Deseret News | Life and the border: Get-tough approach

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Life and the border: Get-tough approach

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Compassion at a price | 12:23 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

While I don't believe that illegal immigrants should be given amnesty, I also don't believe that we could possibly kick out 12 million people. The answer lies somewhere in between.

By Jackie | 12:25 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me... all I ask is that you respect me as a human being."

HATCH & BENNET | 12:36 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

instead of posting a comment email your congressman to make stand a work on a solution to this issue

Comments continue below

Tim | 2:07 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Why is this country spending so much time and effort debating something that should not have been an issue?
The reason is because our government representatives are being paid by special interest groups to legitimize their relatives (in the case of La Raza, MECHA, etc.) and their slaves (in the case of WalMart, McDonald's, and almost every other global corporation that couldn't care less about our home). In other words, the only reason this is an issue is because our government is corrupt. Eighty plus (I think more) of AMERICAN CITIZENS believe we should stop this criminal invasion of our country and I agree. Apparently, the only way to stop the invasion is to replace our representation with people that we can control. We need contracts with our representatives that have teeth. We need to be able to say, "You agree, in good faith, to introduce and vigorously support legislation that protects our country from foreign invaders or immediately forfeit your office." "You agree, in good faith, to uphold your "Pledge of Allegiance" to your fellow American Citizens and function in their best interest or immediately forfeit your office."

What is the Pledge of Allegiance?
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I promise my loyalty to the other CITIZENS of my country,(you can't be loyal to a piece of cloth and a Republic is just a group of citizens-almost every species of animal makes this type of pact for protection against common enemies). We make this promise so that we will REMAIN INDIVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all of our CITIZENS.

It's time for them to go. They knew they were wrong when they came.

Susan | 3:45 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Why should my taxes be used to educate the children of those who are breaking the law?

Citizen | 6:18 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

She's been here 10 years...and she doesn't yet speak the language. And she broke in. And she's using her children as pawns, leverage, to gain legal status. Cry all you want and tell me it's about the kids. I've had a gut full. The "improvements" on the border patrol are laughable. The agents are even allowed to enforce the law. They're jailed if they do--look at Campeon and Ramos. Sending the illegals back to their countries would cost far less than keeping them here. Why do these people have more protection from the Constitution that citizens? Why can they protest under the Mexican flag and it's protected free speech, but the rest of us huddle and whisper because we get a negative reception for having opinions on the matter? Argh. Who can I elect that can do the job?

us citizen | 6:26 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

illegal alien attitude = break the law, continue to exploit the system.

American attitude = complete and total deportation of 12-20 million law breakers that are illegally sucking the system dry.

Tired of it all | 6:32 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I am saddened by the Mexican government who refuses to control their citizen and then says it is Americas fault because we pay more to our workers.
We must apply enough political pressure to Mexican leaders so they make the decision to handle the problem at their borders and not allow the illegal immigration to continue.
As for the millions of illegas already here: THEY MUST BE PHYSICALLY REMOVED FROM AMERICA AND THEN FOLLOW U.S. LAW TO RE-ENTER THE COUNTRY.

Utah Ute | 6:36 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I have been following the three part article on immigration. Seems to me thatabout 156 commentors are totally against illegal aliens breaking the law and about 2 commentators are in favor of illegal aliens breaking the law.
I guess the citizens of Utah have spoken, now lets do something about it!!!!

Jeff in slc | 6:43 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The attitude of illegals that their only choice is to continue to break the law and hide while doing it is disgusting. It is clear that they have no intention of trying to be law abiding citizens, therefore kick every single illegal out of the country untill they learn respect for U.S. law and then come here legally.

Terry | 6:46 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I have a Mexican sister-in-law. She married my brother 35 years ago, She has always maintained that the western United States is mexican territory and they will take it back politically,economically and socially. I hpoe see is not right. This attitude makes for interesting family relations.

Anonymous | 7:29 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

SAn Diego County spends 101 million dollars in taxs on ILLEGALS each year. Thgis figure is from the County Board of Supervisors. Have your conty do a break down for you. This is only county money. There is than the drain on the State and Federal Budgets. DEPORT AND PROSECUe

OneVote | 7:43 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Chris Cannon needs to read his mail. The people do not want amnesty, nor do they want our laws trampled on by illegal aliens. We are tired of identity theft, unlicensed/uninsured drivers, and huge numbers of unassimilated third world illegal aliens.
They are here for the money and the freebies. They lack allegiance to our nation. It is up to us to make our land less attractive to them.
That, Mr. Cannon, is why you are stuck in your dilemma of political will.
We welcome those who come here legally.

bubba | 7:49 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The Illegals Laugh At The USA Because They Know That Imigration Cant Do Anything , Because Of The Gridlock So Lets Either Get Of The Pitty Wagon And Start A Massive Deportation? And Quit Babbing These People.,

MS | 7:53 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I used to be sad. No longer This whole issue is just plain maddening. Deseret News doesn't get it any more than our government. Another "poor them" article. Throw out Hatch, Cannon and the other legislators who are soft on this issue. I've written them and get back their standard pre-fabricated letters trying to soothe my anger, implying that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm sick of them. Time to elect someone who listens to those who put them in office.

As for "Maria" -- if she can't speak the language after 10 years, she doesn't belong here. These people really do believe they have the "right" to be here without our permission. If we don't do something, and soon, our sovereignty will be non-existant. The illegals make life difficult for the good folks who have come to our country the right way.

Ok, Des. News, how about some articles from other point of view? I thought that's what legitimate journalism was.

Anonymous | 7:54 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

My Hispanic neighbor is angered by all of the illegals that enter this country. Her view is that they take jobs away from her people who are here legally, and have been for a hundred years.

Europe is having the same problem with people from the East. As here, many of the illegals work hard and want a better life. It is the few bad apples that cause social problems, but the economic problems are more complex.

West Jordan resident

Anonymous | 7:59 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The illegal aliens are are only here to build the houses Americans won't build.

kipster | 8:07 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I'm sorry life is hell in Mexico. I'm sorry people are starving to death in Africa. I'm sorry people kill each other in the name of religion. I'm sorry I get a ticket and fine every time I'm caught not wearing my seatbelt; But, come on, the law is the law. They shouldn't be here illegally. Nor should a baby born on US soil to an illegal be an American citizen.

Law abiding citizen | 8:11 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

My grandparents came to the US legally. They complied with every law and requirement so my parents could live here in the USA. What a slap in the face to grant illegal immigrants amnesty. They must earn the right to be in this country just like others have in the past - by complying with the laws of this country. Learn ENGLISH - that's what made America a great country. The USA IS NOT MEXICO.

Tdoff | 8:14 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

If you want respect don't break the law. Your being here is depressing our wages and making it harder for our children to get a decent paying job, raising our insurance rates, costing us $millions more for education and every other govt provided service. Not to mention the competition you create for all other essential goods, thus raising those prices for the rest of us. If you want respect from us go home and throw out your corrupt politicians and make your own country a better place. Your expectations for a better life should be there, not illegally entering here and expecting us to change for you.

Any of our politicians that don't understand that should be summarily tossed out on their ears.

alone | 8:37 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I appear to be alone in the wilderness according the comments made in this section. Let me say at the beginning that I am not "for" breaking the law, but sometimes we do need to take a closer look at laws that for peoples sake may benefit all. I agree that Hatch and others that have been in congress for more than thirty years and have done nothing about the immigration should be taken out of office. If they had done something about it when they first went in I wouldn't be facing the the situation I am in now. Some fifteen years ago my daughter fell in love with a young man which I had no control over and they were married. They have two children and Her husband who is hispanic and has been working and paying taxes and school fees for that amount of time, and does speak english. He first applied for legal papers in 1999 and the government has not moved ahead as fast as I would like to have seen them do. Now there is a chance he will be deported. If he is sent home then what is to happen to my child and grandchildren? Do they have to go with him and why should they be punished? Do the children stay here alone with their mother and she become the bread winner or am I supposed take care of all of them while he is sent home? Now I know there seems to be one answer for all of these questions for most of you but then most of you do not seem to have any heart for the situation. As usual, it is all about money.....Just an intersted person

Andino | 8:49 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Shame on us for letting people and entities (like the deseret MORNING NEWS--which used to be the official newspaper of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints [oh how I mess those old days]), allow the gullible masses to go along with their propoganda. That's what this is--PURE PROPOGANDA!

Thank God I'm not that gullible.

Abraham Lincoln once spoke that the only way this nation would perish would have to be from within. When lawlessness is upheld, you're seeing anarchy in its early stages and this nation start to crumble.

This third-tier local paper (whose survival is dependent on faithful Mormons who think the paper it still is the Prophet's voice) has become a soapbox for wrong thinking.

I agree with the majority of others here. This woman, for whom I don't sympathise, refuses to abide by the law and even integrate into our society and culture, then Adios!

Whoopsie | 9:02 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Hey Tim, You forgot part of the Pledge.

Even if you don't like it. When you use it you should use the entire thing

Tdoff | 9:13 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Why did your son-in-law come here illegally? Why does he not want to go home? Why do you not want him to go home? It seems from your letter that it really IS all about money. Maybe you're not so alone after all.

Carol | 9:18 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

My dad came here from Denmark 100 years ago. He signed allegience to the United States of America. He learned the English language. He fought in WW1 and received wounds he lived with, and cared for, the rest of his life.

In other words he came in legally and became an American citizen, supporting his adopted country paying a high price to do so.

When there is conflict over whether or not the laws can be enforced, much less will be, chaos is the outcome. When judges and others no longer enforce the laws but create them as they go, we are in for a real ride with no good outcome for any one.

payaso | 9:27 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

"We know we cannot send back 12 million illegal immigrants to their native country. The economy would collapse."

Same arguments slave holders used to justify slavery in the 1800's in the South---

MEB | 9:36 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I may be completely wrong on this, but as I read the article it becomes painfully obvious that the Deseret Morning News is interviewing people who are confessing that they are illegal immigrants, and are running from the law. By not turning these individuals in, aren't the aiding and abetting a criminal? If they turn them in to DHS, and nothing is done, that is a different issue. I don't believe they have even done their due diligence as citizens.

So, who at the DMN is accountable, and how do we turn them in to the law?

(I truly doubt that DMN will actually allow this comment).

Anon | 9:42 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The majority of illegal immigrants in Utah are good people that pay their taxes and contribute to society in their own small way. Of course there are the few bad apples, just as we have our own citizens that are bad apples. I agree that they shouldn't have come illegally, but I don't think we need to be so closed minded that we say they all need to be kicked out. I know many illegal latin families that work hard, pay their taxes, contribute to society, and love the U.S. They have never recieved money or asked for money from the U.S. for aid. These are only examples, and there are more examples for the other side as well. I only ask that we try not to be so racist and stereotype all illegal latins as "the plague" of the United States.

girl | 9:51 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

It boils down to this. Illegal immigrants don't have a citizens rights. Send them home. Let them come LEGALLY. My cousins have dual citizenship in Mexico and the US because there mother was born in mexico. Nothing against them. My Dad employes immigrants because they will do the work. Let the pay rise if it has to. Supply and demand. If they would come legally, they could get here faster. Illegal immigrants are essentially cutting in line.

Jo | 9:51 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I think "Alone" did a great job proving the point that the selfish choices illegal immigrants make affect many people. Because her son-in-law made the choice to come into the USA illegally, there is now a family who could be torn apart. It is interesting to me that instead of holding him accountable for his bad choices, there is an attitude that America should overlook the fact that he broke the law. I think it is too bad that there are children in this situation who could suffer because this man didn't obey the law, however; why should the rest of us be responsible to bear the burden of his selfishness? He and anyone else who have crossed the border illegally need to go back and take the steps neccessary to return legally, if that means his wife needs to make the decision to stay or go with him, so be it. The way I see it, you can argue all you want by telling sob stories but it all boils down to the fact that they are here illegally and therefore should NOT be here. If someone can't even enter the country under the laws, how can we expect them to EVER respect and obey our laws?

JWK | 9:53 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The problem on both sides of the border is money. The corruption in Mexico and the greed here in this country.

Ultimately, Mexico needs another revolution, and perhaps we need one also.

The issue here is the sovereignty of the United States. As long as we permit our laws to be broken then they will continue to be broken. We may not be able to depart 20 million people but if we made it harder to find jobs by fining businesses that hire them then they will go home.

If we deny their children born here citizenship then they will not come here to have babies.

Once we get a hold on the border then we can discuss other options.

However, our lawmakers want to take the easy approach and just grant amnesty, which is only a temporary solution that creates more problems.

There are those who say we must be racist if we oppose illegal immigration but what we want is legal immigration and good citizens. This problem is not only because of illegal Hispanic immigration but also Chinese, Russian, Middle Eastern, and other illegal immigrants.

We must make our voices known. Call and write your Congressional representatives. If they don't listen, then vote in those that will listen.

retired law enforcment | 10:04 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

If we can't enforce current laws, how can we - as voters - expect our politicians to enfore any harsh provisions that may be included in "compreshensive" immigration (read that AMNESTY) reform they may pass?

Sadly, we are no longer a nation of laws, but of political corectness.

lvman | 10:19 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The reason I have no heart or sympathy for situations described by alone is because america is a land of rules and laws that apply equally to all people. If you don't understand how wonderful this is, go live in Mexico for a year. The truth is, any American can marry anyone from anywhere in the world and bring them to the USA as long as they meet the requirements of the law. I have done this myself. What this means is the person bringing the person to the USA has to apply to bring the person to the USA. The primary requirement is that this person must have to have a job with sufficient income to support whoever you are bringing and it cannot be a marriage sham that someone is using to immigrate. After sitting at the INS and seeing the people who were supposedly married, marriage fraud is a lot more common that you would imagine. Once approved, the person comming to the USA must submit petition and in essence, must not be a criminal and not have an incurrable contagious disease. In my case, the process took about 5 months. On the other hand, if you choose to ignore the law, or if you don't meet the requirements of the law, you get what alone describes. I have absolutely no heart or sympathy for the law breakers when I personally know how easy it is if you do it the legal way. Perhaps alone's daughter should sneak into Mexico so that she can be with her family. I wonder what rights and sympathy she will enjoy there as an illegal immigrant.

elliot m | 10:25 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Twenty million people didn't board buses and cross the border at the same time, and they wont be forced onto buses and sent back at the same time. Turn off the incentives such as, free health care, free education, plentiful jobs, and unending social programs, and they will return to Mexico on their own. Then maybe the critical mass will be enough to force Mexico to create opportunities there.

AndiMedi | 10:28 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The Gov't estimates that 408,000 illegal immigrants settle in the US each of the last several years and immigration reform would have provided about 400,000 more visas per year, yet was defeated by the vocal opposition of many of the people decrying illegal immigration on this message board and elsewhere.

Wouldn't it be better if the people coming for jobs had visas, background checks, used their own identities and worked above board so that they could provide for (and be united with) their families? It would decrease the blackmarket significantly, promote integration, and enhance national security immeasurably.

Unfortunately, the opponents of illegal immigration are also the opponents of legal immigration and have led us into this double-bind where we now have a domestic workforce growing slower than our economy, yet only strictly limited ways to come here legally, especially from LatAm. Under current law, we provide 5,000 visas for the low-skill immigrant visa category for the entire country for the entire year. A nation with such a rich history of welcoming immigrants can and should do better.

Sick and Tired | 10:28 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I am getting so angry at the sense of entitlement other countries seem to have. Is America supposed to take care of everone? I think helping others is admirable, but not when they are taking our money and spitting in our face. So many countries that we help hate us, and they expect more and more money from us, as they badmouth us.
I cannot believe the gall of the Hispanics who march around carrying the Mexican flag and demanding to stay in our country. If they want to be here they should show some respect.
We as a family own our own business and can barely afford to take our kids to the dentist sometimes, yet we always owe an astronomical amount of taxes. Our taxes are helping these ingrates.
We need to get the situation under control before we are the ones on welfare because they have ruined our economy.

Kia | 10:31 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

I don't know about anyone else, but for me it's not a racist issue (I have family members who came to the country legally), and it's only slightly an economic issue (although I, too, am sick to death of supporting and educating illegal immigrants, and watching my own children's education and access to health care suffer!). For me, it's a criminal issue. I guess I just have a real problem with anyone whose first act upon approaching our border is to commit a crime, ie: crossing illegally. Why should we expect such a person to respect any of our other laws? It's no wonder there is such a shocking, staggering rate of crime committed by these people who have no regard for our law in the first place. Also, if they don't value their own nation, how can we expect them to have any national pride in ours? If they want a better life, they should STAY WHERE THEY ARE, and work to improve the economy or living conditions in their own countries. If they're too lazy to do that, we don't want them here either. I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for criminals. My sympathy is limited to victims.

"alone": If your son-in-law hadn't broken the law in the first place, you wouldn't find yourself in this situation. Your predicament is his fault. You and your grandchildren are VICTIMS of this CRIMINAL, and of your daughter's bad judgement. It's time for your daughter to deal with her mistake, stand on her own two feet, and make things right. You should absolutely turn the son-in-law over to Immigration and let him be deported, before those children are raised with the idea that illegal activity is acceptable.

Heartless people... | 10:52 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Walk a mile in the shoes of another...(unless you don't like their shoes)

Love Thy Neighbor (only if convenient)

Help and lift one another (unless you don't like their skin color or language)

We are all brothers and sisters (we choose which brothers and sisters we love and which we hate)

All you people disgust me with your judgements and lack of education as to the state of our "LEGAL" immigration system, which is a joke if you try to come legally! I know, my wife's situation is a prime example, and after I explain how it is to others willing to take time to listen, it usually takes them back a step to rethink their hatred and position of judgement!

Student | 10:56 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

For the last 6 years I have spent my summers working side by side with these immigants, many are my good friends.
Yet I struggle every summer to save enough money to pay for tuition and health insurance through the school year, while illegal immigrants get free health care and education grants!
My government donates 30 million dollars to mexico and they can't help defend out borders.
What a bunch of whiners the Mexican gonvernment is.
We need to demand change, contact your congressman.

GVS | 10:56 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

The only reason slavery and child labor was tolerated for as long as it was, was because employers used the same excuse as they do now for illegal alien workers, "We can't find enough workers (for low wages) to pick cotton, or work in our factories." This country, and its employers, were able to learn to get along without slavery and child labor. By the way if the labor laws were enforced against illegal alien employers with half the diligence that it is enforced against employers that break the child labor laws, there wouldn't be a huge illegal immigration problem. Illegal Immigration, like child labor and slavery, will be politically controlled by wealthy employers until the level of disgust reaches the breaking point of the voting citizens, and they do something about it by removing cheap labor incumbents from office, like Bennett and Cannon

Lou Dobbler | 10:59 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Illegal immigration is a complex issue. Our borders need to be secured. Identity theft that results from workers without documentation must be put to an end. The need for labor neds to be met, but only with legal provisions that will protect the wages and benefits of all workers.

With that said, I must denounce the extreme rhetoric from both sides.

Policy in this matter will be one of compromise. The extermists on both sides who want it all their way or no way will only aid to perpetuate a problem that we cannot afford to let linger.

Skye | 11:01 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

My 2 year old son already had his SS # stolen by an illegal immigrant. Illegal aliens are only stealing SS #'s that Americans are unwilling to steal.

I've known far too many hard working immigrants that came here legally. It is an injustice to spit on their honesty and hard work by rewarding illegal immigration.

Jim in accounting | 11:11 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

wow! legal vs. illegal
right vs. wrong
moral vs. immoral
lawfull vs. unlawfull
I have made my decision, as a citizen I will support U.S. law and work for total deportation of all illegal,wrong,immoral and unlawful people living in the United States.

MEB | 11:52 a.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Anonymous | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Two of my daughters have had their social security numbers stolen by illegal alien invaders. One had her credit ruined by age eleven. So yes, I agree with the comment "stealing the identities that Americans won't steal".
Illegal aliens steal from children, the elderly and the dead. How can anyone possibly support this? When it is your grandmother that is kicked off medicare because an illegal invader stole her SS#, I predict you will feel differently.

Bob Pomeroy | 12:13 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007

How things have changed in the less than 100 years when there was so much "illegal immigration" during the years of the red flaggers in Chihuahua. My grandmother (Juanita Heder) and her family, Mitt Romney's family, etc etc walked across that border without any papers and nobody even blinked. Who are these petty souls who invent lies (pay no taxes, etc) to have that which is above another, a chance for a better life? Shame shame

double standard | 12:17 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007

anti sematic feels are behind those angaist immigration when i brake the law i pay a fine DUI = fine i dont get my license revoked for life ie ex Drugs use is ok untill it bemcomes an addiction dont see the same hard stands on these issues

competetion in workplace | 12:30 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007

hidding behind a law that passed in 1996 when immigrant were blamed for the recession in california back then there blamed for crime increase and just about anything that went wrong country has historically done these to minorities they are only willing to look back till 1980 when it comes to immigration the somewhat sucessful american doesnt care as much for this issue only those the bottom end of the classes when they feel the competition in the workplace is better the cry about it i wouldnt be willing to pay more than i can bargain to support someone that wont compete to do it better and cheaper it what drive the economy

legalization to all. | 12:37 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007

legalization to all. justice for all.

hard worker | 12:49 p.m. Sept. 18, 2007

Hey public education employees,
Go to Honeyville, Utah. Ask to see the principle of the school. Ask him why 157 illegal students have 50+ teachers and aides to babysit and tend while their illegal parents tear apart our economy.
If you don't believe me, I challenge you to verify this and go to the U.E.A. and complain.
I bet any teacher in a public school does not have a student to teacher ratio of 3 to 1 !!!

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