Comments about ‘Utahns top U.S. on SAT, AP tests’

While I appreciate both the Salt Lake Tribune and the Deseret News to point out that fact that more students take the ACT than SAT in Utah, the fact that Utahns top U.S. on SAT tests really is a misleading statement. Since mostly only Utah's brightest and more advanced students usually take the SAT, it only stands to reason that Utah would score higher than national test results because more students from other states of average caliber are taking the same test while on average, more Utah students are taking the ACT instead. This apples and oranges comparison really is a disservice to the public creating more confusion and illusion than factual information that the public can make informative decisions about the state of public education.

I completely agree with Tab's comment - VERY MISLEADING ARTICLE, come on Deseret News, you can do much better than this. Comparing Utah's elite against others' general masses is very misleading.

Amazingly misleading headline. "Utahs top US" sounds like Utah is best in nation, not merely edging above the average. Who wrote and edited this?

Even the title of this article is misleading--the article cites no instance in which Utah "tops" the U.S. in SAT or AP test scores. The article simply cites statistics showing that Utah is better than the national average While, in sompe instances, Utah appears to be substantially better than the national average, there's likely a significant difference between "better than average" and "tops."

Excellent point!

As a Davis alum in TX, go DARTS!

You'd think with as well as students do on standardized tests in Utah, other states would want to copy the way we do things. Maybe teachers in other states are OVERpaid.

This must be why so many Utahns are against Vouchers. Why would we want to subsidize private schools when our public schools are doing so well in the first place?

Re: Tab and others. Did you read the article? They have a quote saying exactly what you said about the SATs. Read the whole article and it really isn't misleading... it credit the high SAT marks with puting our best foot forward on that test.

I agree about the headline. It would have been better to simply state "Utah beats National Averages" or something to that effect. Especially when the article had a more negative tone (in my opinion) than a celabratory tone. It pointed out many flaws in the stats and problems with the Utah system.

Also a Davis Alum, we've been doing this for at least 10 years! If I rember correctly over 100 students take AP calculus with a nearly 100% pass rate. Having experienced a wide variety of higher level academia (ivy league, etc.) I'd put a Davis High School Education over any other in the nation, with some schools spending 10x the money. (Where Utah attempts to equalize per pupil spending across the entire state, other states let rich areas super fund rich schools, where poor schools scrape by)

Has anyone tried to do a per-capita look at this? It seems like many of the top schools are some of the biggest 5A schools in the state. I'd be interested what's happening at smaller schools, some of which have fewer students than the 700+ Davis has in its AP program. It's great what they're accomplishing, but sheer size warps the stats a little.

When I was at Layton High School in the early 2000's, I passed 1 of 3 AP tests, I still got a scholarship at BYU, and my first year out of BYU's undergraduate program I am making $79,000/year. None of my Davis High friends are doing that well even though they did better on their AP tests. In fact, they all work for Convergys in Roy or sell cars or insurance, making roughly $35,000/year and none of them are married. These guys were team captains and student body officers at davis high.
Oh yea, and I also married the head cheerleader at davis high!

I think LancerChad is somewhat arrogant.

Maybe LancerChad's comment would be easier to swallow if he would have made the connection that high AP scores don't always translate into high salary out of college. I think he puts a lot of emphasis on the davis vs layton thing which will alienate some readers.

spl has a good point. I teach an AP class and one AP stat that should be reported is the percentage of students who took an AP test from each school. I've seen this stat (but don't have it at my finger tips) and Davis, Logan and the others still do very well; but there are some smaller schools that do a very good job with AP as well and they should be recognized by the media.

We should do everything we can to encourage the AP program in our public and private schools. It helps teachers maintain a high level of academic rigor in the curriculum. It places accountability on the teacher, student and parents. It doesn't cost the state a great deal. It gives those who pass these very tough tests college credit. Any student who pushes themselves to take an AP class grows enormously. We should use successful AP programs as a major sign of how good our educational systems are working.

I agree with lancer chad, Layton is better than davis

Even if it is arrogant, what's wrong with having a bit of it? Yes, I admit that some good things have happened to me. I believe that high AP scores don't lead directly to happiness or $$$? Hard work has lead to happiness and $$$ for me. Is this arrogance? I will never shy away from being an ambitious, driven, and a motivated person. I call it good confidence, high self-esteem, and a stong self image.

I think we are all missing the proverbial boat here, who wants to be called a dart?? thats the real question. Just a horrible name for a school.

It's amazing that no matter how educated we think we are as a people, we fail to see the huge flaws in today's educational system. Think about this for a minute: We sit and take notes in a classroom for 6 hours per day while a teacher lectures on a topic. Then we read text books, review notes, and memorize facts/dates just so we can score well on a multiple choice exam when the books are closed. Then, after a short time we forget everything we studied. But at least we got a 4 on the AP test. Education these days is always about listening and writing, never doing. It takes 16 years in this type of schooling before you finally get to "do" anything productive for society. Last time I checked, accountants can use books when they do someone's taxes. Attorneys, doctors, teachers, and bankers can all use books in their professions. Nothing is closed to them.

If I were making the educational decisions for our state in grades K-12, I'd focus on three things: Technical/analytical/musical skills development, physical/creative activity, and one other thing that I forgot becuase I'm in a hurry.

I'm a former Utahn, who took (and passed - thank you very much) seven AP exams back in the early 1990s. I went on to dual B.S degrees, and then a top law school.

And to this day I maintain the most challenging academic experience I've had was the two years of the AP programs. (The first year of law school comes in a close second).

I could take or leave the college credit it brings. Take the classes because it teaches you skills that make you a better student and a more desciplined person. I think this is especially so when you tackle multiple tests at the same time. Get your kids into as many of these classes as you can. Let them experience what they can do when they push themselves.

Many, many thanks to all the AP teachers in Utah.