Deseret News | Reader comments: Growth not flowing into wages

Reader comments
Growth not flowing into wages

Mark | 7:49 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Not surprising that money flows to the top of the corporate chain instead of to the workers. That's why corporate pirates are alive and well. And that's why the working class continues to struggle for just a basic living, need at least two jobs in the house or have to have both parents working.

Wonk | 7:59 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

It's hard to trust anything from EPI. They're a group funded by labor unions and liberal interests to cloak their calls for higher taxes, expanded welfare programs, and stronger unions in a veil of respectability by calling themselves economists. I've often seen their data manipulated in ways that promote those interests while an objective look would show opposite conclusions. It's a shame the Utah Children group affiliates with them and with groups like the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. These groups are the Left's counterpart to the Cato Institute or the Sutherland Institute (locally speaking) -- you have to take whatever they say with a hefty dose of skepticism (not just a grain of salt!).

Anonymous | 8:18 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Bottom line, The cost of living goes up faster than my paycheck. I don't need a formal study to figure that out.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 8:38 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

"Never trust the 'data' or 'statistics' of a group with an agenda." Both these groups are agendized and have at the very least distorted the data and the facts. The Deseret News would have done a better job of reporting had they also talked to researchers/economists who are not so biased.

Jason | 9:16 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Wonk and Anonymous get real. You can down this groups statistics all you want, but they are right. Companies are not paying a living wage, corporate fat cats are lining their pockets on the backs of the workers, the cost of living has increased in Utah dramatically over the years as well as taxes. Utah is one of the highest tax states in the nation. Stop with all your conservative clap trap and liberal bashing long enough to realize what is going on in this country of ours. It would serve us all better.

for jason... | 9:40 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Well said. Corporate profits are up, disposable income in down. No proselytizing for one agenda or another is going to change that.

Anyone who can't see that has their heads in the sand.

unfortunately, workers having disposable income is what fuels a strong economy, and what made this country strong from 1930 to about 2000.

Utah Wife | 10:05 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

I'm afraid I have to agree with this article (and I'm definitely not a liberal). My husband's wages (computer programmer) haven't gone up in seven years, while the cost of living, such as electricity, gas, food, clothing, property tax, kids in college :^), for us has increased dramatically. The only reason we haven't gone bankrupt is that I have gone back to work. I would rather not work, but in the current wage climate here in Utah, I feel forced into it.

Lorraine | 10:34 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Sorry to burst your bubble, Jason, but the 1930's had something called the "Great Depression." Also, life wasn't so great in the 70's. I don't think you know your American history as well as you should. Maybe it was a typo.

RE:Utah Wife | 10:40 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Agreed. Utah has a huge problem; cost of living, housing, gas, etc...has gone up and in some cases (i.e. real estate) has gone through the roof. Utah wages don't = utah income. Sadly, it never will be equal. Good for companies who come to utah to save a few bucks because they know Utahn's are highly talented hard working people that can literally do anything that a person in NYC could do for 1/2 the price. ROCK AND A HARD PLACE!

RE RE:Utah Wife | 10:41 a.m. Aug. 31, 2007

My bad...correction on previous posting, Utah wages don't = Cost of living.

Al | 12:17 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Jason, If you would earn a real education and get a better job you could improve your life. But, crying because you want more money for your limited skills just does not cut it.

Anonymous | 12:19 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

First of all most americans are not conservitive or liberal, but moderate. The rich push this labeling so americans wont get together and talk about real issues. They own the news, television, and almost all publishing. We almost cant afford to send our chidren to college, any more and if you have young children they might not be able to go, and then their chances of buying a home is gone. Starter homes are now about 250,000. In 16 years they could be twice that. Are wages keeping up?

for AI | 12:30 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

I agree. But where would you get paid better for that education, skills and experience? Not Utah. Colorado, for example, has approximately the same cost of living as Utah (now that home prices have risen here) but pays significantly better. Location is almost as important as skills IMO.

FREE Market | 1:05 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Just curious, but how would all of you people complaining about wages solve the wage growth problem? Put the government in charge of setting wages? YIKES!

There is one problem that needs to be fixed around wages and thatï¿½s taking care of illegal immigration. When businesses can pay less money under the table to an illegal alien, then that depreciates wages for everyone.

Anonymous | 1:23 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

People that sneer at those that do not have college degrees, are part of the problem. If every person in this country had a P.H.D. your salaries would be nothing. Somebody has to build, repair, grow, make things. The new trend in this country is to ever incease the degree needed to do certain jobs, fromm B.S. to Masters, to P.H.D. The degree for a C.P.A. went up from a B.S. to a masters in Utah a few years ago and thats great but the job skills are still a form of accounting. The time spent in college could be spent learning the job by doing it. People in the United States are not growing up knowing how to work because they have no duties to preform. They are all geared up for college and not how to work after.

Depends on what you do | 1:31 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Utah Wife,

Computer industry wages have not increased because in the late 90s there was a huge boom and in the early part of this decade there was a huge bust. And now there is a lot of outsoucing. There are still a lot of computer programmer and other computer professionals doing other things for a living because the industry still has not recovered from the bust and probably never will. I am one who is thankful just to have a job even if I am getting paid the same about I was several years ago.

I don't know about other industries, but I do know that this is one of the causes of the current credit crisis. Inflation without wage growth can't last for long. If it is corporate greed, than those resposible will pay the price. In a recession, eventaully everyone suffers.

Anonymous | 1:32 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Besides the war in Iraq, the economy will probably doom the Republicans (except in Utah where Attila the Hun could rise from his grave and beat the local Democrat by 20 points). The talking heads on these business shows (most of the conservative Republican ilk) keep telling us how the econcomy is expanding and that the market looks good. The problem is that many of us in the so-called middle class have no disposable money to invest in the market. Most homes are now dual income, sometimes one or both of the spouses have two or more jobs. Kids have less contact with their parents and this causes many of our social ills. It isn't the Hollywood liberal elites causing this but the corporations. I saw that even conservative business expert Ben Stein (remember him from Ferris Bueller Day's Off) said it was time to raise the taxes on the very rich from 33% on the high end to 36.5%. He said he could afford it. I would hate to see Hillary get elected but until the Republicans quit with the dillusions that everything is all rosy and quit blaming everything on the War on Terror and 9/11, the Democrats and Hillary will win the White House. The Democrats have seized Congress so it is about time the Republicans wake up and realize that the middle class is shrinking, the quality of life is lessening (do we all remember a time when Mom could stay at home and the family made ends meat?) and people are very concerned about having health care, finding affordable housing and paying for kids college education (all of which is skyrocketing out of control). These are my worries, I've long gave up trying to find money to invest in the stock market.

Russ | 1:37 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

What we presently have is an immense pressure that is unbalancing the supply and demand system in regard to competitive wages in this country. Why compete for labor, when business can rely on yet another foreigner? The millions of workers who are here or even overseas, competing for jobs, who are willing and able to work for wages that will not sustain our own citizens is a problem that many fail, or even refuse to recognize.

Politians to fix the economy? | 2:07 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

You are crazy if you want politicians to intervene and "fix" the broken economy. Listen, this country is not perfect, but we are enjoying the greatest economic prosperity in the history of earth. I think the problem is with people trying to spend beyond their means. We have an epidemic of greed and indulgence that equates happiness with possessions. We need a healthy dose of humility and gratitude, not the democrats in congress to implement some warped form of socialism. Come on people!

+1 to the above comment | 2:32 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

+1 to the above comment

I don' get it | 2:44 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

From all the comments it sounds like everyone wants to blame someone else for the wages they make AND they want the government to somehow FIX IT FOR THEM. Are you telling me that the American Dream is dead and there are no more good ideas left to explore and market? It sounds to me that a bunch of people want to take NO RISK and go to the 9-5 job and somehow feel ENTITLED to more money. I donï¿½t own a business and Iï¿½m not a ï¿½big playerï¿½ in any company. But common sense tells me that business owners typically make more money than the employee (sometimes a lot more). It was the business ownerï¿½s idea, his money, his hard work, and his risk. (then he has to listen to employees complain about not making enough money) As an employee i show up and do my assigned task then go home. If I want to quit I walk away and donï¿½t worry about the money I have invested or the papers that I signed my life away (because there were none) If Utah pays low then move to California I hear they pay good there!

Anonymous | 2:47 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Make all the excuses you want about the group who did the studies. The bottom line is that America is being sold-out to China and other third-world countries for the sake of increased profit and lower wages. The median starting salary for college graduates has not increased much in 20 years. What does that tell you apologists? America is in major decline and I fear for our children's future. Wake up and get active people!

Tom | 3:49 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

I don't see the church leaders doing without.
I don't see the church coffers suffering.
I don't see local, state, or federal governments
lacking for funds.

Jack | 4:47 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Try this experiment. You earn enough to make it from pay day to the next paycheck. You work a full week, You must takes care of car, house and other things. Where do you get the time or money to start a business?

I live in a economy where electricians earned $12 in 1976. Today, they earn the same. Mexicans are doing the work. Once the cashiers had a union. They made $20 after ten years. Today they earn $12. Working CRS in SLC gets you $9?

This is why I believe Jesus had it right. Give money anonymously. If a venture capitalist gives his church $100,000 and a guy earning eight bucks an hours $1000 who is know to be of more value to the church?

Economan | 4:52 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

This is simple economics... basically the increaed production should be attributable to laborers. because the laborer is more productive, he is worth more to a company, thus the company should be more willing to pass along the productivity.. its not democrat or republican.. its capatalism...

Chance | 4:57 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

The data in the report is from the US Census which, I don't think, has an agenda. In fact, I'm surprised the Census Bureau didn't delay the release of the info untill weekend since it had no good news.

recently graduated | 5:42 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

I recently graduated with B.S. in Business Managment from BYU. I had three offers for companies in and out side of the state all within the $45-55 K range. In Utah, that would barely get me into a house. I didn't like any of those offers so I started my own company. I make $80,000/year now and my business is growing big time. Also, I have many more business write-offs that help keep my tax bill down. My point is, if you work for others, they will pay the lowest possible wage for someone with the required skills.

Sue Flay | 6:14 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

The wages of the common worker can't keep pace with inflation because companies need to keep pay low so they can give management big, fat bonuses. They are raking it in, hand over fist. Bonuses and perks are being paid to them in the millions. At 100 major US corporations, CEO bonuses rose 46+% to an average of $1.14 million. If I see an additional $20 increase per paycheck over the course of a year it's a miracle. What I receive in raises is eaten up by taxes, increases in my health insurance, fuel, food and other assorted necessities. When the CEO takes a financial hit he has to go from having a chauffeur driven Mercedes to having to drive himself in a Lexus or Cadillac. We should sink so low.

Anonymous | 6:19 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

My father was a school teacher, which is what I do. He started teaching in the 1960's and died just before retiring in 1997. He had enough disposable income to invest in the stock market and he did pretty good. We had a house on the east side of Salt Lake Valley and I went to Skyline. My mother spent most of our developing years working at home and got a job when we in junior high/high school.

I do the exact same profession. I drive a 1992 Mercury Tracer (I had a nicer car in high school). We tried keeping my wife at home but financially this became impossible. I live in an 1800 square foot home, my parents lived in a 3400 square foot home. My highest income was five years ago and now I finally make what I did then (I'm not talking about adjusting my salary for inflation but I actually made more raw money.)

I sound like I'm whining but what I am getting at is like a previous post about what electricians made then and now. My father, doing the same thing I am doing in the same state, could carve out a decent middle class, even upper middle class life with some good investments. I don't have any disposable income to make any investments and live basically month to month grateful for some perks that many don't get (like having health care).

This isn't the greatest economy ever, let's get real. America probably peeked out 30-40 years ago. We have more gadgets and technology but the quality of life is worse for most families. We need to wake up and re-tool. I do fear for the lives of my children and grandchildren and it isn't just from Islamic fundamentalists.

Spanish Fork | 6:22 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

Like the poor, corporate(and employer) greed has always been with us. Complaining about either does little good. To understand wages, remember the laws of supply and demand, and that all of us try to pay the lowest price possible for what we wish to buy. Employers, will also pay as little as possible, down to zero, if possible for labor. Those in power always attempt to distort the laws of supply and demand to their own advantage through political or economic influence. Powerful economic and political forces from both political parties are presently distorting supply and demand for labor by importing millions of legal and illegal workers in order to depress wages. The Reagan Administration taught us about trickle down economics. The enormous number of imported workers, both professional and unskilled, causes the lack of wage increase. Even our own Gov. Huntsman helped several school districts bring in to Utah teachers from Mexico in order to prevent districts from being forced to pay higher wages and competing with other states and professions. I suggest that you read Ferdinand La Salle's "Iron Law of Wages," which in our global economy, may begin to be applicable.

Steve | 11:28 p.m. Aug. 31, 2007

It strikes me odd that no one addresses the issue of standard of living in all this banter. My parents were able to support a family of six on one income, my fathers, but there were also four boys in one bedroom. Two sets of bunkbeds crammed into a small box of a bedroom. One bathroom for all of us to use. My parents drove old cars, never making payments on them. We had one tv, no VCR or DVD player. Maybe the wage isn't the problem, perhaps it is these new artificial standards that we have set up for ourselves, driving new overpriced cars, living in homes we can't afford just so each kid can have their own bedroom. Is that why so many mothers "have" to work, because we are living a pampered life of self indulgence?

Jenny | 12:52 a.m. Sept. 1, 2007

The next 10-15 years should be very interesting. I doubt that the wage situation will get better any time soon. And it has absoltuely nothing to do with conservatives or liberals.

The problem is that there are two massive rising super powers which are home to 1/3 of the population of the planet. There are many highly skilled people there who are willing to work for very little money. The cost of living (for a middle class family) is much lower there than the U.S. Also, if we outsourced every job in the United States to India or China, there would still be a surplus of skilled workers.

Interplay | 9:43 a.m. Sept. 4, 2007

The Voices for Utah Children report is biased and the article smacks of ignorance of the core issues. The statistics are selective and nearly meaningless. The median wage does not, and indeed cannot measure what the group reports. It is a simple, naively interpreted version of the data. I expect better from a group that purports to provide objective policy analysis.

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