaten, women raped, and children murdered simply for being mormon. Polygamy was required simply because the mobs left very few men alive for the LDS women to marry. The Easterners (many were anti-mormons from Missouri) on that wagon train got a little taste of what the Saints experienced in Missouri. When you rape, murder, and steal the homes of the Saints while they try to live their faith out East, don't expect them to be grateful hosts when you travel through Utah. Our ancestors got a little revenge that day, but sending 120 of them to their maker was probably little comfort for the thousands of faithful men, women and children lost to mobs back East, and also lost on the trek West, which was forced upon them, it wasn't their choice. To apologize to these people makes me sick.

MoJules | 10:51 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007

Thank you Utah for some entertainment, and good laughs, do you know that they have not given the church leaders a raise in the last 30 years, cause it seems like that was what my brother was saying they get paid, back in his anti-Mormon days. And honestly, all the travel that they do, you couldn't pay me enough to do all that, to sit in a plane for hours, getting swollen ankles, jet lag and sleeping in other beds all the time. No thank you, I would not do that constantly, and I would not think that any pay would be worth all the hours of speaking and having people constantly wanting to shake your hand and hug you. These men that are called at their mid-50's to serve full time in the church are very successful businessmen and if there are any stipends, do you think that these men all of a sudden are just going to mooch off of other people? They are not the type of people to do that, they are driven and motivated people, so if they are not working anymore, maybe they are writing books and drawing an income off of that. Even the ones that have passed away still have books that sell, I would think that their children are very self sufficient and don't need support from a deceased parent, so maybe those funds are donated for costs to those who have walked away from their career which was (I am sure), a lot more than they are living on now. I know that my tithing is not used for that, but how much of my taxes is supporting people who are on welfare or going bankrupt or losing their home? Now that is something to gripe about, more than 10%

So. Id. Liz/MMM Decendant Fred | 12:43 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

MMM Decendant Fred
to SO ID Liz: I want my family's stuff back (JK)

Hello Fred. (JK)

I don't have anything from Louisa Dunlap, but if I did, you would get it.. The items identified were by Nancy Safronia Cates, age 5. (I think that was correct spelling.) My indecorous ggg Grandfather John Willis took her home from the massacre site. She wrote later in life she was able to identify some of her mothers clothes that the Willis family used. She stayed with Willis until the next spring when they moved to a town he started in 1858; Toquerville. She was eventually taken back to her next of kin in Arkansas about 2 years later.

I do have a cheese straightener, a fly swatter, and some shoe trees you can have if interested. :)

Thanks

Alan | 1:18 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

Hey, full marks to Deseret News, the LDS paper. A few years ago they wouldnt have even published remarks like this!!!!

Right thing to do. | 8:02 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

Those that would cite Brighams's involvement in the MMM are not relying on known fact, they're making assumptions. There is no evidence of any order from Brigham to commit a crime like this. I feel Brigham would have never approved the murder of dozens of men, women, and children. I believe that if the perpetrators of this crime felt they were acting under direction of Brigham then they misunderstood or exageratted any direction that was given. I believe this is the reasonable approach when we simply do not know all the details. Obviously the church was responsible at least as far as local leadership was involved for the event. They should apologize. This was the right thing to do. It would be difficult and innappropriate to apologize for Brigham's fault when we are not sure if he was directly involved.

Calvin Arnason | 8:23 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

Revelation from Hollywood: 150 years the true church variously sits on this story, obstructs justice, lays blame with the Indians, contends that no one can know what happened, and begs that the story just go away. And then Hollywood makes a dumb movie and within days there is an apology for those local leaders down south ... ... moral authority? General Authority?

town heathan | 8:58 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

I've sent in 3 different comments...none rude, but to the point. None have been allowed on this site.

Typical LDS censorship. And yes...this site is LDS owned...

If I'm being censored....imagen what you are being told.

MMM Decendant Fred | 9:23 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

So Id Liz: Thanks for the offer of the MMM related items. That was really kind of you, but I wasn't serious about it. I apologize to you and anyone that may have thought I was.

(JK)= Just kidding! I was just being sarcastic and had to abbreviate because I had been so verbose earlier. :-)

FRED / So Id Liz | 9:41 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

Fred, No need to apologize. I knew you were kidding, although I didn't know what (JK) was. I will use it in the future. :)
My Best---mb

chad | 10:16 a.m. Sept. 13, 2007

Sincere apologies are always a good step toward reconciliation between persons, groups and/or nations. The only thing that really bothers me here is that for over 150 years the LDS Church as disavowed any responsibility to what happened at the MMM. By apologizing, does it mean that someone from "The One True Church" actually lied?

amazed | 12:14 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007

Looks like censorship again the messages that have been taken off...lol
How is it for the "get over it" crowd they have this doctrine to be able to judge when enough time is expired for folks to greive over tragedies. Does mormom have the golden watch that went away with the golden tables that allows them to tell us when we should get over the Murders of relatives and confiscation of property like hill's AFB from my Grandfather who was excommunicated because of his distain for the continual changing of the Book of Mormons? Amazing, is it 5 years,10,50,100 or can you tell me when we need to tell those folks in NYC to get over the bombing...somebodies who wasn't even envolved is sorry and they should get over it...O the mystries of Mormonism

Doug Barber | 2:48 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007

I'm skeptical that much good comes from people apologizing for (or whining about) things that their parents did. I'm even more skeptical that much good comes from people apologizing for things done by ancestors so remote that they never even met them, let alone knew them.

The Mountain Meadows Massacre deserves careful, dispassionate historical research which aims, first, to reconstruct the points of view of all of the participants, second, to determine who did what, and third, to interpret what the actors meant by what they did.

Only after that spadework has been done as thoroughly as possible, can intelligent judgments be formed regarding the morality of the various acts and actors.

I see no need for the vast majority of the current generation of LDS to apologize for their contributions to this process, though the "John" who posted at 10:35 p.m. Sept. 12, 2007 could probably (and almost certainly will not) issue a meaningful apology.

Alaska | 2:55 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007

What about the Indians viewpoint?

Its a sad chapter in American/Utah history.

I feel sorry for the families, who lost young children on both sides of this terrible incident.

we didn't start the fire! | 5:23 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007

I just have to say that when my friends ask about mormons..i just refer them to the two newspapers sites for reading of comments..also I wasn't there when the constitution was signed either but I sure do admire george, jackson lincoln on my dollar bills so i think i will apologize for not being in selma, alabama either or when utah was given it's name and as far as lookin back..everyone does as there is always a starting pt. regardless so may all your jouneys be good , much is sacrificed on all sides with the greatest being LOVE!

labeau | 5:43 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007

I would like reparation for my relatives losing their land back east, I figure 100 million dollars should cover it.
I will apologize for hating anti-Mormons and born agains(samething), because of the hate towards my faith.
I will apologize for global warming, and my carbon foot print, which isn't as large as my food imprint.
I apologize for not wearing white shirts to church,and sometimes reading non-church books in church(hid in said church book).
I apologize for not going to sunday school(still hate it), and never will go.
I apologize for hating the bulls for beating the Jazz.
I feel better now.

Anonymous | 5:51 p.m. Sept. 13, 2007

Amazed:
Does mormom have the golden watch that went away with the golden tables that allows them to tell us when we should get over the Murders of relatives and confiscation of property like hill's AFB from my Grandfather who was excommunicated because of his distain for the continual changing of the Book of Mormons? I am sure you meant disdain, and your g-father owned Hills AFB property?
Wow! you covered more ground into that one paragraph than I read in the Book of Mormon- from page 600 BC to 112 BC. And a golden watch? Was that spring loaded or Quartz? Sheeesh...

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